Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[N3ON]

Bad pun aside, the fact that Star Fox Zero kept getting pushed back is probably why Wolf didn't show up(if it did get released on time, he'd probably be among DLC or the original regular cast). This is no longer an issue this time around. He's far more likely now that the only thing keeping him away is gone.

Likewise, Sakurai did say he had a very specific set of reasons for what vets he chose. He can do similar things again, one Melee, one Brawl vet, if he wanted to(or Bamco can set it up that way. We know little about the development or even who is in charge of Smash Switch outside of a rumor), that is.

This is also a different situation from Smash 4. Two of the most popular cut vets are being called out for being gone. Despite the logical reasons for both not being there this time, that doesn't matter to many fans. However, neither reason really is relevant anymore. It's a game that is going to be released quite a long time from now. There's no 3DS version. The key reason for IC's being gone is irrelevant. Wolf's latest game entry is out. He's still being called out as a horrid cut. They know people heavily want him back(some of it due to being a fairly unique character, others cause he was popular in general, and some cause they're Star Fox fans. Many reasons overall, and probably others I didn't think of).

If not clear, I think both are very likely to come back due to what I said, but that's assuming it's an enhanced port. If it's an all new game, this stuff doesn't matter either.

I'm not saying your points are without reason or logic, nor am I saying Wolf isn't going to happen, just that at this juncture it's clear that there's often a fair bit of dissonance between logical argumentation and actual outcome. People amend the history of Smash speculation to make it seem like things that didn't happen weren't argued for perfectly logically. We've already seen this with Wolf as DLC. There were good reasons to expect him, and good arguments for why he'd show up, but he didn't. Might that happen again? Yeah, it's totally possible.

All I'm saying is that if I've learned anything, it's to not be so definitive about roster predictions. It seems irreflective to think otherwise. Even with ostensibly sound logic. Wolf might happen, he might not. I don't know, you don't know, and I'm content waiting until I find out. That's why I'm open to idea of Elma, who in the past I'd have argued against, because I don't think she's going to happen, but there's a chance, sure. So now I'm just going to wait and see. But to me tweaking arguments that already didn't pan out just seems cyclical and futile. His situation, to me, has not changed nearly as much as ICs or Inklings.

I'm not saying your points are without sense, I'm just explaining why I believe what I believe, and why points with sense aren't really going to change my opinion much on this kinda thing.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm not saying your points are without reason or logic, nor am I saying Wolf isn't going to happen, just that at this juncture it's clear that there's often a fair bit of dissonance between logical argumentation and actual outcome. People amend the history of Smash speculation to make it seem like things that didn't happen weren't argued for perfectly logically. We've already seen this with Wolf as DLC. There were good reasons to expect him, and good arguments for why he'd show up, but he didn't. Might that happen again? Yeah, it's totally possible.

All I'm saying is that if I've learned anything, it's to not be so definitive about roster predictions. It seems irreflective to think otherwise. Even with ostensibly sound logic. Wolf might happen, he might not. I don't know, you don't know, and I'm content waiting until I find out. That's why I'm open to idea of Elma, who in the past I'd have argued against, because I don't think she's going to happen, but there's a chance, sure. So now I'm just going to wait and see. But to me tweaking arguments that already didn't pan out just seems cyclical and futile. His situation, to me, has not changed nearly as much as ICs or Inklings.

I'm not saying your points are without sense, I'm just explaining why I believe what I believe, and why points with sense aren't really going to change my opinion much on this kinda thing.

This should apply equally to Ice Climbers as well. While they couldn't be gotten working, time was also a part of the issue. They ran out of time to use on them alone(which makes sense, since they can't use all the time on one character, after all).

I also don't think Elma is nearly as likely as people think either. I don't feel Xenoblade is on the same path as the big guns just yet. It could be another Xenoblade character, or not. A key note about Shulk's inclusion was that he had some unique ability to show off, which was a lot of trouble to get working. Of course, she's always possible. Be silly to act like she isn't.

K. Rool I could see due to the Smash poll alone, but we don't know if it'll even influence Smash Switch(if it's a port). An all new game, most likely, though. Just like I could see Shovel Knight at one point, but I don't think his hype is as big as it was(and it took a long time to come out in Japan, so I'd say his best chance was missed).

I feel honestly that IC's and Wolf have pretty much equal chances at this point. As noted, there are the two most feasible vets left right now. But we may see nothing but new characters(I'm not entirely betting on Inklings being in, since it's still a matter of making them an interesting character with their mechanic more than anything else. They're an easy choice, respectively. But that doesn't make them easy to implement. We know they try to capture the feel of the game the characters are from(or games in many cases) for the main character.

For all we know, all the characters could entirely be new and 1st/2nd party only(I do think if we get new characters, a 3rd party is likely. At this point, a Rabbid or Rayman seems like a notable choice).

As for people saying Pokemon, I dunno. We only got Greninja through a bit of luck. The fact he became popular is a happy coincidence. Sakurai himself looks for the most popular at the time. Unless it was a last minute addition, or they actually didn't start on Smash Switch till the start of this year, a Gen VII Pokemon doesn't seem as likely as it could be. It's about timing and all. It could happen. On the other hand, if Sakurai isn't heavily choosing characters and Bamco is? It could change a lot. I do think if it's Sakurai, Inklings, Wolf, and IC's are major notable choices(due to popularity power), but with Bamco, it could be different. They may use characters from unused franchises. That could still mean Inklings of course(but as I said, we don't know if they can implement them in a way that works well in the Smash universe while retaining good balance and still has the feel of the overall games).

I do agree that people thinking a specific character is obvious is not looking hard enough at all points. I don't feel, beyond most of the original 12(although if it's a port, then I expect them all there) and very specific vets, that anyone truly is obvious. Mind you, it doesn't mean many aren't wrong and should've expected them. I.E. Miis and Palutena. They were very obvious additions at this point. Pac-Man too as soon as we learned Bandai-Namco was involved. Of course, remember what happened with Chrom? Exactly. I feel Wolf was treated too much like Chrom for DLC. Wolf may not be there at all(or IC's, or Inklings).

Should go without saying that I don't have an issue with characters like Elma getting in, nor Inkling. Excellent additions overall, imo. I have other wants, of course, but that's irrelevant to my key point. I was happy with the final roster because it was amazing. I lost my main, yes, but I never knew I wanted to play as Bayonetta. Hell, I didn't think she had a good chance due to her settings. It wasn't as simple to tone down like with Snake, after all, but they did it. And did it well.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

key note about Shulk's inclusion was that he had some unique ability to show off,

Which was almost entirely made up for him.

I think its more of wanting to show off Xenoblade and include its content.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Which was almost entirely made up for him.

I think it's more of wanting to show off Xenoblade and include its content.

I thought it was heavily based upon abilities in his game, just done in a different way? Kind of like with the Mother characters.

But the point was he was going heavily for unique mechanics. I'm not sure it'll be as easy for some characters to get in if this style of "add unique mechanics" is continued.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I thought it was heavily based upon abilities in his game, just done in a different way? Kind of like with the Mother characters.

He does have some stat buffing powers (Monado Shield and Speed) but they do completely different things.

Monado Smash and Jump are completely made up.

Monado Buster was actually an attack.

In Xenoblade, Shulk wasn't the stat guy, he was actually the jack of all traits, master of attacking.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

He does have some stat buffing powers (Monado Shield and Speed) but they do completely different things.

Monado Smash and Jump are completely made up.

Monado Buster was actually an attack.

In Xenoblade, Shulk wasn't the stat guy, he was actually the jack of all traits, master of attacking.

So kind of like the Mother characters. XD

But that makes sense. Sakurai makes up moves to fit the game well. I mean, Smash and Jump-type actions are common stuff in this series by design, so... makes sense to get boosts to it.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So kind of like the Mother characters. XD

It's a much bigger departure than the Mother series attacks.

They actually have some similarities to their source material.

But that makes sense. Sakurai makes up moves to fit the game well. I mean, Smash and Jump-type actions are common stuff in this series by design, so... makes sense to get boosts to it.

Gameplay wise it does, but we could have had a lot of characters who did that in their own games.

Shulk isn't exactly my first choice for a stat character.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's a much bigger departure than the Mother series attacks.

They actually have some similarities to their source material.

Well, that's what "kind of" does imply. They have similarities to each other(as in the concepts of modifying but showing off that the game's mechanics exist). It doesn't feel accurate to Mother much because they don't really use PSI that way(there's no actual animations, just flashes of light/sound effects), nor does Ness or Lucas have those PSI. However, they make perfect sense in Smash gameplay. That was the point of how Sakurai works on some things, modifying it to fit. Not that he's perfect at making the characterization feel too accurate either(hi, Lucina).

Gameplay wise it does, but we could have had a lot of characters who did that in their own games.

Shulk isn't exactly my first choice for a stat character.

Probably was what Sakurai thought as one of the most important mechanics. *shrugs* Departure aside, though, Shulk is the main character, and that was the most interesting mechanic he could think of. I've never played Xenoblade, so I don't know what other mechanic he could've had(while showing off some notable about the main series, not necessarily accurately so much as the concept).

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Well, that's what "kind of" does imply. They have similarities to each other(as in the concepts of modifying but showing off that the game's mechanics exist). It doesn't feel accurate to Mother much because they don't really use PSI that way(there's no actual animations, just flashes of light/sound effects), nor does Ness or Lucas have those PSI. However, they make perfect sense in Smash gameplay. That was the point of how Sakurai works on some things, modifying it to fit. Not that he's perfect at making the characterization feel too accurate either(hi, Lucina).

The attacks are similar to the attack descriptions.

Probably was what Sakurai thought as one of the most important mechanics. *shrugs* Departure aside, though, Shulk is the main character, and that was the most interesting mechanic he could think of. I've never played Xenoblade, so I don't know what other mechanic he could've had(while showing off some notable about the main series, not necessarily accurately so much as the concept).

Shulk could have had two gimmicks.

He could have had a playstyle entirely about positioning and attack opponents from a certain side since that is a large mechanic from Xenoblade.

He could have also activated the Monado mid match for a range buff.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The attacks are similar to the attack descriptions.

Fair point.

Shulk could have had two gimmicks.

He could have had a playstyle entirely about positioning and attack opponents from a certain side since that is a large mechanic from Xenoblade.

He could have also activated the Monado mid match for a range buff.

That sounds like something that doesn't work well in Smash. Smash doesn't have sides like traditional fighters(and Wrestling games) do. This is due to the ability to turn around and having no "back and front" moves. Although I may be misreading what you mean, but it sounds fairly complicated in this case. You probably need to show me a picture or video before I can fully understand this one, unless I got it right the first time.

Also, Sakurai seemed keen on one gameplay mechanic per character(clones/semi-clones aside) this time. Can't blame him. If you use multiple per one character, that doesn't leave options for other characters. It keeps it just simple enough to provide developer choices.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I don't see why they would add Decidueye unless it was promotion-based

I thought that was the point. Why on earth would they not do that?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

That sounds like something that doesn't work well in Smash. Smash doesn't have sides like traditional fighters(and Wrestling games) do. This is due to the ability to turn around and having no "back and front" moves. Although I may be misreading what you mean, but it sounds fairly complicated in this case. You probably need to show me a picture or video before I can fully understand this one, unless I got it right the first time.

Well for example.

Shulk's backslash does more damage if it hits the back, just like the original game.

Shulk could be the only character to have an attack while rolling to hit them at. Their side, since there is a move that does more damage when there.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Well for example.

Shulk's backslash does more damage if it hits the back, just like the original game.

Shulk could be the only character to have an attack while rolling to hit them at. Their side, since there is a move that does more damage when there.

I guess Sakurai and/or Bandai-Namco didn't think it'd work as well? I dunno. That makes a lot more sense than what I thought it was. If a ton of moves do that, it's harder to program in with a time limit on making the game. If I remember right, wasn't Shulk already hard to make? My guess is programming two unique damage sets based upon the opponent's position can be a lot more work than normal, one they don't feel is necessary to make the character fun. That'd be neat to implement, though. Maybe in Smash Switch or a future game?

 

[Starlight_Lily]

You know what I'd like to see in a possible Switch port, the return of all vets, and I'd like to see Pokemon Trainer return, with Charizard, Ivysaur and Squirtle by his side.

Now I know some of you will say, but Charizard should be by himself, but let me explain, how I would like the Pokemon Trainer to return.

Its actually very simple, instead of Down B switching out the Pokemon, instead the D-pad would do it, and no taunts would not be lost on the Pokemon Trainer, because you still have one button left to use for taunts.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Its actually very simple, instead of Down B switching out the Pokemon, instead the D-pad would do it, and no taunts would not be lost on the Pokemon Trainer, because you still have one button left to use for taunts.

I don't want to give up two taunts or have stamina return.

I'd rather just have Squirtle and Ivysaur come back on their own with the Pokemon Trainer as a cameo.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

If Greninja does manage to come back, it would be interesting if it changes into Ash-Greninja for its Final Smash. Ash-Greninja's attacks would deal 1.5x more damage than normal and have increased knockback, and it would also be impervious to flinching. However, it would still take damage from attacks, and the transformation would only last around 15-20 seconds.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If Greninja does manage to come back, it would be interesting if it changes into Ash-Greninja for its Final Smash. Ash-Greninja's attacks would deal 1.5x more damage than normal and have increased knockback, and it would also be impervious to flinching. However, it would still take damage from attacks, and the transformation would only last around 15-20 seconds.

Well, it's clearly going to come back if it's a port/enhanced port. It's one of the most popular Pokemon but also an active one. Even is an event Pokemon exclusive to the demo and treated as its own unique ability, actually separate from a Mega(but obviously has similarities, namely being a transformation and all with majorly increased stats).

Obviously Ash-Greninja was created well after Sakurai finished Greninja or he wasn't allowed to use it for whatever reason. I mean, he doesn't own the character after all. In addition, he has no issues with mentioning the anime, as Pokemon Trainer's trophy directly compares him to Ash(why on earth the Gen 1 Pokemon Trainer Trophy doesn't mention Red at all is strange, but eh. I do remember a secondary Pokemon Trainer trophy, but I forget if it has the X/Y protagonists or the B/W ones. Specific thing is that he just treats them as classes). I am aware he pays attention to the anime quite often, but I do think it's silly he doesn't really do much to mention the actual in-game trainers at all. But then again, Smash 4 is the first game to bother mentioning Impa's existence(via her own trophies, but still).

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It's still a thought, even though the only way to get Battle Bond Greninja is through a demo. In a similar manner, in Punch-Out!!, Giga Mac only appears in the game's Head to Head mode, and yet he managed to appear as Little Mac's Final Smash.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

What are your thoughts on having some Pokemon having Z-Moves for a Final Smash?

There are at least three suitable options for Pikachu for example (Gigavolt Havok, Catastropika, and 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt).

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Are we allowed to share pictures of rosters?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Are we allowed to share pictures of rosters?

https://smashboards.com/threads/early-smash-5-fan-made-rosters.435513/ Use this thread for it for now, please. It's easier to keep regular non-roster discussion here(namely for stuff beyond rosters).

Important edit: Do please explain your choices as well. Swamp brought up a good point.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Are we allowed to share pictures of rosters?

Yeah, you just can't only post a picture, so explain some choices.

EDIT: Nevermind

 

[TheLastJinjo]

https://smashboards.com/threads/early-smash-5-fan-made-rosters.435513/ Use this thread for it for now, please. It's easier to keep regular non-roster discussion here(namely for stuff beyond rosters).

Important edit: Do please explain your choices as well. Swamp brought up a good point.

It's okay. If you don't want me to post pictures here, it's no biggie. I already shared my expectations. I just think I make really good rosters aesthetically.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's okay. If you don't want me to post pictures here, it's no biggie. I already shared my expectations. I just think I make really good rosters aesthetically.

You shouldn't only post a picture anyway(picture posts without context or words in general is considered spam here). That topic is all about your own personal rosters, but we expect you to explain it a bit. It doesn't have to be super elaborate, but we like to understand your choices.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

You shouldn't only post a picture anyway(picture posts without context or words in general is considered spam here). That topic is all about your own personal rosters, but we expect you to explain it a bit. It doesn't have to be super elaborate, but we like to understand your choices.

Well, I was planning on posting it with an explanation.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Well, I was planning on posting it with an explanation.

Excellent. Please take it to the other thread to discuss it there, then.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

List of improvements/additions I'd like to see in Super Smash Bros Switch. (Mostly wishful)

• Custom moves for all characters
• More trophies and music from the Final Fantasy series. Also Bravely Default Battle Theme for Midgar
• American voice actor for Cloud
• More music from Sonic games like Sonic 3, Sonic 4, Sonic CD, and Sonic Rush
• Casino Night Stage
• Dr. Mario Stage
• Assist Trophies for DLC Characters (M. Bison, Black Mage, Jeanne)
• Melee style Adventure Mode with branching paths
• Orange and White Yoshi
• Magicant Stage with Mother 1 & 3
• Ms. Pac-Man Skin
• Dry Bowser Skin
• Impa Skin (Sheik)
• Alph with voice clips and S.S. Drake
• Less Random Classic Mode

 

[dezeray112]

What are your thoughts on having some Pokemon having Z-Moves for a Final Smash?

There are at least three suitable options for Pikachu for example (Gigavolt Havok, Catastropika, and 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt).

I think giving them Z-Moves as a Final Smash would be an interesting concept.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The one thing that should probably be improved is the amount of color slots that the characters with alternate outfits or genders have; Wario, Olimar / Alph, Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Robin, Cloud, Corrin, Bayonetta. It's disturbing that only four players can use the WarioWare Wario outfit, while the other half is forced to use the Classic Wario outfit. Likewise, only four players can use male Robin, while the other four can only use female Robin.

Similarly, Bowser Jr. should've had his own set of palette swaps, while the Koopalings can cover the extra slots. In other words, slots 1-8 would be for Bowser Jr., while slots 9-15 would be for the Koopalings.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

The one thing that should probably be improved is the amount of color slots that the characters with alternate outfits or genders have; Wario, Olimar / Alph, Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Robin, Cloud, Corrin, Bayonetta. It's disturbing that only four players can use the WarioWare Wario outfit, while the other half is forced to use the Classic Wario outfit. Likewise, only four players can use male Robin, while the other four can only use female Robin.

Similarly, Bowser Jr. should've had his own set of palette swaps, while the Koopalings can cover the extra slots. In other words, slots 1-8 would be for Bowser Jr., while slots 9-15 would be for the Koopalings.

The lack of White Yoshi was dissappointing.

 

[Baskerville]

I was hoping for a colour edit mode like Tekken Tag 2. That alone would fix the many lame and samey coluor swaps in Smash 4.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The one thing that should probably be improved is the amount of color slots that the characters with alternate outfits or genders have; Wario, Olimar / Alph, Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Robin, Cloud, Corrin, Bayonetta. It's disturbing that only four players can use the WarioWare Wario outfit, while the other half is forced to use the Classic Wario outfit. Likewise, only four players can use male Robin, while the other four can only use female Robin.

Similarly, Bowser Jr. should've had his own set of palette swaps, while the Koopalings can cover the extra slots. In other words, slots 1-8 would be for Bowser Jr., while slots 9-15 would be for the Koopalings.

The fact we don't have Cloud in a dress is a crime in itself.

The question is, would this only apply for a few characters, or everyone? I agree that all alts should have a bit more. Also, I think for Olimar/Alph, I'd rather have 4 more costumes of each Captain, so a total of 4 Captains. I get the rest, besides Bayonetta. She has more easy references for 8 more costumes? I never played the game, so...

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I was hoping for a colour edit mode like Tekken Tag 2. That alone would fix the many lame and samey coluor swaps in Smash 4.

I believe that is due to certain copyright issues that certain characters have.

Basically and have to be yellowish in some way due to their sheer iconicness forcing their companies to protect that element of their design.

I think had something similar.

 

[N3ON]

Having more colours would be nice but it's never really been much of a bother to me. Even the characters with pretty limited palettes.

Charizard not having a shiny alt continues to be egregious, however.

 

[Sharkarat]

At least let Bowser Jr. actually have alt colors, there's even mini bowsers from mario party to use as inspiration.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The fact we don't have Cloud in a dress is a crime in itself.

That isn't exactly what I meant. What if you want to do an 8-player Smash match that consists of 8 Advent Children outfit Clouds? That's impossible to do without hacking your game.

The question is, would this only apply for a few characters, or everyone? I agree that all alts should have a bit more. Also, I think for Olimar/Alph, I'd rather have 4 more costumes of each Captain, so a total of 4 Captains. I get the rest, besides Bayonetta. She has more easy references for 8 more costumes? I never played the game, so...

This would mostly apply to the fighters who have alternate outfits or genders. As such, fighters like Mario would probably still be limited to 8 color slots.

Basically, the trend should've been the following...

• 8 WarioWare Wario palettes
• 8 Classic Wario palettes
• 8 Olimar palettes
• 8 Alph palettes
• 8 male Villager palettes
• 8 female Villager palettes
• 8 female Wii Fit Trainer palettes
• 8 male Wii Fit Trainer palettes
• 8 male Robin palettes
• 8 female Robin palettes
• 8 standard Cloud palettes
• 8 Advent Children Cloud palettes
• 8 male Corrin palettes
• 8 female Corrin palettes
• 8 Bayonetta 2 outfit Bayonetta palettes
• 8 original Bayonetta palettes

And for Bowser Jr., 8 Bowser Jr. palettes, and then the Koopalings would cover an additional 7 color slots; this would give Bowser Jr. up to 15 color slots. However, players won't be able to have multiple Larrys, Mortons, Wendys, Iggys, Roys, Lemmys, or Ludwigs fighting.

On a side note, Dry Bowser could always operate as Bowser's extra color slots, much like with Little Mac's wire frame variants. Color slots 1-8 would be for the standard Bowser, while 9-16 are for Dry Bowser. However, the only problem with this idea is knowing that Giga Bowser doesn't have an undead variant, much like with how Giga Mac lacks a wire frame variant of himself.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That isn't exactly what I meant. What if you want to do an 8-player Smash match that consists of 8 Advent Children outfit Clouds? That's impossible to do without hacking your game.



This would mostly apply to the fighters who have alternate outfits or genders. As such, fighters like Mario would probably still be limited to 8 color slots.

Basically, the trend should've been the following...

• 8 WarioWare Wario palettes
• 8 Classic Wario palettes
• 8 Olimar palettes
• 8 Alph palettes
• 8 male Villager palettes
• 8 female Villager palettes
• 8 female Wii Fit Trainer palettes
• 8 male Wii Fit Trainer palettes
• 8 male Robin palettes
• 8 female Robin palettes
• 8 standard Cloud palettes
• 8 Advent Children Cloud palettes
• 8 male Corrin palettes
• 8 female Corrin palettes
• 8 Bayonetta 2 outfit Bayonetta outfits
• 8 original Bayonetta outfits

And for Bowser Jr., 8 Bowser Jr. palettes, and then the Koopalings would cover an additional 7 color slots; this would give Bowser Jr. up to 15 color slots. However, players won't be able to have multiple Larrys, Mortons, Wendys, Iggys, Roys, Lemmys, or Ludwigs fighting.

On a side note, Dry Bowser could always operate as Bowser's extra color slots, much like with Little Mac's wire frame variants. Color slots 1-8 would be for the standard Bowser, while 9-16 are for Dry Bowser. However, the only problem with this idea is knowing that Giga Bowser doesn't have an undead variant, much like with how Giga Mac lacks a wire frame variant of himself.

It seems silly to have 15 palettes for Bowser Jr. Why not add a Baby Bowser/Koopa Kid(the latter is from Mario Party) as a unique design or maybe a Mecha Koopa alt? Essentially the Mecha Koopas are pretty much just robotic Baby Bowsers in design, if you will.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It seems silly to have 15 palettes for Bowser Jr. Why not add a Baby Bowser/Koopa Kid(the latter is from Mario Party) as a unique design or maybe a Mecha Koopa alt? Essentially the Mecha Koopas are pretty much just robotic Baby Bowsers in design, if you will.

I guess because there isn't an 8th Koopaling, Bowser Jr. ends up lacking a 16th color slot. Generic enemies are out of the question, and Koopa Kid is pretty much dead (along with being a Mario Party exclusive character). And let's not forget that Baby Bowser now looks a lot like Bowser Jr., but he does lack the bandanna.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I guess because there isn't an 8th Koopaling, Bowser Jr. ends up lacking a 16th color slot. Generic enemies are out of the question, and Koopa Kid is pretty much dead (along with being a Mario Party exclusive character). And let's not forget that Baby Bowser now looks a lot like Bowser Jr., but he does lack the bandanna.

Sounds like Baby Bowser, which is Bowser Jr. without the bandanna, essentially, is perfect.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Sounds like Baby Bowser, which is Bowser Jr. without the bandanna, essentially, is perfect.

The problem is, that's the only real difference between the two. Koopa Kid actually has a different body shape than Bowser Jr..