Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[LancerStaff]

Really? I'm guessing none...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Honestly, I can't see it being a straight port at all. Especially since they already proved they aren't doing that with various other games showed off. It's extremely likely to get new content, and the two key cut characters(Wolf and Ice Climbers) are likely coming back. Inkling is pretty likely to get a showing as well. I think maybe about 4-6 characters looks realistic at this point. They've had a ton of time.

I also don't think anyone is getting cut from regular Smash 4(including DLC characters), since they likely got permission for all 3 versions. Plus, Sakurai does not like doing straight ports, and Bandai-Namco rarely does them either(outside of Pac-Man games only). I'm heavily prepared for new content since it makes the most logical sense. It's not going to sell well otherwise when it has no tangible differences from the Wii U version, the least popular version to begin with. Also, since the controller has no touchscreen, they have to change up stuff anyway. Smash Run is unplayable on it, and the Stage Builder is based upon a touchscreen. Since they already have to change how the game plays just to keep one mode intact, doing a half-assed job of content changes is beyond unlikely. It isn't worth it to them. We also know that Bandai-Namco is developing it(according to the rumor), not Sakurai, so there's absolutely no reason to have the same roster anyway. Plus, being it cannot be a legitimate straight port of either version, it's going to be its own unique version in some way. More characters is pretty inevitable at this point since that's the biggest way to sell the game now. Being our strongest source is saying it's not a launch title anymore, that clearly means they're changing the game up. Might as well just accept new content is coming anyway. Not like there's a problem with that. I just hope they improve the Stage Builder, namely, give it more parts. Brawl's was ultimately better due to having vastly more variety, even if both games felt like they were lacking(just combine both game's parts...).

Also, the only port/same game is the Zelda one, but they also omitted the touchscreen controls from the Wii U version since the Switch version cannot use a touchscreen. It was also advertised they'd be the same game. There's a reason all the Switch games previewed(besides Zelda) were clearly updated games that were either sequels or enhanced ports(if they were a Nintendo game). Nobody's going to really but the Switch if it has no new games at this point, and just lame ports. It isn't worth the money. Enough own a Wii U that they won't want to get the same game twice(this is also why the 3DS and Wii U have tons of differences besides how the characters play. Incentive).

 

[William5000000]

I expect the problems that "Smash 4" currently has to be fixed in the next "Smash" game for the Nintendo Switch.

- FIX THE DARN TOP KO RANDOMNESS PLEASE (and no random tripping from "Brawl" please)! Seriously, the randomness on those top KOs (even if they're not truly random) is very bad for the metagame, especially in last stock situations. Make the Star KOs/Screen KOs occur for on-stage moves and upward Blast KOs occur for off-stage moves, even on Training Mode. That way, there would be no unfair wins or losses, as well as unfair punishes, and the matches would go much more smoother, even if it isn't 100% perfect.
- Fix the random untechable spin animation (100% damage or more)! Same reason as said above!
- Add voice clips for certain characters (such as Villager, Mega Man and Pac-Man) when they get Star KO'd. For Villager, add a sound effect for when he/she gets hit by an item from "Mario Kart 8". For Mega Man, add the voice clip when he dies from "Mega Man 8". For Pac-Man, add the dying sound effect from a very old arcade "Pac-Man" game.
- The Rage mechanic should only be in play from 100% damage up to 150% damage (VERY UNLIKELY), and it should be a factor on Training Mode.
- Crowd cheers quality should be improved, and the crowd should chant 8 times when the character is at 100% damage or more.

For every other problem (especially online, as people are just rude and rage quitting, and the random opponent picking), fix them please!

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If this game is going to intentionally have more characters on the roster, add Dixie Kong and Pichu. Dixie Kong is just as agile (but slower) as Diddy Kong. Pichu hasn't been seen in any "Smash" game since "Melee". Roy, Mewtwo, and Dr. Mario were brought back from "Melee", so why not Pichu too? And if possible, maybe Snake (though he is dead now, due to accelerated aging), Wolf, and Ice Climbers can be brought back from "Brawl" too, along with Ivysaur and Squirtle (without Pokémon Trainer). Obviously, Young Link from "Melee" won't be brought back because he was replaced by Toon Link from "Brawl".

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Add more features from the previous "Smash" games.

 

[LancerStaff]

Honestly, I can't see it being a straight port at all. Especially since they already proved they aren't doing that with various other games showed off. It's extremely likely to get new content, and the two key cut characters(Wolf and Ice Climbers) are likely coming back. Inkling is pretty likely to get a showing as well. I think maybe about 4-6 characters looks realistic at this point. They've had a ton of time.

I also don't think anyone is getting cut from regular Smash 4(including DLC characters), since they likely got permission for all 3 versions. Plus, Sakurai does not like doing straight ports, and Bandai-Namco rarely does them either(outside of Pac-Man games only). I'm heavily prepared for new content since it makes the most logical sense. It's not going to sell well otherwise when it has no tangible differences from the Wii U version, the least popular version to begin with. Also, since the controller has no touchscreen, they have to change up stuff anyway. Smash Run is unplayable on it, and the Stage Builder is based upon a touchscreen. Since they already have to change how the game plays just to keep one mode intact, doing a half-***** job of content changes is beyond unlikely. It isn't worth it to them. We also know that Bandai-Namco is developing it(according to the rumor), not Sakurai, so there's absolutely no reason to have the same roster anyway. Plus, being it cannot be a legitimate straight port of either version, it's going to be its own unique version in some way. More characters is pretty inevitable at this point since that's the biggest way to sell the game now. Being our strongest source is saying it's not a launch title anymore, that clearly means they're changing the game up. Might as well just accept new content is coming anyway. Not like there's a problem with that. I just hope they improve the Stage Builder, namely, give it more parts. Brawl's was ultimately better due to having vastly more variety, even if both games felt like they were lacking(just combine both game's parts...).

Also, the only port/same game is the Zelda one, but they also omitted the touchscreen controls from the Wii U version since the Switch version cannot use a touchscreen. It was also advertised they'd be the same game. There's a reason all the Switch games previewed(besides Zelda) were clearly updated games that were either sequels or enhanced ports(if they were a Nintendo game). Nobody's going to really but the Switch if it has no new games at this point, and just lame ports. It isn't worth the money. Enough own a Wii U that they won't want to get the same game twice(this is also why the 3DS and Wii U have tons of differences besides how the characters play. Incentive).

Just because we've seen other games do it doesn't mean this one will.

Like, why even bother adding any new content when nobody played the Wii U version? The reason we have so many ports to begin with is because they're trying to grab people who skipped Wii U.

Splatoon looks more like a sequel since basically everything has changed... MK8 appears to have some big changes too. This is to be expected, since the Z MK and Splatoon teams haven't released anything in a long time... The Smash team we know has done absolutely nothing.

One entirely new game, a sequel that's running on the old engine, a somewhat tweaked port and a totally straight port does not a pattern make.

Multiple sources claim that the Switch has a touch screen... Smash could easily keep stage builder on the handheld only. Meanwhile something like extra buttons in BotW wouldn't quite work or be justified.

 

[N3ON]

Just because we've seen other games do it doesn't mean this one will.

No, but it's enough to see the others are (minus Zelda, which is going to launch on Switch), to reason there's a decent chance this one will too.

Like, why even bother adding any new content when nobody played the Wii U version? The reason we have so many ports to begin with is because they're trying to grab people who skipped Wii U.

To help entice the millions of people who did buy the Wii U version to basically buy it again with a few new bells and whistles. Why do you think they're updating the other two?

How many people bought the Wii U version? 4 million? 5 million? That's nothing to scoff at.

Splatoon looks more like a sequel since basically everything has changed... MK8 appears to have some big changes too. This is to be expected, since the Z MK and Splatoon teams haven't released anything in a long time... The Smash team we know has done absolutely nothing.

Aesthetically Splatoon looks different, and that's all that can really be said right now. That and local multiplayer, which is awesome.

Also MK9 is absolutely being worked on as well, don't kid yourself. These games aren't happening in place of sequels, they're stop-gaps as the sequels aren't yet ready. But, at least in the case of MK, and probably Splatoon too, they're definitely in development.

One entirely new game, a sequel that's running on the old engine, a somewhat tweaked port and a totally straight port does not a pattern make.

But three games, previously released, which experience new content as they are ported to a new console does.

That supposition is just as valid and factually grounded as yours. We'll see. We're hardly dealing with complete information atm.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Just because we've seen other games do it doesn't mean this one will.

And that doesn't mean they won't.

Like, why even bother adding any new content when nobody played the Wii U version? The reason we have so many ports to begin with is because they're trying to grab people who skipped Wii U.

As noted above, the Wii U version sold less than the 3DS version, but sold significantly well. It's really only Japan that disliked the Wii U version, honestly.

Splatoon looks more like a sequel since basically everything has changed... MK8 appears to have some big changes too. This is to be expected, since the Z MK and Splatoon teams haven't released anything in a long time... The Smash team we know has done absolutely nothing.

Nor has Smash. Smash has been dead as a game for a year outside of what players do. We also still have a rumor(which is backed by a reputable source) to go off of. The game was likely to be in development for at least 2 years, and the same source that got tons of stuff about the Switch correct(Emily Rogers) actually is backing up another source that it won't be a release at the start of the Switch's life, but be delayed. Now tell me this; Why on earth would they delay a straight port? They won't.

One entirely new game, a sequel that's running on the old engine, a somewhat tweaked port and a totally straight port does not a pattern make.

Nobody said it was a pattern. We said that there's quite a bit of evidence suggesting that Smash Switch will have new content. You're confusing a pattern with stuff that happens that could affect how they're making this game. Also, you're ignoring something I said; Sakurai and Bandai-Namco don't do straight ports. Why would they now? They're in-charge of the game. Nintendo just are letting them make it. Well, assuming Sakurai is there. I'm trying to look for the source that said Bandai-Namco is in-charge of the game. Which makes sense. With Iwata passing away, he's not there to suggest Sakurai as usual. Meaning that Sakurai, basically put, may or may not be there(I will edit in the source later). Ah, source was Dr. Toto(the one that specified that Bandai-Namco is making it. The fact Emily Rogers backs up this source makes it beyond likely to be true).

Multiple sources claim that the Switch has a touch screen... Smash could easily keep stage builder on the handheld only. Meanwhile something like extra buttons in BotW wouldn't quite work or be justified.

Could you list the sources? Assuming they're 100% reputable. I can't remember if it was Kotaku or not, but there was a known website that got caught for lying straight to our faces onstream. To say the least, if it's the one I'm thinking of, we can't trust that source at all.

However, even if so, with the Switch being apparently delayed till Summer, (At least according to Tom Philips. I am not actually considering him a definite source, since Emily Rogers isn't backing him up, but this is all I could find) and the game was likely worked on since around the same time the 3DS version released, there's no reason to believe it's a straight port at all. And remember, regardless of who's making this game, we have a strong reputable source that got everything else right saying it will be delayed till Summer. What more proof do you need that it's likely to be a unique game?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

- Add voice clips for certain characters (such as Villager, Mega Man and Pac-Man) when they get Star KO'd. For Villager, add a voice clip for screaming. For Mega Man, add the voice clip when he dies from "Mega Man 8". For Pac-Man, add the dying sound effect from a very old arcade "Pac-Man" game.

I really can't vision the Villager having voice clips. Even in Mario Kart 8, the Villager doesn't have any voice clips, but instead uses various sound effects from the Animal Crossing titles.

 

[William5000000]

I really can't vision the Villager having voice clips. Even in Mario Kart 8, the Villager doesn't have any voice clips, but instead uses various sound effects from the Animal Crossing titles.

Okay. Then how about this: add a sound effect when Villager mostly gets hit by an item from "Mario Kart 8". How's that for getting Star KO'd?

 

[LancerStaff]

No, but it's enough to see the others are (minus Zelda, which is going to launch on Switch), to reason there's a decent chance this one will too.


To help entice the millions of people who did buy the Wii U version to basically buy it again with a few new bells and whistles. Why do you think they're updating the other two?

How many people bought the Wii U version? 4 million? 5 million? That's nothing to scoff at.


Aesthetically Splatoon looks different, and that's all that can really be said right now. That and local multiplayer, which is awesome.

Also MK9 is absolutely being worked on as well, don't kid yourself. These games aren't happening in place of sequels, they're stop-gaps as the sequels aren't yet ready. But, at least in the case of MK, and probably Splatoon too, they're definitely in development.


But three games, previously released, which experience new content as they are ported to a new console does.

That supposition is just as valid and factually grounded as yours. We'll see. We're hardly dealing with complete information atm.

I'm more inclined to think this is another "pattern" the Smash fanbase has latched onto then anything.

The difference is that a simple upgrade to MK8 or Splatoon could be done mindlessly... You could just add a bunch of new tracks or weapons or whatever to intice people. That and there's confirmed mechanical changes to both games so you can hardly say they're straight ports. Smash is much more personal... You'd need to pick five or so characters that the Wii U playerbase would pay full price for. Okay, you have Inkling, a Pokémon... And that's it really. Bringing back ICs or Wolf wouldn't bring back a significant amount of players.

Splatoon I'm pretty sure is a sequel. Literally everything but some equipment was new. Every gun, the stage, and even the spawn point... And the removal of the Gamepad necessitates some changes.

And that doesn't mean they won't.


As noted above, the Wii U version sold less than the 3DS version, but sold significantly well. It's really only Japan that disliked the Wii U version, honestly.


Nor has Smash. Smash has been dead as a game for a year outside of what players do. We also still have a rumor(which is backed by a reputable source) to go off of. The game was likely to be in development for at least 2 years, and the same source that got tons of stuff about the Switch correct(Emily Rogers) actually is backing up another source that it won't be a release at the start of the Switch's life, but be delayed. Now tell me this; Why on earth would they delay a straight port? They won't.


Nobody said it was a pattern. We said that there's quite a bit of evidence suggesting that Smash Switch will have new content. You're confusing a pattern with stuff that happens that could affect how they're making this game. Also, you're ignoring something I said; Sakurai and Bandai-Namco don't do straight ports. Why would they now? They're in-charge of the game. Nintendo just are letting them make it. Well, assuming Sakurai is there. I'm trying to look for the source that said Bandai-Namco is in-charge of the game. Which makes sense. With Iwata passing away, he's not there to suggest Sakurai as usual. Meaning that Sakurai, basically put, may or may not be there(I will edit in the source later). Ah, source was Dr. Toto(the one that specified that Bandai-Namco is making it. The fact Emily Rogers backs up this source makes it beyond likely to be true).


Could you list the sources? Assuming they're 100% reputable. I can't remember if it was Kotaku or not, but there was a known website that got caught for lying straight to our faces onstream. To say the least, if it's the one I'm thinking of, we can't trust that source at all.

However, even if so, with the Switch being apparently delayed till Summer, (At least according to Tom Philips. I am not actually considering him a definite source, since Emily Rogers isn't backing him up, but this is all I could find) and the game was likely worked on since around the same time the 3DS version released, there's no reason to believe it's a straight port at all. And remember, regardless of who's making this game, we have a strong reputable source that got everything else right saying it will be delayed till Summer. What more proof do you need that it's likely to be a unique game?

And Nintendo bases most of it's decisions on Japan, so yeah... Mario Maker 3DS anyone?

We've also had sources saying it was very definitely coming out at launch, and your sources have been wrong about Switch info in the past... Also, there's a reason they'd delay a straight port. To produce more amiibo. Or even more simply, to smooth out a release schedule. Look at just just about any release this gen... Notice that games like Kirby or Yoshi release at totally different times, even just looking outside of Japan. Fun fact: The final US localization of Kirby Robobot was included with the Japanese version of the game several months prior.

Other games being upgraded =\= evidence Smash will be upgraded. And I don't think any source has said it would be, contrary to what you said, so right now we have absolutely no evidence pointing towards it.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-10-27-nintendo-switch-has-a-6-2-multi-touch-screen
Eurogamer's source, which appears to be reliable.

It makes no sense for Sakurai to quit development of Smash 4 only to return. Especially if he was aware of Smash Switch as you proposed. To be frank, I imagine Namco wants their devs back. Judging from how lazy the last patch was I'm pretty sure they're done with Smash.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Nobody said "will be upgraded". We said "is likely to be".

Those are entirely different arguments. Please don't strawman what we're saying. Remember, "likely" does not mean "will happen no matter what". It isn't confirmed. But there's a very good chance it'll have new content(which of course is a different argument than what it seems you're arguing against).

And Sakurai did quit Smash 4. He actually did leave after DLC. This was stated outright. He cannot legitimately join the team behind Smash For Switch unless either Bandai-Namco or Nintendo puts him on the team. You're not understanding how this works. Sakurai only has a say if he was hired for it. There is only information we have that Bandai-Namco is specifically developing it. That means, unless this rumor is false(and being it's backed by Emily Rogers, who got everything right about the NX before it was even called the Switch, it's extremely reliable), he may or may not have been hired for this particular iteration. In addition, the game would've had to be in development for a very long time now. Sakurai was specifically working with another part of Bandai-Namco, a separate team for DLC(again, this was stated), so if this game was in development for a while(very likely around the start of when people were given actual kits to properly make games, which was about when Smash 3DS released), then it also means Sakurai cannot be easily involved in it. He was extremely dedicated to Smash Wii U/3DS and then DLC specifically. The time table heavily implies that it was regular Bandai-Namco who worked on it, probably after the regular team finished Smash Wii U. Yes, this is working on an assumption.

As for your source, it's not reputable, unfortunately. It's the same source that also said the Switch is getting delayed. I did ask for the source of the "Switch delay" somewhere else, and it was made clear to me that he's not a known source and not backed up by anything. Any other more reputable sources? Like Emily Rogers?

However, there's an issue here too; if your source is reputable, that also means that the Switch got delayed. We know that Smash is coming to the Switch since the rumor is backed up by somebody who got everything right about the Switch information. With the explicit exception of Zelda being the same for both versions(despite the apparent touch screen), this cannot be applied to any other "port" at this time. All the rest were outright shown to be heavily enhanced games. Meaning that it's likely(again, not confirmed. Again, not "will happen") that Bandai-Namco(regardless of Sakurai, since we absolutely have no idea if he's on this project, since it's up to Nintendo and Bandai-Namco to hire him for it. This isn't his project any longer, keep in mind. His continuation of the project was through the DLC. To be clear, Namco-Bandai was declared(the rumor backed by a reputable source) to be developing Smash NX(which is obviously Smash for Switch, whether a new game or port, which the rumor never specified). Sakurai was unmentioned. This probably means at best he's just one of the various workers under Bandai-Namco if he's involved. It's very clear Nintendo hired Bandai-Namco here at this point. There's good reasons; First, with Iwata's passing, he is not there to convince Nintendo to hire Sakurai. Another is that Nintendo only planned to remake Melee for the Wii U, not to make all new games. Iwata convinced them to give it to Sakurai. Sakurai convinced Iwata to make two all new games. Do you understand the point? The chain of command does not fall on Sakurai. He doesn't actually own the Smash series. He's just a hired person to work on it. Obviously he's the most experienced developer with the series, so it's "his baby" by all means, but he doesn't own the explicit rights to make the series, Nintendo still does. If they give it Namco-Bandai and they nor Nintendo hire Sakurai for that team? He has no legal rights to do anything about it.

That's an unfortunate reality that a lot of people fail to realize now. Developer =/= Owner of the content. So if Sakurai isn't there(he probably is a lesser worker or a simple added consultant out of respect for his excellent work), don't act surprised.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Okay. Then how about this: add a sound effect when Villager mostly gets hit by an item from "Mario Kart 8". How's that for getting Star KO'd?

That would probably work out better. I just know that not every character has to have voice clips.

 

[William5000000]

That would probably work out better. I just know that not every character has to have voice clips.

Understood.

 

[LancerStaff]

Nobody said "will be upgraded". We said "is likely to be".

Those are entirely different arguments. Please don't strawman what we're saying. Remember, "likely" does not mean "will happen no matter what". It isn't confirmed. But there's a very good chance it'll have new content(which of course is a different argument than what it seems you're arguing against).

And Sakurai did quit Smash 4. He actually did leave after DLC. This was stated outright. He cannot legitimately join the team behind Smash For Switch unless either Bandai-Namco or Nintendo puts him on the team. You're not understanding how this works. Sakurai only has a say if he was hired for it. There is only information we have that Bandai-Namco is specifically developing it. That means, unless this rumor is false(and being it's backed by Emily Rogers, who got everything right about the NX before it was even called the Switch, it's extremely reliable), he may or may not have been hired for this particular iteration. In addition, the game would've had to be in development for a very long time now. Sakurai was specifically working with another part of Bandai-Namco, a separate team for DLC(again, this was stated), so if this game was in development for a while(very likely around the start of when people were given actual kits to properly make games, which was about when Smash 3DS released), then it also means Sakurai cannot be easily involved in it. He was extremely dedicated to Smash Wii U/3DS and then DLC specifically. The time table heavily implies that it was regular Bandai-Namco who worked on it, probably after the regular team finished Smash Wii U. Yes, this is working on an assumption.

As for your source, it's not reputable, unfortunately. It's the same source that also said the Switch is getting delayed. I did ask for the source of the "Switch delay" somewhere else, and it was made clear to me that he's not a known source and not backed up by anything. Any other more reputable sources? Like Emily Rogers?

However, there's an issue here too; if your source is reputable, that also means that the Switch got delayed. We know that Smash is coming to the Switch since the rumor is backed up by somebody who got everything right about the Switch information. With the explicit exception of Zelda being the same for both versions(despite the apparent touch screen), this cannot be applied to any other "port" at this time. All the rest were outright shown to be heavily enhanced games. Meaning that it's likely(again, not confirmed. Again, not "will happen") that Bandai-Namco(regardless of Sakurai, since we absolutely have no idea if he's on this project, since it's up to Nintendo and Bandai-Namco to hire him for it. This isn't his project any longer, keep in mind. His continuation of the project was through the DLC. To be clear, Namco-Bandai was declared(the rumor backed by a reputable source) to be developing Smash NX(which is obviously Smash for Switch, whether a new game or port, which the rumor never specified). Sakurai was unmentioned. This probably means at best he's just one of the various workers under Bandai-Namco if he's involved. It's very clear Nintendo hired Bandai-Namco here at this point. There's good reasons; First, with Iwata's passing, he is not there to convince Nintendo to hire Sakurai. Another is that Nintendo only planned to remake Melee for the Wii U, not to make all new games. Iwata convinced them to give it to Sakurai. Sakurai convinced Iwata to make two all new games. Do you understand the point? The chain of command does not fall on Sakurai. He doesn't actually own the Smash series. He's just a hired person to work on it. Obviously he's the most experienced developer with the series, so it's "his baby" by all means, but he doesn't own the explicit rights to make the series, Nintendo still does. If they give it Namco-Bandai and they nor Nintendo hire Sakurai for that team? He has no legal rights to do anything about it.

That's an unfortunate reality that a lot of people fail to realize now. Developer =/= Owner of the content. So if Sakurai isn't there(he probably is a lesser worker or a simple added consultant out of respect for his excellent work), don't act surprised.

It's not even likely. It's another blind Smash want.

If I'm arguing something different then why are you arguing with me? I just flat-out don't think it'll have any new content if it's a port.

Sakurai doesn't own the series... But with how Nintendo respects it's devs he might as well.

Touch screen or no, in regards to a Smash port it hardly matters. Cutting the stage builder is hardly a big deal. Especially after Mario Maker 3DS.

No, just because several other games had some level of enhanced port does not mean a totally unrelated game will get- Sorry, "is likely" lmao to get an enhanced port. It's a gigantic leap in logic no matter how many connections you try and make.

You're also ignoring my questions... Do you really think people would buy the game again for Inkling and four zeros?

 

[N3ON]

I'm more inclined to think this is another "pattern" the Smash fanbase has latched onto then anything.

I think you're missing the part where people are saying it's possible or likely, not guaranteed. Smash, like MK and Splatoon, received post-release content (which was by all accounts quite lucrative to Nintendo), and is almost definitely getting a port. The other two which have been shown so far clearly include new content. It's not a huge leap to predict the Smash port will also get new content as well. For all we know, it was being developed concurrently with the DLC.

For Nintendo series, Smash might have the most fervent fanbase. That or Pokemon. Throwing a few new characters in there to coax the existing fanbase to adopt the most "definitive" version and therefore the new platform makes quite a bit of sense, and absolutely outweighs the costs of development.

The difference is that a simple upgrade to MK8 or Splatoon could be done mindlessly... You could just add a bunch of new tracks or weapons or whatever to intice people. That and there's confirmed mechanical changes to both games so you can hardly say they're straight ports.

First off, I never called them straight ports. They're obviously not, I basically said as much. Second, you can't change the mechanics, add new weapons, tracks/maps and characters and deem the upgrade "mindless". At least not if you're going to insinuate simply adding characters to Smash isn't also "mindless" upgrading.

Especially since you're apparently positing that the inhibiting aspect for Smash would be choosing the characters, which is silly.

Smash is much more personal... You'd need to pick five or so characters that the Wii U playerbase would pay full price for. Okay, you have Inkling, a Pokémon... And that's it really. Bringing back ICs or Wolf wouldn't bring back a significant amount of players.

If only Nintendo had a quantitative list of characters fans wanted and voted for which they can implement into a Smash game...

And obviously veterans hold clout, Nintendo used them as Smash's first foray into DLC. They're not all going to hold the same sway, but when you're targeting people who already own Smash 4 and might buy it again with these upgrades, the veterans are going to mean something to them. They're obv fans of the series.

Splatoon I'm pretty sure is a sequel. Literally everything but some equipment was new. Every gun, the stage, and even the spawn point... And the removal of the Gamepad necessitates some changes.

A gun, stage, and spawn point? That's no different than showing a new MK track and characters, it hardly precludes the possibility it's an upgraded port. It's like three seconds of footage, of course they're going to show new stuff.

And yeah the removal of the gamepad does necessitate change, but it's not going to make the game outright incompatible to the point a true sequel is the only option.

It's not even likely. It's another blind Smash want.

Acting like there is no fathomable reason to expect upgrades reflects on you more than the rest. You're the only one dealing in absolutes here.

Sakurai doesn't own the series... But with how Nintendo respects it's devs he might as well.

You're not going to hear any external strife but it seems fairly evident to me that DLC in the first place was not Sakurai's idea. They respect him to the point they will choose him to oversee Smash should he agree. Should he not, the ride will keep going without him. This is not an Itoi situation. Money comes first.

No, just because several other games had some level of enhanced port does not mean a totally unrelated game will get- Sorry, "is likely" lmao to get an enhanced port. It's a gigantic leap in logic no matter how many connections you try and make.

I hope your condescension serves you well come January, or whenever the port gets revealed.

You're also ignoring my questions... Do you really think people would buy the game again for Inkling and four zeros?

Yes. And Inkling and four other characters much of the Smash fanbase would actually be hyped about, even more.

You're acting like Inkling is the only desired character left, which is blatantly not the case. Remember last year?

 

[LancerStaff]

I think you're missing the part where people are saying it's possible or likely, not guaranteed. Smash, like MK and Splatoon, received post-release content (which was by all accounts quite lucrative to Nintendo), and is almost definitely getting a port. The other two which have been shown so far clearly include new content. It's not a huge leap to predict the Smash port will also get new content as well. For all we know, it was being developed concurrently with the DLC.

For Nintendo series, Smash might have the most fervent fanbase. That or Pokemon. Throwing a few new characters in there to coax the existing fanbase to adopt the most "definitive" version and therefore the new platform makes quite a bit of sense, and absolutely outweighs the costs of development.


First off, I never called them straight ports. They're obviously not, I basically said as much. Second, you can't change the mechanics, add new weapons, tracks/maps and characters and deem the upgrade "mindless". At least not if you're going to insinuate simply adding characters to Smash isn't also "mindless" upgrading.

Especially since you're apparently positing that the inhibiting aspect for Smash would be choosing the characters, which is silly.


If only Nintendo had a quantitative list of characters fans wanted and voted for which they can implement into a Smash game...

And obviously veterans hold clout, Nintendo used them as Smash's first foray into DLC. They're not all going to hold the same sway, but when you're targeting people who already own Smash 4 and might buy it again with these upgrades, the veterans are going to mean something to them. They're obv fans of the series.


A gun, stage, and spawn point? That's no different than showing a new MK track and characters, it hardly precludes the possibility it's an upgraded port. It's like three seconds of footage, of course they're going to show new stuff.

And yeah the removal of the gamepad does necessitate change, but it's not going to make the game outright incompatible to the point a true sequel is the only option.


Acting like there is no fathomable reason to expect upgrades reflects on you more than the rest. You're the only one dealing in absolutes here.


You're not going to hear any external strife but it seems fairly evident to me that DLC in the first place was not Sakurai's idea. They respect him to the point they will choose him to oversee Smash should he agree. Should he not, the ride will keep going without him. This is not an Itoi situation. Money comes first.


I hope your condescension serves you well come January, or whenever the port gets revealed.


Yes. And Inkling and four other characters much of the Smash fanbase would actually be hyped about, even more.

You're acting like Inkling is the only desired character left, which is blatantly not the case. Remember last year?

It hardly even looks possible... We're not even in the ballpark of likely. Again, just because two totally unrelated games are getting something does not mean Smash will.

Mindless, as in they don't need to be picky about what they add. Like in Mario Kart it'd hardly matter what characters or tracks they'd add. With Smash they'd have to be pretty picky if they want to convince people to upgrade. Remember most of the series's sales and fanbase aren't maniacs that adore obscure characters.

Considering that Bayonetta of all characters won the ballot I really don't think Nintendo's going to be using it for more serious additions that'd appeal to everybody.

Nintendo used veterans because they were easy to make and could be totally half-assed because fanboys would buy them.

We didn't see a new track on MK...

The important thing to note with Splatoon is that the only old stuff we saw was the equipment on the Inkling girl from all the advertising... Speaking of advertising the majority of the signs were new. Even in the old game new stages had old signs. Most of the weapons were redesigns of the basic gear. Pants and hairstyles are a thing. Basic items have radically different designs, multiple mechanics are either gone or replaced... That's not a sign of a port. I'm expecting something like Brawl to Smash 4 where it has most of the old content and a ton of new content.

Where are you going with that idea anyway? If its an attempt at showing me that I'm being contrarian it's not going to work because they're two totally different situations.

I don't think you have any proof Sakurai didn't want to make the DLC and again it's a different situation. Nintendo world want Sakurai on the project, and they'd be willing to work him into the ground because Japan. Basically making something behind his back is not something they'd do, and if they had any idea that they'd be making such an enhanced port they wouldn't of let him off of the project.

I hope you're willing to apologize when we finally hear one way or another.

I'm sorry but the Smash fanbase you know is a horribly biased and opinionated echo chamber. It's opinions weren't even remotely indicative of the ballot... It's not just about current fans who constantly talk about the games on forums. They care just as much about casual players and people who have never even played Smash before. The ballot wasn't widespread enough for Nintendo to chose characters from for a situation like this.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

This is a Mod Warning, and does apply to anyone who replies in general. Do not act condescending towards other users. This is blatant disrespect towards others and will not be tolerated. This is your one and only Warning. I will hand out Warnings and/or Infractions where necessary if it continues.

Also, do not reply to the mod stuff here. If you have an issue with this verbal warning, takes it to PM's or contact Forum Support.

-------------

Back to the point, Business is a different thing. Sakurai does not own the Smash Bros. series. It's not a case of "he might as well", it's a case of "Nintendo will hire him if they want to." You are still ignoring a key fact that they hired him because of Iwata's influence each time. Iwata sadly passed away. While I hate using him as an example this way, with him gone, Nintendo has no actual incentive to hire the same Director over and over. Now, they may do so, but all we have to go on is that "Bandai-Namco is working on a Smash Bros. game for the NX" as the entire thing, fully backed by Emily Rogers, a very reputable source. That means we cannot say it's a straight port(To clarify, if they remove anything or change it up, it no longer is a straight port. A straight port means absolutely zero changes). However, saying it's guaranteed Sakura is involved is not a fact and cannot be treated as one. Why would they remove the Stage Builder if the touchscreen works? It'd make it less likely to sell. Removing any content does that. If the touchscreen isn't feasible, then removing it makes sense, but they have to add something else to make it worthwhile for anyone to buy. He's as likely to be involved as it's likely for this to be an all new game or enhanced port. Pretty much the same chances.

We know for a fact that Bandai-Namco and Sakurai both dislike making straight ports. The fact that every port shown so far from the Wii U(the Zelda game is not a port but actually a game made for both systems at the same time and is a poor example to use due to this) is different does actually mean it's unlikely any game would be a straight port. Yes, it's an assumption. But it's a fairly safe one when you take fully into account how the people who are beyond Smash actually operate as developers.

Nobody is saying it's impossible for Smash Switch to be a straight port. That's ridiculous. Until it's announced with details, anything else is just our opinions on it(regardless of assumptions).

As for your other question; The main reason Smash has always sold is actually because of the characters. That's been its selling point from day one of the series. It's why it went from Dragon King: The Fighting Game to Super Smash Bros. They worried it wouldn't sell if it had generic characters. It sold pretty well simply because of who was in it.

Inkllings and 4 others(I wouldn't really call them zeros, that's pretty odd to call loved Nintendo characters and various Video Game Icons) would make a huge difference in sales. We know that the Wii U version still sold heavily, but a lot of that wasn't just due to the roster, but also due to the modes. This is also why cutting any mode is a bad idea unless it gets new content to back it up. In addition, people aren't going to buy a 3rd version of Smash unless it's unique in some way. There's still a huge citing of Wii U version owners. They aren't going to buy Smash Switch unless it has content that gives them a good incentive. Right now? There's none of it's a port. It's a giant waste of money. If it had different content, then they might go for it if they find the content worthwhile(but unless it's new it isn't all that likely).

To give an example; The reason stuff like Ultra Street Fighter 4 even sells is because of new content(characters, stages, music, balance changes, they're all new and all matter in the long run). Much like how system exclusives are the only reason people buy a game for two different systems(Virtual Console and similar stuff on the other Companies' systems don't count. We're talking about remakes of games). The reason Wind Waker HD, Ocarina of Time HD, Twilight Princess HD, and Majora's Mask HD even sell well is because of tons of unique content. There would be no point in buying them full price if they were straight ports. VC is one thing, or a combo pack of multiple games in one(since that's a good deal and you can get rid of older versions of the game for more money to spend on what you want) thing too.

 

[LancerStaff]

This is a Mod Warning, and does apply to anyone who replies in general. Do not act condescending towards other users. This is blatant disrespect towards others and will not be tolerated. This is your one and only Warning. I will hand out Warnings and/or Infractions where necessary if it continues.

Also, do not reply to the mod stuff here. If you have an issue with this verbal warning, takes it to PM's or contact Forum Support.

-------------

Back to the point, Business is a different thing. Sakurai does not own the Smash Bros. series. It's not a case of "he might as well", it's a case of "Nintendo will hire him if they want to." You are still ignoring a key fact that they hired him because of Iwata's influence each time. Iwata sadly passed away. While I hate using him as an example this way, with him gone, Nintendo has no actual incentive to hire the same Director over and over. Now, they may do so, but all we have to go on is that "Bandai-Namco is working on a Smash Bros. game for the NX" as the entire thing, fully backed by Emily Rogers, a very reputable source. That means we cannot say it's a straight port(To clarify, if they remove anything or change it up, it no longer is a straight port. A straight port means absolutely zero changes). However, saying it's guaranteed Sakura is involved is not a fact and cannot be treated as one. Why would they remove the Stage Builder if the touchscreen works? It'd make it less likely to sell. Removing any content does that. If the touchscreen isn't feasible, then removing it makes sense, but they have to add something else to make it worthwhile for anyone to buy. He's as likely to be involved as it's likely for this to be an all new game or enhanced port. Pretty much the same chances.

We know for a fact that Bandai-Namco and Sakurai both dislike making straight ports. The fact that every port shown so far from the Wii U(the Zelda game is not a port but actually a game made for both systems at the same time and is a poor example to use due to this) is different does actually mean it's unlikely any game would be a straight port. Yes, it's an assumption. But it's a fairly safe one when you take fully into account how the people who are beyond Smash actually operate as developers.

Nobody is saying it's impossible for Smash Switch to be a straight port. That's ridiculous. Until it's announced with details, anything else is just our opinions on it(regardless of assumptions).

As for your other question; The main reason Smash has always sold is actually because of the characters. That's been its selling point from day one of the series. It's why it went from Dragon King: The Fighting Game to Super Smash Bros. They worried it wouldn't sell if it had generic characters. It sold pretty well simply because of who was in it.

Inkllings and 4 others(I wouldn't really call them zeros, that's pretty odd to call loved Nintendo characters and various Video Game Icons) would make a huge difference in sales. We know that the Wii U version still sold heavily, but a lot of that wasn't just due to the roster, but also due to the modes. This is also why cutting any mode is a bad idea unless it gets new content to back it up. In addition, people aren't going to buy a 3rd version of Smash unless it's unique in some way. There's still a huge citing of Wii U version owners. They aren't going to buy Smash Switch unless it has content that gives them a good incentive. Right now? There's none of it's a port. It's a giant waste of money. If it had different content, then they might go for it if they find the content worthwhile(but unless it's new it isn't all that likely).

To give an example; The reason stuff like Ultra Street Fighter 4 even sells is because of new content(characters, stages, music, balance changes, they're all new and all matter in the long run). Much like how system exclusives are the only reason people buy a game for two different systems(Virtual Console and similar stuff on the other Companies' systems don't count. We're talking about remakes of games). The reason Wind Waker HD, Ocarina of Time HD, Twilight Princess HD, and Majora's Mask HD even sell well is because of tons of unique content. There would be no point in buying them full price if they were straight ports. VC is one thing, or a combo pack of multiple games in one(since that's a good deal and you can get rid of older versions of the game for more money to spend on what you want) thing too.

Thing is, since Iwata reached out for Sakurai every time that means Nintendo is going to respect his wishes and do it again. Japanese companies and especially Nintendo care very much about loyalty... They're not going to suddenly stop because Iwata died. Quite the opposite.

Real quick, I'm just going to say that I'm not here to argue semantics. If you're going to say it's not a straight port because one insignificant thing is different... You're just moving the goalposts. When I say "straight port" I mean no real content will be added. Adding, oh say, a local wireless mode won't make me budge. That's still 99% a straight port.

Port being worked on =\= new content. That's a gigantic assumption. Speaking of local wireless... That could be all Namco's working on. Potentially from some residual from their contract. Wether or not the rumor is true means nothing.

I don't know about Namco, but Sakurai has never said anything that would make you think he doesn't like ports. He didn't want the then potential Smash 3 to be Melee with some extra... Which if anything supports my side more then yours.

It's not a safe assumption because these are totally different games and we have zero evidence pointing towards it. Like, seriously. What does MK8 and Splatoon have to do with Smash? Why can't you compare it to the totally lackluster ports to 3DS?

Smash sells because of a handful of characters are in it. You could cut everybody besides the Mario, Zelda and Pokémon characters and some third parties and it'd sell basically just as well.

Again, that's under the assumption that Nintendo wants to have Wii U owners buy the game. Just as easily it could be Christmas filler like the 3DS ports and/or incentive to buy a Nintendo console again after skipping Wii U.

>Zelda ports
>New content
???
Wind Waker HD sold terribly and it's arguably the most changed. OoT3D didn't do anything exceptional. TPHD arguably only sold as well as it did because of the amiibo. MM3D is the only one that did well of it's own merit.

There's a reason the Ultra Turbo HD Final mix+ model has basically died off, yaknow...

 

[tiberus8]

- FIX THE DARN TOP KO RANDOMNESS PLEASE (and no random tripping from "Brawl" please)! Seriously, the randomness on those top KOs (even if they're not truly random) is very bad for the metagame, especially in last stock situations. Make the Star KOs/Screen KOs occur for on-stage moves and upward Blast KOs occur for off-stage moves, even on Training Mode. That way, there would be no unfair wins or losses, as well as unfair punishes, and the matches would go much more smoother, even if it isn't 100% perfect.
- Fix the random untechable spin animation (100% damage or more)! Same reason as said above!
- Add voice clips for certain characters (such as Villager, Mega Man and Pac-Man) when they get Star KO'd. For Villager, add a sound effect for when he/she gets hit by an item from "Mario Kart 8". For Mega Man, add the voice clip when he dies from "Mega Man 8". For Pac-Man, add the dying sound effect from a very old arcade "Pac-Man" game.
- The Rage mechanic should only be in play from 100% damage up to 150% damage (VERY UNLIKELY), and it should be a factor on Training Mode.
- Crowd cheers quality should be improved, and the crowd should chant 8 times when the character is at 100% damage or more.

- this is why i stopped playing smash 4. would be very nice.
- so thats the reason why my character couldnt tech sometimes. make that one more reason why i stopped.
- the more, the merrier.
- i was always unhappy with my character getting killed earlier than expected, especially at percentages lower than 40 when the other character was at max rage. as for it being a factor on training mode, that would be very nice.
- havent really paid much attention to that. but watching the cheers video, i can understand why.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Thing is, since Iwata reached out for Sakurai every time that means Nintendo is going to respect his wishes and do it again. Japanese companies and especially Nintendo care very much about loyalty... They're not going to suddenly stop because Iwata died. Quite the opposite.

Yeah, but they didn't hire him for Smash Switch. Absolutely nothing points to it. Quick question; What will you do if we find out Sakurai isn't involved at all? Obviously Namco-Bandai are the Directors here.

Real quick, I'm just going to say that I'm not here to argue semantics. If you're going to say it's not a straight port because one insignificant thing is different... You're just moving the goalposts. When I say "straight port" I mean no real content will be added. Adding, oh say, a local wireless mode won't make me budge. That's still 99% a straight port.

Port being worked on =\= new content. That's a gigantic assumption. Speaking of local wireless... That could be all Namco's working on. Potentially from some residual from their contract. Wether or not the rumor is true means nothing.

We already acknowledged it's an assumption. Just like yours is. You have not shown why it cannot be likely at all. Why you think it is, but evidence shows otherwise.

I don't know about Namco, but Sakurai has never said anything that would make you think he doesn't like ports. He didn't want the then potential Smash 3 to be Melee with some extra... Which if anything supports my side more then yours.

Give me a bit to find it. And keep in mind he did make two games that are entirely different with the same roster(and refused to do a simple Melee HD port, because he wanted it to be a new experience), which is pretty much like having an enhanced port, so we do know he's okay with those. I will edit this in when I do, but I know that he doesn't do straight ports, period. Never has, but if I'm mistaken, you can easily reply with exact examples(and cite them) of him being strictly involved with a straight port. I'l concede that point if you can provide evidence of the contrary.

It's not a safe assumption because these are totally different games and we have zero evidence pointing towards it. Like, seriously. What does MK8 and Splatoon have to do with Smash? Why can't you compare it to the totally lackluster ports to 3DS?

So the directors(Bandai-Namco) who hate doing straight ports and every game outright ported to it among the previous Nintendo games being enhanced ports isn't a sign? Cynicism isn't an argument that matters here. Yours is just as much as an assumption, but you haven't backed it up at all besides "cause I said so". You need actual evidence to convince anyone at this point. More people are convinced it'll be an enhanced port for a lot of reasons; Characters far more sell than balance changes.

Smash sells because of a handful of characters are in it. You could cut everybody besides the Mario, Zelda and Pokémon characters and some third parties and it'd sell basically just as well.

This isn't remotely true. It has a ton of series, and with Fire Emblem being a huge thing now, that sells it heavily too. Tons of fan favorites is among them.

Again, that's under the assumption that Nintendo wants to have Wii U owners buy the game. Just as easily it could be Christmas filler like the 3DS ports and/or incentive to buy a Nintendo console again after skipping Wii U.

>Zelda ports
>New content
???
Wind Waker HD sold terribly and it's arguably the most changed. OoT3D didn't do anything exceptional. TPHD arguably only sold as well as it did because of the amiibo. MM3D is the only one that did well of it's own merit.

You are aware that the Switch comes out way after Christmas, right?

All 4 games added new content. OOT3D added an entirely different version of Master Quest and heavily revamped the item system to make it significantly more intuitive, and added a touch screen. MM3D is not just that, but entirely changed the Zora Link controls to make it far easier to due the Great Bay Temple. TPHD added new modes via the amiibo, which is a major change to what you can do. Never mind a better menu/hud due to the Tablet. These make the experience extremely different. Removing the Tingle Tuner and changing it to the Tingle Bottle(one that is actually an online option) is a major gameplay change. The only one that didn't change too much was OOT3D, but it still made a big difference in the overall game experience. All 4 are still enhanced ports in the long run, since they heavily affected gameplay.

Also, 3DS owners won't buy the game either unless it has new content. Why would they? What's it do for them? They already have a high quality game with the same stuff. If Bandai-Namco(Nintendo has never worked on a Smash game, to note) is making it as the rumor says(which again, being it's backed up by a reputable source who got everything about the Switch right), why would they just release the least popular version as a port with no differences people care about? That doesn't make sense at all. They're better off making an all new game since it would actually sell that an inferior version's port. They know what sells, and history shows they always enhance their ports(bar Pac-Man, respectively). Soul Calibur is a fun example of this; Now, they do have two of the same versions released for two different systems from time to time, but they always have exclusive characters in return. When they ported Soul Calibur 4 to the PSP, they explicitly gave it heavily changed up content and new characters. This is how they make fighting games. Being they are in charge of Smash Switch(you cannot assume Sakurai is there with no source backing that up. Hunches do not count for evidence, and yes, people will tell you you're wrong for a good reason. Hunches don't win arguments, facts and evidence do at this rate. And as someone who has argued based solely on principle? Yeah, they don't take you seriously, which is sad. I respect your opinion, but you do need more evidence in some areas before we can believe that Sakurai is legitimately involved, not a hunch, as well as that there's no way it cannot be an enhanced port, which is your respective stance).

Clarification: Virtual console games are not what people mean when they talk about ports.

As for WWHD, the Tingle Tuner was a majorly popular option. Removing that probably didn't help much.

There's a reason the Ultra Turbo HD Final mix+ model has basically died off, yaknow...

Enhance porting the same game over and over again(as in a severe amount of times) instead of making something new is a problem, yes(this is why they just add DLC and at best make one "final edition" and end it there). Porting it once with new content(while you may believe tiny changes don't count, that's not how directors see it. Any changes count as a unique entry. No changes is a straight port when it comes to game releases. There aren't exceptions to this. Your definition really cannot be used for game development, because it paints a false picture of what's happening).

 

[LancerStaff]

Yeah, but they didn't hire him for Smash Switch. Absolutely nothing points to it. Quick question; What will you do if we find out Sakurai isn't involved at all? Obviously Namco-Bandai are the Directors here.

I don't believe the rumor ruled out Sakurai... From how it looks it seems like he's gone, but the same could be said of Namco. Knowing Nintendo, they'd have him there if they wanted to do anything significant.

Assuming Sakurai will be there if there's new content is a safe bet because every time we've had new content in Smash, he's been there. Assuming there'll be new content just because two other games are getting it when Nintendo's had plenty of lazy-*** ports recently is... Well, not.

We already acknowledged it's an assumption. Just like yours is. You have not shown why it cannot be likely at all. Why you think it is, but evidence shows otherwise.

What evidence?

Give me a bit to find it.

Fine, but there's no point arguing about proof that may or may not exist... If you wish to take this point further I suggest you supply it fast, and also prove that these directors of yours are actually working on the game.

More people are convinced it'll be an enhanced port for a lot of reasons; Characters far more sell than balance changes.

Ooooh, more people think this.

Make me care.

This isn't remotely true. It has a ton of series, and with Fire Emblem being a huge thing now, that sells it heavily too. Tons of fan favorites is among them.

Wrong way around.

You are aware that the Switch comes out way after Christmas, right?

And Nintendo confirmed a release date for Smash Switch?

All 4 games added new content. OOT3D added an entirely different version of Master Quest and heavily revamped the item system to make it significantly more intuitive, and added a touch screen. MM3D is not just that, but entirely changed the Zora Link controls to make it far easier to due the Great Bay Temple. TPHD added new modes via the amiibo, which is a major change to what you can do. Never mind a better menu/hud due to the Tablet. These make the experience extremely different. Removing the Tingle Tuner and changing it to the Tingle Bottle(one that is actually an online option) is a major gameplay change. The only one that didn't change too much was OOT3D, but it still made a big difference in the overall game experience. All 4 are still enhanced ports in the long run, since they heavily affected gameplay.

...Did you even play the games? The "new" MQ is the same thing from the GC disk mirrored and extra (extra pointless) damage. MM butchered as many mechanics as it fixed. TP added one mode centered on boring wolf combat in a game known for its broken combat. WW actually fixed and improved a significant portion of the game... And sold less for their efforts.

Tingle Tuner was an optional thing that required a cable most people didn't have. People didn't really care for it much because it pretty much broke the game.

Also, 3DS owners won't buy the game either unless it has new content. Why would they? What's it do for them?

The same kind of people that bought 3D and U... I'm sure people will buy the shiny HD version of Smash for there new system.

Porting it once with new content(while you may believe tiny changes don't count, that's not how directors see it. Any changes count as a unique entry. No changes is a straight port when it comes to game releases. There aren't exceptions to this. Your definition really cannot be used for game development, because it paints a false picture of what's happening).

...What? No really, what is this? I've heard devs call games with minor changes ports all the time. The fact of the matter is that there's no set definition about these things and arguing about them is completely pointless.

I'm not arguing semantics.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't believe the rumor ruled out Sakurai... From how it looks it seems like he's gone, but the same could be said of Namco. Knowing Nintendo, they'd have him there if they wanted to do anything significant.

Assuming Sakurai will be there if there's new content is a safe bet because every time we've had new content in Smash, he's been there. Assuming there'll be new content just because two other games are getting it when Nintendo's had plenty of lazy-*** ports recently is... Well, not.

The rumor does not say Sakurai. We cannot assume he's there no matter what. That's the straight out evidence we have for him not being involved, because absolutely nothing suggests he is. A hunch does not count for anyone.

What evidence?

Actual tweets backed up by a reputable source that Smash Switch is being made by Bandai-Namco. Every single other Nintendo game but Zelda having new content. Saying this doesn't matter is a bit ridiculous. It does. It is straight evidence that only Zelda can be used a legit example of a port. I get your point here, but we don't have anything that actually paints it as being a straight port, but actual examples of stuff being enhanced for 1st party games. This is a 1st party game, so... this is why people say it's more likely.

Fine, but there's no point arguing about proof that may or may not exist... If you wish to take this point further I suggest you supply it fast, and also prove that these directors of yours are actually working on the game.

Very fair.

Wrong way around.

Except it's 100% right. This is part of why FE was even considered for 2 DLC. It also got the most new content any series ever got since Melee's major additions to the Zelda series. You're just going to have to accept that FE is among the big boys now. It's heavily outdwarfed DK as a series in popularity. Its increase in content is Smash is equal to how big it got. Denying this fact won't matter. Also, a big part of DK's fall was Rare being gone, so it's no surprise it isn't on the same level as Pokemon/Mario/Zelda anymore like Fire Emblem is now. It's not as iconic, but literally just as big of a series.

And Nintendo confirmed a release date for Smash Switch?

No. But that's because it's nothing more than a rumor(that did not specify anything but "Namco-Bandai is making Smash Switch") backed by a reputable source. The only non-reputable rumor is that Smash Switch is being delayed and that the Switch is being delayed, from the same source you gave. Which is the only source that says it's a touchscreen. If the Switch is being delayed, do you honestly think that the team working on the port are going to be spending at least a year doing nothing? It was already likely started after Smash 4's Wii U development finished. This is also why they didn't mention Sakurai in the tweet. He was involved in an unrelated project, the DLC one.

...Did you even play the games? The "new" MQ is the same thing from the GC disk mirrored and extra (extra pointless) damage. MM butchered as many mechanics as it fixed. TP added one mode centered on boring wolf combat in a game known for its broken combat. WW actually fixed and improved a significant portion of the game... And sold less for their efforts.

Again, the condescending stuff? Not tolerated here. I haven't gotten that far, but you can easily correct me without talking down to someone. In addition, changing the entire item menu and making the Iron Boots quick to go into made a huge difference in gameplay. It is affected less than the other 3 enhanced ports, of course. And new modes are major differences no matter how you slice it. It's major content changes.

Tingle Tuner was an optional thing that required a cable most people didn't have. People didn't really care for it much because it pretty much broke the game.

And the Tingle Tuner had even less popularity because it didn't do anything useful for anyone besides let you get some Trophies. It didn't enhance the game in the same way.

The same kind of people that bought 3D and U... I'm sure people will buy the shiny HD version of Smash for there new system.

You couldn't be more wrong. People were hesitant to get both versions for a reason. The only reason both sold was because of huge differences and the Gamecube controller for one version. The 3DS version still sold more for a reason. Your personal idea of how people will act based upon yourself is a false interpretation of fans. There's a major fact that the only reason all these enhanced ports started to slowly not sell as much was due to A) DLC being possible and B) People sick of playing a slightly different game each time. This does not apply to a total of 3 unique games with similar mechanics. People generally stop when a 4th version comes out because they heavily worry they'll waste their money. This took forever for that general opinion to even exist. With DLC not existing, it's impossible to get burned. They got what they paid for. And paid for something with a key difference that made it felt worth it. Keep in mind that those Street Fighter updated ports with new content also improved many things. It was just like the Smash patches. DLC pretty much just removed the idea of forcing to do enhanced ports to improve a game. Companies still do enhanced ports all the time and constantly they sell extremely well. There's a reason Street Fighter II had tons of enhanced ports. It hasn't even been called a remake(for a reason).

...What? No really, what is this? I've heard devs call games with minor changes ports all the time. The fact of the matter is that there's no set definition about these things and arguing about them is completely pointless.

Again, do not talk down to people.

I'm not arguing semantics.

For the purpose of this topic, always consider an enhanced port a game with new content, no matter what. This is the set definition for this thread at this time. That way, we all know exactly what is being talked about. Nobody should be arguing semantics instead of the actual points being made.

If not obvious, anything said in pure bold is a Mod statement.

 

[Roberto zampari]

I have news for you: https://mynintendonews.com/2016/11/16/sakurai-reconfirms-that-he-is-working-on-a-new-project/

Could it be a new Smash Bros 5 for Switch?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Five Characters if any.

• Ice Climbers
• Wolf
• Inkling
• Elma
• Decidueye

If there was further new content, I'd like to see a Melee styled adventure mode and custom moves for DLC characters.

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

If there is going to be Smash for Switch, I'll be jumping for joy like a hyperactive cheerleader.

What would be nice is to see the return of custom special moves but this time they're all available from the start. No unlockable characters, either. Everyone should be available from the start. I hate having to fight secret characters to unlock them, and I'm thinking no one here likes that, too.

Five Characters if any.

• Ice Climbers
• Wolf
• Inkling
• Elma
• Decidueye

I do believe that is a great idea! But I'd also like to see Viridi (Kid Icarus) and Ashley (WarioWare) get a piece of the action.

 

[dezeray112]

Five Characters if any.

• Ice Climbers
• Wolf
• Inkling
• Elma
• Decidueye

If there was further new content, I'd like to see a Melee styled adventure mode and custom moves for DLC characters.

Those would pretty much be my choices as well. In addition, if they were to add another guest character, who would you want it to be?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Those would pretty much be my choices as well. In addition, if they were to add another guest character, who would you want it to be?

Who would I WANT it to be? Personally Metal Sonic or Bomberman (Who I believe despite him being dead the past decade is VERY deserving)

I think we have everyone we need though. There's no way another Third-Party would happen yet. We had 3 in the original and three added through DLC. That's enough.

I really can't vision the Villager having voice clips.

That's because he doesn't have any.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

We had 3 in the original and three added through DLC. That's enough.

You say that...

But I feel third parties are going to become more common because they're the best way to advertise at this point.

Aside from Inkling, Toad, Isabelle, maybe a Pokemon and some Zelda/DK characters, Nintendo is out of big guns to put into the game.

Not to say smaller characters can't or shouldn't get in. I love the more obscure ones myself, but I'm just saying. A new game will need those megatons.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I really can't see any of the 7th generation Pokemon getting the playable treatment, but they could always be implemented as Poke Ball Pokemon. For some Poke Ball Pokemon inputs...

1. Rowlet: Uses Leafage to damage opponents.
2. Litten: Spits out Ember to damage opponents.
3. Popplio: Uses Bubble Beam to damage opponents.
4. Charjabug: Powers up the fighter who released it. The fighter's attacks will deal 1.15x more damage than normal until Charjabug leaves.
5. Rockruff: Uses Rock Tomb to damage opponents and temporarily decrease their overall mobility.
6. Wishiwashi: If released, it'll try to call for backup. If it fails, then it does nothing. If it succeeds, however, then the School Form will appear and deliver a powerful Hydro Pump that has high knockback, and can send opponents flying at low angles.
7. Bewear: It'll attack opponents with Hammer Arm. The attack's knockback is so powerful that it can 1-hit KO even metallic fighters, making Bewear extremely dangerous for any opposing fighter.
8. Tsareena: It'll use Trop Kick on opponents. The attack has meteor smash properties, and can even bury opponents who are on the ground.
9. Comfey: When released, it'll use Floral Healing on the fighter who released it. The fighter's current damage will be cut in half. In a stamina match, the move heals half of the fighter's maximum HP instead.
10. Togedemaru: Attacks opponents with Zing Zap. The attack briefly stuns opponents before sending them flying.
11. Cosmog: Does nothing but splash around.
12. Solgaleo: Attacks opponents with Sunsteel Strike. The attack has high knockback.
13. Lunala: Attacks opponents with Moongeist Beam. The attack has high knockback.
14. Magearna: Attacks opponents with Fleur Cannon. The attack's knockback is not only high, but it also negates all weight boosting properties of the Super Mushroom and Metal Box.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

You say that...

But I feel third parties are going to become more common because they're the best way to advertise at this point.

Aside from Inkling, Toad, Isabelle, maybe a Pokemon and some Zelda/DK characters, Nintendo is out of big guns to put into the game.

Not to say smaller characters can't or shouldn't get in. I love the more obscure ones myself, but I'm just saying. A new game will need those megatons.

I don't see any other third parties to add besides the major stretches which are the ones from currently represented IPs. I could maybe see some additions from indies that are becoming popular like Shovel Knight, Shantae, or Yooka-Laylee (yes I know Y-L is being published by Team 17)

As for the IPs you mentioned. I would like to see Dixie & Toon Zelda. Both of which I have in the roster I didn't show. But, realistically I wouldn't expect a whole lot of newcomers. Just the two veterans everyone is clamoring for and the newcomers from very recent installments of XenoBlade and Pokemon.

I would also like to see Pichu and Paper Mario, but that's just wishful thinking for me.

I really can't see any of the 7th generation Pokemon getting the playable treatment, but they could always be implemented as Poke Ball Pokemon. For some Poke Ball Pokemon inputs...

1. Rowlet: Uses Leafage to damage opponents.
2. Litten: Spits out Ember to damage opponents.
3. Popplio: Uses Bubble Beam to damage opponents.
4. Charjabug: Powers up the fighter who released it. The fighter's attacks will deal 1.15x more damage than normal until Charjabug leaves.
5. Rockruff: Uses Rock Tomb to damage opponents and temporarily decrease their overall mobility.
6. Wishiwashi: If released, it'll try to call for backup. If it fails, then it does nothing. If it succeeds, however, then the School Form will appear and deliver a powerful Hydro Pump that has high knockback, and can send opponents flying at low angles.
7. Bewear: It'll attack opponents with Hammer Arm. The attack's knockback is so powerful that it can 1-hit KO even metallic fighters, making Bewear extremely dangerous for any opposing fighter.
8. Tsareena: It'll use Trop Kick on opponents. The attack has meteor smash properties, and can even bury opponents who are on the ground.
9. Comfey: When released, it'll use Floral Healing on the fighter who released it. The fighter's current damage will be cut in half. In a stamina match, the move heals half of the fighter's maximum HP instead.
10. Togedemaru: Attacks opponents with Zing Zap. The attack briefly stuns opponents before sending them flying.
11. Cosmog: Does nothing but splash around.
12. Solgaleo: Attacks opponents with Sunsteel Strike. The attack has high knockback.
13. Lunala: Attacks opponents with Moongeist Beam. The attack has high knockback.
14. Magearna: Attacks opponents with Fleur Cannon. The attack's knockback is not only high, but it also negates all weight boosting properties of the Super Mushroom and Metal Box.

I don't know. Decidueye is one badass Pokemon who has become increasingly popular since the release of Sun & Moon. Having a Grass starter as well as a Ghost Pokemon would be great. Decidueye has a lot of move set potential.

And he's an archer too.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't see any other third parties to add besides the major stretches which are the ones from currently represented IPs.

• Snake
• Simon
• The indies you mentioned.
• Phoenix Wright
• Professor Layton
• Heihachi
• Llyord Irving
• Banjo Kazooie

There are a lot we can add.

As for the IPs you mentioned. I would like to see Dixie & Toon Zelda. Both of which I have in the roster I didn't show. But, realistically I wouldn't expect a whole lot of newcomers. Just the two veterans everyone is clamoring for and the newcomers from very recent installments of XenoBlade and Pokemon.

Why Xenoblade and Pokemon?

I would also like to see Pichu and Paper Mario, but that's just wishful thinking for me.

I actually want all the character you listed and more, but I just disagree on what will happen.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

• Snake
• Simon
• The indies you mentioned.
• Phoenix Wright
• Professor Layton
• Heihachi
• Llyord Irving
• Banjo Kazooie

If Simon Belmont made it in, he could be the first character to have eight aerial attacks. (Using his whip diagonally)

Why Xenoblade and Pokemon?

What do you mean? Why wouldn't we get characters from those?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

If Simon Belmont made it in, he could be the first character to have eight aerial attacks. (Using his whip diagonally)



What do you mean? Why wouldn't we get characters from those?

I just feel betting on characters from those series is iffy.

Other characters would be bigger priorities methinks.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I just feel betting on characters from those series is iffy.

Other characters would be bigger priorities methinks.

I feel like those are best bets. I think the whole point of adding characters in a Smash port would be to add the ones that just didn't make it in time because Smash had already started development.

That would be like being iffy on Corrin's inclusion. I think unless a newcomer is a veteran, third-party, or a recent character, they should be saved for a brand new Smash game. I'm not saying that because I think there's a pattern, I just think that would make the most sense. Especially since people would be expecting those characters to return in the next installments, but with extra third-parties or recent additions, it would be understandable if they didn't return. Best not to add characters that would be expected indefinitely to return. That adds too many veterans to recreate in the next installment and less time for actual newcomers. And in turn, what would normally be accepted as a newcomer, no longer could be.

I seriously doubt there is going to be many newcomers. If there are any they would probably just be the characters from the new installments of existing IPs. Like Corrin was. Those would be the highest priorities of all.

I just think they are gonna make the roster feel more complete for the time in which it is released. Focus more on bonuses. I don't think we're having a wishlist extravaganza with King K. Rool, Waluigi, and Tails.

As a matter of fact, I don't even think there are many characters TO add. It seems at this point we have everyone we need except the newer characters and missing veterans.

 

[N3ON]

I feel betting on any new character that isn't Inkling is iffy.

But Pokemon is Pokemon and has a new gen. If GF wants a new character in Smash they'll get a new character. If they don't care, we probably won't get one.

And Xenoblade keeps showing up. As much in ports as in original titles. But if Nintendo wants to pull a Corrin, at least Elma has more popularity than he did. I wouldn't have agreed with her being on the list when you first posted it, but now with the potential port, I would understand the reasoning behind her addition if it were to happen. Though I think getting a new Pokemon is more likely.

In any case I could see them happening. Then again I could see a lot of potential characters happening, or none at all, because where we go from here is basically uncharted territory. Look what happened when we tried to predict DLC. I'm not gonna bank on any characters. Maybe just Ice Climbers. And to a lesser extent Inkling. And to an even lesser extent Wolf. After that who knows.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I feel betting on any new character that isn't Inkling is iffy.

But Pokemon is Pokemon and has a new gen. If GF wants a new character in Smash they'll get a new character. If they don't care, we probably won't get one.

And Xenoblade keeps showing up. As much in ports as in original titles. But if Nintendo wants to pull a Corrin, at least Elma has more popularity than he did. I wouldn't have agreed with her being on the list when you first posted it, but now with the potential port, I would understand the reasoning behind her addition if it were to happen. Though I think getting a new Pokemon is more likely.

In any case I could see them happening. Then again I could see a lot of potential characters happening, or none at all, because where we go from here is basically uncharted territory. Look what happened when we tried to predict DLC. I'm not gonna bank on any characters. Maybe just Ice Climbers. And to a lesser extent Inkling. And to an even lesser extent Wolf. After that who knows.

The only reason I'm banking on characters is because I see no reason why they wouldn't add Decidueye or Inkling if they added anyone at all. I also wouldn't get my hopes up with Wolf, but Ice Climbers would make a lot of sense.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

I feel betting on any new character that isn't Inkling is iffy.

But Pokemon is Pokemon and has a new gen. If GF wants a new character in Smash they'll get a new character. If they don't care, we probably won't get one.

And Xenoblade keeps showing up. As much in ports as in original titles. But if Nintendo wants to pull a Corrin, at least Elma has more popularity than he did. I wouldn't have agreed with her being on the list when you first posted it, but now with the potential port, I would understand the reasoning behind her addition if it were to happen. Though I think getting a new Pokemon is more likely.

In any case I could see them happening. Then again I could see a lot of potential characters happening, or none at all, because where we go from here is basically uncharted territory. Look what happened when we tried to predict DLC. I'm not gonna bank on any characters. Maybe just Ice Climbers. And to a lesser extent Inkling. And to an even lesser extent Wolf. After that who knows.

There's not just the port, but Monolith is still working on a new project for the Switch since the port is being handled by outside sources according to Laura.

However, we still don't know whether it would be a direct sequel to Xenoblade X or a brand new IP altogether. Elma is getting a bit too lucky this gen either way.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I also wouldn't get my hopes up with Wolf, but Ice Climbers would make a lot of sense.

If they're adding Ice Climbers, they might as well add Wolf considering he takes about half the time.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If they're adding Ice Climbers, they might as well add Wolf considering he takes about half the time.

Never mind they're the most popular cut characters(besides Snake) that is feasible.

The only reason I can see IC's still gone is they can't balance 'em right. But with chain grabbing gone, I can't see them being a problem at all, although they may not be very good overall compared to previous games.

Wolf has no reason to be left out at this point. He has a lot of demand, there's more than enough time, and he can use his old design from Brawl like Fox/Falco are, or have a new design based upon Zero's. The moveset is still fully there, since the data from Brawl itself was used to make some characters.

Likewise, this means IC's shouldn't be hard to finish(assuming balance issues don't come up). Worst I could see happening for IC's is that they can't be used in 8 Player Smash.

 

[N3ON]

The only reason I'm banking on characters is because I see no reason why they wouldn't add Decidueye or Inkling if they added anyone at all. I also wouldn't get my hopes up with Wolf, but Ice Climbers would make a lot of sense.

I don't see why they would add Decidueye unless it was promotion-based, in which case the impetus would come from GF.

There's not just the port, but Monolith is still working on a new project for the Switch since the port is being handled by outside sources according to Laura.

However, we still don't know whether it would be a direct sequel to Xenoblade X or a brand new IP altogether. Elma is getting a bit too lucky this gen either way.

Well it being a direct sequel to XCX would be the only outcome that would really benefit Elma specifically, but either way it's probably too early for that game to really effect anything anyway, I'm hearing it'll be a 2018 title at the earliest.

That said I don't expect Elma, and I don't think overly likely, but, as opposed to prior to this port, I do think she's a contender. Just one of many.

If they're adding Ice Climbers, they might as well add Wolf considering he takes about half the time.

Never mind they're the most popular cut characters(besides Snake) that is feasible.

The only reason I can see IC's still gone is they can't balance 'em right. But with chain grabbing gone, I can't see them being a problem at all, although they may not be very good overall compared to previous games.

Wolf has no reason to be left out at this point. He has a lot of demand, there's more than enough time, and he can use his old design from Brawl like Fox/Falco are, or have a new design based upon Zero's. The moveset is still fully there, since the data from Brawl itself was used to make some characters.

Likewise, this means IC's shouldn't be hard to finish(assuming balance issues don't come up). Worst I could see happening for IC's is that they can't be used in 8 Player Smash.

It makes sense to add Wolf, but it also made sense to add him to DLC, and they didn't do that. There's no guarantee whatever kept him from inclusion then won't be a factor now. I wouldn't be surprised to see him, but we already cried wolf a couple times before to little avail.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It makes sense to add Wolf, but it also made sense to add him to DLC, and they didn't do that. There's no guarantee whatever kept him from inclusion then won't be a factor now. I wouldn't be surprised to see him, but we already cried wolf a couple times before to little avail.

Bad pun aside, the fact that Star Fox Zero kept getting pushed back is probably why Wolf didn't show up(if it did get released on time, he'd probably be among DLC or the original regular cast). This is no longer an issue this time around. He's far more likely now that the only thing keeping him away is gone.

Likewise, Sakurai did say he had a very specific set of reasons for what vets he chose. He can do similar things again, one Melee, one Brawl vet, if he wanted to(or Bamco can set it up that way. We know little about the development or even who is in charge of Smash Switch outside of a rumor), that is.

This is also a different situation from Smash 4. Two of the most popular cut vets are being called out for being gone. Despite the logical reasons for both not being there this time, that doesn't matter to many fans. However, neither reason really is relevant anymore. It's a game that is going to be released quite a long time from now. There's no 3DS version. The key reason for IC's being gone is irrelevant. Wolf's latest game entry is out. He's still being called out as a horrid cut. They know people heavily want him back(some of it due to being a fairly unique character, others cause he was popular in general, and some cause they're Star Fox fans. Many reasons overall, and probably others I didn't think of).

If not clear, I think both are very likely to come back due to what I said, but that's assuming it's an enhanced port. If it's an all new game, this stuff doesn't matter either.