Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[NintenRob]

If any third party franchise gets a second character, I think its Bayonetta

Simply because it's in that weird position of also being Nintendo somewhat.



Either way, someone should make support group for Rodin

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Bayonetta has one game exclusive on Nintendo consoles, and suddenly it's virtually a Nintendo franchise?

 

[Delzethin]

Rodin for Smash? Yes pls. #Bayonetta2 #NintendoSwitch pic.twitter.com/tz3DJ8r8eg

— Liam (@liamrobertson.bsky) (@Doctor_Cupcakes) February 17, 2018

Rodin confirmed.

Jokes aside, it's hard to say whether this really is a tease toward an Rodin Assist Trophy or just the writers having a little fun. It doesn't tell us enough on its own, so we're best off not trying to extrapolate from it.

 

[Deleted member]

Bayonetta has one game exclusive on Nintendo consoles, and suddenly it's virtually a Nintendo franchise?

Soon to be two exclusive games, both of which Nintendo funded.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Jokes aside, it's hard to say whether this really is a tease toward an Rodin Assist Trophy or just the writers having a little fun. It doesn't tell us enough on its own, so we're best off not trying to extrapolate from it.

It's just wishful fun from Platinum.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Soon to be two exclusive games, both of which Nintendo funded.

That's cool.

Still, there were lots of second parties on other Nintendo consoles, and I don't recall hearing about it so much.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

If Pichu comes back, I'd love to see "rest" as his Final Smash. It just regains all his health.That'd be hilarious. I love Pichu.

 

[TheWill44]

If Pichu comes back, I'd love to see "rest" as his Final Smash. It just regains all his health or give him negative health. That'd be hilarious. I love Pichu.

There should be a negative health mode. Reminds me of a buggy fan game I played where you could pay 3.99 to remove 50% one time per match (more pay2win than sm4sh) and people used it before the match started and they had “-50%” percent, which worked like they had 50%, except it knocked them in the opposite direction. This feature was broken too, as once it got to “-1%” it couldn’t go to 0% for some reason. This bug messed tiers up all together.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

That's cool.

Still, there were lots of second parties on other Nintendo consoles, and I don't recall hearing about it so much.

“Second Parties” don’t actually exist. There’s just no such thing.

However, I do get what you mean and it’s actually easy to see why Bayonetta got in over someone from Geist or Eternal Darkness. Technically the closest thing there is to a “second party” franchise is Pokemon and, well, there’s plenty of those ****ers in Smash.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

“Second Parties” don’t actually exist. There’s just no such thing.

You're right. Bayonetta is actually third party.

 

[Opossum]

“Second Parties” don’t actually exist. There’s just no such thing.

However, I do get what you mean and it’s actually easy to see why Bayonetta got in over someone from Geist or Eternal Darkness. Technically the closest thing there is to a “second party” franchise is Pokemon and, well, there’s plenty of those ****ers in Smash.

Funny enough, of all series, The Legendary Starfy is also in the same position as Pokémon, if I remember correctly. TOSE is a third party licensed game company a la Platinum Games in that they don't own the IP they work on for other companies...with the sole exception of Starfy. Nintendo and TOSE co-own it.

Just a fun fact.

 

[Deleted member]

Second-parties are a bit strange to consider. Yes, you can apply it to the fact that they are made by companies not made by Nintendo or HAL but supported by it ( mainly Pokemon ). They are still considered a Nintendo character and I would say that they are fine. The only groups are Nintendo characters and third parties in Smash for Switch.

 

[Bowserlick]

Waddle Dee won a twitter poll. Now see how unique he can be. GO!

THE OFFICIAL UNIQUENESS CRITERIA
These questions are optional, but it can really help you on delving into every area
of the certain character's uniqueness. Totally recommended to answer them in the
best way possible.

1. How many diverse options does this character have?

2. Is their moves or abilities diverse from the rest of the Smash cast?

3. Has the concept of the character been done before?

3a. If it has been done before, is the character's way of doing it unique on it's own.

4. Does the character's abilities and moves provide enough to be entertaining?

5. How visually different is the character in terms of body shape and looks?

6. Does the moves and abilities fit the character well enough?

 

[NintenRob]

THE OFFICIAL UNIQUENESS CRITERIA
These questions are optional, but it can really help you on delving into every area
of the certain character's uniqueness. Totally recommended to answer them in the
best way possible.

1. How many diverse options does this character have?

Bandana Dee has used both a Spear and a Parasol. Spear could also use moves from Stick without it being out of the blue. And if that's not enough, he could also burrow a beam wand from his Waddle Doo cousins.

2. Is their moves or abilities diverse from the rest of the Smash cast?

We've never had a spear or parasol wielder and he would definitely bring something different to other spear wielders. How many spear masters can use a spear to fly like a helicopter?

3. Has the concept of the character been done before?

Nope

3a. If it has been done before, is the character's way of doing it unique on it's own.

4. Does the character's abilities and moves provide enough to be entertaining?

People love the helicopter. People love spear

5. How visually different is the character in terms of body shape and looks?

Well, his shape is basically the same as Kirby

6. Does the moves and abilities fit the character well enough?

Well, spear and parasol are things he's actually used.

 

[Deleted member]

These are my guesses, in order from most likely to least likely.

- Inkling, from Splatoon
- Ice Climbers, from Ice Climber
- King K. Rool, from Donkey Kong Country
- Wolf, from Star Fox
- Decidueye, from Pokémon Sun/Moon
- Spring Man, from ARMS
- Rex & Pyra, from Xenoblade Chronicles 2
- Rayman, from Rayman

Decidueye is more likely than Spring Man? Wut?

 

[Roberto zampari]

Tails might be a semi-clone of Sonic and his final smash might be similar of Zero Suit Samus (a.k.a. Tornado).
Can Tornado shoot things at the enemies?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Tails might be a semi-clone of Sonic and his final smash might be similar of Zero Suit Samus (a.k.a. Tornado).
Can Tornado shoot things at the enemies?

Yeah, see the Adventure games.

 

[Roberto zampari]

Yeah, Tails is an inventor...
Build things and can pilot the Tornado.

I feel that Knuckles and Shadow are more Sonic's clones than Tails.

 

[Deleted member]

Tails discussion? I love Tails, but none of the movesets I saw for him clicked on me.
I think Eggman is the best choice for a second Sonic rep.
He's arguably just as iconic as Tails is, but he's been in more games (And played more important roles in every single one of them) and he wouldn't be anything like Sonic in terms of moveset since, y'know, he has a mech.

Also, Mario and Sonic vs Bowser and Eggman sounds pretty great.

 

[Roberto zampari]

Eggman is more suitable as a boss fight (like the ones from Subspace Emissary) than a fighter.
Allow me explain why...

Eggman build things like Egg Dragoon, Egg Nega Wisp and the Death Egg Robots.
Does not compute this.

Eggman is not suitable like a fighter.

 

[Deleted member]

Eggman is more suitable as a boss fight (like the ones from Subspace Emissary) than a fighter.
Allow me explain why...

Eggman build things like Egg Dragoon, Egg Nega Wisp and the Death Egg Robots.
Does not compute this.

Eggman is not suitable like a fighter.

This is literally not a good reason.
Eggman has plenty of workable mechs, like the Egg walker in the above picture.
He can use the Egg Dragoon or the Death Egg Robot for his final smash.

 

[Roberto zampari]

This is literally not a good explanation.
Eggman has plenty of workable mechs, like the Egg walker in the above picture.

And the "not a fighter" arguement? In 2018? Really?

Seriously, I'm not thinking in a cool moveset for Dr. Eggman in a Egg Walker.
Do you have ideas?

 

[Deleted member]

I'm not thinking in a cool moveset for Dr. Eggman in a Egg Walker.

That's because you're not thinking creatively.
He can pull stuff from his other boss fights and use them in the Egg Walker. For example, he could use the ball and chain for a forward Smash.

 

[Roberto zampari]

And about the Megaman's new design from Megaman 11?
Do you think that the Megaman's new illustrator took inspiration from Smash Bros?
I hope that in the next Smash Bros, they make Megaman taller.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Eggman's been playable in Sonic the Fighters iirc, that could work as he had a robot then too

 

[Megadoomer]

Seriously, I'm not thinking in a cool moveset for Dr. Eggman in a Egg Walker.
Do you have ideas?

Eggman uses his Eggmobile for many boss fights in Sonic games, and his Egg Walker is that vehicle with legs. Sonic 2 alone has him using electricity, drills, hammers, flamethrowers, lasers, and more with that vehicle; I'm sure they'd be able to come up with plenty of material for moves.

 

[Cosmic77]

Eggman has the moveset potential, but there are about three or four Sonic characters I can think of that should realistically be a higher priority. Not saying he wouldn't work, but I doubt he'd get in before Tails or Shadow.

 

[Deleted member]

Eggman has the moveset potential, but there are about three or four Sonic characters I can think of that should realistically be a higher priority. Not saying he wouldn't work, but I doubt he'd get in before Tails or Shadow.

I read this many times and I still don't understand why the main villain would have less priority than 4 characters in a 3rd party series, especially since Sakurai usually looks for unique characters.

 

[Roberto zampari]

Then Dr. Eggman is like Bowser Jr. Clone.
Am i right?

 

[Deleted member]

Then Dr. Eggman is like Bowser Jr. Clone.
Am i right?

Just because they both use mechs doesn't mean they'd be clones of each other.
Eggman's mech is different and he has different tools.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I think Impa would work as a costume or Lucina-esque clone of Sheik, seeing as that's who taught Sheik to fight like a Sheikah. Don't tell Diddy Kong I said that.

Hoo boy. You don't know what you've just done.

I'd recommend everyone seeking shelter. This is the calm before the storm.

No actually, I'd be content with it. Anything is better than nothing.

 

[TheWill44]

If Bowser Jr. gets a knockoff Egg-Mobile, why doesn’t Dr. Eggman get the actual one in smash?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

So much like how Mario Kart 8 is canon to Breath of the Wild, Smash 4 is canon to Bayonetta.

That's neat.

 

[Freduardo]

I read this many times and I still don't understand why the main villain would have less priority than 4 characters in a 3rd party series, especially since Sakurai usually looks for unique characters.

Because we got Luigi before Bowser. We got Zelda, Sheik, And Young Link at the same time we got ganondorf. Diddy before K Rool. Meta Knight and Dedede are both sidekicks and villains. Falco before Andross. Lucas before Porky. Zero suit before any villain. Palutena and dark pit before Medusa or hades.

I don’t agree with the practice but you tend to get playable characters and sidekicks before villains. And while you can play as eggman (Adventure 2, Sonic the Fighters) that just means he’s playable less often than Cream the Rabbit and Blaze the Cat.

Personally if it were up to me I’d go with knuckles or Tails. I feel either would have a different move set to Sonic. Knuckles’ punches, gliding, climbing, and digging and Tails’ tail whips and spins and inventions. And neither really do the homing attack thing Sonic does. Maybe if they made Metal Sonic they could keep it to extremely direct clone.

But if they go with Knuckles you can do an eight player battle of all Knuckles teams and call it knuckles & Knuckes.

 

[Deleted member]

Because we got Luigi before Bowser. We got Zelda, Sheik, And Young Link at the same time we got ganondorf. Diddy before K Rool. Meta Knight and Dedede are both sidekicks and villains. Falco before Andross. Lucas before Porky. Zero suit before any villain. Palutena and dark pit before Medusa or hades.

I don’t agree with the practice but you tend to get playable characters and sidekicks before villains. And while you can play as eggman (Adventure 2, Sonic the Fighters) that just means he’s playable less often than Cream the Rabbit and Blaze the Cat.

Personally if it were up to me I’d go with knuckles or Tails. I feel either would have a different move set to Sonic. Knuckles’ punches, gliding, climbing, and digging and Tails’ tail whips and spins and inventions. And neither really do the homing attack thing Sonic does. Maybe if they made Metal Sonic they could keep it to extremely direct clone.

I get that, but cosmic said four.
Sonic has a sidekick & Knuckles. That's 2 characters, one of which wasn't mentioned at all.
Also I cannot figure out who was the 4th character he was referring to. Tails, Knuckles, Shadow....
The only Sonic characters that are viewed as actual contenders that have a shot are Eggman and the ones I've mentioned above.

 

[UserKev]

I threw an interesting twist on Eggman in his support thread. He could just walk on his own two feet while wearing a high tech back attachment device that work like Inspector Gadget with a variety of high tech weapons installed into it. Like the drills from Bowser Jr. forward A Smash and have his legendary run and jump from Sonic 2.

I admit to falling to specific the first time I made it but, its actually very Eggman.

 

[Freduardo]

I get that, but cosmic said four.
Sonic has a sidekick & Knuckles. That's 2 characters, one of which wasn't mentioned at all.
Also I cannot figure out who was the 4th character he was referring to. Tails, Knuckles, Shadow....
The only Sonic characters that are viewed as actual contenders that have a shot are Eggman and the ones I've mentioned above.

Hmm... the fourth could be Silver? Blaze? Rouge? Amy? Cream? Gamma? Chaos? Big? Espio? Knack/Fang? Zazz? One of the egg generals from Mania? Metal Sonic?

I guess of all of those, Amy makes the most sense? Or Metal Sonic if you’re going very clone like.

Of these I’d probably support Metal the most.

Metal Knuckles? Just to curveball it? Metal Espio!

Support Metal Espio for Smash?

 

[Deleted member]

Hmm... the fourth could be Silver? Blaze? Rouge? Amy? Cream? Gamma? Chaos? Big? Espio? Knack/Fang? Zazz? One of the egg generals from Mania? Metal Sonic?

I guess of all of those, Amy makes the most sense? Or Metal Sonic if you’re going very clone like.

Of these I’d probably support Metal the most.

Metal Knuckles? Just to curveball it? Metal Espio!

Support Metal Espio for Smash?

My point was that none of them make sense to be prioritized over Eggman.
But yeah Metal Espio for Smash.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Decidueye is more likely than Spring Man? Wut?

It's simple. Between ARMS and Pokemon, which is the more popular franchise?

ARMS did okay in sales but really nothing special. Pokemon, especially Sun and Moon, sold extremely well. In addition, Decidueye has a much easier and more diverse moveset at his disposal as opposed to Spring Man.

 

[Deleted member]

It's simple. Between ARMS and Pokemon, which is the more popular franchise?

ARMS did okay in sales but really nothing special. Pokemon, especially Sun and Moon, sold extremely well. In addition, Decidueye has a much easier and more diverse moveset at his disposal as opposed to Spring Man.

Even without Gen 8 coming out soon, Decidueye faces some stiff competition from Gen 7. Loathe as I am to say it, it doesn't really have much going for it aside from Pokken and its uniqueness.
Plus I'm pretty sure a new IP would have a higher priority.