Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Chrono.]

Jeanne has actually been one of my pics since before the first Octoling trailer. I imagine her as being like Bayo, but with more damage and knockback at the cost of not being able to use witch time.

"We regret to inform you that Jeanne is now banned from tournaments."

 

[Idon]

"We regret to inform you that Jeanne is now banned from tournaments."

"We do not regret to inform you that Smash Ultimate has been removed from EVO and Melee will continue on for another 17 years."

 

[StormC]

So, who's gonna be the supposed "locked in" character that we all think will make it in, only to not be playable? Cause last time it was Ridley, but the boy made it in.

Skull Kid feels like Chorus Kids 2.0. A character heavily speculated based on a single leak with tons of bandwagoning (Skull Kid is currently the most voted character on Reddit) and then the rug is pulled out from under the fanbase when he isn't in.

I'm also worried about Bandana Dee. His support in the west was only moderate at the time of the ballot compared to now (where he's regularly in the top 10), so it's pretty much up to Japan to save the day and get him in on sheer numbers.

 

[staindgrey]

Hmmm that is an interesting situation that I feel like Geno is placed on this pedestal beside Ridley and King K Rool for characters fans have wanted for decades, but at the end of the day I feel like more people on here would be dissapointed of Skull Kids deconfirm. I for one would be surprised Geno didn't make it in but wouldn't care, Skull Kid I actually want. And to go with that I feel most casual players would be wayyyy more excited for Skull Kid since they might actually recognize him.

Alright now I'll be pissed of Geno gets in but not Skull Kid lol.

More people would be disappointed because more people have experienced Majora's Mask.

The thing about nostalgia is it brings about bandwagoners who want to feel like they're "part of the club". I've encountered it so many times when an old game/cartoon/movie/comic/whatever is brought up, and someone gets extremely excited, saying, "OH, MAN, ME TOO," only to reveal shortly after that that he really doesn't know much about the topic-- or in many cases, hasn't ever played the game in question.

Super Mario RPG was on the SNES in 1996 and sold an impressive 2 million copies. But Majora's Mask released in 2000, sold nearly 3.5 million copies, and then was rereleased on the 3DS recently to the tune of 2 million more copies. Skull Kid has also been prominent in other ways, such as getting his own Nintendo-licensed figure, being a playable character in Hyrule Warriors, etc. while Geno, to my knowledge, has been more or less relegated to history, and relies on people who actually remember his game from 22 years ago, while the character Skull Kid is not only more recent, but has also been reacquainted with newer fans multiple times.

The short of it: the younger fans know who Skull Kid is, and pretend to know who Geno is.

 

[Deleted member]

My guess is they wanted to further differentiate 's and 's appearances as 's helmet looks a lot like the one wears in Samus Returns, and thus they kept the Other M design.

I'd also add to this that it made the occasion to fix that PTSD scene in Other M as well.

 

[Chrono.]

"We do not regret to inform you that Smash Ultimate has been removed from EVO and Melee will continue on for another 17 years."

Fighting games come and go but 20XX is forever.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

So, who's gonna be the supposed "locked in" character that we all think will make it in, only to not be playable? Cause last time it was Ridley, but the boy made it in.

Biggest one I think is Geno, but pretty well anyone could be up for that.

Geno's got a lot of support in the Smash speculation scene, but not much among casuals - it's one of the problems from being a side character in a 22-year old spinoff. Thus, he'd be incredibly obscure to anyone who doesn't know SMRPG...which is pretty well anyone under 25 who doesn't hang out on gaming forums. I could easily see Geno getting an assist in Ultimate to start bringing him back into relevance and keeping the Mii costume.

Isaac and Dee both seemingly have a lot of support from the West and East respectively, but we also considered Ashley a lock due to her popularity.

The hardest one would be Skull Kid. Yeah, there's been noise about him before, but he started to gain a lot of traction after his assist was absent at E3, and then especially after the Moon showed up a few weeks ago. Otherwise, Zelda's 'next rep' has been a complete toss-up, so individual characters probably haven't gotten much support. It seems that Skull Kid's fanbase balloned very big very fast, and could pop just as easily. Add that to the fact that Zelda's not gotten a unique moveset since Melee, and we're looking at a lot of salt if the Zelda series is passed over again. I don't even think a Zelda echo would sate people for long.

 

[StormC]

No Zelda newcomer will be the next "we need a DK rep" if it gets passed over again.

 

[Blue7113]

Was Ashley popular during the ballot days? Just a question because I don’t remember seeing her that often

 

[StormC]

Was Ashley popular during the ballot days? Just a question because I don’t remember seeing her that often

Not really. She had pretty small support already, and being in AT hell didn't do her any favors.

To put things in perspective, the Ashley thread on SmashBoards had ~5 pages before E3, and then it quickly gained over 100 pages in the next 2 months.

I think her absence from E3 made a lot of people hopeful and curious, and support ballooned from there. (Sorry Ashley fans.)

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

So, who's gonna be the supposed "locked in" character that we all think will make it in, only to not be playable? Cause last time it was Ridley, but the boy made it in.

Probably Either Skull Kid, Bandana Dee or Geno. in my mind.

i have no faith in my own character picks.

 

[Deleted member]

Was Ashley popular during the ballot days? Just a question because I don’t remember seeing her that often

As someone who had her in his top 5 character wishlist, I kiiiiiinda think her popularity is exaggerated. There isn't really any clear data besides online polls (which are IMO never a good indicator of actual popularity) that tell us one way or the other. She got brought up once or twice because of Source Gaming, but that's about it. From what I saw, she wasn't on the same level as characters like K. Rool, Ridley, Geno or Bandana Dee in discussion. She may have been close to Isaac's level of requests, but even saying that may be pushing it.

 

[Honest Slug]

I feel like Skull Kid might not be a guarantee. Skull Kid is one of those characters that I don't see tons of active support for. While there's a lot of people that would be happy for his inclusion, I haven't seen much active campaigning for him as some other characters. Plus much of the evidence so far from rock solid and a bit flimsy. I still think he's fairly likely, but perhaps not a lock like some are saying.

I still think Geno's getting in and is almost a lock. Maybe I'm biased but most of the things that go against Geno also applied to King K Rool and he's now in. Geno's costume even got special splash art which not even King K Rool got and Veggie Man only furthers his possibilities.

Bandanna Dee is a weird one. Everything about him seems to point to his inclusion, but my gut is just telling me no. I don't know why but I just don't have much faith in him for some reason. Considering how conservative Sakurai is with picking Kirby characters, I could him skipping on Bandanna Dee with not a ton of newcomers and focus on ones from other franchises. With that said Bandanna Dee is relevant so even if he doesn't make the base roster being a DLC tie-in to a new Kirby game is always possible.

 

[Awesomeperson159]

Alright guys, I've got a game:

Add 5 of the worst newcomers you can think of, especially if you know they would upset other people

Goku (DBZ)
Freddy Fazbear (FNAF)
Tracer (Overwatch)
Sans (Undertale- sorry Sans fans)
Bubsy (Bubsy)

5. Goku (DBZ)
4. Homer Simpson (the Simpsons)
3. Mr. Incredible (The Incredibles)
2. Snow White and the Seven Dwarves (Disney)
1. Toucan Sam (Fruit Loops)

I think these fourth parties would really take away from the game.

EDIT: oops I forgot Shrek

 

[StormC]

Any character with an active role in the game was already crippled severely on the ballot. Only already popular characters like Waluigi and Ridley probably had any chance of scoring decently. Characters like Chrom and Dark Samus can do not-so-great and get added as echoes.

Mid-level characters like Ashley and Skull Kid fell off the map during the ballot.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd still be laughing at the idea of Geno if it wasm't for the fact Sakurai outright stated he wanted him in and the guy got a Mii costume. The only thing preventing him is Square saying no to him, which I wouldn't be surprised because, generally, you don't want to advertise a character from one game from god knows how many years ago that's in no way relevant to the company nowadays. Sakurai would have to make a good ass deal to get him in.

 

[AlphaSSB]

Not really. She had pretty small support already, and being in AT hell didn't do her any favors.

Any character with an active role in the game was already crippled severely on the ballot. Only already popular characters like Waluigi and Ridley probably had any chance of scoring decently. Characters like Chrom and Dark Samus can do not-so-great and get added as echoes.

Mid-level characters like Ashley and Skull Kid fell off the map during the ballot.

That's one reason why I wish that they had done the ballot after Smash 4's DLC was finished. I'm sure many people didn't vote for their true favorites, like Ashley and Ridley, because they were deconfirmed in Smash 4, and felt that they wouldn't make it with Smash 4' DLC regardless. These characters may not have recieved as many votes as they could've.

Granted, nothing specifically said that you couldn't vote for deconfirmed characters, but I'm sure many just assumed due that it'd be used primarily for Smash 4's DLC. Thus, thinking it'd be useless to vote for deconfirmed characters.

 

[Deleted member]

<snip> because you had an awful lot there...

Ah, right. I totally forgot that he was seen as a Pokeball already. Darn....I really liked that idea for a trailer lol. Well, I've still got hopes of Golisopod, Tapu Koko, or one of the Ultra Beasts. Incineroar's chances are still fairly good, and I'd be fine with him, but I'd prefer one of the others I mentioned.

 

[Deleted member]

Skull Kid kinda feels like a bandwagon character to me. Like, his popularity and requests soared overnight after Loz's claims. I pretty much saw nothing for him at all before that, and I don't remember anyone mentioning him back during the ballot days either.

Which is a shame, because Skull Kid would be sick. He's on my long list of Smash pipe-dreams I know will never come true; right there with Paper Mario and Midna.

 

[StormC]

That's one reason why I wish that they had done the ballot after Smash 4's DLC was finished. I'm sure many people didn't vote for their true favorites, like Ashley and Ridley, because they were deconfirmed in Smash 4, and felt that they wouldn't make it with Smash 4' DLC regardless. These characters may not have recieved as many votes as they could've.

Granted, nothing specifically said that you couldn't vote for deconfirmed characters, but I'm sure many just assumed due that it'd be used primarily for Smash 4's DLC. Thus, thinking it'd be useless to vote for deconfirmed characters.

Yeah, it sucks. The ballot was designed to make us think we might be able to impact things in the short term when it was really designed for the long con.

From a marketing standpoint it makes sense. If people think they might see their favorite character in 6 months as opposed to 5+ years (given that we had no idea when the next Smash would be), they're going to be a lot more passionate and active on the ballot. But it just sucks how it all shook out.

Even as someone who got the character he voted for, it feels like we only had a 6 month window to determine the future of Smash for years to come.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I'd still be laughing at the idea of Geno if it wasm't for the fact Sakurai outright stated he wanted him in and the guy got a Mii costume. The only thing preventing him is Square saying no to him, which I wouldn't be surprised because, generally, you don't want to advertise a character from one game from god knows how many years ago that's in no way relevant to the company nowadays. Sakurai would have to make a good *** deal to get him in.

If Square let him get a mii costume I don't see how getting him in as a character would be any different from a negotiations perspective. I mean, the same argument could apply to the costume. Why make a Geno mii costume when you could make one for someone more popular like Tifa or relevant or Agnes?

 

[Deleted member]

I'd still be laughing at the idea of Geno if it wasm't for the fact Sakurai outright stated he wanted him in and the guy got a Mii costume. The only thing preventing him is Square saying no to him, which I wouldn't be surprised because, generally, you don't want to advertise a character from one game from god knows how many years ago that's in no way relevant to the company nowadays. Sakurai would have to make a good *** deal to get him in.

Why would Square be bothered by that? People like Super Mario RPG, it's not like they'd be bringing attention to a failed game or something.

 

[Mc.Rad]

Alright guys, I've got a game:

Add 5 of the worst newcomers you can think of, especially if you know they would upset other people

Goku (DBZ)
Freddy Fazbear (FNAF)
Tracer (Overwatch)
Sans (Undertale- sorry Sans fans)
Bubsy (Bubsy)

The Vulture from Super Mario 64
A "New" Fire Emblem character that's just Marth but with Green hair
Wrinkly Kong (DKC)
That really buff guy from Battleborn
Tennis Spectator Mario (Mario Tennis 64)

 

[Opossum]

I mean, if people didn't vote for their favorite, they only have themselves to blame. "A character with an existing role can't be upgraded" was always a dumb fan rule and it never stopped me from voting for Chrom multiple times.

 

[Knight Dude]

10 Echoes? Another 10 seems like a bit much, but whatever. I'll play along.

: Ken or Akuma
: Protoman or Bass or Roll
: Glass Joe or Bald Bull
: Black Shadow, with some Bull shaped aura on his punch.
: Metal Sonic
: Ms. Pac-Man
: Medusa
: Jeanne
: Mega Zard X(Charizard only)
: Impa

 

[Opossum]

A "New" Fire Emblem character that's just Marth but with Green hair

Leave Alm alone. :^(

 

[CaptainAmerica]

That's one reason why I wish that they had done the ballot after Smash 4's DLC was finished. I'm sure many people didn't vote for their true favorites, like Ashley and Ridley, because they were deconfirmed in Smash 4, and felt that they wouldn't make it with Smash 4' DLC regardless. These characters may not have recieved as many votes as they could've.

Granted, nothing specifically said that you couldn't vote for deconfirmed characters, but I'm sure many just assumed due that it'd be used primarily for Smash 4's DLC. Thus, thinking it'd be useless to vote for deconfirmed characters.

This.

I feel like since the ballot in all regions except Japan said "Who do you want for DLC?" that a lot of people thought "oh, they're ineligible since they're already an assist."

Not to mention that a lot of people even here were talking at the time about "XYZ would be cool, but they have no relation to Nintendo so I'm not gonna vote for them" At that point, Cloud wasn't announced until after the ballot, and that was the point that that rule broke the first time.

I'd love another one now that we know more about the process.

 

[T-Hell]

I don't consider any character a "lock", but I strongly believe Geno, Skull Kid and Isaac are coming this time.
And no, I don't base my opinion on Lolz or any loser that claims to know it. I base my opinion on a lot of factors, from ballot, to iconicness, to even the goddamn chairs, yes, the chairs, sue me.
I don't feel like explaining it all right now so pardon me, but I can see why Sakurai would make Skull Kid playable this time based on several factors, way more important and logical than a "Lolz". If you don't wanna buy the chairs and cushions shenannigans then don't, but I will.

 

[StormC]

I mean, if people didn't vote for their favorite, they only have themselves to blame. "A character with an existing role can't be upgraded" was always a dumb fan rule and it never stopped me from voting for Chrom multiple times.

It's human nature though. I wanted Ridley the most after K. Rool, but I thought voting for him was a waste of time. It's hard to fight the feeling that you're working against an impossible goal. After the Smash 4 interview with Sakurai about Ridley, I threw in the towel on him. That said, I'm extremely happy that there were Ridley supporters that carried on the fight and tackled the ballot anyway.

Ultimately my most wanted character didn't have an existing role, so perhaps I can't quite relate. But I feel for fans of those characters.

 

[Deleted member]

So, who's gonna be the supposed "locked in" character that we all think will make it in, only to not be playable? Cause last time it was Ridley, but the boy made it in.

Well, right now people are thinking Skull Kid, Shadow, and Geno are locked, so probably either of those. Out of those three, my bet would be Shadow, followed by Geno, then Skull Kid. I feel like Geno & Skull Kid's are fairly high (with Skull Kid's chances being highest), but Shadow is far from a shoe-in.

 

[Knight Dude]

I mean, if people didn't vote for their favorite, they only have themselves to blame. "A character with an existing role can't be upgraded" was always a dumb fan rule and it never stopped me from voting for Chrom multiple times.

Last time I voted for Ridley and Dark Samus and Isaac too shh. So didn't exactly follow that mantra.

Once again, if we get another Ballot, I'm voting Mega Man X. Because **** IT. I got nearly everyone else I wanted.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I mean, if people didn't vote for their favorite, they only have themselves to blame. "A character with an existing role can't be upgraded" was always a dumb fan rule and it never stopped me from voting for Chrom multiple times.

In all fairness, we never saw that fan rule broken in Smash 4's life span. I personally think it's possible but also very unlikely. I can't blame people for being doubtful and not wanting to waste their votes.

 

[Knight Dude]

In all fairness, we never saw that fan rule broken in Smash 4's life span. I personally think it's possible but also very unlikely. I can't blame people for being doubtful and not wanting to waste their votes.

It was also stated to be used for future games too. If I'm not mistaken.

So all of us with Big Brains voted for the characters we wanted and got like 5 popular choices in. (Ridley, KKR, Damus, Inkling and Chrome). Inkling was probably gonna happen anyhow though.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Alright guys, I've got a game:

Add 5 of the worst newcomers you can think of, especially if you know they would upset other people

Goku (DBZ)
Freddy Fazbear (FNAF)
Tracer (Overwatch)
Sans (Undertale- sorry Sans fans)
Bubsy (Bubsy)

Sweats

1. Goku
2. Steve
3. Shrek
4. Fortnite guy
5. Bubsy

(Dis)honorable mentions - Peter Griffin, Powerpuff Girls (bonus points if NuPPG), Sans I’d rather have Asgore or Mettaton tbh, Freddy Fazbear id be ok with Freddy ****boy tho cause it’s time. To inhale.

this hurt my soul thanks I hate it

 

[SebasSancy]

I'd still be laughing at the idea of Geno if it wasm't for the fact Sakurai outright stated he wanted him in and the guy got a Mii costume. The only thing preventing him is Square saying no to him, which I wouldn't be surprised because, generally, you don't want to advertise a character from one game from god knows how many years ago that's in no way relevant to the company nowadays. Sakurai would have to make a good *** deal to get him in.

If I was Square Enix, I would want in smash a character from Octopath or Bravely Default.

 

[staindgrey]

I feel like Skull Kid might not be a guarantee. Skull Kid is one of those characters that I don't see tons of active support for. While there's a lot of people that would be happy for his inclusion, I haven't seen much active campaigning for him as some other characters. Plus much of the evidence so far from rock solid and a bit flimsy. I still think he's fairly likely, but perhaps not a lock like some are saying.

Nobody's been a lock for this game aside from the Inklings. We all knew they were going to get in with the breakout success Splatoon has been.

But I'd say the next closest thing to a lock is a new Zelda rep. I just find it hard to believe that The Legend of Zelda, one of Nintendo's Big 3 (Mario, Pokemon, Zelda) would fail to receive a newcomer since since Brawl. They got costume redesigns in this game after receiving no visual changes at all in Smash 4, and Young Link is back, but... that still seems underwhelming after seeing virtually no changes since Melee, if we see Toon Link as a natural evolution of Young Link.

Whether this comes in the form of Skull Kid, a different antagonist, Impa or Midna as an echo, or anything else, I'd honestly put money down on Zelda getting a new character. It seems the safest bet of anything.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'd still be laughing at the idea of Geno if it wasm't for the fact Sakurai outright stated he wanted him in and the guy got a Mii costume. The only thing preventing him is Square saying no to him, which I wouldn't be surprised because, generally, you don't want to advertise a character from one game from god knows how many years ago that's in no way relevant to the company nowadays. Sakurai would have to make a good *** deal to get him in.

If we’re on the topic of advertising I’d really prefer the next SE rep to be Neku Sakuraba since The World Ends With You Final Remix is coming to Switch in a couple months

And I just really love TWEWY okay

 

[ZephyrZ]

It was also stated to be used for future games too. If I'm not mistaken.

So all of us with Big Brains voted for the characters we wanted and got like 5 popular choices in. (Ridley, KKR, Damus, Inkling and Chrome). Inkling was probably gonna happen anyhow though.

Now this is a fair point, although there was still a ton of doubt at the time that we'd be getting an all new Smash game, especially so soon. And then there was also a ton of people who thought 4 would at the very least be the last Smash directed by Sakurai. There was just a lot of uncertainty in general.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Who is actually going to seriously keep up with and play Smash 4 after Ultimate drops.

My guess is -100%

Hard to say right now, since not everyone has a Nintendo Switch system, and the hardware issue reports that I've heard about don't exactly help matters either.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Isn't the policies of most of these companies Sakurai and Nintendo approaching them for a character and not them going to Sakurai to get their characters in?