Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[SquashiniKun]

All this talk about "The ballot being a lie" is seriously making me worried. why don't we change the topic?

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Speaking of leak business and etc, When did the Ninka-Vaanrose leak occur for smash 4?
That was the first of the leaks from the Smash 4 era which had legitimacy (aside from the controversial but probably partially correct Gematsu leak).
IIRC the ESRB leak happened a month or so ahead of Smash 4's launch (August 19th, when the 3DS version came out September 3rd), but the Ninka-Vaanrose leak happened far earlier.

Ninka Kiwi leaked the remaining roster here sometime in July 2014, but his source (a playtester) knew of the roster before E3 2014. The ESRB leak happened over a month later.

 

[Deleted member]

Do I think it’s shady that Bayonetta was used as a supposed “top vote getter”? Yes, I do. If that wasn’t the truth then it should have just been, “Hey, check out Bayonetta!”

Pretty much the way I see it.
There was no lie as to how Bayonetta fared. It just wasn't what influenced her inclusion. And if we look back to when she was revealed....they never stated that was why she was chosen.
Just using the statistics in a "matter of fact" manner.

 

[Makai Wars]

Geno's big here there and everywhere. Probably slightly smaller in Japan though. K. Rool isn't as popular in Japan as people make him out to be, but Ashley, Reimu, and Saber are all popular over there.

PERSONALLY I'd be all for Reimu even though I've never played Touhou. The fanbase is massive, the music is amazing and the characters are extremely well designed (though maybe all the excellent fanart gives me a bias).
Like I've stated like 15 times though, I got my Ice Climbers, I got my squidkids, pretty much everything after that is a green light from me as long as it's not even more FE.

 

[MainJPW]

QUESTION

If Smash Ultimate was to have an anime-styled opening and if it had vocals in it, who do you think should be the singer?

Hironobu Kageyama.

 

[Zerp]

Cloud was never claimed to be a ballot character.

Obviously, I wasn't trying to imply that.

And I play Bayonetta and ZSS. They do not have similar moves, and their playstyles are only superficially similar. (ZSS, Bayonetta, and Meta Knight all are very good at killing off the top. Meta Knight is also not even remotely similar to ZSS or Bayonetta outside of that.)

Oh but Meta Knight is, both him and ZSS have a inescapable grab release kill confirm that only works on Jigglypuff, see?/s

Yes, they don't play that similarly and no, I'm not stupid enough to think their moves are really similar, but the fact that their basic game plans (Bait and punish + get a long a ladder combo) and archetypes are so similar is what's alarming to me... and also this.

https://www.ssbwiki.com/Congratulations_screen#Super_Smash_Bros._for_Wii_U

I'm pretty certain Bayonetta was on Sakurai's mind all the way back then and he chose to express that through ZSS. Is that not alarming in any way?

 

[Makai Wars]

A general question to the floor.

Does anyone have a source that confirms that Cloud was included due to the ballot? I never considered that to be the case, and I've not read anything that indicated he was.

Cloud has never ever had anything to do with the ballot. It was stated in his reveal that he got in because Sakurai wanted someone from FF and Cloud was by far the most popular. Going off of everything we know, if Bayo was chosen before the ballot was even launched, Cloud must have been in talks WAY further back. There must have been miles of red tape for Sakurai to deal with to get a hold of Cloud from Square.

 

[KMDP]

Geno's big here there and everywhere. Probably slightly smaller in Japan though. K. Rool isn't as popular in Japan as people make him out to be, but Ashley, Reimu, and Saber are all popular over there.

The only place Geno wouldn't be big in (though 'big' is relative here) is Europe. For a reason I keep stating. SMRPG wasn't sold there.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

A general question to the floor.

Does anyone have a source that confirms that Cloud was included due to the ballot? I never considered that to be the case, and I've not read anything that indicated he was.

Cloud never been stated anywhere to have been chosen from the Ballot, and Sakurai just said Final Fantasy characters always been popular requests for Smash.

 

[Pakky]

Obviously, I wasn't trying to imply that.

Oh but Meta Knight is, both him and ZSS have a inescapable grab release kill confirm that only works on Jigglypuff, see?/s

Yes, they don't play that similarly and no, I'm not stupid enough to think their moves are really similar, but the fact that their basic game plans (Bait and punish + get a long a ladder combo) and archetypes are so similar is what's alarming to me... and also this.

https://www.ssbwiki.com/Congratulations_screen#Super_Smash_Bros._for_Wii_U
View attachment 151196


I'm pretty certain Bayonetta was on Sakurai's mind all the way back then and he chose to express that through ZSS. Is that not alarming in any way?

Forgot about that, Jesus...

Little hints everywhere you look.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Would it? Sega was already involved, and Nintendo already had partial rights to Bayonetta 2 stuff.

Also helps when both Nintendo and Sega have had a relationship with one another since the console war, and only got more...intimate...when Sonic started putting games out for Mario (probably the best long term relationship Nintendo as out of all of the 3rd party companies repped in Smash, with Namco being 2nd)

https://www.ssbwiki.com/Congratulations_screen#Super_Smash_Bros._for_Wii_U
View attachment 151196I'm pretty certain Bayonetta was on Sakurai's mind all the way back then and he chose to express that through ZSS. Is that not alarming in any way?

Samus used to reference and Pit/Palutena used to introduce Bayonetta...she got the red carpet only to kill Dark Pit them the Smash 4 competitive scene

 

[Starbound]

QUESTION

If Smash Ultimate was to have an anime styled opening and if it had vocals in it, who do you think should be the singer?

Rena Strober

 

[KMDP]

All this talk about "The ballot being a lie" is seriously making me worried. why don't we change the topic?

Yeah, why do we play a game?

...Guys? Hello? Still on the ballot? Okay, then.

 

[Hinata]

Hironobu Kageyama.

For those of you who don't recognize that name (like I didn't at first), Hironobu Kageyama sung a lot of opening and ending songs for Dragon Ball.

 

[CroonerMike]

All this talk about "The ballot being a lie" is seriously making me worried. why don't we change the topic?

Why? There is nothing to be worried about LOL.

 

[Slavic]

QUESTION

If Smash Ultimate was to have an anime styled opening and if it had vocals in it, who do you think should be the singer?

GARNiDELiA for sure

 

[MainJPW]

For those of you who don't recognize that name (like I didn't at first), Hironobu Kageyama sung a lot of opening and ending songs for Dragon Ball.

He also sang the opening to Sonic X (Sonic Drive).

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Pretty much the way I see it.
There was no lie as to how Bayonetta fared. It just wasn't what influenced her inclusion. And if we look back to when she was revealed....they never stated that was why she was chosen.
Just using the statistics in a "matter of fact" manner.

I want to hope this is the case, but I do fear they smudged a little white lie with the Number 1 worldwide and Top 5 is the US. In particular for sure the number 1 worldwide.

It's all so shady for the sake of no reason. It just doesn't sit well with me that a character who already has her share of drama within the Smash community has to now deal with this.

It's also really un-Sakurai like in a manner. Why do this with Bayonetta? Why feel the need to justify or crutch her in any way? As a game developer who has always stood by his choices that might seem outlandish to some? Why do this with this one in particular?

Why not just say his true intents? It just all feels really unnecessary.

 

[SquashiniKun]

Why? There is nothing to be worried about LOL.

I'm worried that people are gonna give Sakurai more harassment, It happened when Waluigi was deconfirmed, and i'm worried that its gonna happen again with this.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Hironobu Kageyama.

He's that guy that sung the song during Gohan's SSJ2 transformation right? I'd be down for that.

 

[Blargg888]

Is it just me, or do Smash fans use the term "slap in the face" a little too often?

I've honestly become completely desensitized to the phrase because everybody uses it when something happens that they don't like.
It has honestly gotten hard for me to take it seriously.

QUESTION

If Smash Ultimate was to have an anime styled opening and if it had vocals in it, who do you think should be the singer?

I would want Kanako Kotera or Rena Strober. As for who they'd actually use, I dunno. Those two are just who I'd want.

 

[KMDP]

I'm worried that people are gonna give Sakurai more harassment, It happened when Waluigi was deconfirmed, and i'm worried that its gonna happen again with this.

Yeah, people seem to be getting heated.

We should really do some preliminary damage control on Sakurai's behalf, since the last thing he needs is to get harassed... again... for something he did three years ago that isn't even that big a deal in the grand scheme of things.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

So I ventured to 4chan to see how'd they handle all this ballot drama, and they're taking it about the same way we are. Actually, I'd say they're taking it better. They're much more cynical, so "of course the ballot was rigged" to them. Some people are even excited that their popular ballot pick has a chance in Smash now. This won't be so bad; we all just need to calm down.

Also, another "leak." The puzzle leak claiming that Bayonetta was "on purpose and rigged for victory" has been highlighted with a new status: yellow, which signifies some evidence behind it. We will be seeing more yellow leaks as characters are confirmed and leaks live or die.

Spoiler: "Leak"

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/422856428
So i’ve never done this type of thing before but since my leaker doesn’t want his ass on a silver platter, im doing it for him lol

So while everything that was shown off at E3 was a good handful, there’s still more to come obviously.
The Simon leak is true and he’s based off his appearance from Castlevania Chronicles, with alt costumes representing how he looked on the NES
Pyra is playable with Rex showing up in her Final Smash
King K. Rool is also here, having attacks based off his various personas
Skull Kid is playable, and from what I’ve heard he’s the ‘furthest back in development’
Karate Joe is playable, and his moveset is very rhythmic as it should be
Decidueye is playable like everyone predicted, and he’s a ‘heavy-floaty’
Shadow, Dixie Kong and Ken (from Street Fighter) are all Echo Fighters


As for stages, I’ll just list off the ones we haven’t seen yet.
New: New Donk City, Maelstrom, Gangplank Galleon, Rhythm Heaven, Sky Arena, Excitebike
Returning: Fountain of Dreams (M), Delfino Plaza (B), Kongo Jungle (64), Duck Hunt (3DS/WiiU), Mushroom Kingdom (64), Pirate Ship (B), Flat Zone X (WiiU), Gamer (WiiU), Pictochat (Brawl/3DS, mixture of the two stages), Venom (M), Norfair (B), Windy Hill Zone (WiiU), So with the stages already revealed plus those, that’s 95 total stages.

Classic Mode is still here, having sort of a ‘tower’ feel (Tower of Smash leak anyone? lol), where the character moves up a spiral castle. It’s just Classic Mode from the the first three games with random battles.
Smash Land is an all new mode that is essentially the way to unlocking all the characters extremely quickly, though the characters can also be unlocked by the ‘# of vs matches’ method as well. It’s very similar to Smash Run and is ‘very replayable’.

That’s really all the big stuff, expect to hear more about this in October when everything else will be shown off in a Direct.

 

[KMDP]

He's that guy that sung the song during Gohan's SSJ2 transformation right? I'd be down for that.

He sang almost all the songs for Dragon Ball from Z until Kai. He's also a part of JAM Project, who do songs for Super Robot Wars, among other things (including "The Hero", the opening to One Punch Man). Fun fact: JAM Project also did the first ending for Yu-Gi-Oh! GX.

 

[Hinata]

Pyra is playable with Rex showing up in her Final Smash

Small brain: Rex with Pyra in the background powering him up
Big brain: Rex with Pyra on the foreground, with Rex's strength being dependent on how close he is to Pyra
Galaxy brain: Pyra all by herself

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It is possible that Bayonetta was always planned, then as the votes came in, she was shown to be a top scorer.

After that, they decided that she would be the ballot character for this game and decided to give the final character who was originally going to be a ballot character to Corrin in an attempt to advertise.

 

[Makai Wars]

I want to hope this is the case, but I do fear they smudged a little white lie with the Number 1 worldwide and Top 5 is the US. In particular for sure the number 1 worldwide.

It's all so shady for the sake of no reason. It just doesn't sit well with me that a character who already has her share of drama within the Smash community has to now deal with this.

It's also really un-Sakurai like in a manner. Why do this with Bayonetta? Why feel the need to justify or crutch her in any way? As a game developer who has always stood by his choices that might seem outlandish to some? Why do this with this one in particular?

Why not just say his true intents? It just all feels really unnecessary.

I was thinking something simialr, this seems more like an executive decision done by Nintendo and Sakurai is going to take the blame for it. Sakurai's only sin is being the figurehead for all this.

Yeah, people seem to be getting heated.

We should really do some preliminary damage control on Sakurai's behalf, since the last thing he needs is to get harassed... again... for something he did three years ago that isn't even that big a deal in the grand scheme of things.

I don't think there's anything we can do. Once obnoxious Youtubers like Etika or whatever get ahold of this, people are going to flock to twitter en masse to bomb Sakurai all day. Unless we can somehow delete all evidence of this there's a storm a brewin'.

alternately people could just not care but like we've had what? 9 pages of discussion on this in like 2 hours so RIP the internet when the general audience catches wind.

EDIT: Here, as long as no one on /v/ talks about it this conversation will never leave sma---

Welp, GG.

 

[Troykv]

Thanks!

Man, I really like your proposals, I wasn't too keen on the Chorus Kids, but your proposal is actually kind of selling me on them.


Your Micaiah sounds like "Ranged Jigglypuff", able to put people to sleep, better in the air. I like it! (Though probably for all the wrong reasons. XD)

I always portrayed Micaiah as floaty; and she being slow in the land it's something that probably most of the fandom would agree (her speed it's mediocre; , and for most of the game even a bit bad; specially for FE10's standarts.); but using a character that lacks Speed in anyway it's not appealing, and it would feel like a pushing bag otherwise.

Compared with Jigglypuff she would be slightly more "fatty" (having like Mewtwo's weight, or something similar); obviously a lot taller (but would still be the second shortest of the playable humanoid female characters just higher that Inkling... third if you count Villager too)... She would still be slower that Jigglypuff in the air, and lack her multiple jumps; and her more humanoid physique makes her easier to hit and kill; but she also compesates this having a lot more range (both for the Humanoid proportions and the magic attacks), like Jiggly she has some powerful toys to destroy her enemies; but outside of the basic B Projectil, the rest are quite risky to use (Sleep Staff has endlag and Micaiah's UpAir/FAir are also a bit slow).

And this would perfectly makes sense with Micaiah's playstyle in Radiant Dawn; she is quite fragile, so she needs to keep space to avoid damage; when she has an opportunity to approach she can do some really heavy damage (in RD partially thanks to Thani being effective against many units); but if for some reason you make a little mistake with your positioning; she will be punished hard; specially if the enemy has powerful Physical Weapons.

I'm mostly comparing her to Jiggly to show that Micaiah's way of working isn't as insane as it would look at first glance.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

It is possible that Bayonetta was always planned, then as the votes came in, she was shown to be a top scorer.

After that, they decided that she would be the ballot character for this game and decided to give the final character who was originally going to be a ballot character to Corrin in an attempt to advertise.

Don't even suggest that. If people were to find out that their character of choice might have been kicked out of the roster for Corrin?

Now that'd be a ****storm.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

It is possible that Bayonetta was always planned, then as the votes came in, she was shown to be a top scorer.

After that, they decided that she would be the ballot character for this game and decided to give the final character who was originally going to be a ballot character to Corrin in an attempt to advertise.

Corrin's slot was added in in the immediate next content update of 1.0.8, which was only a couple months afterward.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Just a quick reminder; do not censor your swear words. Let the auto-censor take care of it.

Also, please do not post media-only posts. Videos, pictures, links. Please put some context when posting them.

 

[papagenos]

Well this is pretty vindicating news for those of us who called fowl on the Bayonetta/Corrin debacle.

Happy to hear it was never the ballot that got us the final smash 4 DLC and all the more reason to think Ultimate WILL in fact be ballot choices, the Mii costumes now look like even more likely for newcomer choices.

 

[KMDP]

I don't think there's anything we can do. Once obnoxious Youtubers like Etika or whatever get ahold of this, people are going to flock to twitter en masse to bomb Sakurai all day. Unless we can somehow delete all evidence of this there's a storm a brewin'.

I don't know, we could get in contact with guys like Etika and beg him not to blow it out of proportion.
It's not a big deal yet, but social media types will make it a big deal, if we let them.

We could also send Sakurai an e-mail apologizing in advance, saying that the children who are about to harass him on twitter (...again) do not speak for us.

 

[Headcrab Jackalope]

It's true that the ballot might not have mattered for Smash 4 DLC, but is that really such a bad thing? I mean yeah it's kind of lame that Bayonetta was touted as the "winner" when she was already a planned character, but I don't think that should bother anyone too much. The ballot data is almost certainly being used for Smash Ultimate, which is a much more favorable outcome. Would you have rather had one DLC character based on fan requests, or an entire roster? It's likely that the ballot is the reason we have the return of fan-favorites like Snake, Wolf, Ice Climbers, and even Pichu and Young Link. It's also probably why we finally have a playable Ridley after all these years. If the ballot is what gave us the best Smash Bros. roster of all time, then I'm fine with the fact that whoever actually "won" wasn't included as DLC. I'd much prefer a roster with all veterans+newcomers heavily influenced by fan demand over the addition of a single popular character like K. Rool in Smash 4. Regardless of its purpose, the ballot was a very rare chance for members of the Smash community to show Sakurai how much they care about certain characters, and I think our requests/feedback have been taken into serious consideration for Ultimate.

 

[Pakky]

Decidueye is playable like everyone predicted, and he’s a ‘heavy-floaty’

This is the biggest hurdle for me to get over, because given how Pokemon Company works as well as the anime.

Where is the justification for him? Pokken is all there is.

 

[Makai Wars]

I don't know, we could get in contact with guys like Etika and beg him not to blow it out of proportion.
It's not a big deal yet, but social media types will make it a big deal, if we let them.

We could also send Sakurai an e-mail apologizing in advance, saying that the children who are about to harass him on twitter (...again) do not speak for us.

Naw, Youtubers LITERALLY make money off of drama like this, even if we somehow stop one, another's going to crop up, then another. You underestimate how desperate people are for views and subscribers my man. There's nothing we can really do until the next character reveal blows this whole thing over.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Is it just me, or do Smash fans use the term "slap in the face" a little too often?

I've honestly become completely desensitized to the phrase because everybody uses it when something happens that they don't like.
It has honestly gotten hard for me to take it seriously.



I would want Kanako Kotera or Rena Strober. As for who they'd actually use, I dunno. Those two are just who I'd want.

Spoiler alert: The reason Smash fans use that saying a bit too much is that, as a whole, the speculation community of Smash Bros. has a reputation of being toxic/entitled when it comes to character choices.

I'm saying that as a member of the community. I love Smash, and I love talking about it. But man...I have never, and I mean never seen more entitled strangers who argue about their favorite fictional characters on the internet. They argue with such fury too!

As APC99 said, there are soooooooo many other things that people could be worried about. For example, I'm currently in the process of buying a house. That causes stress. Actual stress. Yes, speculation can be fun because we talk about what we love most, but some people take it a bit too far. There were plenty of toxic moments during the Wii U speculation days, but even now if you mention something that just so happens to go against the thoughts of another user, you risk getting ripped to shreds.

You want a slap in the face? Work your heart out, miss out on sleep, stress over the work, second guess your existence for months on end, work more than 8 hours a day. Then get let go because you don't "fit into the plans".

That, my friends, is a slap in the face. Not "muh favorite fictional character didn't get in muh favorite game".

We literally got mother****ing Ridley, and STILL...STILL, some people are either looking for the next character or complaining about something. Amazing.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Corrin's slot was added in in the immediate next content update of 1.0.8, which was only a couple months afterward.

That's enough to tell who's on top, results wise though.

I doubt things changed much after the first month.

 

[Starbound]

Pyra is playable with Rex showing up in her Final Smash

The first 'leak' I actually like!

 

[KMDP]

You underestimate how desperate people are for views and subscribers my man.

No, I'm fully aware, that's why I said "guys like Etika" and not just "Etika"

There's nothing we can really do until the next character reveal blows this whole thing over.

*sigh* You're probably right... I'm just hoping against hope.