Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Remember when Pokemon Go was relevant and a Smash shoo-in for content?

Good times.

 

[Bowserlick]

Do we think Sakurai might recycle his Diddy/Dixie team-up idea with Cranky and Dixie?

 

[A Distant Demon]

Do we think Sakurai might recycle his Diddy/Dixie team-up idea with Cranky and Dixie?

No, because that wouldnt make any sense.

Cranky and Dixie dont have any reason to be paired together whatsoever.

 

[Deleted member]

Do we think Sakurai might recycle his Diddy/Dixie team-up idea with Cranky and Dixie?

Absolutely not.

The only tag-team involving Dixie outside of the original Diddy/Dixie concept that would happen is Dixie & Kiddy like in DKC3.

Cranky's only partner in the franchise has been DK, and THAT partnership ain't happening in Smash.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Do we think Sakurai might recycle his Diddy/Dixie team-up idea with Cranky and Dixie?

Transformation mechanics are gone, and DKC2 is hardly relevant unfortunately. The Rare styled tag teams also have been replaced in the Retro DKC games by piggy riding DK. So it's extremely unlikely. And honestly, I don't want it to happen either. Dixie just needs to get in on her own.

 

[SlickWylde]

Is everyone assuming Sakurai is going to lead the next project? Personally, I feel like he's done with Smash Brothers. And the way Nintendo works, I wouldn't be *that surprised if they didn't want to continue the franchise without him. I'm honestlly starting to think they won't even make a port for it for Switch. That last thought is far fetched, but Nintendo is weird so again, I wouldn't be that surprised.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Is everyone assuming Sakurai is going to lead the next project? Personally, I feel like he's done with Smash Brothers. And the way Nintendo works, I wouldn't be *that surprised if they didn't want to continue the franchise without him. I'm honestlly starting to think they won't even make a port for it for Switch. That last thought is far fetched, but Nintendo is weird so again, I wouldn't be that surprised.

IMO, I don't think he's going to be heading it, but I do think he would be hired for the next game(at least Smash 5 in itself. Even if hired for a port too) regardless. Mostly as an adviser. There's no way he won't be somewhat associated it with it. If he wants to overall not be the head of the series, that makes sense. But it doesn't mean they won't go to him for advice. The thing is, it's his baby. The companies outright respect that. It's why people actually think Sakurai owns the series, when in reality, Nintendo is the real owner and Sakurai is the most hired man as the director. Some of the original content is possibly owned by Sakurai's company, but I'm unsure if Sakurai's company is 3rd party or 2nd party(meaning being owned by Nintendo).

I just can't see him being completely uninvolved for Smash 5. Later games, sure, if he fully drops the series. It's a fact that the big reason Sakurai was always the director is because of Iwata. With his sad departure of this world, it absolutely affects his chances of always being the director. At the moment, I think Namco-Bandai will be the main directing force for a port(if it happens) and Smash 5.

Should go without saying(and I did say it) that this is clearly my opinion on the matter, and I entirely could be wrong. Who knows. That said, regardless, chances of Namco-Bandai being involved in the next Smash game to come out seem high.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Is everyone assuming Sakurai is going to lead the next project? Personally, I feel like he's done with Smash Brothers. And the way Nintendo works, I wouldn't be *that surprised if they didn't want to continue the franchise without him. I'm honestlly starting to think they won't even make a port for it for Switch. That last thought is far fetched, but Nintendo is weird so again, I wouldn't be that surprised.

If Sakurai is gone, I highly doubt that they are going to make a total new Smash. Sure, Namco might have some experience of the franchise by now, and Sora could help as well as Hal Laberatory - but don't underestimate Sakurai's influence on the franchise. It's no short hours the man spend developing all these brilliant games. His work is greatly vallued.

This is more reason for me to believe that next Smash is gonna be a port. Cause Sakurai needs to fit at least ONE game out, and they can generate an insane amount of money if Smash 4 Switch happens, due to Switch being a lot more succesful commercially than the Wii U was. Then add in the stages and modes from the 3DS version and all the DLC for free, and I strongly doubt that people are gonna react badly to this.

All this work and adding a certain amount of new characters, stages and moveset balancing might just be way more work than we think. Thus Smash 4 Switch DX might not see the light untill say, next year May / June. And even that might just be really early. Smash is not as easy to port as say, Mario Kart.

 

[UserKev]

I mean, Nintendo seems to think so. There's a reason that they gave Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong amiibo in the Super Mario line.

And that's ok. DK is more realistic as comparison to how Mario characters act. DK may have started off in a Mario game but, he eventually went his separate way.

 

[N3ON]

Is everyone assuming Sakurai is going to lead the next project? Personally, I feel like he's done with Smash Brothers. And the way Nintendo works, I wouldn't be *that surprised if they didn't want to continue the franchise without him. I'm honestlly starting to think they won't even make a port for it for Switch. That last thought is far fetched, but Nintendo is weird so again, I wouldn't be that surprised.

Well we're operating under that assumption because it's easier to predict the outcomes of that paradigm. Should someone else take over, which is totally possible, we're at much more of a loss when it comes to the repercussions of their tenure as director. Sakurai is unpredictable, but we're used to him.

And with or without Sakurai, Nintendo works like a business. I've no doubt they respect and value Sakurai highly, but should he step away from Smash, they aren't going to say no to the steep profits his series provides. Case in point, did Kirby stop when he left HAL? Did DK games stop when Rare left? Did the Gameboy stop when Yokoi left? Did Fire Emblem stop when Kaga left? Did the Directs stop after Iwata's passing? No... because they were successful ventures. People like to point to Itoi as the sole example to the exception, but they don't realize that it is the exception. Do you think Mario is going to be retired in tandem with Miyamoto? If anything, the closest parallel, Kirby, proves they will keep the series going after Sakurai's departure. Moreover, Smash and Mother hardly provide comparable profits.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

And that's ok. DK is more realistic as comparison to how Mario characters act. DK may have started off in a Mario game but, he eventually went his separate way.

Uhhhhhh... DK started in the series called Donkey Kong. Mario started in the same game. It's the other way around.

I'm glad they went their separate ways, but regardless of the shared universes, they really could let the DK series branch out a bit more. It's rare to see anything that isn't a regular platformer. There's tons of characters, so they could at least make actual spin-off Donkey Kong specific games.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Weird thing is Donkey Kong crosses over into Mario a whole lot but, aside from the obvious first Donkey Kong, Mario doesn't crossover into Donkey Kong. Like Diddy Kong Racing for example, even though it's a DK game by RareWare, it's still a Nintendo Kart Racer and it doesn't have a single mention of Mario. And none of the DKC games or DK64 really mention Mario besides Cranky, who mentions the first DK game and not Mario, and that brief Cameo of him, Link, and Yoshi in DKC2.

DK is in every Mario Sports game, every Mario Kart, and every Mario Party. It's just strange to me that DK is considered important to the Mario universe but not the other way around.

Either way I think Sakurai understands that DK isn't just a Mario character. That DK is able to stand on his own as a well recognized character with a dearly beloved series. I just don't know if he sees the potential in characters like Dixie and K. Rool despite their popularity. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong and Sakurai does think that DK is just another Mario character.

 

[NintenRob]

I know a lot of people are probably going to disagree with me here, but I've always considered the original Donkey Kong game as more of Mario game despite the name anyway, I mean it is a platformer where you play as Mario.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I know a lot of people are probably going to disagree with me here, but I've always considered the original Donkey Kong game as more of Mario game despite the name anyway, I mean it is a platformer where you play as Mario.

Yes and then there's the sequel in which you play as DK Jr. rescuing the original DK / Cranky from Mario

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I know a lot of people are probably going to disagree with me here, but I've always considered the original Donkey Kong game as more of Mario game despite the name anyway, I mean it is a platformer where you play as Mario.

In a way, it's kinda both since both franchises started off from that very same game.

However, they eventually branched out to form their own separate franchises, but Mario seems cool with it, since he lets him go to his toy factories and go-kart with him.

 

[AEMehr]

A Champion > Wild Link

Sure he's the main character, but that means we would need Odyssey Mario too.

Um, no?
I don't understand why this is an issue. Was Dr. Mario/Young Link added in Melee so the other big Nintendo mascot could have a clone too??

 

[Deleted member]

Remember when Pokemon Go was relevant and a Smash shoo-in for content?

Good times.

I don't remember that at all.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Remember when Pokemon Go was relevant and a Smash shoo-in for content?

Good times.

I remember when it was relevant, but I doubt it was ever considered as potential for Smash.

 

[Diddy Kong]

A Champion > Wild Link

Sure he's the main character, but that means we would need Odyssey Mario too.

Impa > A Champion > Wild Link

Odyssey Mario needs to be in. Star Fox Zero Fox and Falco too. Pokemon Ultra Sun / Moon extra inclusions with NEW MOVES for all the Pokemon. Samus Returns Samus. All Star Battle Kirby. Tropical Freeze Kongs. Mario and Luigi styled as a Mario & Luigi styled duo character... all totally worthy of inclusion to. But we definitely need the veteran movesets unchanged... because they're just too classic.



Impa with a few Sheikah Slate moves and a new stage from Breath of the Wild and maybe a couple of items is fine enough representation.

 

[Deleted member]

Guys, Odyssey Mario is already in Smash.
He's just wearing the doctor outfit.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Guys, Odyssey Mario is already in Smash.
He's just wearing the doctor outfit.

I fully disagree. He's specifically Dr.Mario's Dr.Mario. So now we also need Odyssey's Dr.Mario. Thanks for clearing that out.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I definitely approve of Old Lady Magitech mpa

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

All we really need for "Odyssey" Mario is change a move to have the hat throw.

The "cap"-ture gimmick is way too broken in concept to work in a game like Smash, imo.

 

[Luminario]

Couldn't Sheik simply be updated with Sheikah Slate abilities? Side and Up B could easily be replaced with the remote bomb and the teleport while functioning more or less the same just a bit more turquoise, Stasis could be a new grab animation, and Cryonis and Magnesis could work in there somewhere. It could represent something out of BotW while still keeping Link the same, and update a character who's lost her relevance with recent abilities.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Couldn't Sheik simply be updated with Sheikah Slate abilities? Side and Up B could easily be replaced with the remote bomb and the teleport while functioning more or less the same just a bit more turquoise, Stasis could be a new grab animation, and Cryonis and Magnesis could work in there somewhere. It could represent something out of BotW while still keeping Link the same, and update a character who's lost her relevance with recent abilities.

Because Sheik is nowhere to be seen in that game (not counting her mask that you get from amiibo) and her up B is actually the only move she has that is an actual OoT reference.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Um, no?
I don't understand why this is an issue. Was Dr. Mario/Young Link added in Melee so the other big Nintendo mascot could have a clone too??

More like the fact that having another version of Link with a unique moveset would be a rather underwhelming inclusion.

Even if it's the best way to promote Breath of the Wild.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Um, no?
I don't understand why this is an issue. Was Dr. Mario/Young Link added in Melee so the other big Nintendo mascot could have a clone too??

Dr. Mario and Young Link were added in Melee for the same reason as the other clones; there wasn't enough time to make a new character or two, so Sakurai padded out the roster with moveset clones.

Wild Link wouldn't be a clone, but a unique character that is basically just happens to be another Link physically, which would mean it would be a willing decision from the very start instead of a way to have more characters that was thought later on. That also means he would very likely take away another character's chances at getting in the game. Who? No idea, but it would still mean someone didn't get in because of a third Link.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Breath of the Wild Link is the literal definition of "Playing Things Too Safe".

Of all the unique Zelda options you can pick from, you can only choose another incarnation of Link just because of promotion and relevance.

I'll honestly never get the hype behind that.

 

[Blue_Sword_Edge]

Breath of the Wild Link is the literal definition of "Playing Things Too Safe".

Of all the unique Zelda options you can pick from, you can only choose another incarnation of Link just because of promotion and relevance.

I'll honestly never get the hype behind that.

To add to your point, there have been times where characters have been reconsidered and/or looked at differently. Little Mac was once an Assist Trophy before becoming fully playable. It could apply to Ghirahim or Midna from Zelda.

 

[Deleted member]

Dr. Mario and Young Link were added in Melee for the same reason as the other clones; there wasn't enough time to make a new character or two, so Sakurai padded out the roster with moveset clones.

Wild Link wouldn't be a clone, but a unique character that is basically just happens to be another Link physically, which would mean it would be a willing decision from the very start instead of a way to have more characters that was thought later on. That also means he would very likely take away another character's chances at getting in the game. Who? No idea, but it would still mean someone didn't get in because of a third Link.

You are missing AEM's point entirely.

He's saying BotW Link doesn't necessitate Odyssey Mario any more than Dr. Mario/Young Link necessitated the other. As in he doesn't.
This is in direct response to Aussie's statement that we would need Odyssey Mario if we had BotW Link as a newcomer.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

You are missing AEM's point entirely.

He's saying BotW Link doesn't necessitate Odyssey Mario any more than Dr. Mario/Young Link necessitated the other.

Oh... my b.

Very good point though. I mean, how would two different games from two different franchises affect one another in a third one?

 

[Luminario]

Because Sheik is nowhere to be seen in that game (not counting her mask that you get from amiibo) and her up B is actually the only move she has that is an actual OoT reference.

Eh, worth throwing the idea out there. I was thinking if they couldn't update Link or Zelda and they couldn't throw in Impa or a Champion why not give the Sheikah Slate to Sheik? I know she only made a cameo through costume but at least it would suit her thematically.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

For real, I wouldn't lose any sleep if we do happen to get Wild Link in the game.

As long as that's the last new Link we necessarily get.

 

[Staarih]

I dunno, Wild/Champion Link is a plausible option to me. Seems like a very "Smash" thing to do. Yes, it's another Link, but a very different one and from a game which lifted Zelda to a whole other level (and where he, of course, is the protagonist and most prominent character).

I kinda see a Toon Link situation here. Was Toon Link (by name at least) even a thing before Smash? He was essentially just Link, but from Wind Waker, another game which set a new path for Zelda and with different artstyle. Now we have a similar situation but with Link being, well, "Wild Link". And he has more room to work with without being a clone. I guess some could argue about Toon Link just replacing Young Link, but to me it always seemed like he was to represent the Wind Waker/sideseries of Zelda. Wild Link would be the equivalent to BotW. But maybe that's just me.

Of course the ideal situation would be to revamp/update current Link's moveset to be on par with BotW and this is what I'd like to see as well (and continue on to update Zelda as well, maybe even the rest of the Zelda-cast to some extent), but we all know how persistent they are with keeping the movesets intact. While Sakurai is in charge at least.

 

[NintenRob]

I really don't want to see Link updated to breath of the Wild. The core standard Link is meant to be a composite of the character. Yes the design comes from TP. But he has iconic green clothes. And his other weapons are staples as well, even if they are the TP version of the staples. When it became TP Link, they didn't do a huge revamp because it was still Link using the stuff. The biggest change was the boomerang, and thats nothing special.

And we don't need another Link as a playable character, and I don't buy that Impa and Tingle are our only choices for non triforce trio newcomer.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I really don't want to see Link updated to breath of the Wild. The core standard Link is meant to be a composite of the character. Yes the design comes from TP. But he has iconic green clothes. And his other weapons are staples as well, even if they are the TP version of the staples. When it became TP Link, they didn't do a huge revamp because it was still Link using the stuff. The biggest change was the boomerang, and thats nothing special.

And we don't need another Link as a playable character, and I don't buy that Impa and Tingle are our only choices for non triforce trio newcomer.

I agree to all of this.

Also, people tend to claim that Impa and Tingle are our only choices for newcomers simply because they're recurring characters. I don't disagree about them being more likely since well, they're in more than one game, but that doesn't make them our only choices.

I mean, Sheik never appeared in any Zelda game after OoT until Hyrule Warriors (which is a non-canon spin-off, btw), but that didn't stop her from coming back in Brawl. Yes, she had concept art for TP, which was used for Smash, but she never physically appeared in the game. She remained exclusive to OoT, yet remained in Smash anyway even though she isn't a recurring character.

And for everyone who says "Well, she's part of Zelda's moveset in Brawl so of course she'll stay", they could've easily changed it up, like they did in 4, but kept it the same way. In fact, it was probably harder to program than just having Zelda be on her own without Sheik, but they kept things the way they are because she became popular in Smash despite being a one-off character.

Or at least, that's what I think happened. I mean, I'm not in any of the devs' mind, right? But that's just how I personally see this whole Sheik situation.

Anyway, my point is that a one-off character appearing in Smash and getting some glory isn't impossible, people. It could happen. It could also not happen, but we shouldn't rule off those who only appear in one game due to a lack of reccurence. Who knows? Maybe another character like Sheik can happen again?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Sheik is controversial enough as it is. She's a honorary Melee / OOT character. Keep it like that. She's in cause she remained popular. But y'know, I would've personally kicked her out for Impa in the last Smash.

Sheik with the Sheikah Slate is also a terrible idea. Impa makes the most sense to do this. And it has even a chance of happening in a BOTW prequel or the next DLC. I won't say it WILL happen. But it's a way better idea than Wild Link. The magic can also be represented without the use of the Sheikah Slate even. It IS Sheikah magic after all.

Also never said Impa is the only choice. But she's in my opinion the best outside of Ganon. But Ganon could even serve as a replacement of Ganondorf... Do we even know if he's ever coming back? Am getting strong doubts at the moment. They've been hessistant of using his human form for quite some time now.

Outside of Impa as a realistic choice, there's only really Toon Zelda. Who isn't gonna be more diverse from Zelda than Toon Link is from Link. Tingle has a hatebase, and would've probably been included in Brawl if he'd ever appear. Midna is a one off, but a popular one and one I can imagine being 'immortalised' through Smash similar to Sheik as a honorary Twilight Princess character. And Skull Kid was always popular.

If Skyward Sword HD comes to be, Ghirahim even has a shot again. Then again, if he's in I can also see them adding Impa alongside him. Either as Sheik clone, alternative costume, or downright replacement.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The thing about Sheik is she's still a very popular form of Zelda in Smash.

Which makes her part of the core Triforce Trio. That puts her well above recurring lesser but notable characters by default. Don't forget that the only reason she got back in was because of the concept art in itself.

The idea of Wild Link probably isn't happening, especially to replace regular Link. The idea of updating his aesthetics a bit to the new weapons is more likely. This would be more like how Young Link got replaced by Toon Link. You still have the same character, but with some clear updates to their designs. The new bomb style, an update bow design, etc. Link's normal clothing barely has to change other than being a bit more like his classic tunic, to represent his composite nature.

That said, they could do so to Zelda as well, although there's not much to change specifically for moves to give her, besides buffs. For Sheik and Ganondorf, unless everyone gets the HW looks, they're better off staying TP style. They don't need much updates either way. Ganondorf is pretty good beyond properly buffs/balancing, with only his Wizard's Foot feeling out of place at best among all his other moves. Sheik has a perfectly fitting moveset at this time.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Sheik having a perfectly fitting moveset? I whole hearty disagree yet again. Everything her moveset excists of is completely made up. Even Fox and Captain Falcon still have a better thematic moveset than Sheik, their moves sort of representing their verhicle's many abilities.

Sheik only sort of has Vanish that represents her abilities in Ocarina of Time. And even that should be executed with a Deku Nut. She had official art with a short blade she never made use off, even if it's included in her Smash model.. she never uses Deku Nuts, or that ring of fire magic from the cutscene in OOT's Fire Temple, or her Harp, which is her weapon of choice in Hyrule Warriors. She could use the Song of Storms for example to manipulate the weather or use creative liberty using Sun's Song to stun enemies like how Redeads freeze when playing the song... Lots of stuff. Yet Sakurai prefers her using needles, a grenade which never even appeared in a Zelda game, or a whip which is called a chain ironicaly. Literally only her Transform was a canon ability.

This is also why I was upset with the 1002 moveset changes on Sheik, and Ganondorf receiving 0 new moves outside of Customs. It made no sense to me. They could literally pick any other generic ninja and attach Sheik's moveset on it. At least Impa had more to work with, and that's only with her Skyward Sword appearance. She would be a more magical based ninja, which is a sort of composite style between Zelda and Sheik, something that fans also could appriciate if they where used to using Zelda and Sheik in conjunction.

Impa is just a good choice because she's flexible and reoccuring. There's just a lot they could do with her, be it a clone, a alternative costume, a semi-clone, a Hyrule Warriors character, Sheikah Slate abilities and hsvinf composite Zelda / Sheik moveset. Which other Zelda character offers this flexibility in design choices?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Impa has a lot of flexibility but each power and ability is tied to a new design.