Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Kirby Dragons]

I don't see Squirtle and Ivysaur coming back, nor do I see a reason for them to come back.

 

[Zerp]

That kind of brings up a question.

Your reaction.

Smash 4 port.

Has all Smash 4 characters + Inkling + (with moveset altercations/luigification if necessary)+ New Stages.

One new mode.

What do you think?

I'd feel mixed, but more positive than negative, that's more characters than I'd expect for a port, and more stages are always welcome but, I'm assuming since you didn't mention any balance changes that there's a lack of balance changes to the Smash 4 cast, which'd be very disheartening for me personally. I doubt most people would care.

 

[Opossum]

i see people putting desidueye as a contender. any reason why though? and how would he fight?

Personally, I'd love to see Decidueye since one playstyle I've always wanted in Smash was that of a true archer character. Not like Link or Pit, who shoot an arrow for one move each, but a more full moveset of archery, kind of like Green Arrow in Injustice of Hawkeye in MvC. Being a Grass/Ghost owl just strengthens the appeal for me. Not to mention it allows it to pepper in some wing and talon attacks.

Additionally, Decidueye could have a playstyle involving its signature move/most likely Neutral Special, Spirit Shackle. In Sun and Moon, Spirit Shackle is a Ghost move exclusive to Decidueye in which he shoots an arrow quill at an opponent. When it connects, it does good damage alongside preventing the opponent from switching out of battle. For Smash, this would likely translate to Spirit Shackle holding foes in place for a bit if it connects, compensating for Decidueye's own lack of speed and allowing him to get in close. His playstyle would allow him to control the momentum of both him and his opponent.

If you'd like a better illustration of how he'd work, here's a moveset I wrote up a while ago.

Spoiler: Decidueye

Jab: A three strike attack. First is swipe of the wing, and then two talon-swipe kicks.
Dash Attack: Decidueye glides forward a bit, corkscrewing while using Drill Peck.
Side Tilt: Decidueye flaps its wings twice, aggressively.
Up Tilt: Decidueye leaps up to hit foes with its beak.
Down Tilt: Decidueye does a low kick with its claws.

Neutral Air: Channeling its inner Yondu, Decidueye's arrow makes a loop around itself despite Decidueye not firing it. Spooooooky.
Forward Air: Decidueye launches and arrow diagonally downward.
Back Air: Decidueye turns to kick foes with its talons.
Up Air: Decidueye flaps its wings, sending it slightly upward to hit foes. Uniquely, this can aid in recovery, similar to Corrin's back air.
Down Air: Decidueye launches a spread of three arrows below it. The middle arrow meteor smashes foes.

Side Smash: Decidueye leaps back while launching an arrow at the ground in front of it.
Up Smash: Decidueye launches three arrows consecutively directly above it. This is a meteor smash.
Down Smash: Decidueye leaps up and launches an exploding feather arrow into the ground below it.

Forward Throw: Decidueye launches an arrow at the foes head, launching them forward.
Back Throw: Decidueye tosses them back and kicks the foe with extended talons.
Up Throw: Decidueye flies up, foe in its talons, and slams them into the ground.
Down Throw: Decidueye launches and arrow into the ground that explodes.



Specials:

Neutral Special: Spirit Shackle - Decidueye takes aim and launches an arrow toward the foe. If hit, the opponent will be stunned and unable to move or jump for a small amount of time, enabling Decidueye to follow up with a strong attack.

Side Special: Leafage - Decidueye launches three razor-sharp leaves out of its wing bow that then spread in a fan pattern. At any point, Side B can be pressed again to make them reconverge for more damage.

Up Special: Brave Bird - Decidueye flies up and then diagonally downward at the peak. If a foe is hit in the downward crash, it does heat damage, but also causes recoil damage to Decidueye.

Down Special: U-Turn - Decidueye gets a ghostly aura about it and launches itself at the opponent horizontally. While in this ghostly state, Decidueye is intangible. After striking, Decidueye goes back to where it was when starting the move. This move doesn't do a lot of damage, and instead is mainly used for its super armor and as a poking move.

Final Smash: Sinister Arrow Raid - Decidueye leaps up and performs its signature Z-Move, Sinister Arrow Raid. A huge line of Spirit Shackles descend from the sky and target the foe, and on impact, explode for massive damage and knockback.

As for why Decidueye in particular, I just really think we'll get a Pokémon from Sun and Moon. The games came out amidst rumors of a Smash Switch port, so the timing is right (though more so for a port than a brand new title). Add into that that Pokémon is one of the series that could easily have a seventh character and feel warranted, and that Sun and Moon were the big 20th anniversary titles for Nintendo's second biggest series, and a character from it seems likely to me.

Decidueye is also definitely a standout notable Pokémon from a marketing and popularity standpoint. As a starter Pokemon, it was clearly the fan favorite, getting the most positive buzz by far from the time it was just Rowlet. It was also the only Alola starter to maintain its incredibly high popularity throughout the entire Sun Moon prerelease, since Popplio wasn't well received initially (though Primarina helped it a bit) and many Litten and Torracat fans created a huge backlash over Incineroar's design (it's lessened by now, but hey, first impressions matter...that and Decidueye is still more popular). In addition, Decidueye has a very clear cut playstyle to go off of just from its appearance (the sniping archer character archetype), possibly leading to it standing out to Sakurai.



So yeah, that's how I see Decidueye, anyway. Hope it helped.

 

[Deleted member]

Personally, I'd love to see Decidueye since one playstyle I've always wanted in Smash was that of a true archer character. Not like Link or Pit, who shoot an arrow for one move each, but a more full moveset of archery, kind of like Green Arrow in Injustice of Hawkeye in MvC.

You will not get that from Decidueye.

Do you know what Green Arrow and Hawkeye have that Decidueye doesn't?
a. wide assortment of arrow types to use
b. an actual bow that can be used as a weapon for close range combat

 

[A Distant Demon]

That kind of brings up a question.

Your reaction.

Smash 4 port.

Has all Smash 4 characters + Inkling + (with moveset altercations/luigification if necessary)+ New Stages.

One new mode.

What do you think?

I would pass

inkling and Ivysaut wold be cool, but not enough to spend $50+ on

 

[Opossum]

You will not get that from Decidueye.

Do you know what Green Arrow and Hawkeye have that Decidueye doesn't?
a. wide assortment of arrow types to use
b. an actual bow that can be used as a weapon for close range combat

You're missing the point entirely.

I didn't necessarily mean trick arrows. I thought it was pretty clear I meant shooting arrows for most, or at least a heavy portion of, the moveset. You know, as opposed to Link and Pit's single special move, or Kratos in PSASBR where he uses a bow for single move. And even with that said, shooting for normals, Spirit Shackle Neutral Special, and even a stylized version of Leafage as seen in my example set (Smash doesn't always portray Pokémon attacks correctly anyway). Three potential "arrow types" already.

And B is factually incorrect. Decidueye's bow can be used as a weapon, since half of its bow is its wing. Decidueye would definitely have wing attacks for close combat.

 

[Kevandre]

I want Squirtle and Ivysaur to come back because of my own personal feelings- Ivysaur is my favorite Pokemon and I absolutely rekt with Ivy in Brawl/PM. I haven't had the same satisfaction while playing any character in Smash 4.

 

[The Smash Nerd II.0.]

Here's my question to people that want Goku.

.....why have Goku.....when we could have Broly instead?

Hey. They can't get in.
Not form a game, not in.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

As soon as gets back in I'm sold. They could add whoever they ****ing want after that. All I need is Snake.

 

[praline]

Here's my question to people that want Goku.

.....why have Goku.....when we could have Broly instead?

Broly could be an alt costume maybe.

 

[Megadoomer]

As soon as gets back in I'm sold. They could add whoever they ****ing want after that. All I need is Snake.

I wish I could like this post multiple times; it's a shame that nobody in Smash 4 played like him.

 

[praline]

Hey. They can't get in.
Not form a game, not in.

Eyy **** that.

 

[Diddy Kong]

That kind of brings up a question.

Your reaction.

Smash 4 port.

Has all Smash 4 characters + Inkling + (with moveset altercations/luigification if necessary)+ New Stages.

One new mode.

What do you think?

I'd enjoy Squirtle, Wolf and Snake immensively. And I'd probably try to get some skill with Pichu just because. 7/10. Would be satisfied.

To be honest, I want them to seriously alternate a few character's movesets. I have never played the games, but I know for certain that characters as as well as and play a LOT more like their character in their original games than a lot of veterans!!

And to be honest, this is really not fair. Why would they give those characters better treatment than excisting veterans, just because they where later additions? In Brawl, at least every new character kind of flowed with what was already established. That's why a lot of new characters in Smash 4 are a big eye-sore to me (there I said it, SORRY NOT SORRY!).

From all excisting characters, just a few new faces really blended it well with the established (Brawl) cast and didn't fully rely on gimmicks, like most new characters. Characters I feel that aren't overly gimmicky and would've fit in the Brawl roster for example are: (best example to be honest!) and (Mac less so than the others). Bordering characters are: & . and cheat themselves into these categories cause of them being clones.

The roster is honestly a mess right now, and I don't think all this quantity really means for better quality. This especially becomes apperant when a character like joins in. was specifically balanced NOT to be like Cloud; fast, strong, long reach AND a projectile (like Ike as a Fire Emblem character; a total beast). Yet Cloud can pull it off cause he's got the '3rd party wild card'?? I think this is very hypocritical. And I DO NOT want a character's representation in Smash to suffer because of it.

I mean...

doesn't even use his magic and weapons and fights with a mostly made-up style with only a FEW hints to his villain role in The Legend of Zelda.
doesn't even use proper Psychic attacks or telekinesis in his moveset, Shadow Ball, Disable and Confusion are a poor representation of his character, even if everything else is cool (ever since the buffs of course)
is becoming a worse and worse representation of her abilities in Metroid every incaration in Smash! I especially find this bothersome with characters as running about with a 'all projectile moveset' that should've mostly been Samus's playstyle. At the very least she should be able to run and shoot.... And thank the Universe that Screw Attack finally kills....

What's worse, they threw around character revamps to a few characters that don't really need them... For example (was FINE as she was) and . was understandable, so was ... But Zero Suit Samus and Sheik only became more overpowered than they where at their prime.

Smash 4's roster was a mess, and so was it's balance. I disliked pretty much all the newcomers except the ones I mentoined above, and it was made clear that some characters got far more love and especially attention than others, even at the cost of popular veterans: THE VERY CHARACTERS THAT MADE THIS GAME POPULAR!

See, I got a lot more to rant about than Impa. Smash 4 was a mess. A beautiful mess with good gameplay, and a huge roster, SURE! But there's a lot that can be, and SHOULD be improved on. And one of the things I want most is more accurate and flashy apperances of the Nintendo veterans that need it more than some "paid fanservice"...

I wish I could like this post multiple times; it's a shame that nobody in Smash 4 played like him.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Barely been a day and we now have multiple threads, people coming back to the boards, and hardcore detracting.


Smash fanbase never stops being ravenous huh?

I miss this

 

[Opossum]

I'd enjoy Squirtle, Wolf and Snake immensively. And I'd probably try to get some skill with Pichu just because. 7/10. Would be satisfied.

To be honest, I want them to seriously alternate a few character's movesets. I have never played the games, but I know for certain that characters as as well as and play a LOT more like their character in their original games than a lot of veterans!!

And to be honest, this is really not fair. Why would they give those characters better treatment than excisting veterans, just because they where later additions? In Brawl, at least every new character kind of flowed with what was already established. That's why a lot of new characters in Smash 4 are a big eye-sore to me (there I said it, SORRY NOT SORRY!).

From all excisting characters, just a few new faces really blended it well with the established (Brawl) cast and didn't fully rely on gimmicks, like most new characters. Characters I feel that aren't overly gimmicky and would've fit in the Brawl roster for example are: (best example to be honest!) and (Mac less so than the others). Bordering characters are: & . and cheat themselves into these categories cause of them being clones.

The roster is honestly a mess right now, and I don't think all this quantity really means for better quality. This especially becomes apperant when a character like joins in. was specifically balanced NOT to be like Cloud; fast, strong, long reach AND a projectile (like Ike as a Fire Emblem character; a total beast). Yet Cloud can pull it off cause he's got the '3rd party wild card'?? I think this is very hypocritical. And I DO NOT want a character's representation in Smash to suffer because of it.

I mean...

doesn't even use his magic and weapons and fights with a mostly made-up style with only a FEW hints to his villain role in The Legend of Zelda.
doesn't even use proper Psychic attacks or telekinesis in his moveset, Shadow Ball, Disable and Confusion are a poor representation of his character, even if everything else is cool (ever since the buffs of course)
is becoming a worse and worse representation of her abilities in Metroid every incaration in Smash! I especially find this bothersome with characters as running about with a 'all projectile moveset' that should've mostly been Samus's playstyle. At the very least she should be able to run and shoot.... And thank the Universe that Screw Attack finally kills....

What's worse, they threw around character revamps to a few characters that don't really need them... For example (was FINE as she was) and . was understandable, so was ... But Zero Suit Samus and Sheik only became more overpowered than they where at their prime.

Smash 4's roster was a mess, and so was it's balance. I disliked pretty much all the newcomers except the ones I mentoined above, and it was made clear that some characters got far more love and especially attention than others, even at the cost of popular veterans: THE VERY CHARACTERS THAT MADE THIS GAME POPULAR!

See, I got a lot more to rant about than Impa. Smash 4 was a mess. A beautiful mess with good gameplay, and a huge roster, SURE! But there's a lot that can be, and SHOULD be improved on. And one of the things I want most is more accurate and flashy apperances of the Nintendo veterans that need it more than some "paid fanservice"...

I definitely agree that some veterans could use a moveset overhaul (Samus and Zelda come to mind) but honestly that's more of a case of Technology Marches On mixed with Sakurai's insistence on not alienating fans of veterans. I don't necessarily see it as a thing to hold against newer characters.

Heck, even Brawl had a case of a character breaking the established Smash mold to be more like their own games. Moveset wise, I'd say Olimar is more similar to the Smash 4 newcomers than most veterans. I'd also probably add Pac-Man and Robin to the list of more "traditional" Smashers, since the former lacked a gimmick and the latter's wasn't overbearing (more similar to Olimar's really).

 

[Diddy Kong]

I definitely agree that some veterans could use a moveset overhaul (Samus and Zelda come to mind) but honestly that's more of a case of Technology Marches On mixed with Sakurai's insistence on not alienating fans of veterans. I don't necessarily see it as a thing to hold against newer characters.

Heck, even Brawl had a case of a character breaking the established Smash mold to be more like their own games. Moveset wise, I'd say Olimar is more similar to the Smash 4 newcomers than most veterans. I'd also probably add Pac-Man and Robin to the list of more "traditional" Smashers, since the former lacked a gimmick and the latter's wasn't overbearing (more similar to Olimar's really).

Olimar? Yes I could see him as a Smash 4 newcomer but he's not nearly as bad as others. Robin would make for a good traditional Smasher if he didn't have this weird weapon durability thing going for him. I mean, if that was truely a thing for Fire Emblem characters, Roy would be even MORE useless.

 

[FunAtParties]

That kind of brings up a question.

Your reaction.

Smash 4 port.

Has all Smash 4 characters + Inkling + (with moveset altercations/luigification if necessary)+ New Stages.

One new mode.

What do you think?

I'd be fine with it, but I seriously don't see why we need 3 ****in Links.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'd be fine with it, but I seriously don't see why we need 3 ****in Links.

That was just to include every veteran.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If Young Link is basically his MM version using various masks(he has enough that it doesn't even have to have him turn into his various forms, although a final smash of Fierce Deity Link would be neat), then sure. Otherwise, he feels unneeded since Toon Link already takes that niche all too well.

 

[N3ON]

I'd take ICs + Wolf/Snake + Inklings + other newcomer + new stages over Inklings + all vets + new stages + new mode.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Hyrule Warriors and Pokken should be used as inspiration. Characters who appear in those games who are also in Smash are a lot less tame, and it felt real fresh. I don't care if these game are non-canon, neither is Smash. And it shouldn't really matter any way, cause other fighting games are simply the best inspiration for fighting games, period.

We'd all kill for HW Ganondorf and Zelda, don't lie to yourself.

Also, it opens the door for Impa!

 

[Bowserlick]

Decidueye needs a move where it regurgitates bones.

*edit (there can be random skulls in the bone spew such as Rattata and Marowak: which would be a skull wearing a skull)

 

[Deleted member]

We'd all kill for HW Ganondorf and Zelda, don't lie to yourself.

And then watch people complain about how Ganondorf and Zelda are turned into generic swordfighters, regardless of how unique their movesets would turn out.

 

[Diddy Kong]

And then watch people complain about how Ganondorf and Zelda are turned into generic swordfighters, regardless of how unique their movesets would turn out.

I wanted Zelda with a rapier ever since I saw the first trailers of Twilight Princess.

To be quite honest, I expect zero changes to the Zelda cast. Twilight Princess HD is a great excuse to not update the character designs at all.

Which is EXTREMELY boring, as it was in Brawl and in Smash 4, so I'm in dire need for something new. Which won't happen, cause the Zelda cast in mainline games loves to throw in one offs who we'll never see again.

I'd kill for a Impa alt for Sheik now to be quite honest.....

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Eh, I don't care about HW Ganondorf at all, honestly. Only dual sword versions of Ganondorf of interest to me is Ganon(from OOT) and Toon Ganondorf. I honestly love the version of Ganondorf we have now. He's extremely fun to play as and feels like the ultimate powerhouse. That said, I do wish he had Dead Man's Volley, but that's the only real change of interest to me.

I also prefer Zelda the way she is design-wise, but she needs serious buffs. She's awful as she is now. Maybe not the lowest of bottom tier by technicalities, but still needs massive help.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Best Ganon is trident Ganon

 

[Deleted member]

Hey. They can't get in.
Not form a game, not in.

You have a difficult time telling when someone's joking and when someone's serious it seems.

Also.....

.....this version of Broly originated from a game and has only been in games, so....

SSj3 Broly for Smash Switch!

(I'm still joking, by the way. Figured I'd let you know before you take it seriously again.)

Broly could be an alt costume maybe.

There are so many reasons why that wouldn't really work..... 0_o

It's kind of like saying Mew could be an alternate costume of Mewtwo.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Best Ganon is trident Ganon

Inb4 we get Calamity Ganon.

 

[Sharkarat]

Only want hyrule warriors Ganondorf if it's Trident version. And I still don't want the HW Ganondorf Design I'm just not a fan of it.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I'm still mad we didn't get Skyward sword Link and Zelda

ok I was only mad after playing SS like a month ago but still


I don't care if TP ganondorf wouldn't fit anymore I like those 2 designs too much!

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Inb4 we get Calamity Ganon.

Whenever you say Calamity Ganon I think of Calamity Jane so I'm imagining a female cowboy Ganon

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'm still mad we didn't get Skyward sword Link and Zelda

ok I was only mad after playing SS like a month ago but still


I don't care if TP ganondorf wouldn't fit anymore I like those 2 designs too much!

Am actually mad cause I actually did think Skyward Sword is great, and it'll probably get a lot of love in the upcoming months. Considering the 'last Zelda is best Zelda meme' that is going on since forever. And it excists for a good reason! Cause every next Zelda title, they are going to do their best to over compensate for the weaknesses of the previous title, or fan complainst.

Skyward Sword might've been linear, but it had it's focus on the core elements of Zelda gameplay: interessting items and deep, complex dungeons. They are already being missed now Breath of the Wild is out, can't imagine them being forgotten soon. The only things objectively bad about Skyward Sword where Fi, and the lack of an actual overworld.

The story was deeper than any other Zelda ever. And the combat was amazing as well.

Whenever you say Calamity Ganon I think of Calamity Jane so I'm imagining a female cowboy Ganon

Better than the real deal I'm affraid.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Sheik, Ganondorf and Toon Link can easily keep the same designs.

Link and Zelda should have a new one with elements from SS and BotW though.

 

[Delzethin]

That kind of brings up a question.

Your reaction.

Smash 4 port.

Has all Smash 4 characters + Inkling + (with moveset altercations/luigification if necessary)+ New Stages.

One new mode.

What do you think?

To be honest...mixed at best. I'm not a fan of that character selection. Only one newcomer? Why bring back every single veteran over so many compelling newcomer choices just because they existed first? Why should seniority be more important than anything else?

Well...let's just say the whole "bring everyone back for the sake of it, then maybe a newcomer or two if they feel like it" idea rubs me the wrong way, and more often than not, it seems like the main reason it gets passed around is either because said veterans are placed on too high a pedestal or because people aren't looking far enough past them. Apologies for coming off so bluntly for what was just a question; it's a bit of a sore spot for me.

As far as the rest goes, it'd depend on exactly what the stages and mode were. If they were competitively viable and/or interesting, I'd be all for it. But again, don't just bring back past stages or modes for the sake of bringing them back, give them a purpose.

 

[Deleted member]

You're missing the point entirely.

I didn't necessarily mean trick arrows. I thought it was pretty clear I meant shooting arrows for most, or at least a heavy portion of, the moveset. You know, as opposed to Link and Pit's single special move, or Kratos in PSASBR where he uses a bow for single move. And even with that said, shooting for normals, Spirit Shackle Neutral Special, and even a stylized version of Leafage as seen in my example set (Smash doesn't always portray Pokémon attacks correctly anyway). Three potential "arrow types" already.

You thought wrong, considering what makes the two comic book archers notable are the different types of trick arrows they possess (hell, the Death Battle that featured them was basically a contest of whose trick arrows were better). So saying "like Green Arrow/Hawkeye" heavily implies that moreso than the idea of most of their moves being arrow shots.

.....especially since said statement on most of their moves being arrow shots (in context of Injustice and UMvC3, respectively) is actually not true. And for the different arrow moves in their movesets......they all use different types of arrows for the most part.....as in.....what the two are known for.

So either way, not a good comparison point.

And B is factually incorrect. Decidueye's bow can be used as a weapon, since half of its bow is its wing. Decidueye would definitely have wing attacks for close combat.

Attacking with wings =/= attacking with a bow.
Like, how is that even questionable?

Furthermore, it wouldn't be anything remotely similar to what Green Arrow or Hawkeye do with their bows (the closest one for that would be the Pits), so that point still stands.

 

[Baskerville]

I'm hoping for their Hyrule Warriors designs as default and their Breath of the Wild costumes as alts.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Decidueye would be more bird fighter than archer fighter.

Let's be honest.

And B is factually incorrect. Decidueye's bow can be used as a weapon, since half of its bow is its wing. Decidueye would definitely have wing attacks for close combat.

When this is how you justify it being an archer fighter, I'm not impressed.

 

[praline]

You have a difficult time telling when someone's joking and when someone's serious it seems.

Also.....

.....this version of Broly originated from a game and has only been in games, so....

SSj3 Broly for Smash Switch!

(I'm still joking, by the way. Figured I'd let you know before you take it seriously again.)



There are so many reasons why that wouldn't really work..... 0_o

It's kind of like saying Mew could be an alternate costume of Mewtwo.

Yeah I was joking.

I'm not joking about wanting Goku though..

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah I was joking.

I'm not joking about wanting Goku though..

And me neither about Broly, honestly.
Seeing the mod of him that's featured in the SSB Infinite thing for Brawl made me realize how much I actually needed it.

I don't need someone who's all about "punch punch kick kick let me showcase my awesome martial arts prowess" with teleporting beam combos and what-not; I need someone more "I'm going to hit you. It's going to hurt. A lot. Then I'll hit you again. And again. And again. Until you beg for the sweet release of death. Which I'll then be more than happy to grant."

It has even less odds of happening than Goku, but I'd gladly take Broly instead if given the option.

 

[Bowserlick]

If Smash Switch is going to be a port, I bet we get Decidueye. If Switch is going to be Smash #5 then the owl is probably less likely. Another pokemon generation may come out, in which case the new starter trio's would be most likely competing for the slot.