Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[CodakTheWarrior]

There really isn't any point to speculating anymore. You may get a few more characters and a few stages, but you just saw 90% of the game at least. Its not going to add much more than this since the whole point is "hey all the characters are back."

I expect that this game will go down as one of the weakest games. I think after the hype wears down people will realize there really isn't going to be much to this game. People will probably get bored with it really quickly as well as its all stuff from past games.

I also saw a really great point: where does the game go from here. You can't really have a big roster anymore since that's kind of the appeal of this game and its sacrificing new content on the alter of "Hey all the characters are back." I think it may be time for a reboot soon. After this, the series desperatly needs one.

I really don't get the negative reception this game is receiving. This is, quite literally, the ultimate Smash experience, bringing all of these amazing characters from every facet of Nintendo(plus some guests)'s library together to duke it out, yet people still aren't impressed. I honestly think this fanbase is impossible to please.

Anyway, for my idea of the roster, am hoping for five newcomers; three uniquely, two echo.

For my unique characters, I personally would include

King K. Rool- Like Ridley, is a holy grail character that would really live up to 'ultimate' status, incredibly likely.

Decidueye- Every Smash has a Pokémon Newcomer, and adding Decidueye to the game would be awesome. Really, a Toni of different Pokémon could be added here, but I just went with Decidueye as my most wanted.

Geno- Although Simon does seem more likely right now, I have Geno as the third party for his legendary status. If this really is the last smash game for a while, now would be the perfect time to add him.

For the echos, I have the following;

Funky Kong- Surge in popularity following the TF port, similar enough build to DK to work well as echo.

Octoling- Splatoon is definitely popular enough for two characters, and, since Octolings are surprisingly not an alt, I could easily see them as last minute addition.

Thoughts?

 

[papagenos]

Might be a contreversial opinion, but if you are setting your expectations to more than 6-8 new characters, your setting your expectations way too high.
There's not many spots left on the roster, and only 2-3 more directs to show off information (not even counting unlockables hidden until after release) IMO it's likely we get Belmont and a few others and that's about it. It's going to be a rough time for character speculation for those who survived today, as the survivors will scrap for what remains...

Im guessing at 7, i think belmonts in so 6 left after that and at LEAST 1 of those remaining 6 will be another echo character and we'll probably have 2-4 revealed before the game 2-4 kept hidden (before leaks happen anyway...)

 

[CannonStreak]

Just wondering out of curiosity: Why do some people think we will get 8-10 new characters in this game?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I just found out that Yoko Shimomura did a cover for Vega's theme in Ultimate, and it's SO good.

 

[FalcoXP]

I'm curious, why everybody is talking about belmont as a confirmed char?

 

[ninthetic]

I'm curious, why everybody is talking about belmont as a confirmed char?

a "leak" that also happened to guess ice climbers and ridley

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Remember guy's when Viridi was trashtalking Chrom for being too Similar to Ike? In Palutena's guidance?
Or How Sakurai said he would just be a mix of Marth and Ike?

With the "officialisation" of Echoes fighters, I'm thinking Chrom actually have a true shot at getting in.

Three Awakening characters though? Is Chrom no longer apart of Robin’s final smash?

 

[Khao]

Crazy idea:

How would you feel if every single character in the game has an Echo?

 

[ninthetic]

Crazy idea:

How would you feel if every single character in the game has an Echo?

a good 40% of the roster wouldn't even work for a clone

 

[Pakky]

Might be a contreversial opinion, but if you are setting your expectations to more than 6-8 new characters, your setting your expectations way too high.
There's not many spots left on the roster, and only 2-3 more directs to show off information (not even counting unlockables hidden until after release) IMO it's likely we get Belmont and a few others and that's about it. It's going to be a rough time for character speculation for those who survived today, as the survivors will scrap for what remains...

I agree 5-7 including Belmont seems about right.

Namco's probably getting a guy, if not Soul Calibur then Lloyd

Pokemon: Seventh gen might get a rep but due to the state of things now, I am unsure.

Rool based on that costume feels just out of arms reach

Dixie feels real as well.

Elma or Rex with Pyra and or multiple blades seems possible

The rest could go in an array of directions

Rayman seems possible as do Rabbids ect.

Impa would be great as an echo or otherwise.

 

[FalcoXP]

Crazy idea:

How would you feel if every single character in the game has an Echo?

That would be kinda cool... Raiden as Snake's echo and Ken as Ryu's echo would be great

 

[papagenos]

Three Awakening characters though? Is Chrom no longer apart of Robin’s final smash?

I really want confirmation on this too, ive been "cutting" possible characters all day watching assist trophies and stuff get revealed, we are actually getting to a pretty low grab bag of likely newcomers left, a lot easier to speculate now.

 

[P.Kat]

God, Zelda is just gorgeous in this. I'm actually glad they didn't go with BoTW Zelda now.

I personally wish they went with Skyward Sword, but ALBW Zelda would be my next choice. Also in the gameplay we've seen of her, is it just me, or does Zelda look like she has shorter frame data a less end lag on her moves?

 

[Murlough]

Does the amount of damage the grabbed target has affect how quickly he/she can break free from Flame Choke? If so, then it'll probably be very tough for a high damaged target to escape Ganondorf's suicide tactics.

Yeah, thats probably how they did I (I'm not positive) but its still unnecessary. If Ganon landed that on you in Smash 4 it was completely fair and balanced. If he missed you could do whatever you wanted to him. If he just grabbed the edge again you could spike him.

Now he just has an extra handycap even though he was bottom tier last game.

 

[SmashChu]

I really don't get the negative reception this game is receiving. This is, quite literally, the ultimate Smash experience, bringing all of these amazing characters from every facet of Nintendo(plus some guests)'s library together to duke it out, yet people still aren't impressed. I honestly think this fanbase is impossible to please.

The thing is the detractors (myself include) wanted a new game. We wanted new stages, new features and new characters. This game is the exact opposite and is "hey all the characters are back."

Think about it this way. Smash is usually a once per system game. This means that we'll likely have to wait half a decade for the next title. So, if you wanted a lot of new stuff (as in things you didn't see before), you will be waiting about a decade for that in total (as Smash Wii U came out in 2014). You're basically just getting things you've seen before in a single package. And when it comes to displaying the worlds of Nintendo we will have to wait that long. A game that came out in 2015 may not get represented in Smash Bros until 2024 (based on a 6 year lifecycle). Usually Smash Bros games come with a ton of new things, including a whole array of new characters. Here, you're not getting that. In fact, looking at 4Chan, the discussion is dominated on "is this a port of not." Back when Brawl was going on, the site was dominated with discussion of the game in general. Pokemon Trainer took up the entire first page. Smash threads are also having a problem getting off the ground and get knocked down to the bottom pages. I expect traffic here will slow greatly.

Basically, people want new things. If I want old things, I'd just go play Brawl (which I might have to do at this rate)

 

[StrangeMann]

I want to note that both Ridley and Inklings have promising aspects of their designs that could make them viable characters.
The debuffs and mobility of the inklings are unrivaled: They can pretty much melee dashdance in their own ink, and have pretty decent range/resources. Resource/map management and movement are going to make or break the people who play this character.
Ridley's Down B is a very promising move, but it's a bit situational. I would argue it's better than rest because in a 1 vs 1, if you land that move, you can probably combo a forward smash due to the enemy falling down and taking 60%, at which point you've gained pretty much a stock lead. His viability probably hinges on the hitboxes and lag/startup of his down B. His neutral B, Side B, and some of his aerials also look pretty good but I don't know for sure.
Cloud was gutted allegedly, Limit lasting only 15 seconds is a major nerf to his passive playstyle.
Bayo recieved small nerfs iirc, but that's likely to change if we believe bear saying sakurai was frowning after bayo 0-deathed ridley.
Snake sounds REALLY good from what people are saying about him: Some of what we saw from Leo definately feels like we're seeing brawl snake's strengths resurface.
Pokemon Trainer could be very powerful due to the buffs and removed debuffs associated with this character.
No strong opinions on most other characters yet.

 

[Garteam]

Although I'd rather she be her own character, how would you feel if Gardevoir was an Echo Character of Zelda?

Honestly, I think Hilda would be a much better echo character for Zelda. I mean they're using her ALBW design and she doesn't have Hilda as a palette swap, so it honestly seems pretty likely.

 

[Radical Bones]

We have three newcomers thus far, and I can see another 7-10 added. I know Sakurai was tempering our expectations, and rightly so, but it's not that unbelievable to think there'll be 10 newcomers in Smash Bros Ultimate.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

So what are the chances of Isabelle being an echo fighter?

 

[Radical Bones]

I'd love if Tails got in as Sonic's Echo

 

[ninthetic]

Shadow is basically confirmed, which is very welcome by me. He's cute.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

So what are the chances of Isabelle being an echo fighter?

Until her assist trophy is seen, unlikley but possible.

 

[EMT~]

The invitational for those who want to see it and haven't:

 

[StrangeMann]

We have three newcomers thus far, and I can see another 7-10 added. I know Sakurai was tempering our expectations, and rightly so, but it's not that unbelievable to think there'll be 10 newcomers in Smash Bros Ultimate.

10 including Inkling, Ridley, and (likely) belmont leaves 7.
Speculation is going to be rough for the rest of this game's cycle. Many characters (rest in peace waluigi) have burned in deconfirmation, and among the limited roster spots available, there's easily still around 14 or so popular characters.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but anyone expecting another pokemon rep doesn't notice we just got (arguably) 3 new playable pokemon characters. If we got another, it would be a shock to me.

 

[N3ON]

Shadow is basically confirmed, which is very welcome by me. He's cute.

wat


Don't infract me Irene my incredulity speaks for itself.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Although I'd rather she be her own character, how would you feel if Gardevoir was an Echo Character of Zelda?

Could work with Light screen, will o wisp and teleport replacing her specials.

Question is, Gallade summon for the down special or new move altogether?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Yeah, thats probably how they did I (I'm not positive) but its still unnecessary. If Ganon landed that on you in Smash 4 it was completely fair and balanced. If he missed you could do whatever you wanted to him. If he just grabbed the edge again you could spike him.

Now he just has an extra handycap even though he was bottom tier last game.

If fighters can break free from the grounded Flame Choke as well, then there definitely is a notable problem that probably should be looked at.

 

[Murlough]

Just wondering out of curiosity: Why do some people think we will get 8-10 new characters in this game?

Because they want at least 8-10 newcomers.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Do we have a confirmation that Daisy floats?

She's an echo character, its safe to say that she floats

 

[Splotim]

Does anyone remember when they said that final destination is going to be different in the full game? I wonder why they felt the need to stress that. Maybe FD has some kind of spoiler (story mode?) so they replaced it with omega battlefield for e3.

 

[SquashiniKun]

I've decided to update my newcomer predictions so it fits in with the whole "Less Newcomers" thing sakurai said, i made two versions of it, One of Twelve characters, the other with Eight characters.

8 Character Version

12 Character Version

 

[ErenJager]

I'm curious, why everybody is talking about belmont as a confirmed char?

Bomberman's an AT.
A leak said Belmont.
uhh thats about it

 

[DBPirate]

So what are the chances of Isabelle being an echo fighter?

One of the only "requested character" Assist Trophies that wasn't shown (and Skull Kid, but his chances are quite low). I think she's in the game, though whether as a full-fledged original character or an echo I don't know. Probably an echo fighter.

Does anyone have characters that they still think we'll be getting with the confirmation of a smaller amount of newcomers? Personally, I think we'll see K. Rool and Geno due to fan support and the ballot, a new Pokémon, and Captain Toad. (maybe we'll get a confirmation on the day of his game's release?) Everyone else is up in the air.

 

[Kirbeh]

Does anyone remember when they said that final destination is going to be different in the full game? I wonder why they felt the need to stress that. Maybe FD has some kind of spoiler (story mode?) so they replaced it with omega battlefield for e3.

It might've been that the stage just isn't ready yet so they went with Omega Battlefield as a placeholder just to have a standard flat stage available for those that like to play on FD.

 

[UltimateWario]

Man guys I'm actually excited about this game now, I hope they keep patching it after release and actually manage to make it balanced. PM got patches constantly and by the end pretty much every character was viable, I'm not sure anyone was horrible. That was with a roster of under 40, BUT Sakurai has a professional, paid team behind him, so I'm hopeful.

 

[ninthetic]

wat


Don't infract me Irene my incredulity speaks for itself.

is "wat" referring to my furry-ism or shadow's high chance of getting in

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Took some time to think about what Echo Fighters could be and I think I cracked the code.

I think it's just a classification for true clones who have every move their original have but with different properties.

Just take a look at who are the known Echoes.

Lucina, a complete clone of Marth but without the tipper mechanic.
Dark Pit, a complete clone of Pit but with different knockback trajectory on side B and a unique Final Smash.
Daisy, who is confirmed to have the same moves as Peach with different properties.

And yet, other well known clones aren't classified that way. But they all have at least one move their original doesn't.

Dr. Mario has the stomp dair and the Down B Tornado.
Pichu has a headbutt up smash.
Young Link uses the Melee moveset, giving him a few differences, like non-remote bombs and the infinite jab.

So the Echo Fighters are truly "echoes" of whoever they're clones of, with nothing unique in terms of anything that isn't cosmetic (such as taunts or idle poses) or Final Smashes.

Also, JESUS CHRIST, 100 USERS!

 

[TMNTSSB4]

If there’s anybody who has any problems with the Ultimate Smash Bros...don’t care cause I’m still hyped for this game (everyone from the past coming back and a limited amount of newcomers and new stages makes things easier for predictions and the thirst of dlc/future titles)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, I was wrong earlier. Shadow wasn't confirmed as an AT. He'd be okay with me as an Echo Fighter or unique playable character. As long as the chaos moves are there, heh.

That said, I don't know if I should get a Switch or Xbox One right away. I own Xbox One games, so... yeah.

 

[Ignoritus]

I don't really see anyone discussing this bombshell?

https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/about/index.html

The website explicitly says "66 fighters". We have 65 fighters revealed with one being pseudo-confirmed by the Vergeben leak.
Are they suggesting will only have 3 newcomers this game or....?