Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[FunAtParties]

In my opinion, any damn series can outnumber the Mario franchise as long as they bring something fresh to the table. Let Fire Emblem get 18 reps if Sakurai wills it, as long as they're not a clonefest.

Let's not get carried away...

 

[Luminario]

Let's not get carried away...

Lets just go crazy! 20 different FE Lords with Swords for Smash Switch~ in All Star mode they all fuse together to create one giant Falchion.

 

[Zerp]

Spoiler: Some thoughts on representation

I personally think representatives do matter, and that there should be at least somewhat proportional representation for the franchises, like, it's not upsetting to me that Fire Emblem has more reps and overall content in Smash than Donkey Kong, but it having so much more that it's got a four character (or two clone and two character) lead over it kind of is, given that's the content people actually care about. Bias for one similar sized fanbase/franchise over another is great for the fanbase/franchise receiving more content, but also jealousy inducing for the other because it isn't a much larger franchise getting more stuff than them and it just comes across as the other one being the teacher's pet. If someone went back in time, flipped the representation between DK and FE, and DK had 6 characters , Dixie Kong (clone), Funky Kong (clone), King K. Rool and Cranky Kong while Fire Emblem had just and , and noone knew FE ever had 6 reps, I'm assuming parts of DK's fanbase would defend this with sales data of the classic DKC games and how these characters are all fun additions with a strong legacy, while the Fire Emblem fanbase would be very verbally upset about it (and so would I), not because they're immature or something, but because it's actually kind of ridiculous, just like how the opposite situation is.

I feel that all franchises within the same tier of importance should have representation somewhat similar to eachother, and personally, I think they should at most be only 1 character and 1 clone apart from eachother,. Now, it's fine if Mario overshadows Kid Icarus, if Pikmin gets overshadowed by Fire Emblem, or even if Kirby is overshadowed by Pokemon, because they're way less important than the series overshadowing them, but in my opinion something like Donkey Kong shouldn't be getting overshadowed by Fire Emblem because it isn't way less important than Fire Emblem is.

 

[Schnee117]

Limiting the amount of characters a series has as playable based on how well a series has done is really silly because some franchises (Metroid and Zelda for example) simply don't have a sizeable enough cast whereas others have far bigger casts (Fire Emblem for example) to draw from.

 

[Zerp]

Limiting the amount of characters a series has as playable based on how well a series has done is really silly because some franchises (Metroid and Zelda for example) simply don't have a sizeable enough cast whereas others have far bigger casts (Fire Emblem for example) to draw from.

I get what you're saying, if a franchise doesn't have any more characters to give, then they don't deserve to get more, and I actually agree with that, however if they do have some reasonable options like in my opinion DK, Kirby, Metroid (DSamus (potentially a clone/semi-clone), Ridley, and potentially Sylux in the future could all work imo) and Zelda (I'd argue Ganon, Tingle, and Vaati are all worthy of Smash on their own merits as well) all do have enough of, then I believe they shouldn't be overshadowed by others of a similar size, so in this case the way I'd handle it would be that Fire Emblem wouldn't get any new additions until all those aforementioned series get close enough in representation, like, once they all have 5-6 reps, is that really all that silly or unfair?

 

[Schnee117]

is that really all that silly or unfair?

You're still arbitrarily limiting potential additions to the roster based on the number of characters that are playable from represented franchises though. Yeah it's smaller scale but in the end it's still an arbitrary limitation that'll prevent some characters from being playable.

I'd love to see characters like Ridley and Cranky get in but they should get in without having to apply limitations on which characters should be added.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Spoiler: Some thoughts on representation

I personally think representatives do matter, and that there should be at least somewhat proportional representation for the franchises, like, it's not upsetting to me that Fire Emblem has more reps and overall content in Smash than Donkey Kong, but it having so much more that it's got a four character (or two clone and two character) lead over it kind of is, given that's the content people actually care about. Bias for one similar sized fanbase/franchise over another is great for the fanbase/franchise receiving more content, but also jealousy inducing for the other because it isn't a much larger franchise getting more stuff than them and it just comes across as the other one being the teacher's pet. If someone went back in time, flipped the representation between DK and FE, and DK had 6 characters , Dixie Kong (clone), Funky Kong (clone), King K. Rool and Cranky Kong while Fire Emblem had just and , and noone knew FE ever had 6 reps, I'm assuming parts of DK's fanbase would defend this with sales data of the classic DKC games and how these characters are all fun additions with a strong legacy, while the Fire Emblem fanbase would be very verbally upset about it (and so would I), not because they're immature or something, but because it's actually kind of ridiculous, just like how the opposite situation is.

I feel that all franchises within the same tier of importance should have representation somewhat similar to eachother, and personally, I think they should at most be only 1 character and 1 clone apart from eachother,. Now, it's fine if Mario overshadows Kid Icarus, if Pikmin gets overshadowed by Fire Emblem, or even if Kirby is overshadowed by Pokemon, because they're way less important than the series overshadowing them, but in my opinion something like Donkey Kong shouldn't be getting overshadowed by Fire Emblem because it isn't way less important than Fire Emblem is.

Honestly speaking, if the situation was reversed with DK getting 6 characters and FE just stayed with two, less people would have been upset just by virtue of Donkey Kong being a more iconic franchise than Fire Emblem. In this scenario, a lot of people would defend the idea of FE just getting two arguing that neither FE as a franchise nor any FE character (not featured in Smash at that point) is anywhere as iconic as the DK franchise and characters and thus FE fans are being "self-entitled" for thinking FE should get another character at all.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I agree with Oppossum that no series needs new characters, but if any series could use some more it would be Metroid.

I just don't believe in adding characters just to increase numbers. That's what I meant when I said "need". I don't think Metroid could use more characters specifically because there aren't any that warrant being included as playable characters imo.

If you're reason for adding a character is because you want a particular series to have more characters, then you're adding characters for the wrong reason.

You're looking at things through an artificial lens. It's like yeah, Fire Emblem has more characters than The Legend of Zelda, but that's because there ARE more characters and they all have reasonable merits.

"Yeah, I added a character that hardly has any relevance among Nintendo's history, but ya gotta understand, I'm desperate to make sure every universe has an equal number of characters."

I think it's been heavily indicated that Sakurai doesn't do things that way. It's why Star Fox has more characters than Donkey Kong and Kid Icarus has more characters than Yoshi.

Honestly speaking, if the situation was reversed with DK getting 6 characters and FE just stayed with two, less people would have been upset just by virtue of Donkey Kong being a more iconic franchise than Fire Emblem. In this scenario, a lot of people would defend the idea of FE just getting two arguing that neither FE as a franchise nor any FE character (not featured in Smash at that point) is anywhere as iconic as the DK franchise and characters and thus FE fans are being "self-entitled" for thinking FE should get another character at all.

It doesn't matter which series is more iconic. What matters is which CHARACTERS are more iconic.

I'd rather have Marth, Roy, Ike, Lucina, Robin, and Corrin.
As apposed to Yoshi, Poochy, Magikoopa, Baby Bowser, and Salvo The Slime (Unless it was Baby Bowser from Mario Party. I'd be in heaven!)

A series being iconic doesn't mean anything when nobody recognizes or cares about the characters that are in it. Or if they don't bring anything to the table. That's why we have Ice Climber and not Balloon Fight.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I wouldn't be surprised if we never go through a Smash game without getting a new Mario related character (that includes characters from the Wario and Donkey Kong series) added to it.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I wouldn't be surprised if we never go through a Smash game without getting a new Mario related character (that includes characters from the Wario and Donkey Kong series) added to it.

Pauline.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Pauline.

I think Pauline is pretty far down on the totem pole.

If we're including characters from DKC and the Wario games, she's even lower.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I think Pauline is pretty far down on the totem pole.

If we're including characters from DKC and the Wario games, she's even lower.

She's more likely than any Wario character and Donkey Kong Country already has every character necessary. She's not even a Donkey Kong COUNTRY character. So yeah, not much competition there.

That's just a bad premise for determining the likeliness for her inclusion.

 

[Deleted member]

I think Pauline is pretty far down on the totem pole.

If we're including characters from DKC and the Wario games, she's even lower.

Pauline is a prime example of how people tend to jump the gun with character predictions.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I feel like i must be reading conversation wrong but ill jump in anyway

She's more likely than any Wario character and Donkey Kong Country already has every character necessary. She's not even a Donkey Kong COUNTRY character. So yeah, not much competition there.

That's just a bad premise for determining the likeliness for her inclusion.

If DK "already has every character necessary" now then mario would be way beyond that by the time they would get to pauline

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

If Pauline's role in Odyssey was as important as Rosalina's role in Galaxy then I would see her as a likely pick for Smash, but from what we've seen it looks like she has a somewhat important role in the New Donk City level and that's it.

We also have to take into account moveset potential. What way would she be unique from the rest of the cast? All we've every seen her do is stand around, and I guess she sing now in Odyssey.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I feel like i must be reading conversation wrong but ill jump in anyway

If DK "already has every character necessary" now then mario would be way beyond that by the time they would get to pauline

Who the hell is next in line for Mario? They already added Bowser Jr. & Rosalina.

What is this illogical premise that roster picking is some kind of assembly line of "Dis character's next and then that one and then this one."???

Sakurai talked about how he considered adding Geno and you're talking about other Mario characters being "next in line"???.

Oh, we can't have a new Fire Emblem character, because the more iconic Donkey Kong Country is NEXT IN LINE!

Pauline actually has good reason to be added. Can we stop this stupid bull **** about who we think is "Next in line!" and actually look at characters based on their merit alone?

If Pauline's role in Odyssey was as important as Rosalina's role in Galaxy then I would see her as a likely pick for Smash, but from what we've seen it looks like she has a somewhat important role in the New Donk City level and that's it.

Yeah, that's what everyone remembers Pauline from. Not the Donkey Kong games. You know. The iconic game even non gamers recognize that started Nintendo's popularity.

No, it's all dependent on her role in Super Mario Odyssey because I saw the E3 trailer and she was in that.

We also have to take into account moveset potential. What way would she be unique from the rest of the cast? All we've every seen her do is stand around, and I guess she sing now in Odyssey.

So a character's move set potential is based on the ability of a Smash fan on a forum to come up with one? I guess by that logic we can't have Pac-Man or Captain Falcon either.

 

[FunAtParties]

I just don't believe in adding characters just to increase numbers. That's what I meant when I said "need". I don't think Metroid could use more characters specifically because there aren't any that warrant being included as playable characters imo.

If you're reason for adding a character is because you want a particular series to have more characters, then you're adding characters for the wrong reason.

You're looking at things through an artificial lens. It's like yeah, Fire Emblem has more characters than The Legend of Zelda, but that's because there ARE more characters and they all have reasonable merits.

"Yeah, I added a character that hardly has any relevance among Nintendo's history, but ya gotta understand, I'm desperate to make sure every universe has an equal number of characters."

I think it's been heavily indicated that Sakurai doesn't do things that way. It's why Star Fox has more characters than Donkey Kong and Kid Icarus has more characters than Yoshi.

I'm actually kind of insulted by this post. You completely downplay any significance Metroid characters other than Samus and LoZ characters outside of the triforce, have to Nintendo, while also overplaying the importance of Fire Emblem characters that tend to serve as one time characters that are more than likely going to lose significance in Nintendo's history over time. And I'm the one who's looking at this through a special lens? Lol.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I'm actually kind of insulted by this post. You completely downplay any significance Metroid characters other than Samus and LoZ characters outside of the triforce, have to Nintendo, while also overplaying the importance of Fire Emblem characters that tend to serve as one time characters that are more than likely going to lose significance in Nintendo's history over time. And I'm the one who's looking at this through a special lens? Lol.

Well if I'm looking through a special lens than so is Sakurai because those are the choices he made. Corrin and Robin were relevant, popular, and somewhat well known at the time they were added. Vaati and Sylux were not. So what about that confuses you?

Pauline is a prime example of how people tend to jump the gun with character predictions.

Jump the gun meaning immediately dismissing counter intuitive proposals without a second of consideration?

Are you implying that I brought up Pauline because of Super Mario Odyssey? I'm insulted that you would paint me as such a dimwitted person. I brought her up because she is an iconic character from an iconic game: DONKEY KONG.

Nice of you to just set up a strawman straight from the getgo.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Who the hell is next in line for Mario? They already added Bowser Jr. & Rosalina.

What is this illogical premise that roster picking is some kind of assembly line of "Dis character's next and then that one and then this one."???

Sakurai talked about how he considered adding Geno and you're talking about other Mario characters being "next in line"???.

Oh, we can't have a new Fire Emblem character, because the more iconic Donkey Kong Country is NEXT IN LINE!

Pauline actually has good reason to be added. Can we stop this stupid bull **** about who we think is "Next in line!" and actually look at characters based on their merit alone?



Yeah, that's what everyone remembers Pauline from. Not the Donkey Kong games. You know. The iconic game even non gamers recognize that started Nintendo's popularity.

No, it's all dependent on her role in Super Mario Odyssey because I saw the E3 trailer and she was in that.


So a character's move set potential is based on the ability of a Smash fan on a forum to come up with one? I guess by that logic we can't have Pac-Man or Captain Falcon either.

I need more than "Pauline was in an iconic Nintendo game".

Please try to convince me that she's the next best choice for a Mario related character.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I need more than "Pauline was in an iconic Nintendo game".

Please try to convince me that she's the next best choice for a Mario related character.

I never said she was a Mario character. I consider her a Donkey Kong character. But, can we not argue about an arbitrary ****ing character emblem? I already explained why you're standard is a false premise. I'm not gonna have a "Next best character" argument with you. That's not how it works.

Pauline is the first damsel in distress. She's an iconic Nintendo arcade character (which is enough basis alone) who has appeared in numerous games.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't think you've touched upon her moveset potential.

Pauline hasn't been shown to do anything.

Even Zelda in Melee (who only had Sheik really) had more to work with.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I never said she was a Mario character. I consider her a Donkey Kong character. But, can we not argue about an arbitrary ****ing character emblem? I already explained why you're standard is a false premise.

Pauline is the first damsel in distress. She's an iconic Nintendo arcade character (which is enough basis alone) who has appeared in numerous games.

I said Mario RELATED character. I'm counting the DK series along with that.

And earlier you said she was more likely than any DK or Wario character and implied she was more likely than any Mario character, so...

 

[PiChuChu]

Popular/relevant characters with potential for a great moveset get into Smash. The reason people think that "This character is next in line for SMASH!" is because there are still characters that are iconic and would fit perfectly into Smash. Development time and resources are limited, so Sakurai and his team have to pick the characters that will be best received when the game comes out. Sakurai can't put in a ton of out-of-left-field characters over more well-known and loved characters unless he wants a bunch of backlash from fans (see: Corrin, Bayonetta). This is why people consider some characters more likely than others.

Now, what would Pauline do (as a DK rep)? Swing her purse around? Stomp the ground and make jacks fly from off screen? IMO, Dixie/Cranky/Funky Kong or K. Rool would be representatives of the DK series AS A WHOLE. And really, what makes Pauline such a special snowflake anyway? She's even more (at this moment, we'll see) obscure than Daisy/Waluigi, who appear in every Mario spin-off game under the sun. Overall, Pauline lacks in uniqueness - anything she can do, another character can do better. It'd be better off to save Pauline for Smash until she has some actual moveset potential to work with that wouldn't go against her portrayal (because she has never shown the ability to summon DK items).

 

[Deleted member]

Jump the gun meaning immediately dismissing counter intuitive proposals without a second of consideration?

Are you implying that I brought up Pauline because of Super Mario Odyssey? I'm insulted that you would paint me as such a dimwitted person. I brought her up because she is an iconic character from an iconic game: DONKEY KONG.

Nice of you to just set up a strawman straight from the getgo.

A. Was not talking to you, was talking to Swamp. Hell, wasn't even talking about you in the first place but rather the idea of Pauline in general being a subject that's brought up lately.

B. My point was that people make jumps in predictions based on immediate news about upcoming titles, with Pauline being no exception. The ONLY reason Pauline is even brought up in context of Smash by anyone at this point is because of the recent news that she was in Odyssey. Before the news, you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone discussing about her.

C. With that in mind, you're not fooling anyone into believing you only brought her up because of her debut role in Donkey Kong. We literally wouldn't be having this conversation right now if it weren't for Odyssey.

D. I have had you set to Ignore for months now. The only reason I'm even replying to you right now is because I happened to see this when I clicked the "view ignored posts" button for context in what exactly has everyone's knickers in a twist.
I neither saw nor cared about your post in the first place when I said what I said, so how in the Hell could I be going out of my way to set up a strawman about you?

E. With that in mind, don't expect any further replies due to the whole "I have you set to Ignore" thing.

F. Calm yo' ****, dawg.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

The ONLY reason Pauline is even brought up in context of Smash by anyone at this point is because of the recent news that she was in Odyssey.

Than why am I talking about her now and why have I been talking about her for over a year?

With that in mind, you're not fooling anyone into believing you only brought her up because of her debut role in Donkey Kong. We literally wouldn't be having this conversation right now if it weren't for Odyssey.

https://smashboards.com/threads/ear...eal-or-prediction.435513/page-6#post-21571914
Try doing some research before you open your mouth. You're just the worst kind of person on this site.

I said Mario RELATED character. I'm counting the DK series along with that.

And earlier you said she was more likely than any DK or Wario character and implied she was more likely than any Mario character, so...

So what?

 

[Opossum]

A. Was not talking to you, was talking to Swamp. Hell, wasn't even talking about you in the first place but rather the idea of Pauline in general being a subject that's brought up lately.

B. My point was that people make jumps in predictions based on immediate news about upcoming titles, with Pauline being no exception. The ONLY reason Pauline is even brought up in context of Smash by anyone at this point is because of the recent news that she was in Odyssey. Before the news, you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone discussing about her.

C. With that in mind, you're not fooling anyone into believing you only brought her up because of her debut role in Donkey Kong. We literally wouldn't be having this conversation right now if it weren't for Odyssey.

D. I have had you set to Ignore for months now. The only reason I'm even replying to you right now is because I happened to see this when I clicked the "view ignored posts" button for context in what exactly has everyone's knickers in a twist.
I neither saw nor cared about your post in the first place when I said what I said, so how in the Hell could I be going out of my way to set up a strawman about you?

E. With that in mind, don't expect any further replies due to the whole "I have you set to Ignore" thing.

F. Calm yo' ****, dawg.

In his defense, I remember him bringing up Pauline as a contender since way before we knew she was in Odyssey. I think it was in the roster thread.

Edit:

 

[TheLastJinjo]

In his defense, I remember him bringing up Pauline as a contender since way before we knew she was in Odyssey. I think it was in the roster thread.

I'm trying so hard not rage on GoldenYuitussin. "I'm gonna insult you and lie about your arguments and then set you to ignore because you're views I made up are absurd and beneath me."

Gets 2 Likes. Give me strength.

 

[Opossum]

I'm trying so hard not rage on GoldenYuitussin. "I'm gonna insult you and lie about your arguments and then set you to ignore because you're views I made up are absurd and beneath me."

Gets 2 Likes. Give me strength.

I mean, in his defense as well, not everyone goes to every thread. That and you could calm down a bit, I think. Getting this worked up isn't good for anyone, be it yourself or others.

Just trying to keep the peace is all.

 

[FunAtParties]

Well if I'm looking through a special lens than so is Sakurai because those are the choices he made. Corrin and Robin were relevant, popular, and somewhat well known at the time they were added. Vaati and Sylux were not. So what about that confuses you?


Jump the gun meaning immediately dismissing counter intuitive proposals without a second of consideration?

Are you implying that I brought up Pauline because of Super Mario Odyssey? I'm insulted that you would paint me as such a dimwitted person. I brought her up because she is an iconic character from an iconic game: DONKEY KONG.

Nice of you to just set up a strawman straight from the getgo.

The whole argument for Sylux in this and other threads is that Sylux may actually be relevant by the time Smash 5 comes out. Or did you just choose to ignore that?

For whatever reason Vaati was brought into this, I personally believe he's played a large enough role in that series to be awarded an opportunity. That being said, he's not that popular, so it doesn't really hurt thay he's not there.

Also lol at Corrin being relevant OR popular at the time of their inclusion. They weren't even announced in the West yet and they sure as **** weren't popular overseas, no one knew who the **** they were, and Sakurai even admitted to them being included partly as a marketing decision.

 

[Opossum]

The whole argument for Sylux in this and other threads is that Sylux may actually be relevant by the time Smash 5 comes out. Or did you just choose to ignore that?

For whatever reason Vaati was brought into this, I personally believe he's played a large enough role in that series to be awarded an opportunity. That being said, he's not that popular, so it doesn't really hurt thay he's not there.

Also lol at Corrin being relevant OR popular at the time of their inclusion. They weren't even announced in the West yet and they sure as **** weren't popular overseas, no one knew who the **** they were, and Sakurai even admitted to them being included partly as a marketing decision.

Correction on the Corrin bit.

Fates didn't release in the West yet. It was already out in Japan for several months and the west definitely knew about the game and Corrin.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You're just the worst kind of person on this site.

F. Calm yo' ****, dawg.

Jinjo.

Take Golden's advice.

You're getting way too personal about something that wasn't even heated.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Let me try to go in to detail as to why I am beyond frustrated. Let's start with WHY I think Pauline is a likely addition.

Pauline is an iconic character. She was the first damsel in distress from one of the most iconic Arcade games. She is an important part of Nintendo's history and she continues to make cameos. The concept of a pure damsel brings an interesting idea for a character in a fighting game. She is basically a retro character in the sense that Little Mac is. She appears in newer games, but the reason she is iconic is because of that classic appearance that everyone knows her/him from.

Now here's where the frustration comes in:

So rather than addressing those merits, I get excuses made to immediately dismiss even addressing or discussing said merits for a second.

First is the false premise that character additions are centered around who the better choice is. I could bring up that Sakurai had previously considered such characters as Geno and Krystal, which isn't an argument to lower standards, but an argument against the notion that there is an assembly line of characters ordered from most important to least important (Let's not forget Rosalina was added way before Bowser Jr. was about to get cut, a character with way more prevalence in the Super Mario Universe.)

It's just as arbitrary and nonsensical as the notion that a less iconic universe can't have more characters than a more important universe. Characters are usually added because they bring something unique, are popular, or have a significant place in Nintendo's history. And I believe Pauline fits all these criteria.

Next I get GoldenYuittussin condescendingly telling me that I'm not fooling anyone when I say I'm proposing Pauline for any other reason than that she was in Odyssey. Here's me talking about Pauline LAST YEAR: https://smashboards.com/threads/ear...eal-or-prediction.435513/page-6#post-21571914

So he's completely full of ****.

Then I'm told Pauline is unlikely because she doesn't have a moveset. This frustrates me because that implies that Sakurai's talent when coming up with move sets is comparable to that of a Smash fanboy sitting on his computer.

Sakurai has created move sets for characters such as Pac-Man, Captain Falcon, FOX, etc. He did that because he is a talented ************. So please don't come to be and tell me that he can't come up with a moveset for Pauline because YOU can't think of anything. Pauline has endless material from the Donkey Kong Arcade games & Mario VS Donkey Kong. She could even use a parasol if she wanted, not as a recovery, but as a weapon. But, for any of us to sit here and talk about the potential of a character's abilities like we know how Sakurai's mind works is absurd.

So in conclusion, no actual conversation about her merits as a character. Immediate dismissals, distortions of my position, and arbitrary discussions about what universe a character belongs to. I bet if I got a time machine and went back to talk about Wii Fit Trainer I'd be getting the same "There's no way she'd get in over such and such"

If you're only argument is who she wouldn't get in over, then basically you don't have one. There's plenty of super popular characters that don't get in in favor of retro additions and novelty characters and what not.

You're just saying "This character may have reasons to get in, but I'm going to dismiss all of them in favor of: This character is more popular so they win automatically! **** Ice Climber! Balloon Fighter wins!"

So now I'm gonna respond to this next comment and be done unless people want to actually discuss Pauline's merits themselves which I would greatly appreciate. Instead of talking about reprusuntation and character emblems and who's more popular.

PiChuChu

Spoiler: Response to your comment

Now, what would Pauline do (as a DK rep)? Swing her purse around? Stomp the ground and make jacks fly from off screen?

That's an argument from incredulity and a lack of imagination.

And really, what makes Pauline such a special snowflake anyway? She's even more (at this moment, we'll see) obscure than Daisy/Waluigi, who appear in every Mario spin-off game under the sun.

I don't understand why that's a merit. Appearing in a bunch of games doesn't warrant an inclusion. There's tons of characters who appear in tons of games. Toad appears in more games than Bowser Jr. and Bowser Jr. appears in more games than Rosalina so what's your point?

Overall, Pauline lacks in uniqueness - anything she can do, another character can do better.

What if I just went around reviewing people's rosters and went "Nope. Not gonna happen. I can't think of a moveset for that character.

she has never shown the ability to summon DK items).

Nor has Duck Hunt shown the ability to summon Wild Gunmen.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

t doesn't matter which series is more iconic. What matters is which CHARACTERS are more iconic.

I'd rather have Marth, Roy, Ike, Lucina, Robin, and Corrin.
As apposed to Yoshi, Poochy, Magikoopa, Baby Bowser, and Salvo The Slime (Unless it was Baby Bowser from Mario Party. I'd be in heaven!)

A series being iconic doesn't mean anything when nobody recognizes or cares about the characters that are in it. Or if they don't bring anything to the table. That's why we have Ice Climber and not Balloon Fight.

Problem with that iconic character argument is that none of the Fire Emblem characters are iconic with the exception of Marth (but only in Japan) and had it not been for Smash to begin with, all of the FE characters would have been completely obscure seeing as FE being released in the west is only because of the reception Marth and Roy had in Melee which wouldn't have been possible if iconicness was as important a criteria as you think it should.

Also lol at Corrin being relevant O popular at the time of their inclusion. They weren't even announced in the West yet and they sure as **** weren't popular overseas, no one knew who the **** they were, and Sakurai even admitted to them being included partly as a marketing decision.

Even the far more popular female Corrin got crushed in popularity in that FE poll by less recent characters, let alone male Corrin and tons of FE fans complain about Corrin. So even then, Corrin's not really all that popular, especially in comparison to someone like Lucina.

Popular/relevant characters with potential for a great moveset get into Smash. The reason people think that "This character is next in line for SMASH!" is because there are still characters that are iconic and would fit perfectly into Smash. Development time and resources are limited, so Sakurai and his team have to pick the characters that will be best received when the game comes out. Sakurai can't put in a ton of out-of-left-field characters over more well-known and loved characters unless he wants a bunch of backlash from fans (see: Corrin, Bayonetta

Bayonetta was a popular character. It's only Corrin that was an unpopular pick and pretty much the least popular and weakest received DLC character.

 

[PiChuChu]

So, how would you guys feel if we got 2 different Ganondorfs in the next Smash, like the Project Ganondorf mod for PM?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Jinjo.

Take Golden's advice.

You're getting way too personal about something that wasn't even heated.

Please don't defend a person who directly insults me and lies about me, like his comments, patronize me, tell me to calm down, and then tell me "I'm taking this way to personally."

Like you're being calm and reasonable. You wouldn't be saying anything if Golden told someone to think before they talk.

 

[A Distant Demon]

just saying, corrin was super popular in japan when the game first came out based on our oblnly real data, being the mist popular female character in a famitsu poll and if memory serves 4th most popular male. and since japan was the only market at the time with the western opinion wasnt really a factor yet

a minor detail

 

[Schnee117]

Even the far more popular female Corrin got crushed in popularity in that FE poll by less recent characters, let alone male Corrin and tons of FE fans complain about Corrin. So even then, Corrin's not really all that popular, especially in comparison to someone like Lucina.

Female Corrin was in the top 5 for the female side in the Heroes poll behind only Lyn, Lucina and the dynamic ***** duo of Tharja and Camilla.

That's not "getting crushed" in spite of the difference in number of votes when she did better than loads of characters.

 

[PiChuChu]

just saying, corrin was super popular in japan when the game first came out based on our oblnly real data, being the mist popular female character in a famitsu poll and if memory serves 4th most popular male. and since japan was the only market at the time with the western opinion wasnt really a factor yet

a minor detail

Woah... if we combine F/M, then Corrin's definitely (or close to being) the overall winner. That's huge, and I doubt many of us know that. Corrin seems like they'd be an obvious choice now.

 

[Opossum]

Since people are going to be bringing it up, here is the official Heroes poll tally.
https://events.fire-emblem-heroes.com/vote/result?overall=1

Of note, when combining male and female characters, Female Corrin was ninth over all. Male Corrin was forty-first.

For others in Smash, Lucina was second over all, Ike was third over all and the most popular male (and first over all if you combine both versions of Ike), male Robin was sixteenth, Marth was twelfth, but that's with his two entries separated, which combined would be around eighth, and Roy was fifth over all.

When separated by gender, Ike, Roy, Marth, and Robin were in the male top ten, and Lucina, Female Corrin, and I THINK female Robin (but she was cutting it close) were in the female top ten.

Male Corrin was the only one that wasn't even close.

For Smash-related characters, Lyn was the highest voted female character and character over all if Ike's two versions are separated, while Chrom was the fourth highest male.

Hector, Tharja, and Camilla are the only characters in either section's top five that aren't in Smash at all.





Numbers, man.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

just saying, corrin was super popular in japan when the game first came out based on our oblnly real data, being the mist popular female character in a famitsu poll and if memory serves 4th most popular male. and since japan was the only market at the time with the western opinion wasnt really a factor yet

a minor detail

Popularity within a specific, relatively smaller fanbase (in comparison to the Smash fanbase) doesn't necessarily mean Corrin was a hugely popular Nintendo character in Japan to the point where the Japanese fanbase was rooting for him/her in Smash. (All that poll proves is that Corrin had more popularity than many other Fates characters in Japan and if there was a general Nintendo poll...actually, given how recent Fates was, Corrin would probably do decently for the same reason Pit scored highly in a Japanese poll taken around the time of Uprising's release). If that was the case, Sakurai would state Japanese popularity was the factor in Corrin's inclusion, just like he had no problem aknowledging Cloud being a popular fan demand as the reason why he is included over other Final Fantasy character

Also they chose the male version as the default option, who was the less popular version, so I have even further doubt popularity was a factor for Corrin's inclusion in Smash.

Tl;dr version Corrin may have been a pretty popular FE character, but that didn't necessarily translate to greater Smash demand which people tend to care more about, seeing as the Smash fanbase is much bigger in every region than the Fire Emblem fanbase.