Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[P.Kat]

What are the latest rumors and whispers on Wolf?

He's traveling with girl wearing a red hood.

 

[monadoboy]

Speaking of Star Fox characters...

I always have trouble envisioning a Champion from Breath of the Wild as a newcomer simply because I'm not sure how you prioritize one over the other. However, Star Fox did this pretty quickly in Melee, picking Falco over Peppy and Slippy. Was Falco really that much more stand-out?

If so, is there any Champion that obviously "stands out" above the other three?

I had one of those weird Smash dreams where they revealed all four Champions and they were hype as ****

If I had to guess, I'd say Mipha. I'd prefer Urbosa or Revali, but they all have interesting stuff to work with.

 

[Zeox]

He's traveling with girl wearing a red hood.

I thought that was just a totally normal grandma with big teeths...

 

[P.Kat]

I have no doubts that Wolf will get in Smash, at this point I'm more worried about Krystal's chances getting in.

 

[Cosmic77]

Speaking of Star Fox characters...

I always have trouble envisioning a Champion from Breath of the Wild as a newcomer simply because I'm not sure how you prioritize one over the other. However, Star Fox did this pretty quickly in Melee, picking Falco over Peppy and Slippy. Was Falco really that much more stand-out?

If so, is there any Champion that obviously "stands out" above the other three?

Hard to say. In terms of popularity, Mipha pretty much trumps the other three, especially in Japan. However, we don't even know if her popularity would've been known in time for Sakurai to make a decision, so I don't think the fans' response to the Champions is a solid way to gauge their likeliness.

Based on what the developers had to say about the Champions, it seems like Mipha and Urbosa are the ones who were made to stand out, mainly due to their connections with Link and Zelda respectively. They tried to make Revali more memorable by making him be the only Champion to dislike Link, but then they thought that might cause him to be unpopular among fans. They were so paranoid about this that they actually recreated Revali's theme during development so that people wouldn't see him as being purely malicious and cocky (which obviously didn't work very well). Daruk is...kinda just there. I can't really find much of anything that indicates that he was supposed to be one of the more memorable Champions.

You know, Mipha is being rated in the RTC thread tomorrow, and I made a long post talking about common arguments against the Champions and why they might be more likely than you think. If you have trouble vizualizing a Champion, why not read what I have to say? Might give you a better idea why people think they have a really good shot at getting in.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Speaking of Star Fox characters...

I always have trouble envisioning a Champion from Breath of the Wild as a newcomer simply because I'm not sure how you prioritize one over the other. However, Star Fox did this pretty quickly in Melee, picking Falco over Peppy and Slippy. Was Falco really that much more stand-out?

If so, is there any Champion that obviously "stands out" above the other three?

I believe the reason Falco was picked was not just because he'd be the most fitting Fox clone, but he was also the highest scoring Star Fox character in the Melee poll.

As for the Champions, given the roster would have been finalised long before Sakurai could know which of them would be the most popular, he'd have to choose based off what he feels is the most interesting, most likely through concept arts.

 

[grits0808]

Has the imgur leak been disproven?

Or the one saying Iceclimbers, Ridley, and Simon were rumored to be in?

I'm just trying to catch up.

 

[Zeox]

Has the imgur leak been disproven?

Or the one saying Iceclimbers, Ridley, and Simon were rumored to be in?

I'm just trying to catch up.

Nothing has been said but is very likely fake.
we have to wait for the first characters to be revealed to know for sure.

 

[RandomAce]

Speaking of Star Fox characters...

I always have trouble envisioning a Champion from Breath of the Wild as a newcomer simply because I'm not sure how you prioritize one over the other. However, Star Fox did this pretty quickly in Melee, picking Falco over Peppy and Slippy. Was Falco really that much more stand-out?

If so, is there any Champion that obviously "stands out" above the other three?

You can’t really compare the Star Fox crew to the Champions. In Star Fox, Falco was clearly shown to be the second main character of the series, with a lot of screen times Along with that and his aggressiveness and attitude, it’s a lot more easier to visualize Falco than the rest of the Star Fox crew which is why he was in Melee.

The Champions, however, are all on equal terms. All four receive the same amount of screen time, have unique characteristics and abilities, and all 4 even recieved amiibos.

But if I had to pick, it would be Mipha. She has a weapon no else has, and water abilities.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Speaking of Star Fox characters...

I always have trouble envisioning a Champion from Breath of the Wild as a newcomer simply because I'm not sure how you prioritize one over the other. However, Star Fox did this pretty quickly in Melee, picking Falco over Peppy and Slippy. Was Falco really that much more stand-out?

If so, is there any Champion that obviously "stands out" above the other three?

He's more popular, and has a sort of rivalry going on with Fox. Plus he seems far more able-bodied than the aging Peppy and the clumpsy Slippy.

Also really have a problem imagining one Champion getting in over the others, but I guess I could see Daruk make it because he's a heavy weight and Goron are far more of a Zelda franchise staple than Zoras, Rutos and Gerudos.

 

[P.Kat]

Hard to say. In terms of popularity, Mipha pretty much trumps the other three, especially in Japan. However, we don't even know if her popularity would've been known in time for Sakurai to make a decision, so I don't think the fans' response to the Champions is a solid way to gauge their likeliness.

Based on what the developers had to say about the Champions, it seems like Mipha and Urbosa are the ones who were made to stand out, mainly due to their connections with Link and Zelda respectively. They tried to make Revali more memorable by making him be the only Champion to dislike Link, but then they thought that might cause him to be unpopular among fans. They were so paranoid about this that they actually recreated Revali's theme during development so that people wouldn't see him as being purely malicious and cocky (which obviously didn't work very well). Daruk is...kinda just there. I can't really find much of anything that indicates that he was supposed to be one of the more memorable Champions.

You know, Mipha is being rated in the RTC thread tomorrow, and I made a long post talking about common arguments against the Champions and why they might be more likely than you think. If you have trouble vizualizing a Champion, why not read what I have to say? Might give you a better idea why people think they have a really good shot at getting in.

What weapon does Mipha uses? To my shame, I haven't played Breath of the Wild yet but I intend to.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

What weapon does Mipha uses? To my shame, I haven't played Breath of the Wild yet but I intend to.

a trident

she also has healing magic and we can assume general water magic abilities

He's more popular, and has a sort of rivalry going on with Fox. Plus he seems far more able-bodied than the aging Peppy and the clumpsy Slippy.

Also really have a problem imagining one Champion getting in over the others, but I guess I could see Daruk make it because he's a heavy weight and Goron are far more of a Zelda franchise staple than Zoras, Rutos and Gerudos.

The Zora's have actually been around longer than the gorons tho, they were enemies in the first game as well as many others

 

[Cosmic77]

What weapon does Mipha uses? To my shame, I haven't played Breath of the Wild yet but I intend to.

She fights with a trident (spear) called the Lightscale Trident.

(Edit: Aaaand MoonlitIlusion beat me to it with a picture and everything else.)

 

[AlphaSSB]

Speaking of Star Fox characters...

I always have trouble envisioning a Champion from Breath of the Wild as a newcomer simply because I'm not sure how you prioritize one over the other. However, Star Fox did this pretty quickly in Melee, picking Falco over Peppy and Slippy. Was Falco really that much more stand-out?

If so, is there any Champion that obviously "stands out" above the other three?

I'd say that a BotW Champion mostly is based on what they have to offer, and if Sakurai can envision it well. Personally, I think the order of Champions from least likely to most likely is: Daruk --> Revali --> Mipha --> Urbosa.

Daruk I personally don't see happening. Less interesting out of the four Champions, and I think he has the least to really offer.

Revali's chances, as strange as this may sound, I feel is dependent on Decidueye. The two are similar, being birds with bows, so I can see Revali being passed up on if Decidueye was chosen. However, if Decidueye was passed up on, then I'd say Revali actually has a decent shot.

Mipha has a weapon that'd be unique in Smash, and she has a strong connection with Link in Breath of the Wild. Not really too much to say, but I think she still has a decent shot overall.

Urbosa, I believe, was claimed to be the developer's favorite champion, so they may push for her if Sakurai comes looking for potential newcomers. She has a strong connection to Zelda, being her bodyguard, so she's in a similar to the moderately-requested Impa. She also has interesting abilities that definitely supply moveset potential.

As for Falco being picked over Peppy and Slippy, I'd say it's most based on the grounds of him being a clone, as well as his popularity. Falco was one of Melee's last-minute clones, and out of himself, Peppy, and Slippy, had the closest body to Fox's. Peppy and Slippy's bodies would be too different to make a clone out of. Plus, Falco actually had popularity back then.

 

[TumblrFamous]

There's already a Zelda character with a trident I'd like to see before Mipha.

 

[Chandeelure]

This reminds me about how people thought Ghirahim was a shoo-in for Smash 4.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The Zora's have actually been around longer than the gorons tho, they were enemies in the first game as well as many others

Yes, but they where generic enemies back then, and they nearly don't appear as much as Gorons do. But I do see your point.

Impa is my prefered choice for a Zelda newcomer by the way.

 

[SquashiniKun]

There's already a Zelda character with a trident I'd like to see before Mipha.

Is it TIngle?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Yes, but they where generic enemies back then, and they nearly don't appear as much as Gorons do. But I do see your point.

Impa is my prefered choice for a Zelda newcomer by the way.

Trueee, sorry mipha, I love you but Impa is still the best

 

[Arcadenik]

A selfish part of me doesn't want Revali because I want Decidueye. They are both skilled archers who happen to be birds. That and because I want Impa to be the Zelda newcomer.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Trueee, sorry mipha, I love you but Impa is still the best

This post deserve a whole internet <3

Which version though? I personally would love Skyward Sword Impa, but fear she might just become a Sheik semi-clone. It's actually feasable if Skyward Sword HD is gonna be revealed at E3. Though, we didn't get Midna either from getting Twilight Princess HD, which is a more popular game and has designs from the Zelda cast for two games in a row now...

My biggest hope is actually Hyrule Warriors' Impa therefore. Been playing the game A LOT since a week, and it's addictive and easily raised Impa about 40 levels roughly. I'd love her to enter with the Naginata playstyle, but would accept the Giant Blade as well.

*sigh* If she only was included in BotW as a Sheikah Champion.... Things would be much easier. I think that Urbosa took her spot as the Princess' guardian from her as well without proper reason. And it's just weird how a long lasting character like Impa got such a minor role, while being one of the VERY FEW reocurring characters that returns mostly all the time.

 

[SirCamp]

Is it TIngle?

You joke but I really do want Tingle unironically. Bring on the weird!

 

[Cosmic77]

The problem that almost every Zelda character has for Smash Switch is poor timing. Most of the characters were in a better position to get chosen in previous games than they are now, so to see Sakurai randomly revisit Majora's Mask or Skyward Sword for the next newcomer would be a little strange.

That's part of the reason why I have my doubts with a majority of the Zelda cast. Most of the characters are relying on Hyrule Warriors for their relevancy, so if Sakurai couldn't add these guys when they were relevant in the main games, would he be swayed by a spin-off of all things?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

This post deserve a whole internet <3

Which version though? I personally would love Skyward Sword Impa, but fear she might just become a Sheik semi-clone. It's actually feasable if Skyward Sword HD is gonna be revealed at E3. Though, we didn't get Midna either from getting Twilight Princess HD, which is a more popular game and has designs from the Zelda cast for two games in a row now...

My biggest hope is actually Hyrule Warriors' Impa therefore. Been playing the game A LOT since a week, and it's addictive and easily raised Impa about 40 levels roughly. I'd love her to enter with the Naginata playstyle, but would accept the Giant Blade as well.

*sigh* If she only was included in BotW as a Sheikah Champion.... Things would be much easier. I think that Urbosa took her spot as the Princess' guardian from her as well without proper reason. And it's just weird how a long lasting character like Impa got such a minor role, while being one of the VERY FEW reocurring characters that returns mostly all the time.

I could see them still redesigning Impa based on the breath of the wild aesthetic, and have her abilities be influenced by the sheikah monks and sheikah weapons as well. That seems like the best possible scenario imo

 

[?????????????]

That's part of the reason why I have my doubts with most a majority of the Zelda cast. Most of the characters are relying on Hyrule Warriors for their relevancy, so if Sakurai couldn't add these guys when they were relevant in the main games, would he be swayed by a spin-off of all things?

To be fair, that spin-off has already been on the Wii U, 3DS, AND Switch, so it has a lot of "relevancy" all on it's own.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The problem that almost every Zelda character has for Smash Switch is poor timing. Most of the characters were in a better position to get chosen in previous games than they are now, so to see Sakurai randomly revisit Majora's Mask or Skyward Sword for the next newcomer would be a little strange.

That's part of the reason why I have my doubts with most a majority of the Zelda cast. Most of the characters are relying on Hyrule Warriors for their relevancy, so if Sakurai couldn't add these guys when they were relevant in the main games, would he be swayed by a spin-off of all things?

Because the spin-off does really well, and BotW also did great compared to previous Zelda games?

I just wanna hope. PLUS.. Mario didn't exactly need a newcomer either, much less two. And yet the franchise got it.

Zelda literally has the exact same roster for 3 games in a row right now.

Also, the design of say, Impa and Ghirahim really clashed with the Twilight Princess designs of . So that might also have something to do with it.

Impa might've been considered as a last minute clone, but her body type doesn't really match Sheik's. She's much taller, lankier and thinner for example. Would require more work probably than Lucina, Dr.Mario and Dark Pit.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Majora's Mask got a remake in 2015 and Twilight Princess got one in 2016. Given the development of Smash Switch started in 2016, this is something to keep in mind.

 

[?????????????]

Regardless of Impa's role in BotW, she still HAS a role. My point being...Impa continues to prove she is one of the main recurring elements of the Zelda series.

Between all her appearances, she's had more than enough to work with to make a good, unique moveset. She doesn't have to stick to just ONE iteration of Impa for that; as it is, Zelda is utilizing the Phantom, a Toon Zelda ability (at best).

I've really come around and come to believe that Impa is the definitive next Zelda pick.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I had a dream that a Lego Avatar was confirmed for Smash...and the Lego could do everything Lego characters can do I’m their own games (it was beautiful)

Also, Impa or Sidon for Smash as playable Zelda characters

Majora's Mask got a remake in 2015 and Twilight Princess got one in 2016. Given the development of Smash Switch started in 2016, this is something to keep in mind.

Skull Kid and Midna are the only possibly things to come out of those games as playable characters, or they stay as assist trophies

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I had one of those weird Smash dreams where they revealed all four Champions and they were hype as ****

If I had to guess, I'd say Mipha. I'd prefer Urbosa or Revali, but they all have interesting stuff to work with.

I would honestly love this. Zelda needs more love and these characters would represent a lot of the variety in the series. I know there would be a lot of salt though, even from Zelda fans (maybe especially from Zelda fans). But I just love unique fighters and they could easily make them all unique...also I love Urbosa lol.

I believe the reason Falco was picked was not just because he'd be the most fitting Fox clone, but he was also the highest scoring Star Fox character in the Melee poll.

Do you know where I can find this poll??? I think it might be the same one I've seen forever ago, that had Gooey relatively high. I'm just curious and think it would be fun to look at.

 

[Diddy Kong]

To be fair, that spin-off has already been on the Wii U, 3DS, AND Switch, so it has a lot of "relevancy" all on it's own.

And also this.

The game has been on both Nintendo systems of the last generation of Smash, and Switch has Hyrule Warriors as well and is getting a new Smash Bros.

Then there's the fact it's very easy to take inspiration from the game because it's a fighting game at heart, so it's very easy to draw a full moveset from characters there.

Besides, outside of Link, Zelda, Sheik and Ganondorf... Impa is the only character spotting a brand new design. So that's also huge. And she's playing a huge part in the story / Legend Mode of the game, and has two respective playstyles, which is quite a lot.

Then there's the whole theme of Breath of the WIld being all about the Sheikah and all, which makes creating a sort of composite Impa just fitted for Smash Bros. all the more likely, and easier. She could use moves like Stasis as it's Sheikah Magic or maybe Cryonis or whatever else they feel is fitting.

Impa had quite some support from Smash 4 that lasted, and became even larger due to Hyrule Warriors. So I really hope to see her in Smash, because the Zelda roster really needs a newcomer. And at this given rate, Impa is becoming far more of a staple to the franchise than even Ganondorf, who we haven't seen in a while. She's a choice that really makes sense, especially compared to the Champions, who are 95% guranteed to have a one-off appearance with BotW.

 

[?????????????]

I really want them to change Ganondorf.

I don't care if the way he's been fighting is "a staple of Smash Bros." I just want a Zelda villain that actually fights like a Zelda villain.

 

[NobleClamtasm]

The problem with Zelda newcomers is that due to the nature of the series, the core characters of Link, Zelda and Ganondorf will always appear, and will always stand out more than the supporting characters like Impa and the four Champions. This differs from a series like Fire Emblem, whose main character role constantly changes with each new game. Thus for Fire Emblem, it's a lot easier to decide on a newcomer.

Had Zant or Ghirahim received more significant roles as the main villains, we probably would've seen one of them playable. But as it stands now, the main three Triforce holders of Link, Zelda and Ganondorf far surpasses anyone else, to the point where the other characters seem a lot less significant.

 

[Zeox]

I really want them to change Ganondorf.

I don't care if the way he's been fighting is "a staple of Smash Bros." I just want a Zelda villain that actually fights like a Zelda villain.

They could give him a new moveset and if someone misses his old moveset, they can add samurai goroh or another f-zero character and have him the moveset.

 

[Cosmic77]

To be fair, that spin-off has already been on the Wii U, 3DS, AND Switch, so it has a lot of "relevancy" all on it's own.

True. However, if Sakurai neglected to add a character from Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword, why would he feel obligated to add a character from Hyrule Warriors? I'm not saying the game wasn't successful, but it's small potatoes compared to everything else. It just can't compete with the main series games.

Regardless of Impa's role in BotW, she still HAS a role. My point being...Impa continues to prove she is one of the main recurring elements of the Zelda series.

Between all her appearances, she's had more than enough to work with to make a good, unique moveset. She doesn't have to stick to just ONE iteration of Impa for that; as it is, Zelda is utilizing the Phantom, a Toon Zelda ability (at best).

I've really come around and come to believe that Impa is the definitive next Zelda pick.

Don't overestimate Impa just because she's recurring. Tingle is undeniably more iconic and recognizable than Impa, and he's still stuck as an Assist Trophy. Impa might "make sense" as the next Zelda rep, but that's not how Sakurai chooses newcomers. He goes off the character's moveset potential and relevancy, and seeing how this is Impa's fourth opportunity to be considered for Smash, I'm starting to think Sakurai just doesn't see Impa the way we do.

I'll have to disagree with you on the subject, but it's fine. Zelda discussion is always divisive.

 

[Munomario777]

I reckon you could definitely give Ganon some new Zelda moves while still keeping most of his old moveset intact. One idea I'm pretty fond of is giving him a hover on his Up B, and then during that hover, he gains a new set of specials. So Neutral B while hovering is the orb, Down B while hovering is the ground pound, Up B while hovering could be the dark portal teleport, stuff like that. When he's not hovering, he still has Warlock Punch, Flame Choke, and Warlock Kick.

 

[Nekoo]

I know we shouldn't talk about the leaks.
But courtesy from 4chan's Anon who did a compilation of all of the "leaks" around and that weren't debunked/piggybacking each others-

Interesting. Didn't known about a THIRD version of the RiddlerIMGUR leak saying that Dr.Mario/Lucina/Dark Pit would be cut-
Also don't mind the Relax Alax thingy- it was made before he admitted messing around

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Do you know where I can find this poll??? I think it might be the same one I've seen forever ago, that had Gooey relatively high. I'm just curious and think it would be fun to look at.

Here you go.

 

[SirCamp]

The problem with Zelda newcomers is that due to the nature of the series, the core characters of Link, Zelda and Ganondorf will always appear, and will always stand out more than the supporting characters like Impa and the four Champions. This differs from a series like Fire Emblem, whose main character role constantly changes with each new game. Thus for Fire Emblem, it's a lot easier to decide on a newcomer.

Had Zant or Ghirahim received more significant roles as the main villains, we probably would've seen one of them playable. But as it stands now, the main three Triforce holders of Link, Zelda and Ganondorf far surpasses anyone else, to the point where the other characters seem a lot less significant.

And this is why I feel like Tingle and Impa are the only real options. Both are significantly less important than the main 3, but being they are the next most visible/recognizable characters in the series, they make the most sense to me.

 

[StrangeMann]

More bad news for the Crash/Spyro/Toad leak this morning: It has been Double-Deconfirmed by Wal-marts leak of Sonic Team Racing https://kotaku.com/walmart-leak-reveals-team-sonic-racing-1826416362. The leaker misidentifies sonic characters as running rather than being in cars. I definitely feel like this leak is outright dead in addition to the Pokemon information dropped yesterday. The 4chan link: https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/414524048
Lazzyman: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/189706-nintendo-switch/76571076
There's probably some other fake e3 leaks dropped dead by this news too.