Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Vintage Creep]

Just admit you wouldn't like their addition because you're not a fan of Skyrim, Assassin's Creed or horror games. Nothing wrong with that. Don't try to justify your tastes with random rules and statements you came up with, sometimes even backed by ignorance on the subject. I don't like Animal Crossing at all, the style is boring and the gameplay even more, and I love what Sakurai did with Villager. Open your mind.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Weak argument. Saying Ezio doesn't have personality because he has a hood is like saying Miis don't have personality because they're completely customization characters.

Weak counterargument.

Miis don't have a personality because they're supposed to be avatars of players. Ezio isn't.

In short, you're basically treating apples as if they were oranges.

So Miis can have a place in Smash Bros. even though they have no personality, while Ezio can't?
You're jumping everywhere aren't you? lol

That was a great comeback, however.

Also, stop double posting. The edit button exists.

 

[Vintage Creep]

The comparison was flawed for purpose, because he's saying that Ezio has no personality, which first, it's not true, and second, that has never stopped anything from getting into Smash Bros.

Never thought I would become an advocate for Assassin's Creed since I think it's one of the most boring franchises to come out the last generation. But I'm interested in their take on the subject to appear in Smash Bros

 

[PsychoJosh]

Also, you're saying that Bayonetta works because her sexualized characterization was downplayed, and I agree with it. Why can't the same thing happen with horror characters too? Leon Kennedy could easily become the new Snake, charming and cool-looking, but kind of goofy and ridiculous because of his moves (just imagine him doing a suplex to Mario)

When I said horror characters I meant stuff like the yurei girls from Fatal Frame or Nemesis from RE. I don't think Smash "desperately needs" a horror character, since the only draw of horror games is their spooky antagonists, and the protagonists are people like Leon Kennedy who don't have any abilities other than using guns. I mean, fine, you might get a kick out of them, but I don't feel that they're "desperately needed" like you said they are.

So Miis can have a place in Smash Bros. even though they have no personality, while Ezio can't?
You're jumping everywhere aren't you? lol

Well, I never defended Miis, and I don't even like them, so I don't know why you're arguing against something I never said to begin with. They're in Smash as it is, yes, that doesn't mean I wanted them in. But the whole point of them is to be template characters that you can create however you want, they're not supposed to be characters with personalities in their own right.

"I'm not going to actually explain my point to you because I don't have one"

No, I have a point, the difference is that you're not capable of seeing it. So there's no point in explaining it to you.

 

[Schnee117]

No, I have a point, the difference is that you're not capable of seeing it. So there's no point in explaining it to you.

That's a terrible stance to take in an argument. If you don't explain your point to people "who don't see the point" then how are they going to see it?

 

[Vintage Creep]

Leon Kennedy only uses guns: first, it's not true at all, and even if he was, nothing stopped Sakurai to come up with new ideas. Also, there are different kind of guns, which act different, and that would reflect in gameplay. There are tons of ways to make that character interesting in a fighting game, look what Capcom did with Redfield. Seriously, the only thing stopping you is imagination. I also disagree on the fact that horror games rely on their antagonists. Resident Evil 1 & 2 didn't have a clear antagonist before the end of the game. It's the atmosphere that draws in. And that can be easily replicated even in Smash Bros. Of course it wouldn't become full-on horror, but a spooky Spence mansion as a stage could be interesting, or a burning Raccoon City.

Back in the day, I created a moveset for a Survivor from ZombiU. I'll get you back on that

 

[Cutie Gwen]

When I said horror characters I meant stuff like the yurei girls from Fatal Frame or Nemesis from RE. I don't think Smash "desperately needs" a horror character, since the only draw of horror games is their spooky antagonists, and the protagonists are people like Leon Kennedy who don't have any abilities other than using guns. I mean, fine, you might get a kick out of them, but I don't feel that they're "desperately needed" like you said they are.




Well, I never defended Miis, and I don't even like them, so I don't know why you're arguing against something I never said to begin with. They're in Smash as it is, yes, that doesn't mean I wanted them in. But the whole point of them is to be template characters that you can create however you want, they're not supposed to be characters with personalities in their own right.



No, I have a point, the difference is that you're not capable of seeing it. So there's no point in explaining it to you.

Nemesis got in a T rated game just fine, just like Snake did with Brawl. Oops. And Leon S. Kennedy is more of a melee guy who suplexes everyone in the Resi franchise. Even I know this!
So Miis are template characters like the Dragonborn, which is why the argument doesn't work for the Dragonborn
MBias ALSO had a point. However, his was objective, yours was subjective, therefore a bad point
I suggest you stop digging yourself into a deeper hole

 

[PsychoJosh]

That's a terrible stance to take in an argument. If you don't explain your point to people "who don't see the point" then how are they going to see it?

If you can't really see how Skyrim and Zelda are different you're not going to understand the point no matter how much I explain it. The differences are staggering and obvious, for you to say that they're just not there at all means you can't really be reasoned with.

 

[Vintage Creep]

If you can't really see how Skyrim and Zelda are different you're not going to understand the point no matter how much I explain it. The differences are staggering and obvious, for you to say that they're just not there at all means you can't really be reasoned with.

Difference is what makes Smash Bros. interesting in the first place, what are you talking about? Would you say that the Metroid franchise and the Pokémon franchise are similar for example? What's the problem in their style being different if making those styles clash together is the major draw for Super Smash Bros. in the first place?
Anyway, take a look at this: https://smashboards.com/threads/for-the-lulz-zombiu-survivor.335250/

 

[PsychoJosh]

Leon Kennedy only uses guns: first, it's not true at all, and even if he was, nothing stopped Sakurai to come up with new ideas. Also, there are different kind of guns, which act different, and that would reflect in gameplay. There are tons of ways to make that character interesting in a fighting game, look what Capcom did with Redfield. Seriously, the only thing stopping you is imagination. I also disagree on the fact that horror games rely on their antagonists. Resident Evil 1 & 2 didn't have a clear antagonist before the end of the game. It's the atmosphere that draws in. And that can be easily replicated even in Smash Bros. Of course it wouldn't become full-on horror, but a spooky Spence mansion as a stage could be interesting, or a burning Raccoon City.

Okay...? I'm not really arguing that Sakurai "can't come up with new ideas for them", this is something you pulled entirely from nowhere. I'm just stating my opinion that I don't see why they're necessary in Smash like you say they are.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If you can't really see how Skyrim and Zelda are different you're not going to understand the point no matter how much I explain it. The differences are staggering and obvious, for you to say that they're just not there at all means you can't really be reasoned with.

MBias wasn't saying they're the same. But that they both have style, which is a fact

 

[Vintage Creep]

Okay...? I'm not really arguing that Sakurai "can't come up with new ideas for them", this is something you pulled entirely from nowhere. I'm just stating my opinion that I don't see why they're necessary in Smash like you say they are.

You started this argument saying that they "have no place in Smash Bros.". Like their addition would be detrimental for the fraqnchise. Saying "I'm not interested in those" is a completely different thing.
Again, you just don't like these suggestions, which is totally fine, but there's nothing coming in the way of the game outside of licensing issues.
It doesn't help that you talk like you bring the absolute truth in your hands and that everyone who has a different opinion just "doesn't get it".

 

[Schnee117]

If you can't really see how Skyrim and Zelda are different you're not going to understand the point no matter how much I explain it.

That's not what I said at all. I only said they aren't leagues different. If you're only going to resort to putting words in my mouth and not actually explaining this "point" you have then I have little choice but to assume you don't have a point until you actually explain it.

Because as far as I'm concerned:
- Both have generic protagonists that the player puts their personality on though Link has gotten better at actually being a character.
- Both are in fantasy settings with magic and Dragons and other magical creatures and cults
- Most of the Zelda titles are open world much like Skyrim but generally on a smaller scale (BotW aside), BotW actually took inspiration from Skyrim
- Both have the protagonist utilising a wide variety of weapons, tools and magic to get around the world.

There's plenty of differences (Skyrim offers tonnes of dialogue options, let's you decide your allegiances and plenty of other things) but they also have plenty of similarities as I've mentioned.

So do explain how they're "Leagues different" instead of dancing around actually explaining your PoV.

you can't really be reasoned with.

Pot meet Kettle.

 

[PsychoJosh]

You started this argument saying that they "have no place in Smash Bros.". Like their addition would be detrimental for the fraqnchise. Saying "I'm not interested in those" is a completely different thing.

I didn't "start" anything, all I did was post an opinion. So you're just getting uptight because of my choice of words? Well, sorry if I upset you, but I meant what I said.

MBias wasn't saying they're the same. But that they both have style, which is a fact

"Having a style" and "being stylized" are two completely different things.

 

[Vintage Creep]

I didn't "start" anything, all I did was post an opinion. So you're just getting uptight because of my choice of words? Well, sorry if I upset you, but I meant what I said.

.

Having a discussion is not a bad thing it's the whole point of this board. It's like you have it, and for now, it looks like if someone doesn't agree with you, he's not worthy of an explanation. Fun.
Anyway, this is how things are going in my opinion. Sakurai started mainly with japanese ips, but I'm expecting him going west, starting with rayman

 

[Radical Bones]

Having a discussion is not a bad thing it's the whole point of this board. It's like you have it, and for now, it looks like if someone doesn't agree with you, he's not worthy of an explanation. Fun.
Anyway, this is how things are going in my opinion. Sakurai started mainly with japanese ips, but I'm expecting him going west, starting with rayman

I still think it's weird there are Rayman trophies in Smash 4. Should we be worried we'll get Rabbids instead?

Squeenix should have given Smash Lara Croft.

Also, is Nathan Drake a big enough name yet?

 

[PsychoJosh]

That's not what I said at all. I only said they aren't leagues different. If you're only going to resort to putting words in my mouth and not actually explaining this "point" you have then I have little choice but to assume you don't have a point until you actually explain it.

Excuse me. I said. "Skyrim isn't stylized and cute like Legend of Zelda is. There's leagues of difference between them." To which you said, "There really isn't." So this can only lead to the conclusion that you aren't capable of discerning the extremely obvious differences between Skyrim and a Zelda game, which means you can't be reasoned with. How else am I supposed to respond to you denying the absolute and undeniable truth that they are different? Is Skyrim really known for its giant casts of extremely expressive and emotive characters, each with really meticulous and quirky personalities that they obviously spent a really long time designing? Is Elder Scrolls as a whole a series known for drastically changing the laws and lore of its world and the things that occur in it with each game, such as submerging Hyrule beneath the Great Sea or putting the characters in a place like Skyloft? You listed some completely superficial similarities they have but I'm afraid they end there.

 

[Curious Villager]

I still think it's weird there are Rayman trophies in Smash 4. Should we be worried we'll get Rabbids instead?

I mean, we also have Commander Video, Fatal Frame and that one weird looking trophy in the 3DS version. It's most probably just other third party studio's asking Sakurai if they can have their characters in as trophies, nothing much else.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

All I got to say on this endless argument: The ONLY reason a character wouldn't belong in Smash is if they have no connections to Nintendo, like say, Master Chief doesn't belong anywhere but an X-Box game but Snake is fine because the Gamecube port of MGS, as is Leon cause of RE4, etc. Compare Ike to Kirby and any excuse of ''Doesn't fit! Art's too different!'' goes away..

Skyrim is coming to Switch: Dovahkiin is fine. Not sure about Ezio, though if he doesn't get in it has NOTHING to do with ''he's too realstic OMFG!!'' or whatever.. And certainly not personality or being too mature etc..

 

[Opossum]

All I got to say on this endless argument: The ONLY reason a character wouldn't belong in Smash is if they have no connections to Nintendo, like say, Master Chief doesn't belong anywhere but an X-Box game but Snake is fine because the Gamecube port of MGS, as is Leon cause of RE4, etc. Compare Ike to Kirby and any excuse of ''Doesn't fit! Art's too different!'' goes away..

Skyrim is coming to Switch: Dovahkiin is fine. Not sure about Ezio, though if he doesn't get in it has NOTHING to do with ''he's too realstic OMFG!!'' or whatever.. And certainly not personality or being too mature etc..

IIRC Ezio's appearance in that one obscure DS Assassin's Creed game is his only Nintendo appearance, if it helps.

 

[Vintage Creep]

All I got to say on this endless argument: The ONLY reason a character wouldn't belong in Smash is if they have no connections to Nintendo, like say, Master Chief doesn't belong anywhere but an X-Box game but Snake is fine because the Gamecube port of MGS, as is Leon cause of RE4, etc. Compare Ike to Kirby and any excuse of ''Doesn't fit! Art's too different!'' goes away..

Skyrim is coming to Switch: Dovahkiin is fine. Not sure about Ezio, though if he doesn't get in it has NOTHING to do with ''he's too realstic OMFG!!'' or whatever.. And certainly not personality or being too mature etc..

I find it too extreme even as is, I would go out and say that every videogame character would be great in Smash. Smash is a celebration of videogames, mostly Nintendo sure, but now it has expanded. I would draw the line at characters like Goku and Naruto, not because they "wouldn't work", they could obviously, but simply because the idea at the core of Smash Bros. would be torn apart in that case. Master Chief for example, if it was possible licensing him to Smash, I'd be down for that. He's an iconic figure as much as many characters in Smash right now if not more to some.

And anyway, c'mon Cloud. Cloud broke everything already. And it's awesome, it opened up to much more possibilities.

 

[Schnee117]

So this can only lead to the conclusion that you aren't capable of discerning the extremely obvious differences between Skyrim and a Zelda game, which means you can't be reasoned with.

You done trying to insult me and dancing around the issue?

How else am I supposed to respond to you denying the absolute and undeniable truth that they are different?

Maybe by not being a jerk about it.
I also never said they weren't different. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Is Skyrim really known for its giant casts of extremely expressive and emotive characters, each with really meticulous and quirky personalities that they obviously spent a really long time designing? Is Elder Scrolls as a whole a series known for drastically changing the laws and lore of its world and the things that occur in it with each game, such as submerging Hyrule beneath the Great Sea or putting the characters in a place like Skyloft? You listed some completely superficial similarities they have but I'm afraid they end there.

There we go.
I'd say Skyrim and Elder Scrolls as a whole has similarities to these to a certain degree.
Changing settings? Yes but not to the drastic points that Zelda does with Hyrule alone.
A huge cast of characters with their own little quirks, stories and care put into them? Absolutely but due to the games having differing natures the cast too differs to suit the games' individual styles and needs

Master Chief doesn't belong anywhere but an X-Box game .

There was going to be a Halo DS title but that got cancelled.

 

[Deleted member]

While it would be a strange fit, I'm guessing some synergy would be considered to help push Bethesda's involvement in the series by having a Skyrim rep in Smash Switch, given the port. And, you could also argue the same with Ubisoft & that Mario/Rabbids crossover and utilizing Rayman, or Level 5 with Jibanyan.

But, beyond that, you'll be getting into very strange territory. And then it's Cloud all over again.

 

[UserKev]

While it would be a strange fit, I'm guessing some synergy would be considered to help push Bethesda's involvement in the series by having a Skyrim rep in Smash Switch, given the port. And, you could also argue the same with Ubisoft & that Mario/Rabbids crossover and utilizing Rayman, or Level 5 with Jibanyan.

But, beyond that, you'll be getting into very strange territory. And then it's Cloud all over again.

I agree with this. I generally don't want them in because I want Smash to keep that pureness.

This is coming from a guy who got his kicks out of Skyrim.

 

[DarkShadow20]

For anyone who was interested in how the fake leak was made.

 

[Curious Villager]

For anyone who was interested in how the fake leak was made.

I think the thing that surprises me the most is that this guy does 3D models too. I've seen his channel a few times before but I never knew that he also does things like that. I should probably subscribe to him.

Perhaps I should try and make some custom Smash stages too..... Or at least upgrade the ones that already exist.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

For anyone who was interested in how the fake leak was made.

HOLY ****!

JOSH MAKE BELIEVE'D US!

 

[Vintage Creep]

Nice leak but Josh remains a total idiot

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Nice leak but Josh remains a total idiot

Wouldn't that mean that anyone who believed in that leak is a bigger idiot than he is?

 

[Schnee117]

Wouldn't that mean that anyone who believed in that leak is a bigger idiot than he is?

Josh Thomas is an idiot (understatement) for completely different reasons that are irrelevant to this thread.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Josh Thomas is an idiot (understatement) for completely different reasons that are irrelevant to this thread.

Fair enough.

 

[Megadoomer]

As far as horror characters go, Nintendo does own Eternal Darkness, so at the very least, that could stand a chance at getting into Smash in some form.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Bayonetta is also an insanely sexualized character and has no eartly business in a game meant for the whole family like Smash.

To add to the oddness of Bayonetta's inclusion, Smash 3DS & Wii U are both E10+ rated titles, while Brawl is a T rated title. At least Bayonetta is a DLC character, so it's not like you're required to use her.

 

[Jdaster64]

For anyone who was interested in how the fake leak was made.

Well, that would explain GX "confirming them fake". Impressive work (besides the UI), but it's kind of obnoxious that this is the go-to way of showing how closely one can match the Smash style anymore.

 

[Curious Villager]

Well, that would explain GX "confirming them fake". Impressive work (besides the UI), but it's kind of obnoxious that this is the go-to way of showing how closely one can match the Smash style anymore.

Smash Wii U's style is fairly simplistic for the most part if you know how to use the lightning effects and normal's they go with etc.

 

[Kirbeh]

Well this thread sure went places in a pretty short span of time...double helping of Josh it seems.

PsychoJosh vs The Super Smash Bros. for Switch Speculation Discussion Thread

I get where you're trying to come from, but you still need to learn how to discuss things better. I'll just be blunt and say it like it is. You were being a jerk and the way you carry yourself still makes you sound like you think you're above others. Try not to belittle others when making your points. Saying things like Mendicant Bias being incapable of understanding your point is pretty insulting, especially when you missed some of their points as well. I get that you're arguing/responding to multiple people at once, and it's likely frustrating to be singled out in such a manner, but being rude isn't going to help.

As for the actual characters being discussed, I don't actively support either Dovahkin or Ezio (I think I'm in the latter's support thread now that I think about it though) and I don't think either are likely, but I disagree with the notion that they "have no place in Smash Bros." Most characters can be altered/toned down as needed if Sakurai really wanted to include them, and numerous examples of this exist in other titles including horror game characters seeing as they came up as well.

Non-Goofy* Mature Series Characters Toned Down for Crossovers

-Ezio in Soul Calibur V
-Scorpion and Sub Zero in Injustice and Injustice 2 respectively.
-Jill, Chris, Wesker and Nemesis in the Marvel vs Capcom series.
-Jill, Chris, Leon and countless others in both Project X Zone titles, etc, etc.

If you dislike a character or personally feel they don't fit, that's fine, but if that's the case, just say that. I imagine many in this thread feel that way about some character or other, myself included. (I'm in Vintage Creep's camp in being against non-game characters on principle.)

I hope I didn't come off as too harsh, but those are my two cents on the matter.

TheBitBlock Leak

Didn't believe it, but still ended up being taken aback by the fact it was Josh of all people. Given his skill set, I guess I should've expected him to try his hand at something like this sooner or later. Still, props for putting in the effort to make all of that, it still looks really good even if it was debunked pretty quickly. Though it seems a lot of people have beef with him too so let's move along.

New Subject

Given the bigger emphasis on single player content in fighters now, what would you all like to see for a future Smash?

 

[Deleted member]

Does anyone want to have a go at guessing the WTF character in the next version of Smash?

I never understood this logic.

There is no point in speculating a "WTF Character". If you can guess the character, they aren't exactly a character that would make you go "WTF" like Wii Fit Trainer did, now are they?

 

[Schnee117]

Given the bigger emphasis on single player content in fighters now, what would you all like to see for a future Smash?

Bring back Subspace Emissary but with plenty of improvements such as actually basing levels off of places from the franchises that are in Smash Bros. It could easily start as Mario and Luigi traversing through Bowser's Castle to rescue Peach and then some shenanigans happen that has them go into separate worlds after fighting a boss.
It doesn't need to make sense at all, it's a crossover so they can have fun with it.

tl;dr
Subspace Emissary that takes proper advantage of the IPs being used

 

[Megadoomer]

Given the bigger emphasis on single player content in fighters now, what would you all like to see for a future Smash?

As far as single player story modes, I feel like a Melee style Adventure mode would work better than a Subspace Emissary style mode. Don't get me wrong, SSE was fun (with the exception of the Great Maze and getting Meta Ridley's trophy), but it seems like a mode like that would eat up a lot of time and space that could be used to work on the roster, stages, etc.

Maybe have the second to last stage be dependent on what character you're playing as, kind of like Street Fighter 4's rivalry system (though some characters might have several rivals, also like Street Fighter 4 - for example, Mario might have Bowser or Sonic, with the one that you fight being randomly determined)

I feel like Smash already has a lot of the essentials covered for both single player and multi-player, though one thing I'd like to see is the finales for Smash Run and Smash Tour getting their own modes. Having a mode where you and other players can pick 3-5 characters and work through them (each time you lose a life, your character changes) or having a race to the finish or survival against random enemies from various Nintendo games could be interesting, especially if you didn't have to work through a tedious/luck-based board game to get to it.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

I never understood this logic.

There is no point in speculating a "WTF Character". If you can guess the character, they aren't exactly a character that would make you go "WTF" like Wii Fit Trainer did, now are they?

And then for the two people on the planet that do end up guessing who that "WTF" character is going to be, it's just... Congrats? You threw out a random guess and it happened to be right? I guess someone's luck is more important to acknowledge than the basis of which one can reason out why 90% of everyone else gets into Smash?

I could say Diskun is going to get into Smash right now, but does that honestly say anything other than that I'm just absurdly lucky if I end up being right? I could claim "I always knew in hindsight and here's why" when it's still an absolute fact that anything I could say would only be my own attempt to grab 15 minutes of fame and act like I had any more of a method than to randomly think of who people don't want in Smash.

Speculation this way is the difference between amateur and professional poker players. One will bank everything on the unlikely scenario, while the other uses deduction skills to make the call with the highest perceived probability. Only the professional is going to end up consistently right in their guesses. The ones who just make blind picks with little prior thought put into them aren't exactly making any contributions to the field.

It's for that reason that I say discussions on who our "WTF" choice is going to be are completely pointless. With just about any other character not meant to fill out a quota, we're figuring out why they would make sense in Smash Bros. and how they are likely for it. "I'm calling this character because nobody else will" for the sake of random guessing adds nothing to the discussion, imo.