Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Naiko3232]

The problem with the WiiU was that it didnt had any personality, later on Nintendo made some gems for it but it was just an experimental console.

 

[Serebii]

Peoples are discrediting you because you don't believe the banner leak is true.

Ah

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

It's kinda funny.

If you add Incineroar to the banner that'd be 8 characters.

Now, if you take the box theory, but spin it around so that the original 8 are on the back of the box, you could fit this roster in there.

Box theory confirmed. Just not the one we thought.

I'm not being remotely serious with this

Maybe people will start believing Box Theory now that it includes the characters they want.

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

welp i hope in the morning more stuff will unravel.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

What does it accomplish? It throws people off the trail of other characters and makes people automatically skeptical of leaks not involving Incineroar. Look at how big of a ****show Incineroar not being in the Grinch leak has caused. That's exactly what Nintendo wants.

No, Incineroar is not leaker bait. The point of leaker bait is to catch leakers. It's in the name, bait. Why would Nintendo go and tell every insider's source that Incineroar is in the game when he isn't? The idea of it being a misinformation campaign is plausible, but what does that accomplish? Nintendo isn't able to pinpoint who's saying what if they tell everyone the same misinformation. It'd make more sense if we heard multiple Pokémon, but instead it's just Incineroar. I also doubt Nintendo would start a misinformation campaign right now in an attempt at damage control. They've proven to just ignore actual leaks, so why would they act so differently this time? And before you say "but Smash is special" and "they're handling leaks differently this time," we have no proof of that other than what boils down to PR statements. Even then, aspects of the E3 reveal got leaked even when Sakurai said they didn't, so their "leak protection" isn't as great as they say it is.

The misinformation campaign idea makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[doomedtacox]

Maybe people will start believing Box Theory now that it includes the characters they want.

Maybe people will finally realize it's a useless theory to begin with without knowing what's on the back.

 

[Chiroz]

Wait, why am I being discredited?

Do you know for a fact that there's a pokemon character coming? If you can tell me that? (Sorry I haven't read the last few pages). But I remember you from Brawl and some other Pokemon games, you have a very credible leak history among Pokemon chars and games. (You are the owner of Serebii.net I asume, lol).

 

[N3ON]

Ah

Don't worry now that you've shown up people will disbelieve the Grinch leak for the next 30 mins or so.

 

[Nekoo]

I like how people said that Square-Enix defending Geno by throwing fake name to leakers makes sense because it would be easy to spot fake leaks if it's an "out of nowhere" name think that Incineroar is a leaker bait by himself.

One make sense. The other doesn't.

 

[alemerltoucanet]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

People missed this but it's the most interesting part and Something to note.

The fact that he go out of his way to say "three Characters excluding DLC" makes me think that it's the rumors that Spawn-Wave known.
Three Characters base roster with the DLC being revealed at the VGA. He also says that DLC plan for all of 2019 is a given from his source.

This is beyond interesting.
If I were to guess those three echo fighters, I'm guessing Ken (duh), Shadow, and Dixie Kong. If somehow not, then MAYBE(?), Rosa (Bayo), Louie (Olimar), Medusa (Palutena), or Mathew (Isaac. Yeah, Isaac. I'm just gonna base this off of saying he's in lol). Those are my ideas though.

Anyways, I'll catch y'all on the flipside (aka, in the morning/sometime tomorrow).
Gn y'all.

 

[doomedtacox]

The misinformation campaign idea makes no sense whatsoever.

Not really. That's the whole point, to create misinformation and confusion so nobody truly knows who's in the game, but they think they do. Half the reason people are so confused right now and lots of insiders are denying the grinch leak is because Incineroar is nowhere to be found.

 

[vaanrose]

No, Incineroar is not leaker bait. The point of leaker bait is to catch leakers. It's in the name, bait. Why would Nintendo go and tell every insider's source that Incineroar is in the game when he isn't? The idea of it being a misinformation campaign is plausible, but what does that accomplish? Nintendo isn't able to pinpoint who's saying what if they tell everyone the same misinformation.

The fundamental issue here is the assumption that there are multiple sources running around simply because there are multiple people claiming to have heard he's in. Person A tells persons B and C, person B tells person C, now person C thinks they've heard it from two sources, when in reality they've only heard it from one.

The other side of it is that it's not as though Nintendo would have a unique false character for each and every person on the team. They're far more likely to have one character that is propagated among groups of people, to narrow down the search. In this case, two unique sources can be told the same false character.

Now, I've waffled back and forth on whether I think "leaker bait" is even something they'd bother with (my current belief is that they wouldn't), but if they would, I think a Pokemon makes a lot of sense for that character, because there's a certain expectation that a Pokemon will be in, but it could be one of dozens of options. They're all believable and wouldn't give a leaker much pause. In the event Incineroar is bait, there would likely be another group with Decidueye, another group with Lycanroc, etc.

 

[papagenos]

So papagenos : Just so I have it clear. Someone who you know is the real self and a trustworthy person told you that they know for a fact Banjo is in and that they also hear these other exact 6 + Incineroar?

my source came to me with this info and i trust their credibility because of who they are.

cant give out info too much but ill say: they approached me, id never spoken to them before. they have credentials/its who they are that makes them trustable. basically if i told you, i assume most would probably be on board with trusting them too.

i have some "power" here as they trusted me not to just "out" who they are, which of course i could have always done (i absolutely wont but just pointing that out here, they put themselves on the line telling me info).

Also I was approached a while back by another source about the "spirits act like stickers" thing and that source told me something that isnt public knowledge (not anything to do with smash the game in particular) this new source also mentioned this same thing to me and they had no idea i already knew about it so i REALLY doubt this is a lie considering that consistency. I'm sorry thats really vague but i cant say more than that but it is another piece here that makes me believe/trust them (though i would based solely on who they are anyway). They are also absolutely not the same person (some one pretending to be etc..) as my first source, thats an impossibility, just figured id get that out of the way.

i have seen no proof from them of anything in the game and its my source who has a microsoft source so there is a chain here.

my source and the microsoft source believe the banner leak but are confused why incineroar isnt there... so SOMETHING might be going on, but because they had already heard these banner characters AND the microsoft source was sure of banjo before all this, they are believing this is real.

again I'd say its at the very least not a typical "fake leak", something is indeed going on here.

 

[vaanrose]

apparently the item is from Tret. It is a tree turning humans into plants.

Smash -
View attachment 172237

Golden Sun -
View attachment 172238

That second image is a photoshopped comparison of the smash image on top of this image:

 

[staindgrey]

The problem with the WiiU was that it didnt had any personality, later on Nintendo made some gems for it but it was just an experimental console.

I'd argue it has far more personality than a PS4. Still sold a ****ton less.

Wii U: Gamepad. Dual-screen play. Unique baby blue box art. Backwards compatability. Miis. Miiverse. Nintendo's weird charm.
PS4: Black box. Bluray packaging. Basically a PC without Windows on it. Same controller it's had since the 90s but now it has a trackpad.

In terms of personality, I definitely think the Wii U won. But the PS4 shows that a personality doesn't win you a beauty contest.

 

[Misery Brick]

Well, I mean that's the most common argument as to why people shouldn't want a Fire Emblem character. It and of itself is mostly an "ad hominem" deal where it's not really wrong to want it or even expect it. But, thing is, Pokémon just got 3 characters back. Pichu is at least only arguably worthwhile, but good luck trying to disprove the worth of Squirtle and Ivysaur. That is more than most series got, even with newcomers, and what some up-and-coming series have.

It's probably not truly greedy as in "you don't need this, shut up" as much as it is "we're kinda just used to it, so the idea of the status quo being shaken up doesn't appear to me" tier. After all, wanting in a THIRD SEGA series? Who am I to judge on that level?

This right here is what kills me about FE hate.
A lot of people will completely get pissed if one more character is added to the roster, but are perfectly fine with four Pokémon added to one game.
Like I love Pokémon, but come on, that’s a huge double standard.

But on another note, I wouldn’t be surprised if Incineroar was cut later down the line or probably converted into the DLC plan. After all, didn’t one of the ESRB leakers say they decided one of the Mother kids would’ve been DLC, while one would be on base? And Ness was base roster, then Lucas was DLC.
I could see the same situation with Incineroar, as he’d sell the most units out of the six unique characters total. (Excluding maybe B&K, but that could be a contractual thing.)
again this is assuming the leak is real, I feel like I have to put this down every time.

 

[FixedFun]

my source came to me with this info and i trust their credibility because of who they are.

cant give out info too much but ill say: they approached me, id never spoken to them before. they have credentials/its who they are that makes them trustable. basically if i told you, i assume most would probably be on board with trusting them too.

i have some "power" here as they trusted me not to just "out" who they are, which of course i could have always done (i absolutely wont but just pointing that out here, they put themselves on the line telling me info).

Also I was approached a while back by another source about the "spirits act like stickers" thing and that source told me something that isnt public knowledge (not anything to do with smash the game in particular) this new source also mentioned this same thing to me and they had no idea i already knew about it so i REALLY doubt this is a lie considering that consistency. I'm sorry thats really vague but i cant say more than that but it is another piece here that makes me believe/trust them (though i would based solely on who they are anyway). They are also absolutely not the same person (some one pretending to be etc..) as my first source, thats an impossibility, just figured id get that out of the way.

i have seen no proof from them of anything in the game and its my source who has a microsoft source so there is a chain here.

my source and the microsoft source believe the banner leak but are confused why incineroar isnt there... so SOMETHING might be going on, but because they had already heard these banner characters AND the microsoft source was sure of banjo before all this, they are believing this is real.

again I'd say its at the very least not a typical "fake leak", something is indeed going on here.

Well, Hideo Kojima insisted Sakurai to put Snake in Smash Bros. Melee, but he couldn't because of time constraints. If the leak is true, I do believe Incineroar is DLC, a later addition.

 

[staindgrey]

So papagenos : Just so I have it clear. Someone who you know is the real self and a trustworthy person told you that they know for a fact Banjo is in and that they also hear these other exact 6 + Incineroar?

Maybe Incineroar is so forgettable they initially printed the poster without him in it. This guy got one of the misprints.

 

[Guynamednelson]

After all, didn’t one of the ESRB leakers say they decided one of the Mother kids would’ve been DLC, while one would be on base?

That was just a lucky guess, his DLC list was fake.

 

[N3ON]

Now, I've waffled back and forth on whether I think "leaker bait" is even something they'd bother with (my current belief is that they wouldn't), but if they would, I think a Pokemon makes a lot of sense for that character, because there's a certain expectation that a Pokemon will be in, but it could be one of dozens of options. They're all believable and wouldn't give a leaker much pause. In the event Incineroar is bait, there would likely be another group with Decidueye, another group with Lycanroc, etc.

Well that is what seemed to give Vergeben pause before he would name Incineroar specifically.

But at this point everyone seems pretty unified behind that dumb ol cat.

 

[Misery Brick]

That was just a lucky guess, his DLC list was fake.

I’m not talking about the mother-****ing leaker, I’m talking about the guy who was crossing out some of the characters on the original pics.
Unless that was the same dude, idk, it’s been a long time since I’ve examined that.

 

[ChronoKatie]

my source came to me with this info and i trust their credibility because of who they are.

cant give out info too much but ill say: they approached me, id never spoken to them before. they have credentials/its who they are that makes them trustable. basically if i told you, i assume most would probably be on board with trusting them too.

i have some "power" here as they trusted me not to just "out" who they are, which of course i could have always done (i absolutely wont but just pointing that out here, they put themselves on the line telling me info).

Also I was approached a while back by another source about the "spirits act like stickers" thing and that source told me something that isnt public knowledge (not anything to do with smash the game in particular) this new source also mentioned this same thing to me and they had no idea i already knew about it so i REALLY doubt this is a lie considering that consistency. I'm sorry thats really vague but i cant say more than that but it is another piece here that makes me believe/trust them (though i would based solely on who they are anyway). They are also absolutely not the same person (some one pretending to be etc..) as my first source, thats an impossibility, just figured id get that out of the way.

i have seen no proof from them of anything in the game and its my source who has a microsoft source so there is a chain here.

my source and the microsoft source believe the banner leak but are confused why incineroar isnt there... so SOMETHING might be going on, but because they had already heard these banner characters AND the microsoft source was sure of banjo before all this, they are believing this is real.

again I'd say its at the very least not a typical "fake leak", something is indeed going on here.

You're awesome. ^_^ Thanks for the clarification, and the new info.

 

[Ring-a-Sheep]

This right here is what kills me about FE hate.
A lot of people will completely get pissed if one more character is added to the roster, but are perfectly fine with four Pokémon added to one game.
Like I love Pokémon, but come on, that’s a huge double standard.

again this is assuming the leak is real, I feel like I have to put this down every time.

Its not a double standard at all, almost no pokemon is the same or similar to each other (besides pichu or lucario/mewtwo with a projectile) robin is the only REALLY unique FE character (and corrin), i don't hate FE but trying to put it on the same level of pokemon ain't where it is chief.

 

[staindgrey]

The fundamental issue here is the assumption that there are multiple sources running around simply because there are multiple people claiming to have heard he's in. Person A tells persons B and C, person B tells person C, now person C thinks they've heard it from two sources, when in reality they've only heard it from one.

Typically, you know who your sources are and why they're a reliable source. What their credentials are and how they get that privileged information. I think most of these people in the know know how to separate their sources and make sure they're not just getting fed a game of telephone.

It's still possible, of course, but really these leakers are just journalists. The good ones hold onto their information until they can corroborate it with multiple credible sources.

Its not a double standard at all, almost no pokemon is the same or similar to each other (besides pichu or lucario/mewtwo with a projectile) robin is the only REALLY unique FE character, i don't hate FE but trying to put it on the same level of pokemon ain't where it is chief.

Not disagreeing with the point that you're making, but.

=/= =/= =/= &friends.

EDIT: Whoops, double post. The thread slowed down.

 

[Rummy]

Despite all that has occurred, Despite all that can happen and Despite how much i want his to be real.

We already have over 70+ Characters, No Cuts! and we got Snake and Wolf back. Take that in. If this leak is real. **** yeah, If not. Who cares. We can wish another day and Dream A New Dream For Tomorrow..

But.. I'm very much 70% thinking this is real, in general i see this leak as a booster shot to the whole community. Sure it brought a lot of flames and unneeded bashing and mashing but when we come towards that direct, don't push yourselves over eachother but support eachother. Ultimate was made for the fans, and it can still be done for the fans. Don't forget that please.

 

[marth_t90]

mornin lads <3

 

[osby]

Its not a double standard at all, almost no pokemon is the same or similar to each other (besides pichu or lucario/mewtwo with a projectile) robin is the only REALLY unique FE character (and corrin), i don't hate FE but trying to put it on the same level of pokemon ain't where it is chief.

I can't see what this has to do with potential newcomers. By that logic, we shouldn't get a unique Zelda newcomer because only half of them are unique.

 

[vaanrose]

Typically, you know who your sources are and why they're a reliable source. What their credentials are and how they get that privileged information. I think most of these people in the know know how to separate their sources and make sure they're not just getting fed a game of telephone.

It's still possible, of course, but really these leakers are just journalists. The good ones hold onto their information until they can corroborate it with multiple credible sources.

I think I have a pretty good idea of how leaks work, lol.

 

[OurBoyRoy]

One of the most plausible theories I've heard about Incineroar is that he was planned but they decided to cut him after realizing gen 7 is getting old and instead they're going to do a gen 8 DLC pokemon. It's basically pure speculation but it makes sense as to why a lot of people might have just had out of date information.

 

[Royalty1702]

So, what're the best arguments for/against the Grinch leak so far?

 

[staindgrey]

I think I have a pretty good idea of how leaks work, lol.

lol. Well you didn't in that post I quoted.

 

[Michele]

So, what're the best arguments for/against the Grinch leak?

Banner leak*

And for the agruements...

Those in favor is the background never seen before, characters render never seen before.

Those against it is the background that seems to be missing some things, but it was quickly countered by the fact it was changed after E3. Another thing concerning is that peoples are attempting to find renders to no luck.

 

[OurBoyRoy]

I think I have a pretty good idea of how leaks work, lol.

Vaanrose, overall are you on team real or team fake?

 

[Ring-a-Sheep]

I can't see what this has to do with potential newcomers. By that logic, we shouldn't get a unique Zelda newcomer because only half of them are unique.

What? When did i say this has to do with potential newcomers? My point was that you can't compare FE reps and Pokemon reps.

 

[staindgrey]

Banner leak*

And for the agruements...

Those in favor is the background never seen before, characters render never seen before.

Those against it is the background that seems to be missing some things, but it was quickly countered by the fact it was changed after E3. Another thing concerning is that peoples are attempting to find renders to no luck.

There are so many more arguments on both sides than that.

But it's 1:30am and I really need to go to bed.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

lol. Well you didn't in that post I quoted.

You are just adorable.

How much to adopt you?!

 

[Misery Brick]

Its not a double standard at all, almost no pokemon is the same or similar to each other (besides pichu or lucario/mewtwo with a projectile) robin is the only REALLY unique FE character (and corrin), i don't hate FE but trying to put it on the same level of pokemon ain't where it is chief.

You’re going to tell me that Ike and Marth play exactly the same? Or that Robin and Corrin are even remotely similar? The only “unique” character that plays similarly to another is Roy, and even then his kit is different for a good measure.
Also, it pretty much is a double standard because you’re getting mad over the idea that FE is getting a potential new character, while completely embracing a truckload of new Pokémon.
That’s extreme bias if I’ve ever heard of it.

 

[osby]

What? When did i say this has to do with potential newcomers? My point was that you can't compare FE reps and Pokemon reps.

My bad, I thought the original discussion was about character additions.

 

[BlondeLombax]

So, assuming the leak is real (I'll remain half-in-half), what do you guys think will be the order of reveals? Here's what I'm thinking...

Geno: Announced prior to the potential Smash Direct

Isaac: Starts off the Smash Direct

Shadow & Ken: Echo Fighter showcase

Chorus Kids & Mach Rider: revealed during the direct

Banjo-Kazooie: Revealed at the very end of the direct

 

[staindgrey]

You are just adorable.

How much to adopt you?!

Babe, you couldn't afford me.

I really need to sleep, now I'm getting goofy.