Smash thought

[blonde]

When you play smash, is your mind working its *** off? It seems like to play smash at a high level it takes lots of focus. There are so many little things you can do in smash that are not mentioned but you just figuire out the more you play

 

[ciaza]

Sometimes I play my best when I'm not thinking at all, like having my mind drift off. Then halfway through the game I snap back into focus and realise I was playing Smash the whole time lol.

Otherwise to play my best I need utmost focus to think what my opponent is doing and how I should react.

Edit: Muhahahaha 666 posts.

 

[asianaussie]

sometimes im chill and lose a lot

sometimes im focused and i actively stop things like dodge rolls and stupid fastfall d-airs

sometimes im just in the zone and all my techchases and stuff happen unconsciously, though opponents need to book this particular mindset a few days in advance

usually the first

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Sometimes I play my best when I'm not thinking at all, like having my mind drift off. Then halfway through the game I snap back into focus and realise I was playing Smash the whole time lol.

I do this all the time when I play local smashers at the smash nights... just think about how well/bad I did in my hockey game a few hours earlier, where I want to eat for supper, that cute girl I walked past earlier that day, then all of a sudden, notice I'm in the middle of a **** tent combo with Fox, and see I'm winning 5 stocks to 1

 

[King Funk]

Smash 64 doesn't take much thought, most of it is quite automatic. But usually I'm trying to think of something silly I can do.

 

[Peek~]

Yes

When you play the right opponent this game gets pretty exhausting

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

Playing low tiers is cool like that.

 

[TANK64]

I have 2 opinions on this (and they kind of contradict lol, but not really)

When you play the right opponent this game gets pretty exhausting

I agree; when it is a tight battle every movement is well thought out, and it can be mentally exhausting.

Smash 64 doesn't take much thought, most of it is quite automatic.

I think lots of things can be "automatic" in terms of good habits, and not just rolling and how to approach. Even good spacing can be a habit. Not recovering predictably can become a habit in itself. However, I believe this automatic playing can only give you the upper hand on your opponent if you were already better than them to begin with. I'm sure Boom could destroy me on autopilot, but I imagine when he plays Isai he's very aware. This conscious thought can be what determines a match against someone at, or above, your skill level. Sometimes if you don't focus, this can happen:

sometimes im chill and lose a lot

 

[SilentSlayers]

I completely agree with what TANK64 said. Yeah, a good player's autopilot owns, but I think when you play really competitively, things are stepped up a lot.

 

[The Star King]

Smash 64 doesn't take much thought, most of it is quite automatic. But usually I'm trying to think of something silly I can do.

No. Not at a high level of play.

I feel like most of the community plays "automatically", when they shouldn't. I can beat most of the community really easily just because it feels like everybody plays mindlessly to me. I doubt I'm that much smarter than everybody.

Like, for example, I was playing the_greginator (hopefully he won't mind me using him as an example), me as Yoshi vs. Pikachu. I really shouldn't win if you look at physical skill alone, but he had a lot of habits, so I just punished him for those things repeatedly, and he NEVER changed them up. I can adapt to most players because nobody tries to learn from their mistakes. Gawd. Like Mango, the best Melee player always says, "I keep doing the same **** and you keep falling for it."

I think trying to notice your opponent's habits is something that needs to be TRAINED. You'll have to consciously do it at first, until it becomes second-nature. Consciously FORCE yourself to see WHY you got punished for doing something, or WHY they managed to escape your pressure, or what they tend to do in a certain situation. Few people bother training themselves mentally in this game, because everybody focuses on obvious things like combos and tech skill and nothing else. I think people tend to overrate these because it's much easier to see the importance of these things in videos than the mental aspect of the game.

I know this post is probably going to piss some people off since I sound like I think I'm so superior to everybody, but this is seriously how I feel. If you think you can play at your best while daydreaming, and if you never get tired mentally from playing this game, you're doing it wrong.

 

[ballin4life]

Mango said that?

Pretty sure it's Wes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrxVXHXHVcc

 

[The Star King]

Oh, I heard Mango says that but I guess he was quoting that video.

Love that video btw, so many classic quotes from it LOL

 

[DMoogle]

No. Not at a high level of play.

I feel like most of the community plays "automatically", when they shouldn't. I can beat most of the community really easily just because it feels like everybody plays mindlessly to me. I doubt I'm that much smarter than everybody.

Like, for example, I was playing the_greginator (hopefully he won't mind me using him as an example), me as Yoshi vs. Pikachu. I really shouldn't win if you look at physical skill alone, but he had a lot of habits, so I just punished him for those things repeatedly, and he NEVER changed them up. I can adapt to most players because nobody tries to learn from their mistakes. Gawd. Like Mango, the best Melee player always says, "I keep doing the same **** and you keep falling for it."

I think trying to notice your opponent's habits is something that needs to be TRAINED. You'll have to consciously do it at first, until it becomes second-nature. Consciously FORCE yourself to see WHY you got punished for doing something, or WHY they managed to escape your pressure, or what they tend to do in a certain situation. Few people bother training themselves mentally in this game, because everybody focuses on obvious things like combos and tech skill and nothing else. I think people tend to overrate these because it's much easier to see the importance of these things in videos than the mental aspect of the game.

I know this post is probably going to piss some people off since I sound like I think I'm so superior to everybody, but this is seriously how I feel. If you think you can play at your best while daydreaming, and if you never get tired mentally from playing this game, you're doing it wrong.

You have potential to be a winning poker player.

The only thing I would add is that being predictable is not necessarily a bad thing. If what you're doing is unexploitable, then there's nothing wrong with being predictable (e.g. at high percents always following up Samus' d-air with her b-air to kill). However, there are very few situations in SSB where an unexploitable strategy can be determined.

So yeah, I totally agree.

 

[killa k]

Some characters take quite a lot of focus like Link and Samus, but when I use Fox and Falcon, my mind tends to wander and it's like I'm playing on auto-pilot. I didn't notice this til like a week ago and I never realized how hard it is to stay focused with some characters lol.

 

[The Star King]

The only thing I would add is that being predictable is not necessarily a bad thing. If what you're doing is unexploitable, then there's nothing wrong with being predictable (e.g. at high percents always following up Samus' d-air with her b-air to kill). However, there are very few situations in SSB where an unexploitable strategy can be determined.

I agree with your example, of course. Sticking to the same basic combos is fine, becaues your opponent can't punish you for it. I'm mostly talking things like approach.

Honestly, I don't think I would be anywhere near as good as I am now without ever training myself mentally.

...I can't ever see myself getting into poker, lol

 

[Battlecow]

You sure you aren't from Europe, Starry?

 

[The Star King]

You sure you aren't from Europe, Starry?

Huh? What are you saying?

 

[Trav]

man i think about what ima do tomorrow and what im gonna eat when i play so i dont focus to hard

 

[blonde]

I find that if i want to win a match with someone at same skill level or slighly higher i must put all my focus into the game, the more thought i give, the more i win. It seems like the game is endless because it always possible to improve mindgames, spacing, di and such. Its like rapid chess

 

[Sangoku]

Battlecow was just continuing the discussion about "Europeans are snob"... Not sure you can generalize that much though.

On topic, I'm always focused on every game, but sometimes lack of techskill make me lose. For example, I see a Falcon running and as Fox I try to sh backward and laser but I often do it too high (even though it touches CF's head -_-').

So to follow Battlecow's logic, I have the feeling that Americans have really good techskill (when looking at training mode combos for example) but some don't seem to have enough ingame experience, while it's the opposite with me (and other Europeans I guess).

And I think it was pretty obvious that changing and adapting his playstyle is crucial. If you always jump from ledges, you'll eventually get killed easily...

 

[ballin4life]

Training mode combos aren't necessarily indicative of tech skill ... you know they cut out all the failed attempts right?

 

[Sangoku]

Yeah but sometimes people are like "woah it took me 2 hours to get that combo, so long!" but even if I tried the whole night I wouldn't be able to perform the first two hits of the combo.

Another example is when people say "the last hit was so difficult to get", that implies the rest of the combo is fairly easy or at least doable.

Also if I can only shine to dair once out of ten trials, I won't try to make a combo with it inside as even if I have only 3-4 more "dangerous" moves with let's say 0.5 accuracy, the probability to have the whole thing right is very low. Hope you see what I mean.

It's indeed not 100% representative of techskill, but I still think it can give a general idea.

 

[The Star King]

Only if you know how long they took.

Even NessMain43260 can pull off incredible technical combos if given enough time.

 

[Gammelnorsk]

im usually unable to think when i am playign smash due to various reasons

 

[Sangoku]

The Star King: what I meant is that if a combo takes me entire days of trials, I won't try to do it. So I doubt people want to waste days just to pull off a combo. I might be wrong though.

And there's no need to think a lot while playing. Just simple things like if you get caught into a combo because you approached from above, then try something else next time. Not so many neurons involved lol. I don't think it's usefull to study big theories about spacing or the game in general, they might just come naturally while playing.

Finally, of course most moves ARE automatic, that is you shouldn't need to think which muscle you have to contract and which one you have to relax while walking. Practicing an activity makes it automatic (the cortex doesn't need to work anymore), therefore playing smash is mainly automatic. The thinking part is "only" involved in what moves you should use and since the options are rather limited you shouldn't be tired by playing. At least that's how I feel.

 

[The Star King]

Finally, of course most moves ARE automatic, that is you shouldn't need to think which muscle you have to contract and which one you have to relax while walking. Practicing an activity makes it automatic (the cortex doesn't need to work anymore), therefore playing smash is mainly automatic. The thinking part is "only" involved in what moves you should use and since the options are rather limited you shouldn't be tired by playing. At least that's how I feel.

You're right about not having to think about things like which muscle you have to contract to walk. In terms of Smash, you shouldn't have to think about the technical aspects of the game. A tennis player doesn't think about the technique of his strokes, he thinks about how to beat his opponent. So we seem to agree there.

So if we agree, why do you think it's mostly automatic, while I think your mind should be focused on the game to play your best, you ask? I think it's because you're hugely underestimating how much effort it takes to observe your opponent and pick out his exploitable habits. I can't really say anything more.

Trust me. Train yourself mentally in this game. I'm speaking from experience - it'll help loads.

 

[Sangoku]

Yeah obviously I wasn't saying I was telling the truth. I'm not good enough at this game yet to understand all the mindgames part.

It's just that with my experience so far, I have more been limited by techskill than by mental tricks.

But I'll try to observe and think more in the future to see if I can get the difference =). Thanks for having pointed that out by the way.

 

[Pink_Kirby]

Thinking is harder for some people than it is for others, and some people also think more than others. Because of this it is probably impossible to correlate perceived mental exertion with smash prowess. Good smashers might not think they have to think at all b/c doing the right/smart thing at the right time comes effortlessly due to practice/experience or they might have to think very hard to play at the level they do.

As for me, I don't think while playing b/c all I have to play against are CPU's. It basically goes like this: walk up, watch them roll behind me, grab, throw, gimp, :trollface:, repeat.

 

[Battlecow]

What people don't seem to understand- probably because we don't have the most athletic segment of the population on these boards- is that smash is like any other sport. You have to practice and try your hardest and be focused in order to "be the best you can." This isn't surprising in basketball or baseball, so why is it surprising in video games?

 

[ballin4life]

Hey don't insult my athleticism battlecow.

If you haven't noticed, I am balling for life. and playing tennis too

I think everyone knows that practice is important. After all "practice makes perfect", right?

The thing is though that you need to practice the right things, in the right way. So it's really "perfect practice makes perfect"

 

[ciaza]

From what I've picked up over time is that most people who play Smash are involved in at least one physical sporting activity. (I played Basketball, Soccer and Little Athletics myself. Now that school is out I'm just chilling though).

What do you guys mean exactly when you say practice though? Are we talking about spacing ability, tech-skill ability, or just all Smash in general?

 

[Battlecow]

From what I've picked up over time is that most people who play Smash are involved in at least one physical sporting activity. (I played Basketball, Soccer and Little Athletics myself. Now that school is out I'm just chilling though).

What do you guys mean exactly when you say practice though? Are we talking about spacing ability, tech-skill ability, or just all Smash in general?

Do you just practice ball skills in basketball? Do you just practice snagging grounders in baseball?

If this were an über-competitive sport, with a large following and a rich tradition, there would be coaches and drills and books on strategy and all that good stuff. We don't have that, so we have to make up our own practice regimes (or just **** around, which is what most of us do). Basically, you have to decide what's most important to you and practice that, but every important aspect of the game should be emphasized to some degree.

Hey don't insult my athleticism battlecow.

If you haven't noticed, I am balling for life. and playing tennis too

I think everyone knows that practice is important. After all "practice makes perfect", right?

The thing is though that you need to practice the right things, in the right way. So it's really "perfect practice makes perfect"

You're the exception, he who balleth!

and pretty much yeah to the rest of your post.

 

[Dr_Strangelove]

correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't "playing without thinking" the technical definition of sandbagging?

 

[Pink_Kirby]

I thought sandbagging was deliberately playing worse. Playing mindlessly is one way to accomplish that, but I'm sure there are others.

 

[asianaussie]

sandbagging can take active, dumb thought, like only using falcon d-air to take a stock

 

[The Star King]

I play tennis a ton, and I find that winning mindsets are extremely similar to Smash. Especially since tennis is 1v1 (that's why I like tennis, WHY IS EVERYTHING POPULAR A TEAM SPORT).

 

[Dr_Strangelove]

I play tennis a ton, and I find that winning mindsets are extremely similar to Smash. Especially since tennis is 1v1 (that's why I like tennis, WHY IS EVERYTHING POPULAR A TEAM SPORT).

I play a lot of tennis too, and actually most people play doubles. But then that could be because of the fact that there's very little court space, so people play more doubles to be less selfish or maybe because everyone who plays is incredibly old. It is quite similar though.

WE DIGRESS. The point I am trying to make is, you don't necessarily have to be deliberately doing stupid things to be sandbagging. If you're not thinking about the game when you play you're either sandbagging or terrible. Probably not the latter.

 

[The Star King]

Most people play Doubles? Most tennis players I know prefer Singles (and most tennis pros).

 

[asianaussie]

Maybe if you have courts to spare, but like strangelove said, most people play doubles. My old tennis squads always, always had more doubles courts than singles running because lots of people want to play tennis.

I prefer doubles - I don't have to dash as much, and my net game is much better than my groundstroking.

 

[ciaza]

I prefer 1v1 sports because if you lose you have no one to blame but yourself, and if you win you can only take credit. However with team sports you can do heaps more fun stuff and it's just more fun in general to play with your friends.