Official Smash for Switch 2 - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Watuna4343]

Looks like they updated the renders of the whole Mario cast with the group shot, notably they've even added Toadette to the group shot


View attachment 402754

Okay, but I've been looking at this picture for the new details and I just want to share some things that kind of jumped out to me while seeing it.
Number 1: Probably the biggest one imo, no Pauline! Given how people were very adamant that Pauline is being pushed as the 'new Rosalina' 'new member of the main cast' her absence here is very notable. And that already reinforces 2 things for me - 1) that it's not her on the Bananza leak but rather a look alike and 2) (and more relevant to the discussion) that her getting into Smash Bros is a long shot at best given that the main argument in her favor (that again, she is seeing an increase similar to Rosalina) is far more limited. I still don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that Pauline gets in if there are 2 Mario newcomers but I would definitely not bet on her debuting in the next Smash.
Number 2: The Waluigi haters who swear by the fact that Nintendo hates him and that he's an irrelevant side character that no one cares about is still on the main cast's photo and NOT Bowser Jr. lmao - so much for some random spin-off character huh?
Number 3: Same case for Rosalina! A big reason why people cut her instead of Jr. is because he 'appears in more games' and that he is 'more importan' but again, here she is and Junior isn't! And not only that but Rosalina has gotten a pretty good upgrade too - her hair and her face are upgraded, she got her wand and she's floating now - that's a lot of changes for a character that many deem to have 'fallen out compared to the past' and definitely suggests that there's care to her design, like just that confirmation that Nintendo very much views Rosalina as a main character (even if she appears in less games) combined with her popularity and her unique moveset, I just can't see a world where Bowser Jr. stays on the roster over her if it comes down to that
Number 4: Circling it back to Number 1 - instead of Pauline, it's Toadette who actually got in the photo! Good for her and definitely great for her prominence going forward. In Smash related news, I've always held the opinion that after Pauline and Toad, Toadette was the next likeliest candidate for a potential 2nd Mario newcomer for Smash 6 (outside of Waluigi) and this picture confirms my thoughts. (Outside chance of Toadette getting in without Toad anyone? Lmao imagine if that happened)

Anyway, this is probably some yapping and some random thoughts, but I thought I'd share

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Probably the biggest one imo, no Pauline! Given how people were very adamant that Pauline is being pushed as the 'new Rosalina' 'new member of the main cast' her absence here is very notable. And that already reinforces 2 things for me - 1) that it's not her on the Bananza leak but rather a look alike and 2) (and more relevant to the discussion) that her getting into Smash Bros is a long shot at best given that the main argument in her favor (that again, she is seeing an increase similar to Rosalina) is far more limited. I still don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that Pauline gets in if there are 2 Mario newcomers but I would definitely not bet on her debuting in the next Smash.

Rosalina wasn’t really part of the main cast until the Wii U/3DS era for example so Pauline not being there doesn’t mean anything. An example is how Mario Kart Wii was the only spinoff Rosalina was in until Mario Kart 7.

Also Bowser Jr and Diddy Kong are in their own sections in the Mario website.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Doomerism? I’m just saying I think it would be more interesting to change things up once in a while. How is that doomerism? Modern starter designs haven’t really appealed much to me lately.

It's doomerism to
A. Always immediately assume a new Starter is inevitable
And
B. Treat it as inherently contemptible.

We literally only had two generations of Smash where we got a new generation Starter, and yet it's treated like it's set in stone within the speculation scene for whatever ****ing reason and it's honestly starting to piss me off.

You know what else was a common thread at one point? We had two generations of Smash where we had a new addition that starred in a movie.
We had Mewtwo and Lucario as movie stars. And this lead to Zoroark being the defacto inevitable addition to Smash because she too was a movie star. And then people desperately scrambled for a replacement for Kalos when it seemed as though Unova was too late. With people settling for the likes of Sylveon over a Pikachu Short or "Awakened Mewtwo" over the Genesect movie if not just outright dismissing a "new" Pokémon in general for Mewtwo's comeback because, again, "movie star".

And then Greninja happened and broke that assumed "default".

It honestly gets so goddamn tiring to see on both ends of the spectrum, whether one likes the Starters or not.

 

[Gengar84]

It's doomerism to
A. Always immediately assume a new Starter is inevitable
And
B. Treat it as inherently contemptible.

We literally only had two generations of Smash where we got a new generation Starter, and yet it's treated like it's set in stone within the speculation scene for whatever ****ing reason and it's honestly starting to piss me off.

You know what else was a common thread at one point? We had two generations of Smash where we had a new addition that starred in a movie.
We had Mewtwo and Lucario as movie stars. And this lead to Zoroark being the defacto inevitable addition to Smash because she too was a movie star. And then people desperately scrambled for a replacement for Kalos when it seemed as though Unova was too late. With people settling for the likes of Sylveon over a Pikachu Short or "Awakened Mewtwo" over the Genesect movie if not just outright dismissing a "new" Pokémon in general for Mewtwo's comeback because, again, "movie star".

And then Greninja happened and broke that assumed "default".

It honestly gets so goddamn tiring to see on both ends of the spectrum, whether one likes the Starters or not.

I didn’t say it was inevitable though. I just said Jesse and James would be a nice change of pace. Before you get pissed off, maybe try actually reading my posts? That might help.

 

[Louie G.]

I think using this new visual to make kneejerk judgements about Pauline is a bit misguided. At the very least sure, it means that Nintendo isn't rushing to make her a defacto brand ambassador / main crew staple on the level of Rosalina just yet. But that doesn't have a whole lot of bearing on Smash, or very much on other titles either. Like, I don't think this has anything to do with her potential role in Donkey Kong Bananza at least.

I think the prominent showcase of certain characters in promotional material - see: Waluigi - is actually a good thing to note. But the lack thereof isn't inherently a death knell. Assuming most of these 'core' brand characters remain in tact on Smash's roster - - is Nintendo really going to deny Sakurai the right to use Pauline if that's what he feels inspired to do? All the fundamentals are here, pretty much.

After all, Rosalina was added to Sakurai's project plan off effectively a single appearance in Super Mario Galaxy. She wasn't initially added to elevate Mario's branding, she was added because a puppet moveset would be cool. If Sakurai likes Pauline's potential as a singer / performer, has some strong moveset hook in mind etc, all of this speculation about promotional images is moot. Meanwhile, if Nintendo felt so strongly about making this Mario lineup all squeaky clean with their idealistic brand image, they would have twisted Sakurai's arm to get Toad on the roster much sooner.

I still don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that Pauline gets in if there are 2 Mario newcomers but I would definitely not bet on her debuting in the next Smash.

Not saying one will certainly be Pauline, but precedent would have us believe getting two new Mario characters is more likely than not. Even Ultimate made space for both Daisy and Piranha Plant. It just makes sense, the Mario cast make up Nintendo's most recognizable characters and steadily bringing in new faces will appeal to the widest umbrella of fans of all shapes and sizes. So personally I'm operating on the logic that we will just get two Mario characters annyway.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I didn’t say it was inevitable though. I just said Jesse and James would be a nice change of pace. Before you get pissed off, maybe try actually reading my posts? That might help.

Read your own posts before you try to get smart with me.

That’s fair. I’m just getting bored of the newest starter as the default choice pattern

nice break from just getting the newest starter every time.

You are clearly treating the Starters as an inevitable default pattern.

 

[SharkLord]

In most cases, I don’t think the starters are 100% set in stone. We have precedent for Sakurai having to choose a starter solely based on the vibes their concept art gives off, but like Golden mentioned, it’s only happened twice thus far and we also got movie stars in Mewtwo and Lucario. So, not the only option

That being said, Meowscarada’s the main Pokemon of the current main character, and I think that’s a decently significant edge beyond just being the designated Grass starter to fit the supposed pattern. Again, not a hard lock, but I think it’s at least worth considering

Edit: Oh yeah, and we’re well past the concept art phase, so it would be a different circumstance than the ones selected in advance. That’s worth noting too

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

In most cases, I don’t think the starters are 100% set in stone. We have precedent for Sakurai having to choose a starter solely based on the vibes their concept art gives off, but like Golden mentioned, it’s only happened twice thus far and we also got movie stars in Mewtwo and Lucario. So, not the only option

That being said, Meowscarada’s the main Pokemon of the current main character, and I think that’s a decently significant edge beyond just being the designated Grass starter to fit the supposed pattern. Again, not a hard lock, but I think it’s at least worth considering

And even then Meowscarada (along with any other Gen 9 options such as Cerluedge or Tinkaton) has the problem of the next coming Generation with when a hypothetical new Smash would have its project proposal drafted assuming it’s right after Air Riders is finished and/or on market. As popular as Lucario and Greninja may be for example, they likely would not have made the cut by now had the proposals for their Smash debuts not been when they were.

Meowscarada's biggest chance would ironically have been before the anime.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

In most cases, I don’t think the starters are 100% set in stone. We have precedent for Sakurai having to choose a starter solely based on the vibes their concept art gives off, but like Golden mentioned, it’s only happened twice thus far and we also got movie stars in Mewtwo and Lucario. So, not the only option

That being said, Meowscarada’s the main Pokemon of the current main character, and I think that’s a decently significant edge beyond just being the designated Grass starter to fit the supposed pattern. Again, not a hard lock, but I think it’s at least worth considering

I feel like it's going to be a Gen 10 Pokemon unless we end up getting two new Pokemon, but considering I'm pretty sure that'll come out next year for the 30th anniversary and next Smash's project plan may not have even been started yet, assumedly Pokemon would have way more concepts available since my assumption about Gen 10 is it's like a year and a half out.

Starters will obviously be on the table (Incineroar still got picked in a similar circumstance since Ultimate's project plan was finished in December 2015 and Sun and Moon came out November 2016), but there'll be plenty for Sakurai to look through as possibilities, so there's really no telling.

 

[Ivander]

I feel like it's going to be a Gen 10 Pokemon unless we end up getting two new Pokemon

Which, depending on when the next Smash's concept stages were drafted and when the next Smash does get announced and released, is not as impossible as it seems. And it's not impossible for a game to give two unique newcomers to a series.

 

[Gengar84]

Read your own posts before you try to get smart with me.

You are clearly treating the Starters as an inevitable default pattern.

First, it is a pattern in both Pokemon and Fire Emblem. Second, that doesn’t mean patterns can’t be broken. Third, I said that I like Meowscarada several times here and would be fine if they went with that even if it’s not my top choice. Fourth, hyperbole is a thing. Fifth, you’re the one getting upset here just because I have different interests. You get the picture. It looks like you missed it but I did say I’m not inherently opposed to starters, it’s just that most of the modern ones don’t appeal to me. I also find it more exciting when things are less predictable. If I truly thought that a starter was inevitable and that I’d hate whatever they went with, I wouldn’t even bother bringing up alternatives. What would be the point?

 

[Noipoi]

What if we got a new Pokemon from Gen 10 and then Scream Tail as an Echo?

Original, I know. But that’s one way I could see us getting two new Pokemon next time around.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Starters will obviously be on the table (Incineroar still got picked in a similar circumstance since Ultimate's project plan was finished in December 2015 and Sun and Moon came out November 2016), but there'll be plenty for Sakurai to look through as possibilities, so there's really no telling.

Well, the decision to add Incineroar specifically came later to note. A reservation for a new Pokémon was set when the proposal was first drafted.
The funny thing is that this was also the time when GameFreak was dishing out video reveals for new Pokémon left and right, so for a full year people, including Sakurai, could see a number of Pokémon in action.

And we know his proposal was revised on the 1st of November 2016.

And wouldn't you know it, the most recent showcase featured Decidueye and Incineroar, just days before this revision, the two we know he was settling between.

So he had a full year of Gen 7 Pokémon becoming public knowledge to choose from and got immediately hooked on the archer and the wrestler. They were the ones that "danced" in his mind. And this was after even the likes of Tapu Koko, Mimikyu, and Lycanroc were public knowledge as well.

 

[SharkLord]

And even then Meowscarada (along with any other Gen 9 options such as Cerluedge or Tinkaton) has the problem of the next coming Generation with when a hypothetical new Smash would have its project proposal drafted assuming it’s right after Air Riders is finished and/or on market. As popular as Lucario and Greninja may be for example, they likely would not have made the cut by now had the proposals for their Smash debuts not been when they were.

Meowscarada's biggest chance would ironically have been before the anime.

I feel like it's going to be a Gen 10 Pokemon unless we end up getting two new Pokemon, but considering I'm pretty sure that'll come out next year for the 30th anniversary and next Smash's project plan may not have even been started yet, assumedly Pokemon would have way more concepts available since my assumption about Gen 10 is it's like a year and a half out.

Starters will obviously be on the table (Incineroar still got picked in a similar circumstance since Ultimate's project plan was finished in December 2015 and Sun and Moon came out November 2016), but there'll be plenty for Sakurai to look through as possibilities, so there's really no telling.

Yeah, both good points. Starters or no, Pokemon picks tend to be pretty seasonal. But we still don’t know when the next generation will even be announced, so predicting that is a bit murky.

I think a major factor for Meowscarada is if the anime keeps it and Liko around for Gen X or cycles through to a new hero-and-starter duo. If Meowscarada’s anime importance carries on past Gen XI, I think that’s a pretty solid point in its favor

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Which, depending on when the next Smash's concept stages were drafted and when the next Smash does get announced and released, is not as impossible as it seems. And it's not impossible for a game to give two unique newcomers to a series.

This is true, but the only time Pokemon's had two unique newcomers in one game was the original (Pikachu and Jigglypuff) and Brawl (Lucario and PT). Melee had Mewtwo and a late-addition clone in Pichu, and then Greninja and Incineroar were on their own.

Basically, I only expect one based on that, but two isn't IMpossible, I suppose.

Yeah, both good points. Starters or no, Pokemon picks tend to be pretty seasonal. But we still don’t know when the next generation will even be announced, so predicting that is a bit murky.

I mean I don't wanna be pedantic, but I'm pretty sure it's gonna be announced at the 30th anniversary Pokemon Day next February, like how Legends was announced at Pokemon Day last year lol

I also anticipate that they're gonna finally add Red and Blue to NSO that day too, as a sort of "Now you can experience the original game that started this journey" thing, but that's less related to the topic lol

 

[Louie G.]

I'm saying this neutrally, but I'll always find it pretty funny how the rhetoric changed around Pokemon in Smash.

Back in Smash 4, we were looking for the next Mewtwo or Lucario. That's how Zoroark became popular, that's why characters like Victini, Genesect and Zeraora got their time in the sun. Once Greninja hit the scene it became about starters - prior to that, people could not fathom that any single starter would be put on a pedestal over the others. Pokemon Trainer gave us this impression.

So now, it's about starters especially after Greninja and Incineroar hit back to back. Does this 'pattern' get broken next game just like the Mewtwo / Lucario impression of "movie" Pokemon fizzled out? ...I dunno, could go either way really. But I wanted to just acknowledge how we've adopted this new mindset toward a standard, when we used to have another impression of this that got torn to shreds a decade ago.

Hell, same thing with Fire Emblem honestly, but that series has kind of shifted along with it. "Lords" are less prevalent over avatars so the choices in Smash reflected that, with Awakening being the bridge that gave us both Robin and Lucina. Still, Chrom was a no-brainer until he wasn't.

 

[Gengar84]

I'm saying this neutrally, but I'll always find it pretty funny how the rhetoric changed around Pokemon in Smash.

Back in Smash 4, we were looking for the next Mewtwo or Lucario. That's how Zoroark became popular, that's why characters like Victini, Genesect and Zeraora got their time in the sun. Once Greninja hit the scene it became about starters - prior to that, people could not fathom that any single starter would be put on a pedestal over the others. Pokemon Trainer gave us this impression.

So now, it's about starters especially after Greninja and Incineroar hit back to back. Does this 'pattern' get broken next game just like the Mewtwo / Lucario impression of "movie" Pokemon fizzled out? ...I dunno, could go either way really. But I wanted to just acknowledge how we've adopted this new mindset toward a standard, when we used to have another impression of this that got torn to shreds a decade ago.

Yeah that is pretty funny actually. Maybe I chose my words poorly but I never thought that it’s an absolute guarantee that we’ll get a starter every time. When I say a starter is the default choice, it doesn’t mean that it can’t be changed if something else is especially interesting, just that it’s the easy, safe choice. Smash clearly does follow patterns with its character selection but those patterns aren’t set in stone. I think part of it is that I just tend to like other characters more than the starter, lord, or main protagonist. I don’t think it’s dooming to say that I think it would be cool if Smash shook things up once in a while, you know?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I think the starters take priority just because they are the defacto "protagonist" of their game, since they are the first party member you have in the games.

 

[Noipoi]

Well, the decision to add Incineroar specifically came later to note. A reservation for a new Pokémon was set when the proposal was first drafted.
The funny thing is that this was also the time when GameFreak was dishing out video reveals for new Pokémon left and right, so for a full year people, including Sakurai, could see a number of Pokémon in action.

And we know his proposal was revised on the 1st of November 2016.View attachment 402774

And wouldn't you know it, the most recent showcase featured Decidueye and Incineroar, just days before this revision, the two we know he was settling between.

So he had a full year of Gen 7 Pokémon becoming public knowledge to choose from and got immediately hooked on the archer and the wrestler. They were the ones that "danced" in his mind. And this was after even the likes of Tapu Koko, Mimikyu, and Lycanroc were public knowledge as well.

Slightly unrelated, but it’s so crazy that these guys leaked like half a year before the game came out.

I had a feeling they were real immediately because they looked so different from what everyone else was predicting. Everyone figured Rowlet would toss bigger knives, not arrows. No one would’ve dared to turn Litten into a bipedal wrestler. And no one thought Popplio would ditch the clown theme.

 

[Guynamednelson]

So now, it's about starters especially after Greninja and Incineroar hit back to back. Does this 'pattern' get broken next game just like the Mewtwo / Lucario impression of "movie" Pokemon fizzled out? ...I dunno, could go either way really. But I wanted to just acknowledge how we've adopted this new mindset toward a standard, when we used to have another impression of this that got torn to shreds a decade ago.

Well the current state of Pokemon marketing isn't exactly good for getting a non-Starter besides Sakurai looking back at fan favorites from the previous generation. The current hyperfixation on Meowscarada isn't because "we need a grass starter" but because it unfortunately aligns perfectly with TPC's marketing

 

[Gengar84]

I think the starters take priority just because they are the defacto "protagonist" of their game, since they are the first party member you have in the games.

Yeah, that’s what I was trying to say. That’s what I meant by default. Much in the same way that Alear and Noah/Mio are the default next characters for their respective games (unless they get a new entry before Smash selection). That doesn’t mean it can’t change or that those characters are always bad, just that it can become a bit predictable if they stick to that pattern too often. For me, it’s a combination of predictability and my preference for other characters that keeps the safe choices from topping my most wanted lists.

 

[Louie G.]

The current hyperfixation on Meowscarada isn't because "we need a grass starter" but because it unfortunately aligns perfectly with TPC's marketing

I don't think it has much to do with the grass starter thing anymore either, it definitely did originally but now Meowscarada is organically the most popular and highly marketed starter Pokemon from the current generation. It makes sense. That said, Smash doesn't have any qualms about bucking this trend. It seemed apparent during Gen 7 that the Rowlet line was getting the most love, but we got Incineroar by entirely separate means. I think Meowscarada has an independent case off moveset / archetypical potential like Incineroar did, but that's neither here nor there for this point.

Goes without saying, but we're really just gonna have to see how the cards fall with Gen 10 and Smash 6. Does Smash 6 predate Gen 10, or vice versa? Every year we go without hearing about a new Smash game, the less likely it is that we will focus on Gen 9. As far as Pokemon "patterns" go, THIS is the most tried and true (for better or worse). A new Smash will include a Pokemon from the latest generation at that point in time. That's the one thing we can count on.

 

[Guynamednelson]

bipedal

People really have to stop treating this word like it's interchangeable with "anthromorphic". Do you think anyone who hates how anthromorphic later starters get automatically hates any bird Pokemon no matter how realistic it is?

 

[SPEN18]

I said it before, but honestly, Smash aside, I'm exhausted with the entire Grass/Fire/Water starter trio concept. I mean I'd love to see a game where we're simply allowed to catch whatever we want for our first Poke, given that we now have open exploration and mechanics for catching Pokes without fighting them with other Pokes first. But, even failing a change as drastic as that, I'd love to see them do at least something to mix things up, like don't use Grass/Fire/Water for a change, or let us pick from more than three options (or honestly even less than three options, like you could do a Let's Go thing where you have two starters, one for each version of the game).

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

First, it is a pattern in both Pokemon and Fire Emblem.

I'm going to stop right here.

The established pattern for Pokémon is a new Pokémon from the upcoming Generation to when the project proposal is drafted. This started with Lucario in Brawl (Pichu was an afterthought for filler after the project was drafted). This is the pattern that is highly unlikely to change.

Lucario is obviously not a Starter.
Greninja and Incineroar are Starters, but they were not added BECAUSE they were Starters.
We can infer from this pattern that a Starter is possible because it's happened before. But it is not the default because a non-Starter has also happened in Lucario.
If a Starter has a potential fighting style to incorporate to Smash that appeals to Sakurai then yes, that Starter has a reasonable chance. But if there's a non-Starter that has more appeal, they'll likely be on his mind more, hence why I've been mentioning Ceruledge quite a bit when Gen 9 was the main possibility as something that may catch his eye more.


Fire Emblem itself is a strange case, but there's nothing established about it.
It is true that we got Ike and Robin picked at a point that their games were the most recent. But then we got Corrin as an additional fighter as DLC who was simultaneously the most recent (in Japan) and upcoming (internationally; with this being the reason why he was picked irrelevant to it being Fire Emblem). And then Ultimate added Chrom as an Echo just because people voted for him on the Ballot as opposed to filling any quota for a Fire Emblem character. And then Nintendo had Byleth added as DLC because Three Houses would be a game people would be playing during the DLC period, again, Fire Emblem being irrelevant to the reason.
It's reductive to claim there's some sort of established pattern here because everyone's situation is different unlike Pokémon where we KNOW a new Pokémon is reserved for the roster even before the decision for the specific one is made because it accounts for an upcoming Generation.


And that's all I'm going to say on this now.

 

[Noipoi]

People really have to stop treating this word like it's interchangeable with "anthromorphic". Do you think anyone who hates how anthromorphic later starters get automatically hates any bird Pokemon no matter how realistic it is?

Well birds are supposed to be bipedal, so no, I don’t think anyone cares.

But cats and foxes and pigs aren’t, which is why it’s notable when they do stand up

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

And no one thought Popplio would ditch the clown theme.

Now I have flashbacks to this thing.

 

[Guynamednelson]

But cats and foxes and pigs aren’t, which is why it’s notable when they do stand up

Even then I still don't think they're exactly interchangeable. Some bipedal Pokemon are still animalistic enough that they literally just look like a realistic animal standing on two legs, and/or run on all fours on a regular basis (IE: Pikachu, the series' own mascot) without looking weird.

 

[Gengar84]

I'm going to stop right here.

The established pattern for Pokémon is a new Pokémon from the upcoming Generation to when the project proposal is drafted. This started with Lucario in Brawl (Pichu was an afterthought for filler after the project was drafted). This is the pattern that is highly unlikely to change.

Lucario is obviously not a Starter.
Greninja and Incineroar are Starters, but they were not added BECAUSE they were Starters.
We can infer from this pattern that a Starter is possible because it's happened before. But it is not the default because a non-Starter has also happened in Lucario.
If a Starter has a potential fighting style to incorporate to Smash that appeals to Sakurai then yes, that Starter has a reasonable chance. But if there's a non-Starter that has more appeal, they'll likely be on his mind more, hence why I've been mentioning Ceruledge quite a bit when Gen 9 was the main possibility as something that may catch his eye more.


Fire Emblem itself is a strange case, but there's nothing established about it.
It is true that we got Ike and Robin picked at a point that their games were the most recent. But then we got Corrin as an additional fighter as DLC who was simultaneously the most recent (in Japan) and upcoming (internationally; with this being the reason why he was picked irrelevant to it being Fire Emblem). And then Ultimate added Chrom as an Echo just because people voted for him on the Ballot as opposed to filling any quota for a Fire Emblem character. And then Nintendo had Byleth added as DLC because Three Houses would be a game people would be playing during the DLC period, again, Fire Emblem being irrelevant to the reason.
It's reductive to claim there's some sort of established pattern here because everyone's situation is different unlike Pokémon where we KNOW a new Pokémon is reserved for the roster even before the decision for the specific one is made because it accounts for an upcoming Generation.


And that's all I'm going to say on this now.

I’ll drop the argument too because it seems we’re getting nowhere. If you actually read my whole posts, you’d see that we generally agree and I never said anything is set in stone. It’s all a personal preference thing. A lot of modern starters don’t appeal much to me. I find other characters more interesting than lords in general. If that bothers you, then whatever. The last thing I’ll say on the matter is that I’m generally okay with whatever we get but I obviously have my own preferences. If we get a lord or starter, cool. I’m happy for their fans and maybe there’s still a chance I like them.

 

[SharkLord]

I said it before, but honestly, Smash aside, I'm exhausted with the entire Grass/Fire/Water starter trio concept. I mean I'd love to see a game where we're simply allowed to catch whatever we want for our first Poke, given that we now have open exploration and mechanics for catching Pokes without fighting them with other Pokes first. But, even failing a change as drastic as that, I'd love to see them do at least something to mix things up, like don't use Grass/Fire/Water for a change, or let us pick from more than three options (or honestly even less than three options, like you could do a Let's Go thing where you have two starters, one for each version of the game).

I vaguely remember a Fakemon concept I saw as a kid for an Electric/Ground/Flying trio, though Electric not being immune to flying makes that a little uneven. I’ve also read that the only other true type trios are Fire/Rock/Steel, Grass/Poison/Ground, and Fighting/Flying/Rock

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Well birds are supposed to be bipedal, so no, I don’t think anyone cares.

But cats and foxes and pigs aren’t, which is why it’s notable when they do stand up

Tangentially related, but I love my singing sugar skull crocodile and his little fire soul bird. The name I gave him would've worked even if he did stand up (I named mine Vector lol), but I'm honestly kinda happy he didn't lol

 

[Laniv]

Now I have flashbacks to this thing.
View attachment 402775

Look, I love Primarina dearly. Would've picked Popplio if it weren't for the flaming tiger.

But... dang. This thing is hilarious. I wish they went with this design

 

[Noipoi]

Tangentially related, but I love my singing sugar skull crocodile and his little fire soul bird. The name I gave him would've worked even if he did stand up (I named mine Vector lol), but I'm honestly kinda happy he didn't lol

I called mine Kackle, after the ghost crocodile skeleton enemies from Donkey Kong Country 2. Thought it was fitting

 

[SPEN18]

I think the starters take priority just because they are the defacto "protagonist" of their game, since they are the first party member you have in the games.

I mean yeah in terms of "role importance" you can view them sort of like "protagonists," but also obviously not in the same way as a traditional main character. It's weird...fixing a particular starter, for basically one third of players they'll be a main "protagonist"...but for the other two thirds of players they'll either be a relatively minor antagonist or side character (if they're a rival's main) or essentially absent. So there's a great imbalance from player to player what their experience with the character will be.
In terms of getting priority for Smash, I think it's more that being a starter usually comes with appearing in a good deal of promotional and marketing material. Edit: also, probably get designed earlier on in development, and is a safe guess to at least be reasonably popular.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I’ll drop the argument too because it seems we’re getting nowhere. If you actually read my whole posts, you’d see that we generally agree and I never said anything is set in stone.

It's not that I didn't "read your posts" (and accusing me of not doing so makes me want to read them less not more).
It's that you literally said one thing and are now trying to backtrack to say you "meant" something else because you got called out on it.

I'm still going to call out Starter doomerism when I see it because you're not the only one that's ever done it.

 

[Gengar84]

It's not that I didn't "read your posts" (and accusing me of not doing so makes me want to read them less not more).
It's that you literally said one thing and are now trying to backtrack to say you "meant" something else because you got called out on it.

I'm still going to call out Starter doomerism when I see it because you're not the only one that's ever done it.

What did you mean by “I’m going to stop right here” then? I took that to mean you stopped reading the rest of my post after the first sentence. Is that not what you meant? If you meant something else by it and didn’t mean those words literally, aren’t you doing the exact same thing you’re accusing me of? Also, I’ve never backpedaled. I’ve always held the same beliefs and your post didn’t change that. Maybe I worded things poorly but I believe what I believe. On top of that, you selectively quote my words and ignore the broader context of my posts. I’ve said multiple times here that I’m not completely opposed to starters, I’m just a bit bored with them. That didn’t start today just because you “called me out”.

 

[Noipoi]

I said it before, but honestly, Smash aside, I'm exhausted with the entire Grass/Fire/Water starter trio concept. I mean I'd love to see a game where we're simply allowed to catch whatever we want for our first Poke, given that we now have open exploration and mechanics for catching Pokes without fighting them with other Pokes first. But, even failing a change as drastic as that, I'd love to see them do at least something to mix things up, like don't use Grass/Fire/Water for a change, or let us pick from more than three options (or honestly even less than three options, like you could do a Let's Go thing where you have two starters, one for each version of the game).

I think a Fighting/Psychic/Dark trio would be pretty cool, especially if they got quirky with the secondary types as they evolved.

The only snag is that Dark is completely immune to Psychic, instead of just resisting it. Depending on which starter you choose, that may be frustrating for new players.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I have decided going forward the only viable option for a new Pokemon rep is Mudkip, and until the next game is announced I will continue to operate under this assumption.
Join me, friends. It's better this way

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

It's funny, I was trying to think of other video equivalents to the effects/dynamic of choosing starter Pokémon and the most immediate thing I could think of was the selection of Ancients at the beginning of Eternal Darkness.

(And somewhere in an alternate universe we have a wonderful crossover title where Professor Oak offers Ulyaoth, Xel'lotath, or Chattur'gha to help you battle monsters and/or turn you into their malevolent undead lich.)

 

[Guynamednelson]

I have decided going forward the only viable option for a new Pokemon rep is Mudkip, and until the next game is announced I will continue to operate under this assumption.
Join me, friends. It's better this way

I would leik this.

...I mean like.