Official Smash for Switch 2 - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[CosmicEternity44]

I still hope they'd at least consider a second ballot. A LOT has changed since the first ballot, in more ways than one...

You can say that again! Maybe it would be better to do one for before the next game? Or maybe it wouldn’t be better? I am not sure.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Ballots are kinda wonky since there's the expectation of them influencing the immediate future, but the reality of them only being able to influence the years following, leading to stuff like Bayonetta being advertised as a ballot winner despite not being a ballot pick.

Ultimate on the other hand, was full of ballot picks and even the premise might have been ballot influenced, so it's really difficult to tell how worth it the tradeoff is.

 

[Gengar84]

On the subject of ballots, who are everyone’s top three most wanted Smash characters? Even if they’re unlikely, what’s the best argument you can come up with to support each of their inclusion? For me, it’s Magus, Jinx, and the Battletoads.

I already laid out Magus’ case but Jinx has a ton of mainstream attention through Arcane and League. She’s going to be one of the major characters in 2XKO that is rumored to also be coming to Switch 2. League already has spinoffs like Ruined King on Switch. I think she’s likely the single most currently popular video game character for the general public that is currently receiving a mainstream push.

For Battletoads, RARE is the third party developer with the strongest historical Nintendo connection and many of their games are now playable on the Switch online service including Battletoads in Battlemaniacs and Battletoads & Double Dragon. RARE’s games were actually the most promoted and celebrated announcements for Switch Online additions. Battletoads got a reboot in 2020 and Rash appeared in Killer Instinct and is the most competitively viable character in it.

I’m probably just biased but I feel like Jinx actually has a very good chance of making it in Smash. Depending on the Chrono projects, I feel like Magus actually does too. If Smash wants a fun retro surprise character, Rash is a really good choice for that role.

 

[fogbadge]

On the subject of ballots, who are everyone’s top three most wanted Smash characters? Even if they’re unlikely, what’s the best argument you can come up with to support each of their inclusion? For me, it’s Magus, Jinx, and the Battletoads.

I already laid out Magus’ case but Jinx has a ton of mainstream attention through Arcane and League. She’s going to be one of the major characters in 2XKO that is rumored to also be coming to Switch 2. League already has spinoffs like Ruined King on Switch. I think she’s likely the single most currently popular video game character for the general public that is currently receiving a mainstream push.

For Battletoads, RARE is the third party developer with the strongest historical Nintendo connection and many of their games are now playable on the Switch online service. RARE’s games were actually the most promoted and celebrated announcements for Switch Online additions. Battletoads got a reboot in 2020 and Rash appeared in Killer Instinct and is the most competitively viable character in it.

I’m probably just biased but I feel like Jinx actually has a very good chance of making it in Smash. Depending on the Chrono projects, I feel like Magus actually does too. If Smash wants a fun retro surprise character, Rash is a really good choice for that role.

Toad/Toadette, Chibi-Robo, Tails

 

[Ivander]

I still hope they'd at least consider a second ballot. A LOT has changed since the first ballot, in more ways than one...

I think I would like it after Smash 6 is finished. One so that characters not in Smash 6 will get focused on and that characters in Smash 6 will not be. Two so that all the DLC characters are out of the way and we don't get another Bayonetta discourse.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

On the subject of ballots, who are everyone’s top three most wanted Smash characters? Even if they’re unlikely, what’s the best argument you can come up with to support each of their inclusion? For me, it’s Magus, Jinx, and the Battletoads.

In no particular order, outside of the very first one...

Nightmare from Soulcalibur is absolutely my most wanted. It was the second fighting franchise I got into (first being Smash) so I got a lot of fondness for it. And Nightmare is such a cool-looking character too. He would also have a decent bit of uniqueness, being our first true superheavy swordie (Ganondorf doesn't count) but still have a surprising amount of mobility with Grim Stride all while having these massively powerful disjointed strikes with Soul Edge... and probably a billion moves for the same reason as Kazuya. It'd be really cool.

Either Scorpion or Sub-Zero from Mortal Kombat. Another fighting series I got into early on (having parents that didn't really care about age rating has its perks) sporting some absolutely iconic characters, but the ninjas are probably one of the most well-known fighting game archetypes. It'd be cool to see them.

Alear due to personal attachments that I wanna keep private to not bring the mood down but also, the Emblem mechanic has the potential of being really cool with potentail tag team **** or maybe they can focus on the martial art by giving us a Fire Emblem brawler (with some swordplay, of course). Overrated or not, I think they'd be cool.

The sad part though is that getting any of these three is a pipe dream. Bamco openly does not give a **** about Soulcalibur after VI sold well but not as well as they wanted it to which isn't helped by its producer no longer working there (before anyone brings up Nintendo Classics, that likely required little effort from Bamco so they probably didn't care), Mortal Kombat is never gonna get in Smash due to being unknown in Japan and the ESRB being a ***** and Alear's chances grow weaker by the day...

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Fire Emblem called.

I don't get it

 

[Gengar84]

In no particular order, outside of the very first one...

Nightmare from Soulcalibur is absolutely my most wanted. It was the second fighting franchise I got into (first being Smash) so I got a lot of fondness for it. And Nightmare is such a cool-looking character too. He would also have a decent bit of uniqueness, being our first true superheavy swordie (Ganondorf doesn't count) but still have a surprising amount of mobility with Grim Stride all while having these massively powerful disjointed strikes with Soul Edge... and probably a billion moves for the same reason as Kazuya. It'd be really cool.

Either Scorpion or Sub-Zero from Mortal Kombat. Another fighting series I got into early on (having parents that didn't really care about age rating has its perks) sporting some absolutely iconic characters, but the ninjas are probably one of the most well-known fighting game archetypes. It'd be cool to see them.

Alear due to personal attachments that I wanna keep private to not bring the mood down but also, the Emblem mechanic has the potential of being really cool with potentail tag team **** or maybe they can focus on the martial art by giving us a Fire Emblem brawler (with some swordplay, of course). Overrated or not, I think they'd be cool.

The sad part though is that getting any of these three is a pipe dream. Bamco openly does not give a ** about Soulcalibur after VI sold well but not as well as they wanted it to which isn't helped by its producer no longer working there (before anyone brings up Nintendo Classics, that likely required little effort from Bamco so they probably didn't care), Mortal Kombat is never gonna get in Smash due to being unknown in Japan and the ESRB being a *** and Alear's chances grow weaker by the day...

Sub-Zero is also on my own top 10. Both Nightmare and Scorpion are very high as well. They may be long shots but it does help Nighmare’s case that Bamco has historically helped with Smash. Ed Boon has been vocal about supporting Mortal Kombat for Smash and modern MK games are on Switch so Nintendo clearly isn’t totally against the series. They may not be the most likely but I do think each has a legitimate case.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I don't get it

Sub-Zero is also on my own top 10. Both Nightmare and Scorpion are very high as well. They may be long shots but it does help Nighmare’s case that Bamco has historically helped with Smash. Ed Boon has been vocal about supporting Mortal Kombat for Smash and modern MK games are on Switch so Nintendo clearly isn’t totally against the series. They may not be the most likely but I do think each has a legitimate case.

Bamco has historically helped with Nintendo in general. We got things like Star Fox Assault, the Mario Kart Arcade games and Pokken thanks to them.

But historically helping out Nintendo does not guarantee a character. That was an argument in favor of Hayabusa during Ultimate speculation and look where we are now, with no Ninja Gaiden. Collabing with Nintendo helps, but it does not guarantee.

Also, I would assume it's NoA and NoE handling Mortal Kombat since modern MK is outright not allowed to be sold in Japan. Netherrealm is not willing to sacrifice their style for the sake of adhering to CERO's demands.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

On the subject of ballots, who are everyone’s top three most wanted Smash characters? Even if they’re unlikely, what’s the best argument you can come up with to support each of their inclusion? For me, it’s Magus, Jinx, and the Battletoads.

Phoenix wright.

Ace Attorney is the only popular Capcom series absent from Ultimate so that just feels weird.

Kazuma Kiryu

Yakuza is Sega's biggest series and since their now bringing it to Nintendo so it's the best time for it.
Although i'm worried their going to use his english dub VA for his voice lines, ugh.

Masaki/Cybuster

Bandai Namco has been making an effort to bring the Super robot wars series outside of japan in recent years, with it being such a long running series i think it makes sense to be here.

 

[Gengar84]

Bamco has historically helped with Nintendo in general. We got things like Star Fox Assault, the Mario Kart Arcade games and Pokken thanks to them.

But historically helping out Nintendo does not guarantee a character. That was an argument in favor of Hayabusa during Ultimate speculation and look where we are now.

True, it doesn’t guarantee anything but it certainly doesn’t hurt. If nothing else, it should make character negotiations a lot easier since they already work closely with Nintendo.

For Mortal Kombat, that is true for the main series but they have shown they have no issues toning down their characters when they appear as guests in other games like Injustice. Mortal Kombat had a kid’s cartoon in the 90’s and the original movie was pretty tame. It all comes down to whether Nintendo wants to include reps from a game where the mainline entries can’t be sold in the country. That’s a legit question and it could go either way whether the massive global appeal can overcome that.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

True, it doesn’t guarantee anything but it certainly doesn’t hurt. If nothing else, it should make character negotiations a lot easier since they already work closely with Nintendo.

Also, you replied before I could edit it but the other thing about MK is how the games are straight up banned in Japan.

If Sakurai has misgivings about characters from games not available in one region of the world, you'd think those misgivings would be at their peak if it's about a game he himself is not legally allowed to get for research.

 

[Gengar84]

Also, you replied before I could edit it but the other thing about MK is how the games are straight up banned in Japan.

If Sakurai has misgivings about characters from games not available in one region of the world, you'd think those misgivings would be at their peak if it's about a game he himself is not legally allowed to get for research.

Yeah, that is a real concern but I’m not sure it completely disqualifies them. It’s just a question if the appeal to the rest of the world is worth the tradeoff of being banned in Japan. From a pure sales perspective, I’d say it’s worth it since Smash is such a huge global franchise.

 

[DarthEnderX]

On the subject of ballots, who are everyone’s top three most wanted Smash characters?

Top 5! In order:

 

[Noipoi]

On the subject of ballots, who are everyone’s top three most wanted Smash characters? Even if they’re unlikely, what’s the best argument you can come up with to support each of their inclusion? For me, it’s Magus, Jinx, and the Battletoads.

I already laid out Magus’ case but Jinx has a ton of mainstream attention through Arcane and League. She’s going to be one of the major characters in 2XKO that is rumored to also be coming to Switch 2. League already has spinoffs like Ruined King on Switch. I think she’s likely the single most currently popular video game character for the general public that is currently receiving a mainstream push.

For Battletoads, RARE is the third party developer with the strongest historical Nintendo connection and many of their games are now playable on the Switch online service including Battletoads in Battlemaniacs and Battletoads & Double Dragon. RARE’s games were actually the most promoted and celebrated announcements for Switch Online additions. Battletoads got a reboot in 2020 and Rash appeared in Killer Instinct and is the most competitively viable character in it.

I’m probably just biased but I feel like Jinx actually has a very good chance of making it in Smash. Depending on the Chrono projects, I feel like Magus actually does too. If Smash wants a fun retro surprise character, Rash is a really good choice for that role.

I have two characters I’m really gunning for next time around.

Sans (Undertale is one of my favorite games and Deltarune is on its way there, I desperately want the series to get a fighter)

Waluigi (I like seeing dreams memes come true)

There are others I’d love to see, like Rayman, Crash, Dixie Kong, and I’m always interested in seeing who the new Pokemon will be. But Waluigi and Sans are my main two.

 

[Gengar84]

I have two characters I’m really gunning for next time around.

Sans (Undertale is one of my favorite games and Deltarune is on its way there, I desperately want the series to get a fighter)

Waluigi (I like seeing dreams memes come true)

There are others I’d love to see, like Rayman, Crash, Dixie Kong, and I’m always interested in seeing who the new Pokemon will be. But Waluigi and Sans are my main two.

I’d say out of all our lists so far, yours is the most likely to come completely true. Both Sans and Waluigi are very strong contenders I could easily see making it in.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

On the subject of ballots, who are everyone’s top three most wanted Smash characters? Even if they’re unlikely, what’s the best argument you can come up with to support each of their inclusion? For me, it’s Magus, Jinx, and the Battletoads.

I'm not really sure if I can give good arguments for ALL of them, since a lot of my most wanted characters are kinda just smaller first party franchises I have nostalgia for and third parties I liked the games of (Digimon) or think would be funny (Monokuma). Like I consider myself pretty lucky in Ultimate because I was kind of on the Banjo train but didn't know how likely it was because he was Microsoft owned, so when that Jiggy bounced across DK's house I actually screamed out loud IRL lmao

And then I ALSO got Pyra/Mythra later on (I remember I had to work that day and I looked at the website while I was at work and saw Pyra and Mythra and was unable to focus the rest of the work day lol), so I kinda made out like a bandit in Ultimate DLC.

With that said, I think my biggest want right now is a Rhythm Heaven character. With the plan for next Smash likely coming soon if it hasn't already happened, I genuinely do feel like the announcement of Rhythm Heaven Groove is happening at the perfect time to potentially put that idea that got scrapped in Smash 4 back in Sakurai's mind and makes it an ongoing series again instead of having to hope he goes back to a franchise that hasn't had a game in a decade.

Second is definitely Bandana Dee, but I feel like he's one of the more... standard picks out of characters I like? As in like, most people think he has a pretty good shot this time around I think? He's the last of the Return to Dreamland crew, his role has been on the up and up lately to the point where in Rainbow Curse, Battle Royale, Fighters 2 (at the start anyway), and Forgotten Land he's Kirby's Player 2, I could see him potentially be playable in Air Riders, though obviously that depends. We still don't really have many spear fighters since Byleth only uses a spear like 1/3 of the time, I'd love to dive into Dee's history and pull out Megaton Punch as a Final Smash, and I'm a huge Kirby fan (duh) and was always gonna root for Bandana Dee lol

After that is probably Noah or Mio. I've said before I don't think both is happening, nor do I think we'll get a class change system since I feel like that would just be kind of odd. If I had to pick one, I'd prefer Mio I think for her unique weaponry, but Noah is probably more likely as the holder of the plot sword and could potentially have a mode or "install"/Limit type thing for Lucky Seven's alternate attacks maybe? So I still think he could be an interesting character in his own right. I don't personally see a brand new Xenoblade happening in the interim, but otherwise I can't really explain this one too effectively minus I just love the **** out of Xenoblade 3 lmao

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

My third constantly changes on a whim, but my top 2 has been mostly the same since the Brawl days (aside from pre-Ultimate when entered the picture and was my primary focus after Waluigi got Assist Trophied again). Waluigi and Shadow.

And of the two, I'm putting more focus on Shadow next time since we're in a post-Sephiroth in Smash world and Shadow has had a major boost in spotlight recently that he could be more enticing of a pick for all parties involved.

 

[Gengar84]

I'm not really sure if I can give good arguments for ALL of them, since a lot of my most wanted characters are kinda just smaller first party franchises I have nostalgia for and third parties I liked the games of (Digimon) or think would be funny (Monokuma). Like I consider myself pretty lucky in Ultimate because I was kind of on the Banjo train but didn't know how likely it was because he was Microsoft owned, so when that Jiggy bounced across DK's house I actually screamed out loud IRL lmao

And then I ALSO got Pyra/Mythra later on (I remember I had to work that day and I looked at the website while I was at work and saw Pyra and Mythra and was unable to focus the rest of the work day lol), so I kinda made out like a bandit in Ultimate DLC.

With that said, I think my biggest want right now is a Rhythm Heaven character. With the plan for next Smash likely coming soon if it hasn't already happened, I genuinely do feel like the announcement of Rhythm Heaven Groove is happening at the perfect time to potentially put that idea that got scrapped in Smash 4 back in Sakurai's mind and makes it an ongoing series again instead of having to hope he goes back to a franchise that hasn't had a game in a decade.

Second is definitely Bandana Dee, but I feel like he's one of the more... standard picks out of characters I like? As in like, most people think he has a pretty good shot this time around I think? He's the last of the Return to Dreamland crew, his role has been on the up and up lately to the point where in Rainbow Curse, Battle Royale, Fighters 2 (at the start anyway), and Forgotten Land he's Kirby's Player 2, I could see him potentially be playable in Air Riders, though obviously that depends. We still don't really have many spear fighters since Byleth only uses a spear like 1/3 of the time, I'd love to dive into Dee's history and pull out Megaton Punch as a Final Smash, and I'm a huge Kirby fan (duh) and was always gonna root for Bandana Dee lol

After that is probably Noah or Mio. I've said before I don't think both is happening, nor do I think we'll get a class change system since I feel like that would just be kind of odd. If I had to pick one, I'd prefer Mio I think for her unique weaponry, but Noah is probably more likely as the holder of the plot sword and could potentially have a mode or "install"/Limit type thing for Lucky Seven's alternate attacks maybe? So I still think he could be an interesting character in his own right. I don't personally see a brand new Xenoblade happening in the interim, but otherwise I can't really explain this one too effectively minus I just love the **** out of Xenoblade 3 lmao

I’d say there’s a very realistic chance all of yours could actually appear in the base game of the next Smash. It definitely helps that they’re all first party characters with recent relevancy. For my list, I think they all have a chance but none for the base game.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I’d say there’s a very realistic chance all of yours could actually appear in the base game of the next Smash. It definitely helps that they’re all first party characters with recent relevancy. For my list, I think they all have a chance but none for the base game.

Yeah, them being recently relevant and having a legitimate shot is probably at least part of why they're high up on my list, but I do still have pipe dream hopes like Starfy, something from Fossil Fighters (which I'm actually hoping will have a shot at revival with the Switch 2's mouse mode for excavation and the fact it has a mic like the DS did to remove dust buildup), Reimu from Touhou, plus stuff like 2B for a friend of mine that really likes her and I could see as a legit pick from Square Enix if they wanted to add another franchise, and I could also see Sans happening and wouldn't mind if he did but my personal pick for that would be Papyrus because I feel like that trailer would be hilarious and I feel like his goofy super expressive antics would be really fun to play as and watch and is almost synonymous with Undertale's sense of humor.

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah, them being recently relevant and having a legitimate shot is probably at least part of why they're high up on my list, but I do still have pipe dream hopes like Starfy, something from Fossil Fighters (which I'm actually hoping will have a shot at revival with the Switch 2's mouse mode for excavation and the fact it has a mic like the DS did to remove dust buildup), Reimu from Touhou, plus stuff like 2B for a friend of mine that really likes her and I could see as a legit pick from Square Enix if they wanted to add another franchise, and I could also see Sans happening and wouldn't mind if he did but my personal pick for that would be Papyrus because I feel like that trailer would be hilarious and I feel like his goofy super expressive antics would be really fun to play as and watch and is almost synonymous with Undertale's sense of humor.

My lists are generally solely based on who I’d be most excited for and likelihood doesn’t factor in a whole lot but it does help. For example, Zegram Ghart (Rogue Galaxy) is one of my all time favorite video game characters but he has no chance whatsoever so I never really push for him. He actually has a really compelling design and moveset if he ever did make it in (I even made a full moveset for him myself).

As for Noah and/or Mio, I think they’re very likely but I am curious if they actually go with Elma instead thanks to the X remake. She works better as a solo fighter than Noah or Mio who would kind of feel like they were missing something if we only got one or the other. We just got a Xenoblade transform duo in Ultimate so I agree it’s less likely they’d do that twice in a row for the same series.

 

[Louie G.]

Who are everyone’s top three most wanted Smash characters? Even if they’re unlikely, what’s the best argument you can come up with to support each of their inclusion?

Chorus Kids (Rhythm Heaven) - Rhythm Heaven is being revived, and while it's uncertain whether or not the new game has any space for the Chorus Kids they are still emblematic of the series' most successful game thus far and are thematically fitting characters to represent Nintendo's most musical series. It probably helps that they would have been considered at some point in time so they would likely be Sakurai's first thought when brainstorming RH representation. I'd be okay with anyone at this point, so I hope the new game will have some influence.

Arle Nadja (Puyo Puyo) - Sakurai seems to enjoy paying homage to pivotal arcade games and while he's gone on record saying he sucks at Puyo Puyo, I think its influence and cultural omnipotence in Japan speaks for itself. Puyo 2 is a permanent fixture of Japanese arcades not far detached from the likes of Street Fighter. While the state of the series is a little strange right now it remains one of Sega's strongest and most everlasting brands, its influence on its genre is undeniable and the series has had stake in just about every Nintendo console thus far (Switch 2 being no exception). While a more exciting current brand like Yakuza feels more sensible right now Puyo is pretty much the defacto pick if they want to go for something more 'classic'.

Sans (Undertale) - So many strong arguments in favor of further Undertale content and Sans himself that I don't want to write you an essay about it, but I think the most compelling argument is simply how warmly received Sans' Mii Costume was. There is no doubt in my mind it sold exponentially more than any other costume and the buzz really spoke for itself. Outside of that, Undertale remains a resonant achievement in not just indie games but games in general, Sans is easily one of the most universal guest characters they could add with equal, immense clout in both the east and west. Deltarune keeps the series in frequent conversation and Toby Fox is a friend of just about everyone on the inside it seems. Kind of a slam dunk (lol) character choice from nearly every practical angle.

 

[Perkilator]

On the subject of ballots, who are everyone’s top three most wanted Smash characters?

Too many to name in my case, but if I had to bring it down to just three?

1. Waluigi
2. Bandana Waddle Dee
3. Shadow the Hedgehog

 

[RodNutTakin]

the series has had stake in just about every Nintendo console thus far (Switch 2 being no exception).

I should verify with saying this isn't hyperbole, the series has seen new releases on every non-dedicated Nintendo platform with the understandable exception of the Virtual Boy. Not a single mainline installment has completely skipped Nintendo systems, either.

 

[Laniv]

On the subject of ballots, who are everyone’s top three most wanted Smash characters? Even if they’re unlikely, what’s the best argument you can come up with to support each of their inclusion? For me, it’s Magus, Jinx, and the Battletoads.

I already laid out Magus’ case but Jinx has a ton of mainstream attention through Arcane and League. She’s going to be one of the major characters in 2XKO that is rumored to also be coming to Switch 2. League already has spinoffs like Ruined King on Switch. I think she’s likely the single most currently popular video game character for the general public that is currently receiving a mainstream push.

For Battletoads, RARE is the third party developer with the strongest historical Nintendo connection and many of their games are now playable on the Switch online service including Battletoads in Battlemaniacs and Battletoads & Double Dragon. RARE’s games were actually the most promoted and celebrated announcements for Switch Online additions. Battletoads got a reboot in 2020 and Rash appeared in Killer Instinct and is the most competitively viable character in it.

I’m probably just biased but I feel like Jinx actually has a very good chance of making it in Smash. Depending on the Chrono projects, I feel like Magus actually does too. If Smash wants a fun retro surprise character, Rash is a really good choice for that role.

Toad, Tom Nook, and Dixie Kong

 

[Thegameandwatch]

On the subject of ballots, who are everyone’s top three most wanted Smash characters?

First Party:

1. Shy Guy
2. Magolor
3. Dixie Kong

3rd Party:

1. Doom Slayer
2. Sans
3. Zero

 

[AreJay25]

On the subject of ballots, who are everyone’s top three most wanted Smash characters? Even if they’re unlikely, what’s the best argument you can come up with to support each of their inclusion? For me, it’s Magus, Jinx, and the Battletoads.

I already laid out Magus’ case but Jinx has a ton of mainstream attention through Arcane and League. She’s going to be one of the major characters in 2XKO that is rumored to also be coming to Switch 2. League already has spinoffs like Ruined King on Switch. I think she’s likely the single most currently popular video game character for the general public that is currently

Rayman, Bandana Dee, Doom Slayer.

Bandana Dee is easily the likeliest of the three here. As time passes on, it's getting harder and harder to justify his absence when he's become one of the core members of the Kirby cast, and just a popular character in general. Plus, we don't have a spear user yet, so he's already got a unique niche he can fulfill. The only thing really standing in his way is, funnily enough, Sakurai himself, but I guess we'll see what happens with Air Riders lmao.

Doom Slayer I think has a pretty alright shot too. Doom is the reason why the FPS genre became what it is, and Sakurai even acknlowdged that after the Mii Costume reveal. It's a series that has managed to stand the test of time, from the seemingly immortal modding scene to the major success of the latest games. Bethesda (and by extension, Microsoft) also have a pretty solid relationship with Nintendo, so I can't imagine it'd be too hard to negotiate for a fully playable character. Plus, like, the Slayer's moveset potential is absolutely insane. The series not being AS big in Japan might be a deterrent, but I think its sheer influence on gaming as a whole could supersede that altogether.

Rayman is my most wanted character, but uhh.... he's arguably the least likely one here lmao, what with Ubsioft setting itself on fire every other week and the series being dead for quite some time now. Plus, it's another case of a franchise not exactly taking off in Japan. Nevertheless, he's been a popular request since 4, Ubisoft has really close ties with Nintendo, he's already had content in two games, and his franchise may or may not see a revival at some point in the near future. So who knows man.

Picking a top 3 was pretty easy. Picking a top 10, however...

 

[Watuna4343]

My brother in Christ, Famicon Detective Club isn't a new IP. The name literally gives away that it started on the Famicom so Ayumi and the Trainee aren't really fighting for a slot here.

And even if it were a new IP, there doesn't need to be only one "new IP slot", as seen in Smash 4 where we got both Wii Fit Trainer and Shulk.

'Revived IP'/'new IP in Smash' - there fixed it for you.

My brother in Christ, I never argued that only 1 new IP gets into a new Smash game. I even said I can see the Trainee get in and that I had made a roster prediction where I predicted both of them to get in - what I did argue was simply that the Trainee feels more like a Wii Fit Trainer inclusion rather than Nintendo/Sakurai wanting to put in a new IP - basically the Trainee being more of a Switch-era rep with a highly successful game to rep the era, rather than to put a new, ongoing IP (since the franchise doesn't strike me as an ongoing one despite the game's success, what with no plans ever indicating to a sequel and of course as mentioned a trickier compatibility). That's why I'm a tad lower on Ring Fit despite again, thinking that I lean towards a fighter being included - the timing issue that Sakurai has mentioned before and the franchise's very uncertain future are what give me more pause

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

On the subject of ballots, who are everyone’s top three most wanted Smash characters? Even if they’re unlikely, what’s the best argument you can come up with to support each of their inclusion?

Gonna split this into first & third party:

First Party
Impa - Hyrule Warriors Age of Calamity demonstrated the gameplay potential she really has, and her various different appearances could really lend her to a wide range of outfits/costumes. That's not even getting into LoZ long needing another fighter to shake up the Ganon/Zelda/Link emphasis.

BWD - Beyond Kirby needing more content in general, the gradual development of Bandana Dee on top of the varying copy power applications that Waddle Dees have had means we really could get effective representation of such if the execution was solid enough (ie a moveset inspired by spear and parasol).

Dixie Kong - Basically a combination of the previous two explanations; there's a very strong DK Country inspired moveset to be had if done right and Dixie's major role in arguably two of the best Donkey Kong games ever made (Diddy's Kong Quest & Tropical Freeze) makes her long overdue for Smash.

Third Party
Geno - Purely sentimental choice, but there is a very fun timed hits emphasized moveset Geno could wield that would be fitting and make him stand out. Moreover, he's probably the best avatar of the long relationship between SE & Nintendo; a character belonging to both companies coming from their closest collaboration.

-Crash Bandicoot - I'm always going to be a tireless advocate of platformer characters in Smash and Crash has the kind of energy that really fits the series. I won't lie and say part of it isn't driven by having the last major 90s platformer mascot prominent in SSB, however there is a chaotic kind of fighter there that would genuinely feel different from Mario, Sonic, Pac-Man, etc.

-Amaterasu - A wonderfully designed character from a genuinely beautiful game that has a very distinct hook in her kind of attacks and would be one of the rare quadruped fighters in Smash. Throw in the Okami soundtracks and the endless potential of a stage with Celestial Brush strokes and she becomes too good to not want in SSB.

 

[Will]

1. Scorpion. Talk about legality all you want, I’m a believer. If I’m not the person behind his next support thread it’s because I’m ****ing dead.

2. Waluigi. The OG. You either love him or hate him. If Pauline gets in over him, Waluigi supporters will never hear the end of it from the haters. Anybody else? Eh, it’s respectable, but I’m hoping that personal talk from Reggie has him locked in for next game. You already know if he’s in, he’ll be one of the first reveals.

3. Fortnite Jonesy/Hope. I bit the apple last year with friends; it’s a fun game. It’s been out for almost a decade, has grown exponentially since, and is still relevant today. They even have Nintendo bundles.

It’s like Minecraft and Steve, at this point it seems like an eventuality.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

My brother in Christ, I never argued that only 1 new IP gets into a new Smash game. I even said I can see the Trainee get in and that I had made a roster prediction where I predicted both of them to get in - what I did argue was simply that the Trainee feels more like a Wii Fit Trainer inclusion rather than Nintendo/Sakurai wanting to put in a new IP - basically the Trainee being more of a Switch-era rep with a highly successful game to rep the era, rather than to put a new, ongoing IP

Fair enough...

(since the franchise doesn't strike me as an ongoing one despite the game's success, what with no plans ever indicating to a sequel and of course as mentioned a trickier compatibility).

The team behind Ring Fit is likely busy on Drag X Drive right now so the lack of any news is understandable. Wacky stuff that makes as much use of a console or accessorys quirks like that is kind of their bread and butter.

That's why I'm a tad lower on Ring Fit despite again, thinking that I lean towards a fighter being included - the timing issue that Sakurai has mentioned before and the franchise's very uncertain future are what give me more pause

The timing issue only works for specifically recent releases as of when Sakurai makes his project plans. A game that has been around for 5 years is not going to get screwed over for having "poor timing"

 

[Louie G.]

Yeah, I don't think timing screws over someone like Ring Fit Trainee but rather someone like Alear, Meowscarada, characters whose time in the sun is conditional to the most recent of their rotating casts. Generally a major Switch release will be relevant for as long as the Switch is still in our peripheral - in this case, we have yet to properly move on from it assuming Sakurai is already hard at work cultivating the roster. Even so, just about every Smash game emphasizes its previous generation.

I think concern over a series' future is sound but overstated. Just as I don't think Min-Min is in that much trouble for ARMS 2 not being confirmed yet, I think Ring Fit's 15 million sales assure at least the door is kept open to continue the series down the line. A strong initial showing, a good deal of moveset potential should be enough to counteract any concern over that. For reference, Ring Fit Adventure outsold Splatoon 1 by like three times and we had pretty much labeled Inkling (and Spring Man, even) as a lock frame one.

Some years ago I may have agreed to tread with caution but Nintendo IP move slower these days and we got the likes of Shulk and Min-Min after their first release. And I'm confident Inkling was locked in before Splatoon 2. If those are fair game then I think Ring Fit Trainee is still sitting in a really good place.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

For reference, Ring Fit Adventure outsold Splatoon 1 by like three times and we had pretty much labeled Inkling (and Spring Man, even) as a lock frame one.

Being fair, a new IP selling 5 million units on the Wii U is far more impressive than 15 million on the Switch.

Both are very good numbers but for reference, there have been more copies of Ring Fit sold than there have been Wii Us sold.

 

[Louie G.]

Being fair, a new IP selling 5 million units on the Wii U is far more impressive than 15 million on the Switch.

Both are very good numbers but for reference, there have been more copies of Ring Fit sold than there have been Wii Us sold.

Oh I know, but I'm just emphasizing the hard numbers. A new IP doing 15 million on Switch is pretty damn good too, when your point of reference is ARMS or Astral Chain. I'm not discrediting Splatoon's success but on paper, Ring Fit has reached more people than - well, surprisingly, every Splatoon game so far.

There's a lot of nuance to this so I'm not necessarily saying Ring Fit Trainee is 'more popular' than Splatoon or that their series is more marketable or successful at large. I feel like a second Ring Fit game would not put up these numbers - but it does put into perspective how big this release was, when it was outdoing one of Nintendo's current pillar IP and even some Pokemon games.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

There's a lot of nuance to this so I'm not necessarily saying Ring Fit Trainee is 'more popular' than Splatoon or that their series is more marketable or successful at large

Nah, with how Splatoon is marketed, we can absolutely say Ring Fit was handled better in that department. And that comes from someone who loves Splatoon.

Like, even ignoring the cringe stuff from the first game (YOU'RE A KID NOW!), Splatoon has this very bad habit of its pre-release trailers being ****ing confusing to anyone who doesn't play the games, making it hard to really get what it's supposed to be about from a glance.

Compare that with Ring Fit being straight to the point; you get a ring accessory, it helps you do exercises, and they're translated into gameplay inputs. It's super straightforward and not once does it feel like you're not understanding what the point is.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Ring Fit has reached more people than - well, surprisingly, every Splatoon game so far

I feel like Splatoon would have had more sales if online wasn’t paid. Especially since some places didn’t even have official online support.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Oh I know, but I'm just emphasizing the hard numbers. A new IP doing 15 million on Switch is pretty damn good too, when your point of reference is ARMS or Astral Chain. I'm not discrediting Splatoon's success but on paper, Ring Fit has reached more people than - well, surprisingly, every Splatoon game so far.

View attachment 402661

There's a lot of nuance to this so I'm not necessarily saying Ring Fit Trainee is 'more popular' than Splatoon or that their series is more marketable or successful at large. I feel like a second Ring Fit game would not put up these numbers - but it does put into perspective how big this release was, when it was outdoing one of Nintendo's current pillar IP and even some Pokemon games.

The fact that Mario Wonder slots above it by just 0.7 million is kinda crazy to me.

Like I know Ring Fit technically got lucky because it's an exercise game that came out right before everyone got stuck in their houses from the pandemic, but I don't think a game getting "lucky" should discredit it at all, otherwise we'd have to discredit Animal Crossing New Horizons for shooting up to best seller number 2 on the entire system lmao

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Ring Fit's success feels deserved because it was taking a Wii era concept like an exercise title and giving it the kind of real depth that actually improved the experience for those wanting exercise and even some interested in an actual game. In some ways it was one of the most illustrative signs of the Switch's contrast against the Wii U. The latter gained a reputation for gimmick releases that appealed to neither hardcore fans nor casual ones, while the former put out the kind of ideal novel title that worked for a broad audience while still pleasing some dedicated gamers.

Some Wii type follow-ups felt less impressive (1-2 Switch) or at best lateral moves from its predecessors (Switch Sports). RFA was an evolution that actually worked.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

If Sora comes back for the next game i hope they somehow manage to grab a couple extra songs and that one of them is this banger. I love this song

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So if Ring Fit Adventure isn't too late...

Is Astral Chain?