Official Smash for Switch 2 - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[SPEN18]

Three Sacred Treasures should've just become a staple. It pays homage to the original NES game while still respecting the new(er) coolness of Uprising. I hope it returns as Pit's FS.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Three Sacred Treasures should've just become a staple.

Kyo, Iori and Chizuru

 

[Thegameandwatch]

The character after Mega Man is the Onion Knight which is my Final Fantasy pick, I made a Youtube video about why I think it's a particularly good choice (Switching between classes) but he is kind of obscure.

I think it’s because FF3 didn’t release in the west until the DS and the original version recently.

 

[Watuna4343]

View attachment 402337
This is the new version of my personal roster, I’m trying to improve on it based on the feedback from last time, I have a few notes.
Bandanna Waddle Dee and Regular Waddle Dee are sharing a slot, The moveset would be appropriate for Bandanna.
All the Mii types have been moved into just one mii slot which would have all of their moves as options.
There are more characters (Both returning and new) that I wanted to include but I’m pushing off into hypothetical dlc because it’s already getting pretty big.
Reminder I didn’t cut anyone in favor of any of the echoes, Im not counting them in the overall number they’re bonuses.
Does it still need more work?

Nor bad, solid overall. My biggest objections with the cuts are still Rosalina (keep her and cut Bowser Jr. instead - I genuinely can't see us losing the only puppet fighter THIS easily when so many vets return) and Robin (FE can very much afford 5 characters and Robin is the only mage rep of the franchise AND extra representation for Awakening which I think is very much a given to happen, I can't see him getting cut) and I'd cut back on the 3rd parties since 1/5 of the roster being 3rd parties in what I assume is only base roster feels like overkill - like Snake, Terry, the guy next to Ryu and the one next to Mega Man and maybe Steve, all these feel a bit excessive - . My only other big objection with the newcomers is that I still think Skull Kid has no business becoming a fighter over other Zelda reps.. He just feels like such a 'why now?' inclusion imo over a Switch era rep, I just can't see him get in, but overall not bad.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

My favorite thing is to see people talking about characters they want that aren't commonly talked about but are

Nor bad, solid overall. My biggest objections with the cuts are still Rosalina (keep her and cut Bowser Jr. instead - I genuinely can't see us losing the only puppet fighter THIS easily when so many vets return) and Robin (FE can very much afford 5 characters and Robin is the only mage rep of the franchise AND extra representation for Awakening which I think is very much a given to happen, I can't see him getting cut) and I'd cut back on the 3rd parties since 1/5 of the roster being 3rd parties in what I assume is only base roster feels like overkill - like Snake, Terry, the guy next to Ryu and the one next to Mega Man and maybe Steve, all these feel a bit excessive - . My only other big objection with the newcomers is that I still think Skull Kid has no business becoming a fighter over other Zelda reps.. He just feels like such a 'why now?' inclusion imo over a Switch era rep, I just can't see him get in, but overall not bad.

The first time everyone said there were too few third parties and now there's too many.
I can't win lol.
As for Skull Kid though, I feel like he's a good pick. I know a lot of people want a BOTW era character but Skull Kid was the most common Zelda request for a long time, He's in the same realm of someone like King K. Rool, Not particularly relevant to the current day, But a long time request and a fan favorite character.
As for why I picked him over a BOTW or TOTK character, I already added several Switch era characters, Ring Fit Trainee, Toy-Con Robot, Meowscarada. Ayumi Tachibana is a character who got revitalized in the Switch generation. And I changed Ganondorf to the TOTK design.

 

[dream1ng]

The first time everyone said there were too few third parties and now there's too many.
I can't win lol.

I think it's better now than it was before. Though tbf, if memory serves, you did almost triple the amount of third-parties, so... 12 out of 67 (I think?) is a little high for base, but at this point for Smash it's not... crazy (though tbh 67 itself is pushing it for base if we're starting over imo). It looks like you tried to put all existing third-party companies (except Disney) in base. I get it, but, if purposeful, I don't think you need to do that, if DLC is hypothetically still to come.

Next, Onion Knight might be conceptually interesting but, to be real, isn't a great choice. Obscurity is basically the opposite of what they go for with those kind of inclusions. I mean, you could license Onion Knight, or you could license Cloud Strife. Which might be in best interest of the game and budget?

I also can't imagine a new FE and Xenoblade come and go with neither being reflected on the roster. Not with the way those inclusions operate. I know you did have a Xenoblade newcomer last time, but I think the problem was who you picked rather than giving the series a new fighter.

But overall I do think it's a better designed roster than before, though a little big for base. Like last time, I think who got cut overall makes sense, and while a few of the inclusions are questionable (Labo Robot, Skull Kid - as much as people would like him), it's pretty solid imo.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

I think it's better now than it was before. Though tbf, if memory serves, you did almost triple the amount of third-parties, so... 12 out of 67 (I think?) is a little high for base, but at this point for Smash it's not... crazy (though tbh 67 itself is pushing it for base if we're starting over imo). It looks like you tried to put all existing third-party companies (except Disney) in base. I get it, but, if purposeful, I don't think you need to do that, if DLC is hypothetically still to come.

Next, Onion Knight might be conceptually interesting but, to be real, isn't a great choice. Obscurity is basically the opposite of what they go for with those kind of inclusions. I mean, you could license Onion Knight, or you could license Cloud Strife. Which might be in best interest of the game and budget?

I also can't imagine a new FE and Xenoblade come and go with neither being reflected on the roster. Not with the way those inclusions operate. I know you did have a Xenoblade newcomer last time, but I think the problem was who you picked rather than giving the series a new fighter.

But overall I do think it's a better designed roster than before, though a little big for base. Like last time, I think who got cut overall makes sense, and while a few of the inclusions are questionable (Labo Robot, Skull Kid - as much as people would like him), it's pretty solid imo.

It's actually 64 and there's 4 echoes (Although i'd like Daisy to be made more unique).
So it's like 60 characters.
As for Onion Knight, My Final Fantasy choice was either going to be him or Chocobo. And I went with Onion Knight because it seemed like it would be a more interesting moveset, The idea of the moves based on different classes gimmick just seems really cool to me. Chocobo might have been the better choice in terms of recognizability and maybe I should have put that instead.
I just really wanted to include a character that represents the Final Fantasy series as a whole rather than just a specific entry, Which is why I didn't just bring Cloud or Sephiroth back, Or do Terra or something.

 

[dream1ng]

It's actually 64 and there's 4 echoes (Although i'd like Daisy to be made more unique).
So it's like 60 characters.

There's 64 slots, but Mii counts for three and Pyra/Mythra for two.

Also the official character count for Ultimate more often than not counted the echoes separately as part of the total, so I did as well.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

There's 64 slots, but Mii counts for three and Pyra/Mythra for two.

Also the official character count for Ultimate more often than not counted the echoes separately as part of the total, so I did as well.

The Mii should not count as three, I would have all the Mii types just be one Mii.

 

[dream1ng]

The Mii should not count as three, I would have all the Mii types just be one Mii.

That's not going to translate to the character's costume market. Some of the license holders aren't going to sign off on their character using an unfaithful weapon like a sword or a blaster or being reduced to their fists if they normally would use a weapon.

Truncating the character hinders the costume ecosystem, which I think we can presume is lucrative. So it seems very unlikely all three Miis don't return.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

That's not going to translate to the character's costume market. Some of the license holders aren't going to sign off on their character using an unfaithful weapon like a sword or a blaster or being reduced to their fists if they normally would use a weapon.

Truncating the character hinders the costume ecosystem, which I think we can presume is lucrative. So it seems very unlikely all three Miis don't return.

No they do all return but they're the same character, The Brawler, Swordfighter, And Gunner moves all go to one Mii. You could mix moves from all of them.
It would be more work cause the costumes would have to have different versions that they'd like, Switch to depending on the move they are doing.
I know it would be more work but I think it would be a lot cooler, I'm not sure if it would be totally feasible the way i'm envisioning it but it's all hypothetical anyways so I feel like saying, Oh in the world where this roster would happen this would work.

 

[Louie G.]

This is the new version of my personal roster, I’m trying to improve on it based on the feedback from last time

Yknow, I actually dig this newcomer lineup quite a bit. Ayumi, Chorus Kids, DJ Octavio and the Labo Robot are an inspired bunch and I like your third party picks better than most. I'd say it's not on the more realistic end, mostly in that I don't see Jack Frost being chosen over an SMT protagonist but Jack is more in line with my personal preference so... no real complaints, I suppose. Although similarly I’m skeptical of pushing out Cloud in favor of Onion Knight, but we’ve touched on that. "Waddle Dee" as a catch-all slot for the species is something I've considered too and I like that you took the risk on that. This is honestly one of my more favorable newcomer lineups that I've seen in this thread.

As for who's missing, I think Tom Nook should be here. And Octoling, but maybe Octoling takes up half of Inkling's costume slots? Not sure if that's something that you've taken into consideration or not. Those two are, IMO, the two BIG evergreen characters to add next game that they can't afford to ignore. Overall though, I like the newcomers.

I'm trying not to fixate too much on what's missing, but it frustrates me that Little Mac can't return. Punch-Out is still an outlier here, a not-quite-retro legacy series akin to and arguably as big as / bigger than Kid Icarus yet it regularly gets shafted despite its lasting popularity and impact. Little Mac is a surprisingly popular character to play despite his polarizing design, he fills a particular niche that nobody else really does, I think he is justified in being one of those unshakable mainstays like Ness, Falcon and Pit who are able to stand the test of time whether their series is active or not. I'm not necessarily saying I want to see Ice Climbers or ROB cut either, but I think Mac should be in over one of those if push came to shove.

Realistically I'd say cut a couple third parties in favor of him and like... K. Rool, probably? Or Falco. I don't really see us losing K. Rool all that soon if we're gonna be losing other major fan favorites like Simon, Banjo, Sora, Cloud and Sephiroth. No skin off their backs to bring back the ballot first parties knowing other corners will need to be cut at the expense of some of the roster's other most popular characters, so removing someone like K. Rool after such a warm welcome feels pretty unnecessary - and DK is now a full-on active series again, if that's any concern. But that's my piece on cuts anyway.

 

[dream1ng]

As for Onion Knight, My Final Fantasy choice was either going to be him or Chocobo. And I went with Onion Knight because it seemed like it would be a more interesting moveset, The idea of the moves based on different classes gimmick just seems really cool to me. Chocobo might have been the better choice in terms of recognizability and maybe I should have put that instead.
I just really wanted to include a character that represents the Final Fantasy series as a whole rather than just a specific entry, Which is why I didn't just bring Cloud or Sephiroth back, Or do Terra or something.

It is interesting as a moveset idea, and I get wanting to cover the series holistically, but you're discarding one of the most popular characters on the roster, and in gaming, for it. I mean, you're cutting Square's most iconic character for Onion Knight.

Especially since it seems like the FF content has to be licensed on a per game basis, so if you wanted content from across the series (insofar as content that appeared specifically in different titles), that would significantly balloon what is probably already among the most expensive licensing.

It's a fine wishlist pick, but realistically, the return on a character far less familiar than what else their series has to offer isn't a good value proposition given the limited number of third-party spots and the reception alternative choices would garner in terms of the engagement that comes from recognition.

Even Chocobo, while more well known than Onion Knight... can't really compete with Cloud in terms of the response they'd elicit. I mean, they already had a chance to include these characters over Cloud, and again over Sephiroth (sort of), but there's a reason they didn't.

It speaks to why Geno hasn't been picked yet. With extremely limited seating per company, you could give the spot to a comparatively unrecognized character, and bear responsibility for the smaller audience that character draws in, or you could pick a bigger name, and cast a wider net.

There's a reason that with all the third-party series on the roster, every character is within the first three guesses of who they would choose. If not the first guess. Other than maybe Richter, but he's an echo.

It would be more work cause the costumes would have to have different versions that they'd like, Switch to depending on the move they are doing.

This is what I addressed, some license holders won't sign off on their characters bringing out weapons they've never used.

Hell, I don't think Nintendo would sign off on giving some of their characters certain kinds of weapons they've never used.

 

[Watuna4343]

My favorite thing is to see people talking about characters they want that aren't commonly talked about but are

The first time everyone said there were too few third parties and now there's too many.
I can't win lol.
As for Skull Kid though, I feel like he's a good pick. I know a lot of people want a BOTW era character but Skull Kid was the most common Zelda request for a long time, He's in the same realm of someone like King K. Rool, Not particularly relevant to the current day, But a long time request and a fan favorite character.
As for why I picked him over a BOTW or TOTK character, I already added several Switch era characters, Ring Fit Trainee, Toy-Con Robot, Meowscarada. Ayumi Tachibana is a character who got revitalized in the Switch generation. And I changed Ganondorf to the TOTK design.

I really wouldn't put him in the same vein as King K. Rool; I feel like King K. Rool was far more requested than Skull Kid. In regards to Zelda, it feels like the big request is really just 'a new non-Triforce newcomer' but there are many characters that are requests outside of Skull Kid - Midna, Impa, Tingle, Vaati and a newer character all come to mind, it's not really Skull Kid himself that is requested. As for the Switch characters, I mean usually that's what happens to franchises, characters that are either newer or evergreen staples get added and the older picks are usually the retro picks/surprise picks, not necessarily characters from a specific franchise that get added decades later to reflect a franchise's certain era - that's why in that sense, I see a newer Zelda character as making a lot more sense.

 

[Idon]

If you're following Square Enix's latest crossover in Dissidia, it's Bartz that incorporates all the classes into one moveset anyways.

Onion Kid uses Sage and Ninja at most while relying mostly on quick scrappy swordsmanship until he's able to transform.

 

[MBRedboy31]

This is what I addressed, some license holders won't sign off on their characters bringing out weapons they've never used.

Hell, I don't think Nintendo would sign off on giving some of their characters certain kinds of weapons they've never used.

To be fair, items exist, so every standard playable character in Smash uses swords and laser blasters some of the time (including all of the Mii costumes,) and all of the license holders signed off on that.

The issue is more so the idea that each Mii skin would need custom designed weapons, which wouldn’t work with every skin. Would a lot of Mii skins get Smash Bros-generic weapons if there isn’t a matching weapon for them, or would they use weapons from other Mii skins?

 

[Idon]

... Somehow doubt the argument that we need 3 different mii archetypes in order to appease Nintendo/3rd Parties' sense of accuracy holds water when you can do **** like this:

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

To be fair, items exist, so every standard playable character in Smash uses swords and laser blasters some of the time (including all of the Mii costumes,) and all of the license holders signed off on that.

The issue is more so the idea that each Mii skin would need custom designed weapons, which wouldn’t work with every skin. Would a lot of Mii skins get Smash Bros-generic weapons if there isn’t a matching weapon for them, or would they use weapons from other Mii skins?

That's the thing; while using items is one thing, this is more representing the character in particular as a Mii Fighter, which emphasizes a lot of more strict designs. It's part of the actual character in the same way Cloud's Buster Sword is. These aren't items they pick up. They're a tad more specific. While it seems arbitrary, it is noticeable how only Mii Fighter costumes tend to get very specific weapons just like regular characters do. In fact, we see this with other costumes(Hero has different swords based upon the costume, 2 per each respectively). So it stands to reason specifics are kind of important for that.

"Would you be okay if they picked up generic items?" and "Would you be okay if they were given a different generic weapon while fighting without items on?" are quite different questions. Arbitrary as it may seem, these aren't the same thing at the end of the day and the license holders do care about how a character is represented. A good example is that various costumes don't allow for mass changes at times. Most of Sonic's are extremely similar, since they want that particular design to be recognizable. We at least got a slightly better one nowadays, but still, it's complicated in that regard. I would've loved to see him have some references to his various friends, etc, but clearly Sega is not okay with that. The closest is... a darkish costume that reminds one of Shadow or Dark Super Sonic at best(and maybe his lightish costume being kind of like Silver's colors). Beyond that? Nope.