Smash bros needs more girls? Why

[Guybrush20X6]

If the Pikmin series were to get another rep, I'm hoping it is Brittany. As much as I like Alph, the fact that we see a female pilot for the first time in Pikmin (because we know Olimar's wifey stays at home). And she has a pretty big role in the game, too. And Nintendo did highlight Brittany as one of many "female characters" to be playable in Nintendo's upcoming games (I'm thinking they also mean Dixie Kong in Tropical Freeze). Reading that line, it sounds weird- but I guess they mean there will be more female characters in their upcoming games, not that Brittany will be in every other game like it sounds @_@

Well if there was a Pikmin 3 rep I would prefer it be Brittany. Not for gender politics but because her design is the most distinct from Olimar. Alpha would just be confusing if he was there with Olimar given he has only larger eyes separating them.

 

[loganhogan]

Where exactly do they draw the line on plausible newcomers? In this topic plausible female newcomers. Wii Fit Trainer ignores most of the arguments used against other characters. She had no importance over the Male Wii Fit Trainer, she wasn't popular either much less compared to the other characters outside her series, and to make it worse she wasn't considered among the pool of plausible characters.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Where exactly do they draw the line or plausible newcomers? In this topic plausible female newcomers. Wii Fit Trainer ignores most of the arguments used against other characters. She had no importance over the Male Wii Fit Trainer, she wasn't popular either much less compared to the other characters outside her series, and to make it worse she wasn't considered among the pool of plausible characters.

Honestly, who owned Wii Fit and even CARED about the Male Wii Fit Trainer?

 

[loganhogan]

Honestly, who owned Wii Fit and even CARED about the Male Wii Fit Trainer?

Nobody cared about either of them

 

[Hong]

Hey. Some people over here like him because he sounds and (on the month of release) looked like Captain Planet. :b

Don't know about guys but a lot of women felt more comfortable with the male trainer. I like the male trainer's voice more in the Japanese version, though I like the female trainer more in the English version (the one I presently own).

 

[StupendousMike]

I don't think it's a lot to ask for three or four females. Nintendo may lack females in lead roles overall, but there are enough characters that are strong in their own right to be characters.

This reminds me of the consensus about Pixar pre-Brave. While it was a little ridiculous for them to go thirteen movies before making one with a female lead, it didn't change the fact that most of their movies had really strong female characters in them. Jessie, EVE, Elastigirl, Violet, Colette, Dory, etc.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Kirby, Dedede and Meta Knight are all male. always have been.
i understand the confusion on Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard because there are no physical differences between the male and females within the pokemon games so whatever call them what you will. however Pikachu is male. you can tell by his tail. if its female it's shaped into a heart at the end.
and Game and Watch' name is Mr. Game and Watch so you can identify him as male as well. and Yoshi is debatable as well since in most regions outside of japan it is referred to as a male, however Miyamoto is on record saying he never assigned him a proper gender. and ROB, well w.e its a robot it has no gender to begin with.

What I was really saying was that you don't automatically jump to gender when you think of those character. It's extremely ill-defined.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Where exactly do they draw the line on plausible newcomers? In this topic plausible female newcomers. Wii Fit Trainer ignores most of the arguments used against other characters. She had no importance over the Male Wii Fit Trainer, she wasn't popular either much less compared to the other characters outside her series, and to make it worse she wasn't considered among the pool of plausible characters.

That falls under what I call the "Hawkgirl Rule". If a set of male and female counterparts are equally unknown in the eyes of the public, the female will be chosen. Hawkgirl was chosen over Hawkman in both the Justice League cartoon and Injustice with Hawkman having bit parts.

Before anyone brings up the villager, the male villager was the only one to get a trophy in Brawl and features in the advertising of AC a lot.

 

[Reznor]

That falls under what I call the "Hawkgirl Rule". If a set of male and female counterparts are equally unknown in the eyes of the public, the female will be chosen. Hawkgirl was chosen over Hawkman in both the Justice League cartoon and Injustice with Hawkman having bit parts.

Before anyone brings up the villager, the male villager was the only one to get a trophy in Brawl and features in the advertising of AC a lot.

Hawkman and Hawkgirl are both well known characters if we are talking about people who read comics
hawkgirl getting in over hawkman should have made some people mad Hawkgirl is ussually the sidekick (too bad there are no hawkman fans)
Injustice pissing off fans by picking characters that are girls instead of picking characters that are important (I will never stop hating the Injustice roster)

 

[Swamp Sensei]

To be perfectly fair, the female Wii Fit Trainer is the more popular of the two.

I remember reading that over 70% chose the female trainer when playing Wii Fit.

So... I think it was really a matter of popularity there.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

Fact is that while Hackman starred in the Superfriends cartoon, Hackgirl starred in the Justice Legue cartoon.
Question: How many people here know that Krystal was created to be a co-protagonist with a male character (Sabre) that never debuted because he was substituted by Fox Mc. Cloud, who also stealed all the Krystal parts in the game (Dinosaur Planet -> Starfox Adventures), reducing her to a former damsel in distress?
Oh! And about Barbara The Bat, in the meanwhile the article few posts above was written (and this one too: http://www.backofthecerealbox.com/2008/03/bitten-by-barbara-bat.html ) Daigasso Band Brothers has been imported in the occidental country as Jam With The Band (it took quite a long because they needed to change all the songs with someones more suitable to the occidental tastes).

 

[Reznor]

To be perfectly fair, the female Wii Fit Trainer is the more popular of the two.

I remember reading that over 70% chose the female trainer when playing Wii Fit.

So... I think it was really a matter of popularity there.

I wasn't talking about Wii Fit at all I was just ranting about Injustice
not even about Hawkman just about killer frost

 

[Ridley_Prime]

I like the Injustice roster :\, minus maybe one of the DLC choices, but don't see what this has to do with the thread topic.

 

[jaytalks]

Hawkman and Hawkgirl are both well known characters if we are talking about people who read comics
hawkgirl getting in over hawkman should have made some people mad Hawkgirl is ussually the sidekick (too bad there are no hawkman fans)
Injustice pissing off fans by picking characters that are girls instead of picking characters that are important (I will never stop hating the Injustice roster)

In defense of Hawkgirl, many characters start of as sidekicks or partners to characters when they come from a family title only to go into their own solo character (i.e. Nightwing). So it's unfair to dismiss her as a sidekick. She was presented more as a partner similar to Wasp and Ant-Man. Hawkgirl has had her own title (right after Infinite Crisis) and was a strong member of Brad Meltzer's Justice League and that didn't feature Hawkman at all. She is mostly a separate character at this point, at least prior to the New 52.

Back to plausible newcomers. I think Wii Fit Trainer was always plausible, we just didn't know it. The Smash community has this sense of likelihood that is a bit overconfident in its certainty. I think we should have a bit more humility when it comes to possible characters. The whole notion of WTF character relies on the notion that the community knows just about every plausible character in the game. I don't really like the term WTF. ROB and Mr.. Game & Watch are both retro, and Wii Fit Trainer is a good representative of the last generation.

 

[loganhogan]

What do you guys think of Robin? Robin is a gender neutral character but could count either way. I've observed Awakening's story and I think people ignore everyone else who isn't Chrom. He falls off the radar past Chapter 12. Have you played Radiant Dawn? Do you remember how the game shifts focus from Micaiah's team to Elincia's and then to Ike's and stays mostly with Ike? That's what happens in Awakening. It starts with Chrom then shifts the focus to Robin and sometimes Lucina but majority of the story and focus stays on Robin.

 

[Hong]

What do you guys think of Robin? Robin is a gender neutral character but could count either way. I've observed Awakening's story and I think people ignore everyone else who isn't Chrom. He falls off the radar past Chapter 12. Have you played Radiant Dawn? Do you remember how the game shifts focus from Micaiah's team to Elincia's and then to Ike's and stays mostly with Ike? That's what happens in Awakening. It starts with Chrom then shifts the focus to Robin and sometimes Lucina but majority of the story and focus stays on Robin.

After Lucina, Robin has always been my most-supported female character. Chrom, Robin and Lucina are definitely the three main characters of Awakening... no way around it. All three of them are the most featured, most written, most impact on the story.

So we get down to Robin's merit as a character. Unlike Marth, Ike or Roy, she is a tome-user. Compared to other magic leads like Celica and Micaiah, she is more recent and popular, and has a little more gameplay potential than Micaiah (a rather luke-warm character). Granted, the player has the option of using swords with their avatar, all story scenes and presentation features the avatar with a tome, only pulling out the sword in a few supports. Not like wielding a sword inherently means a character is too similar to others; the issue has nothing to do with similarity, so much as we could represent the Fire Emblem franchise better than we have. Consequentially, I hope we see a Rescue or Warp staff as an item this time around.

As for why female Robin, well I see it as the better of the two choices out of diversity. From those I StreetPass I see a fair number of both, and according to the 8-4 and Ask Iwata interview, all the key developers have played as both, so I don't think anyone feels one gender should be more important than the other from an iconic standpoint.

 

[Reznor]

In defense of Hawkgirl, many characters start of as sidekicks or partners to characters when they come from a family title only to go into their own solo character (i.e. Nightwing). So it's unfair to dismiss her as a sidekick. She was presented more as a partner similar to Wasp and Ant-Man. Hawkgirl has had her own title (right after Infinite Crisis) and was a strong member of Brad Meltzer's Justice League and that didn't feature Hawkman at all. She is mostly a separate character at this point, at least prior to the New 52.

Back to plausible newcomers. I think Wii Fit Trainer was always plausible, we just didn't know it. The Smash community has this sense of likelihood that is a bit overconfident in its certainty. I think we should have a bit more humility when it comes to possible characters. The whole notion of WTF character relies on the notion that the community knows just about every plausible character in the game. I don't really like the term WTF. ROB and Mr.. Game & Watch are both retro, and Wii Fit Trainer is a good representative of the last generation.

i'm not against Hawkgirl the one i'm strongly against is killer frost

Flash needed a villain and Captain Cold would have been perfect but we got filler frost
no comic book fans like killer frost and she gets in (if any a very small amount most didn't even know who she is)
Captain Cold is over all a better character than killer frost with more backstory and far more important to comics but we get killer frost
killer frost isn't even important now days (she never really was) and only appeared in the new 52 once after her first appearance the book got canceled (that's how bad she is)
we didn't even get Firestorm the hero that fights killer frost (shes not even important to his comics)

she only got in the game because shes a female even killer frost fans know this

 

[Erimir]

A lot of the complaining strikes me as coming from people who have never really had to think about not seeing themselves represented in media.

 

[jaytalks]

A lot of the complaining strikes me as coming from people who have never really had to think about not seeing themselves represented in media.

it's in my sig but: “If you want to make a human being into a monster, deny them, at the cultural level, any reflection of themselves.” - Junot Diaz

 

[IsmaR]

My initial thought, wearing-my-estrogen-on-the-outside-feminism included, is why not? We need more of everything, though. None of this "by equality we mean we get treated better" nonsense should even matter. As long as I can play as Samus, I don't really care if being female is the main reason anyone makes it in.

 

[XenothiumX]

Hmmmm...I don't think that addressing the "lack of female character" problem is solved by simply adding female charaters. I think what the real problem is that the game appeals to the male audience more than the female audience. Violent video games are considered to be games girls stay away from, but smash sets the tone back by making the violence cartoony. So would you suppose more girls play smash by their own choice or because they have a boyfriend or some male inluence? The first time a girl sees the Brawl player select screen she imediatly looks for a character she can connect with, but staring down 36 individual squares can be quite overwhelming for a new player.

I made a list of characters that can be considered "female frendly" for a casual player just starting to play smash:

Mario is the most recognizable character, so he appeals to both genders

Same reason as Mario

Same reason as Mario

If anything Peach applies to girls more than guys


Pokemon are good for both genders. Maybe not so much Lucario...

Kirby is just aborable and pink

Obviously because she is a princess, but the guys like her too.

I consider Link and Sonic to be about right on the line because even though they are meant more for the guys they are well recognized.

A girl will probably branch out to the rest of the characters when she feels more comfortable with the game. the reason I didn't include Samus was because many people don't know that there is a woman inside the suite, although that makes her more appealing to a hardcore female gamer. If there is one character that the girls avoid, it's probably smelly old Ganondorf!!! HAHAHA!!!!

 

[YoshiandToad]

In my experience at least, if a girl is not familiar with a series she will nearly always pick either

a.) a cute character(Yoshi, Pikachu, Kirby, Jigglypuff, Pichu, etc)

b.) one of the princesses.

Now this is for non gamer girls; my sister for example loves playing as Ike. My fiancee doesn't play a lot of Nintendo outside of Mario Kart and Mario party, so she tends to gravitate towards Pikachu if she's going to try a different series.

A majority of the Smash cast are female friendly at least, and like XenothiumX suggests that is probably far more important than adding more females for some sort of status quo. As a big Yoshi fan, I can confirm that girls love the green dinosaur arguably more than they like even Princess Peach.

 

[loganhogan]

Many male gamers pick female characters so the female characters aren't only for female gamers.

 

[3Bismyname]

Many male gamers pick female characters so the female characters aren't only for female gamers.

agreed. hell Peach is my secondary. gender means little in the long run for me at least.

 

[loganhogan]

I just want to set it out there I don't support adding female characters for the sake of being female lol. I do however support characters I like and some of them are female but I like them for their character and not for their gender. I think we should consider what each character means significantly to Nintendo and to their own series. For example Falco, he doesn't represent a different series but he is significant to Starfox. This is where several female characters benefit from this time around. Most of the prominent series are represented with their mascot characters like Mario, Villager, Fox, Trainers, and so on.

So now the second more important characters have a better opportunity to make it like previous secondary characters like Falco did. Several of the second important or iconic characters for these series are female like Palutena, Dixie Kong, Anna, Mona. There are also some primary characters that are female that have their own series or are title characters like Wii Fit Trainer, Style Savvy girl, Barbara the Bat, and Robin although Robin is a gender neutral option. Now that competition in general is among more secondary characters and a few other primary characters it is possible that some of these newcomers could be female characters.

 

[FreshlyBakedCookies]

So now the second more important characters have a better opportunity to make it like previous secondary characters like Falco did. Several of the second important or iconic characters for these series are female like Palutena, Dixie Kong, Anna, Mona. There are also some primary characters that are female that have their own series or are title characters like Wii Fit Trainer, Style Savvy girl, Barbara the Bat, and Robin although Robin is a gender neutral option. Now that competition in general is among more secondary characters and a few other primary characters it is possible that some of these newcomers could be female characters.

Don't forget Krystal. Krystal's important too!

 

[FreshlyBakedCookies]

Bump! LOL!

 

[Arcadenik]

That falls under what I call the "Hawkgirl Rule". If a set of male and female counterparts are equally unknown in the eyes of the public, the female will be chosen. Hawkgirl was chosen over Hawkman in both the Justice League cartoon and Injustice with Hawkman having bit parts.

Before anyone brings up the villager, the male villager was the only one to get a trophy in Brawl and features in the advertising of AC a lot.

I think this applies to Wii Fit Trainer to a tee. I believe Wii Fit has the option of selecting a male trainer or a female trainer to be your guide... but Sakurai picked the female trainer to represent the Wii Fit series in SSB4.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Without meaning to sound like a rude, sexist stereotyping individual; I don't know a single guy who bought Wii Fit. I'm guessing the majority of the target audience were women, and thus Wii Fit Trainer being female would make a lot more sense than the male one.

To clarify of the 16 people I know that have a Wii, 14 are male. The only two girls I know both bought Wii Fit, so I'm dealing with a very limited case study here.

If you're a dude and you bought the game though, feel free to correct me.

 

[N3ON]

Bump! LOL!

No need to bump if you have nothing to add.

Without meaning to sound like a rude, sexist stereotyping individual; I don't know a single guy who bought Wii Fit. I'm guessing the majority of the target audience were women, and thus Wii Fit Trainer being female would make a lot more sense than the male one.

To clarify of the 16 people I know that have a Wii, 14 are male. The only two girls I know both bought Wii Fit, so I'm dealing with a very limited case study here.

If you're a dude and you bought the game though, feel free to correct me.

I know a guy who bought Wii Fit. Though he was an adult, part of the casual Wii crowd who also had Wii Play and that kind of stuff, and didn't dabble in many actual games that were targeted at the gamer demographic.

But then I again I only know three people who bought Wii Fit, and the other two were female. All were adults as well.

Clearly "our type" (actual gamers) weren't the target for it, but I don't really see the point of your post. WFT obviously wasn't added due to demand or anything, we're not her audience.

 

[YoshiandToad]

No need to bump if you have nothing to add.

I know a guy who bought Wii Fit. Though he was an adult, part of the casual Wii crowd who also had Wii Play and that kind of stuff, and didn't dabble in many actual games that were targeted at the gamer demographic.

But then I again I only know three people who bought Wii Fit, and the other two were female. All were adults as well.

Clearly "our type" (actual gamers) weren't the target for it, but I don't really see the point of your post. WFT obviously wasn't added due to demand or anything, we're not her audience.

My point was mostly to try and work out why out the two trainers, the female was picked. I'm trying to work out if the target audience may have been a factor.

But no, I guess there's not much cross over between gamers and fitness fanatics really, so chances are probably not. Although with that logic I guess it's surprising Wii Fit did as well as it did.

 

[Oniric Spriter]

I don't care about gender when it comes to bring them to Smash Bros. If female characters were as awesome and relevant as Palutena or Samus are I'm definetly happy if they decide to bring them to the roster.

But I'm not wanting a female character like Krystal over Wolf or Dixie over King K. Rool just for the sake of being female, that's just stupid.

 

[jaytalks]

It's probably because of the female Wii Fit Trainer has a better design.

The male comes off terribly generic. But a little bit of Sakurai magic and the female WFT fits right into smash:

Spoiler

I do think there was a bonus in that she also bolsters the female roster.

 

[N3ON]

My point was mostly to try and work out why out the two trainers, the female was picked. I'm trying to work out if the target audience may have been a factor.

But no, I guess there's not much cross over between gamers and fitness fanatics really, so chances are probably not. Although with that logic I guess it's surprising Wii Fit did as well as it did.

Honestly I think while Wii Fit's target audience was probably female as much if not more than male, the female trainer was the one picked for Smash at least in part because she was female. Sakurai isn't going to choose a character simply because they're female, but if the characters in question have a male and female version, and the versions are both equally important, popular, well-known, and would work the same way, he'd probably go with the female choice just for the sake of diversity. He did say he'd be happy to include female characters given the chance.

Though I suspect WFT is female also in part due to being more logical for moves that require a large amount of flexibility, etc.

 

[XenothiumX]

The console that most women play on is the Wii by far. In fact women are the "primary players" of the Wii.

 

[Shorts]

Smash needs more girls, because people want it. I mean, a normal person would find that statement pretty.. understandable.

it would be cool to play as more girls. I mean, it's not like Bi Daisy, and Candy Kong are our only choices.

 

[Frostwraith]

I, for one, couldn't give a **** whether or not the characters are male, female or genderless.

The reason that majority of the roster doesn't have females is because most females in Nintendo games aren't that prominent. What some would call an unfortunate coincidence, but being female shouldn't be a reason for a character to be in. There are more factors than that.

The only female characters I think as likely are Dixie Kong and Palutena, due to being important and popular characters. They also have lots of room for unique movesets and have a ton of stuff they could draw from their original games.

 

[loganhogan]

Smash needs more girls, because people want it. I mean, a normal person would find that statement pretty.. understandable.

it would be cool to play as more girls. I mean, it's not like Bi Daisy, and Candy Kong are our only choices.

lol bi Daisy

 

[Admiral Pit]

Variety is a good thing, so a few more females would be a good thing, but hopefully they're unique. Of course Palutena would be a great choice <3... but for the sake of greater variety, not just a few more females should be added, but although this isn't the topic for it, add some villains too.

 

[Shorts]

I'm not changing it.

Bi Daisy is my favorite.