Smash 4 Social Thread 3.0

[praline]

Aww yeah Pokemon ORAS demo.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Yeah Metal Sonic rocks in comparison

 

[Bedoop]

Plus, Dr. Mario actually has a move that's different from the original. All hail the alpha clone

A move?
He has more than 3! :V

 

[Knuckles the Knuckles]

Would it be cheating if I said Metal Sonic was the better choice? Since we're talking evil counterparts and whatnot.

I do like Dark Pit as a character, but visually, he's not that interesting, being a literal recolor and all.

These kind of characters are kind of interesting to discuss. Not just in Smash, but in general. I wonder why I like some of them, but dislike others a lot.

Eh, Metal Sonic would be something different I feel. Kinda like Dark Link, hes an evil manufactured clone that appears once or twice before he dies, and hes mostly mindless and insignificant, easy to replicate when needed. Unlike someone like D.Pit and Shadow who are true reccuring rivals of the main character with theyr own personalities, often the opposite of the character they are a rival of.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Dr. Mario has an entire series featuring him that has lasted over 20 years.

Lucina and Dark Pit have only appeared in one game besides Smash.

Dark Pit was in Brawl by default(and if Dark Pit is the only newcomer to not have a "Newcomer" piece added to his character page, then he actually views Brawl as his debut) and Uprising. That's like saying that Dr. Mario's first appearance in the TV show doesn't count because he wasn't named directly. Lucina had one game period. I admit the Brawl point is debatable, but it is his original appearance character design-wise. Not personality, though.

 

[D-idara]

Don't worry D-i', you'll see Ridley tomorrow during the Direct.
UnlessSakuraiTrollsAgainThenIHaveNoWords

Yeah, as a stage boss.

Duck Hunt was just confirmed by the PotD to get a trailer. That means Bowser Jr. probably will too. I would love it if Dark Pit got one that showed his actual Caption, as Palutena's trailer really doesn't count for him. He was not a real Veteran at all.

Dr. Mario is extremely memorable. He has his own game series, for cripes' sake. He's even more recognizable to a lot of fans than Lucina and Dark Pit, who had a tiny slew of appearances beforehand.

Dr. Mario was already on the game from the beggining. He's called Mario, I don't suddenly turn into another person with the Dr. thing behind my name because I wear a labcoat. And I don't think Dark Pit deserves more than a spot on the roster, a cameo on a major trailer, AND HIS OWN ****ING UNWARRANTED VICTORY THEME.

A move?
He has more than 3! :V

Including an UpB and a SideB that have the added advantage of sucking

 

[Substitution]

I do like Dark Pit as a character, but visually, he's not that interesting, being a literal recolor and all.

I'll admit, I'm not angry with Dark Pit getting in but I did want more. There's a lot they could have done with him. Maybe use some of the other weapons such as Blades or Palms, or powers like Land Mine. They didn't have to keep him as just a clone of Pit.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Since Dark Pit is already on the site I don't think he's getting one

I'm still hoping Bowser Jr gets all the koopalings in the trailer

I doubt him being on the site matters. Him showing up in Palutena's trailer despite not being revealed as playable in any way at the time might be good enough since he "appeared".

 

[Muster]

KH2 Sora is best Sora. Everyone knows that.

Everyone who doesn't is in denial. ¦D

Yissssss.
Best part of KH3d was playing as KH2 sora in the credits

You should be thanking me for supporting more female involvement in Smash! Before 1920, women weren't allowed to vote. It's not sexist, the proper term is R-E-S-P-E-C-T

American history =/= smash bros.
What you originally said was that Lucina brought more to the table than the other clones, but it is agreed that Dr. Mario is the most robust and unique of the clones, as well as only delectably being the same mario that we see in the rest of the smash bros games.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Dr. Mario was already on the game from the beggining. He's called Mario, I don't suddenly turn into another person with the Dr. thing behind my name because I wear a labcoat. And I don't think Dark Pit deserves more than a spot on the roster, a cameo on a major trailer, AND HIS OWN ****ING UNWARRANTED VICTORY THEME.

Nope, Dr. Mario was not on the roster. Not till he gets his own slot. He has a craptastic moveset as a costume and yet an extremely different one with highly unique properties(moreso than Melee) and entirely different moves. Dark Pit only managed to get a different Final Smash, a clone of one no less.

Mario only put on a labcoat in the TV show. This never once happened in the games, and Miyamoto directly said he does not consider Mario able to be a doctor. Meaning he actually considers them different people. It's kind of amazing how they never once have been in a game together as a costume swap in any final version. There might be a reason why.

And now to head to work.

 

[Knuckles the Knuckles]

A move?
He has more than 3! :V

I don even know what youre saying here

 

[DraginHikari]

It's still a trailer for a dog. Nothing really that special, moving along, the only thing he has going for him would be that a lot of older gamers hate him, at least the newer generations can hate him for different reasons now.

Simply being a dog isn't a particularly compelling argument against him.

It's not what form a character takes but rather how the character is used and how the character plays which so far in my view has been quite welcoming. Yes, it's just a dog and a duck, but you can gauge their personalities and behavior on how they play and since they do play well in addition to being enjoyable, I can accept Duck Hunt as legitimate as any other character.

 

[Knight Dude]

I'll admit, I'm not angry with Dark Pit getting in but I did want more. There's a lot they could have done with him. Maybe use some of the other weapons such as Blades or Palms, or powers like Land Mine. They didn't have to keep him as just a clone of Pit.

The whole reason he was added was that they had little time left. Trying make him completely unique would be pointless, as they could have made literally anyone else take up that time. Granted, said time could have been made for gameplay adjustments or something, but what's done is done.

Can't say I'm all that mad about the clones. I actually like Doc Mario and even if the other two weren't in, it's not like we would have gotten fully unique characters out of it.

 

[D-idara]

Can I disagree?
Because I will.
By your logic, Dr. Mario being Mario is bad to the roster.
Ergo, Sheik and Zero Suit Samus are roster waste as well. Because you know, it's Zelda and Samus each taking two slots in the roster.

I wouldn't drop Zero Suit Samus because I love the Metroid series, but she's still Samus and that makes her a little less deserving, but I'd definitely drop Sheik for Impa, seeing as Sheik's as unimportant as they get, and I'd drop Dr. Mario for one, but simply not having him would make me happy, especially because all of the attention would be on the Mario that deserves it. The REAL Super Mario.

On another note, I really like Metal Sonic, and he has a much more complex personality than your usual Dark Pit/Sasuke Uchiha/Shadow The Hedgehog, since he's actually tormented by the fact that he's a clone. Shadow's also pretty cool because of his backstory.

A move?
He has more than 3! :V

Yeah, his UpB and SideB have the added bonus of sucking

Simply being a dog isn't a particularly compelling argument against him.

It's not what form a character takes but rather how the character is used and how the character plays which so far in my view has been quite welcoming. Yes, it's just a dog and a duck, but you can gauge their personalities and behavior on how they play and since they do play well in addition to being enjoyable, I can accept Duck Hunt as legitimate as any other character.

Pac-Man already does the old-cartoon charm much better and he's actually a memorable character from a good, timeless game, and I've said this again and again, but I don't really care about the gameplay aspects of a Smash Brothers character, for me, they could be most interesting gameplay-wise, but if I don't care about them as characters, they're a waste of a slot for me. I like things based on what I WANT to like, not what I happen to like.

 

[Frostwraith]

Plus, Dr. Mario actually has a move that's different from the original. All hail the alpha clone

Well, Dark Pit does have a different Final Smash.

Dr. Mario has a different down aerial too.

Would it be cheating if I said Metal Sonic was the better choice? Since we're talking evil counterparts and whatnot.

I do like Dark Pit as a character, but visually, he's not that interesting, being a literal recolor and all.

These kind of characters are kind of interesting to discuss. Not just in Smash, but in general. I wonder why I like some of them, but dislike others a lot.

Metal Sonic plays the evil twin/counterpart trope much accurately than Shadow.

Dark Pit is a subversion of the evil twin trope. You expect him to be just another evil twin when he pops out of the Mirror of Truth but he becomes an anti-hero and a rival to Pit with no affiliations whatsoever.

By the end of the game, he becomes one of Pit's closest allies.

Dark Pit was in Brawl by default(and if Dark Pit is the only newcomer to not have a "Newcomer" piece added to his character page, then he actually views Brawl as his debut) and Uprising. That's like saying that Dr. Mario's first appearance in the TV show doesn't count because he wasn't named directly. Lucina had one game period. I admit the Brawl point is debatable, but it is his original appearance character design-wise. Not personality, though.

Even so, there are some differences between Pit's black color swap in Brawl and Dark Pit himself.

Dark Pit in Smash 4 is the character from Uprising. All the details match: appearance (red eyes, golden ornaments), personality (more aggressive and cocky) and voice (deeper than Pit's).

Pit's black color in Brawl =/= Dark Pit

Dark Pit may have been inspired by that palette swap, but by that logic, you could say anything inspired on a previous work is the same thing as the inspiration.

I'll admit, I'm not angry with Dark Pit getting in but I did want more. There's a lot they could have done with him. Maybe use some of the other weapons such as Blades or Palms, or powers like Land Mine. They didn't have to keep him as just a clone of Pit.

It was either him as an alt for Pit or as a clone.

They only had little time remaining.

Yeah, as a stage boss.

Dr. Mario was already on the game from the beggining. He's called Mario, I don't suddenly turn into another person with the Dr. thing behind my name because I wear a labcoat. And I don't think Dark Pit deserves more than a spot on the roster, a cameo on a major trailer, AND HIS OWN ****ING UNWARRANTED VICTORY THEME.

Umm... Does Samus become a different person when taking out her Power Suit?

Does Zelda become a different person when wearing a ninja-esque outfit and passes as a man?

Does Rosalina deserve her own victory theme? Does Bowser? Does Meta Knight?

Your bias is real.

 

[Knuckles the Knuckles]

Eh, Metal Sonic would be something different I feel. Kinda like Dark Link, hes an evil manufactured clone that appears once or twice before he dies, and hes mostly mindless and insignificant, easy to replicate when needed. Unlike someone like D.Pit and Shadow who are true reccuring rivals of the main character with theyr own personalities, often the opposite of the character they are a rival of.

Quoting for new page to not get lost in time and space.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Would it be cheating if I said Metal Sonic was the better choice? Since we're talking evil counterparts and whatnot.

No, you'd just be inaccurate. Let's get one thing straight here, folks:

Shadow = Dark Sonic
Metal Sonic = Evil Robot Sonic

Dark and evil are not necessarily the same thing. Even in SA2, Shadow wasn't evil. Just angsty and driven by a misunderstanding due to memory loss. Once he remembered things correctly, he heel-face turned very quickly.

Metal Sonic is a cold-hearted killer through and through and will stop at nothing to get rid of Sonic and anyone else either in his way or that he feels is a threat or a nuisance at the time. Orders or not.

For an example of an actual living Evil Sonic, see Scourge the Hedgehog from the Archie comics prior to the #251 reboot. He was easily one of the best things about the comic since he went from being "just" an evil Sonic to becoming something much more as well as the ultimate wild card in any situation he was involved in. Plus, he was quite literally Sonic at his full potential in terms of abilities and a physical embodiment of everything Sonic could, and still can, become if something goes wrong due to Sonic's nature of being more of a Neutral/Neutral Good than a Lawful Good one, which Scourge had no problem reminding him of.

And even though he wouldn't admit he was right back then, much later down the road closer to when the new universe happened, said fact occurred to him again.

But getting back to Shadow and Dark Pit, we've had this talk before (particularly @ Frostwraith ) Shadow in SA2, Heroes and Sonic Battle was Shadow done right. Everything after that? Ugh. Let's just not talk about it.

Dark Pit basically is Shadow done right with a bit more liveliness thrown in. The comics actually get Shadow spot on personality wise with that was well. Meanwhile, Metal Sonic still destroys and kills because that is his function.

So yeah, differences and all that.

 

[Bedoop]

Umm... Does Samus become a different person when taking out her Power Suit?

Does Zelda become a different person when wearing a ninja-esque outfit and passes as a man?

Does Rosalina deserve her own victory theme? Does Bowser? Does Meta Knight?

Your bias is real.

I'm sorry if this sounds rude @ D-idara but
GIT WREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEKT

 

[Blargg888]

I'm sorry if this sounds rude @ D-idara but
GIT WREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEKT

It doesn't sound rude...

because it is.

 

[D-idara]

Well, Dark Pit does have a different Final Smash.
Umm... Does Samus become a different person when taking out her Power Suit?

Does Zelda become a different person when wearing a ninja-esque outfit and passes as a man?

Does Rosalina deserve her own victory theme? Does Bowser? Does Meta Knight?

Your bias is real.

I don't think I've ever hidden my hate for ZSS being considered a second Metroid rep, or Sheik being considered a different Zelda rep, I don't think ZSS should get her own slot, maybe make her and Samus' slot be a shared one but without changing, and Sheik should be dropped entirely and replaced with Impa.

The antihero becoming good at the end's almost as cliched as the rest, but anyway.
I might be a little biased, but if he was so low-effort, why does he get his own Victory Theme? It's like they're trying to say he has some importance to the Kid Icarus series over characters that actually made an impact like Hades, Viridi, Medusa, hell, even Magnus.

And everyone's allowed a little bias, sometimes more than a little bias, as shown with our good friend Sakurai.

Hell, I would pull out Dr. Mario's fingernails myself because of how much I hate him and I still think he deserved a unique Victory Theme way more than Dark Pit, at least he's much more thematically different than the rest of the Mario cast, maybe the last few seconds of the 'Fever' theme chorus.

Also, if that's true, Dr. Mario's origins are some M. Night Shaymalan stuff, it's actually a little weird how we're seeing Tanooki Mario and Metal Mario on Mario Kart before ever seeing Dr. Mario, to tell the truth, I mean, he doesn't deserve anything more than his own games because of how irrelevant he is, but it IS weird.

 

[RamOne]

Not this again...

 

[Knuckles the Knuckles]

The thing about Metal Sonic is that its just a mashine, one you can make multiples of, its not really a "character", more like an enemy unit, modeled after Sonic. Its not actually an evil counterpart or a rival, its an enemy, whos only function is to defeat his target.

Again, similarly to Dark Link.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

The thing about Metal Sonic is that its just a mashine, one you can make multiples of, its not really a "character", more like an enemy unit, modeled after Sonic. Its not actually an evil counterpart or a rival, its an enemy, whos only function is to defeat his target.

Again, similarly to Dark Link.

Again, this is wrong. It's true that Metal Sonic is a machine, but he is very much his own character with his own personality. There's a reason he always betrays Eggman whenever he finds him to be inadequate only to come back to him later.

Think of Metal Sonic being the same as Bass. They're loyal to their masters as long as they don't find them to be a hindrance and will do what they were made to do, but they have their own reasons and goals for accomplishing said tasks and will often add additional tasks to their schedule and agenda to benefit them further.

 

[D-idara]

The thing about Metal Sonic is that its just a mashine, one you can make multiples of, its not really a "character", more like an enemy unit, modeled after Sonic. Its not actually an evil counterpart or a rival, its an enemy, whos only function is to defeat his target.

Again, similarly to Dark Link.

Metal Sonic's better than Dark Pit, it's simple, really...come to think about it, couldn't you actually make endless Dark Pits with another mirror of truth? But anyway, Metal Sonic's a clone with like 5 epic main theme while Dark Pit only has 1 epic theme, rekt right there...

...boy, I really want Never Let It Go as music for Windy Hill...

Not this again...

Hey, I said the Doc deserves his own victory theme, it's a start.

 

[Knight Dude]

The thing about Metal Sonic is that its just a mashine, one you can make multiples of, its not really a "character", more like an enemy unit, modeled after Sonic. Its not actually an evil counterpart or a rival, its an enemy, whos only function is to defeat his target.

Again, similarly to Dark Link.

I think they gave him an actual personality in Sonic Heroes or something. Usually he screws over Eggman to get what he wants.

Again, this is wrong. It's true that Metal Sonic is a machine, but he is very much his own character with his own personality. There's a reason he always betrays Eggman whenever he finds him to be inadequate only to come back to him later.

Think of Metal Sonic being the same as Bass. They're loyal to their masters as long as they don't find them to be a hindrance and will do what they were made to do, but they have their own reasons and goals for accomplishing said tasks and will often add additional tasks to their schedule and agenda to benefit them further.

Well, you said it better than I could. Bass and Metal Sonic should be bros or something. Didn't they team up in the Mega Man/Sonic Comics?

 

[Substitution]

It was either him as an alt for Pit or as a clone.

They only had little time remaining.

The whole reason he was added was that they had little time left. Trying make him completely unique would be pointless, as they could have made literally anyone else take up that time. Granted, said time could have been made for gameplay adjustments or something, but what's done is done.

Can't say I'm all that mad about the clones. I actually like Doc Mario and even if the other two weren't in, it's not like we would have gotten fully unique characters out of it.

I understand that, and most likely at this point I'm spouting nonsense. But if by some chance he gets into the next iteration, I do hope that they de-clone him.

 

[Knuckles the Knuckles]

Again, this is wrong. It's true that Metal Sonic is a machine, but he is very much his own character with his own personality. There's a reason he always betrays Eggman whenever he finds him to be inadequate only to come back to him later.

Think of Metal Sonic being the same as Bass. They're loyal to their masters as long as they don't find them to be a hindrance and will do what they were made to do, but they have their own reasons and goals for accomplishing said tasks and will often add additional tasks to their schedule and agenda to benefit them further.

Im only familiar with Metal Sonic from the games, so I'l be sticking with that. Then again, I think he did get a bigger role in Sonic Heroe's if memory serves right so eh.

Comparing him to Bass seems like the most accurate description, though Bass initially WAS supposed to be Dark Megaman.

 

[Kenith]

So apparently Bowser Jr. and DHD's reveal trailers will be in the livestream tomorrow. What a horrible letdown.

 

[Bedoop]

Hell, I would pull out Dr. Mario's fingernails myself because of how much I hate him and I still think he deserved a unique Victory Theme way more than Dark Pit, at least he's much more thematically different than the rest of the Mario cast, maybe the last few seconds of the 'Fever' theme chorus.

Also, if that's true, Dr. Mario's origins are some M. Night Shaymalan stuff, it's actually a little weird how we're seeing Tanooki Mario and Metal Mario on Mario Kart before ever seeing Dr. Mario, to tell the truth, I mean, he doesn't deserve anything more than his own games because of how irrelevant he is, but it IS weird.

@ D-idara has a secret soft spot for
I SHIP IT
10/10 WOULD WRITE FANFIC

 

[RamOne]

So apparently Bowser Jr. and DHD's reveal trailers will be in the livestream tomorrow. What a horrible letdown.

Well, expecting more was setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

[Frostwraith]

I don't think I've ever hidden my hate for ZSS being considered a second Metroid rep, or Sheik being considered a different Zelda rep, I don't think ZSS should get her own slot, maybe make her and Samus' slot be a shared one but without changing, and Sheik should be dropped entirely and replaced with Impa.

The antihero becoming good at the end's almost as cliched as the rest, but anyway.
I might be a little biased, but if he was so low-effort, why does he get his own Victory Theme? It's like they're trying to say he has some importance to the Kid Icarus series over characters that actually made an impact like Hades, Viridi, Medusa, hell, even Magnus.

And everyone's allowed a little bias, sometimes more than a little bias, as shown with our good friend Sakurai.

Hell, I would pull out Dr. Mario's fingernails myself because of how much I hate him and I still think he deserved a unique Victory Theme way more than Dark Pit, at least he's much more thematically different than the rest of the Mario cast, maybe the last few seconds of the 'Fever' theme chorus.

Also, if that's true, Dr. Mario's origins are some M. Night Shaymalan stuff, it's actually a little weird how we're seeing Tanooki Mario and Metal Mario on Mario Kart before ever seeing Dr. Mario, to tell the truth, I mean, he doesn't deserve anything more than his own games because of how irrelevant he is, but it IS weird.

You really do take fictional characters way too seriously for your own good.

I almost feel sorry for you.

Anyway, Dark Pit has impact on the story:
- He opens the way to the Chaos Vortex. If it weren't for him, Palutena's soul would be lost forever.
- He helps Pit fight the Chaos Kin.
- He saves Pit's life twice.

About his victory theme, producing a short jingle isn't an hard thing to do. Especially when the composer that composed Dark Pit's theme (Motoi Sakuraba) also worked on this game.

If the anti-hero turning good is cliché'd, so is the hot-blooded hero (Pit), so is the tsundere (Viridi), so is the comical hammy villain (Hades). Character archetypes. Ever heard of them? Learn a thing or two about storytelling, then we'll talk.

As for the rest, it's all subjective. It's all YOUR opinion, so don't pass it as fact. It's really insulting.

 

[Knuckles the Knuckles]

So apparently Bowser Jr. and DHD's reveal trailers will be in the livestream tomorrow. What a horrible letdown.

Dont be dissin DHD now. We finally get to see him in HD! Thats hype as heck!

 

[DraginHikari]

So apparently Bowser Jr. and DHD's reveal trailers will be in the livestream tomorrow. What a horrible letdown.

Letdown how? I don't understand this I guess, were people really expecting Wii U exclusive character to be happening even though at this point there is nothing to suggest such a thing was going to happen?

 

[Blargg888]

So apparently Bowser Jr. and DHD's reveal trailers will be in the livestream tomorrow. What a horrible letdown.

Letdown? How is that a letdown?

 

[Pega-pony Princess]

So apparently Bowser Jr. and DHD's reveal trailers will be in the livestream tomorrow. What a horrible letdown.

Oh come now, KTG. It isn't that bad. Based on the pic of DHD's trailer, it's gonna be somewhat interesting. Besides, there's no doubt Sakurai will have something up his selves for tomorrow.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Well, you said it better than I could. Bass and Metal Sonic should be bros or something. Didn't they team up in the Mega Man/Sonic Comics?

Yes they did, as a matter of fact. They're the ones who jumped and knocked out all of Sonic's friends and had them turned into the Roboticized Masters.

Also, the fight of Sonic and Mega Man vs Metal Sonic and Bass was freaking awesome. Especially the off-panels for it.

Im only familiar with Metal Sonic from the games, so I'l be sticking with that. Then again, I think he did get a bigger role in Sonic Heroe's if memory serves right so eh.

Comparing him to Bass seems like the most accurate description, though Bass initially WAS supposed to be Dark Megaman.

Think of Sonic CD. Eggman built Metal Sonic solely to beat Sonic and not to do anything else. So what's the first thing Metal Sonic does?

Kidnaps Amy and takes off for some reason. Later on, he uses her as a means to get Sonic to fight against him. In side games later, whether you consider them "canon" or not, Metal Sonic always shows up on his own out of nowhere to challenge Sonic to the silliest of things from kart racing to olympic sports even though he doesn't have to.

Oh, and then you have Sonic Heroes where he betrays Eggman and the Sonic Rivals games where he kinda ditches Eggman's orders to tag-team with Shadow because reasons. ¦D

 

[Kenith]

Letdown how? I don't understand this I guess, were people really expecting Wii U exclusive character to be happening even though at this point there is nothing to suggest such a thing was going to happen?

What? "Wii U exclusive characters"? Why does everyone keep saying that? I didn't think that was going to happen.

 

[RamOne]

What? "Wii U exclusive characters"? Why does everyone keep saying that? I didn't think that was going to happen.

But if you didn't expect Wii U exclusive characters, what did you expect instead?

 

[DraginHikari]

What? "Wii U exclusive characters"? Why does everyone keep saying that? I didn't think that was going to happen.

Then I understand less the let down even less if the trailers for DHD and Bowser Jr are one part of tomorrow events.

 

[Knight Dude]

So apparently Bowser Jr. and DHD's reveal trailers will be in the livestream tomorrow. What a horrible letdown.

Do we even know for a fact that Bowser Jr is getting a trailer too? I don't think it was confirmed yet. Though honestly, I wasn't expecting much in terms of characters. If we do get DLC at some point, it'll likely be a few months later. Think along the line of Mario Kart 8.

Yes they did, as a matter of fact. They're the ones who jumped and knocked out all of Sonic's friends and had them turned into the Roboticized Masters.

Also, the fight of Sonic and Mega Man vs Metal Sonic and Bass was freaking awesome. Especially the off-panels for it.

That punch. Bass doesn't give a damn. This ***** just shows up and decks him.