Smash 4 Evo 2015 Ruleset Updated: Customs On!

Cedy

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
34
NNID
Cedyism
I think putting Smash 4 to 2 stock isn't really a good idea. I understand it's new and similar to brawl, but it forces the players to be even more defensive.
 

CamJamSlamMan

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 31, 2015
Messages
11
NNID
Cam_TriforceMan
3DS FC
4811-6936-8465
Well, I'm really interested to see where this goes; it'll be interesting to see what creative strategies people could come up with using the customs.
Though I hope they're only allowing custom moves and not equipment.
 

ItsRainingGravy

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
762
Location
Alabama
Switch FC
SW-5960-2538-9300
Well, I'm really interested to see where this goes; it'll be interesting to see what creative strategies people could come up with using the customs.
Though I hope they're only allowing custom moves and not equipment.
Your last sentence is correct.

Custom Equipment is banned. Custom Moves are not.
 

Claire Diviner

President
Joined
Oct 16, 2010
Messages
7,493
Location
Indian Orchard, MA
NNID
ClaireDiviner
July 17-19, 2015: The weekend the Smash Wii U metagame was cast into bedlam, potentially embarking on an unprecedented frontier. Yeah, I can dig it.
 

ICXCM

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 8, 2014
Messages
63
I am very excited for Evo now. The commentary is going to be next level, so many moves to know.
 

<Green>

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 22, 2015
Messages
23
Location
New Jersey
NNID
CrabbyGuy
I love that custom moves are legal. It could open up entirely new play styles for all characters. I just hate ow long they take to unlock.
 

Sunstar

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
Messages
96
Location
Germany, NRW, Wessum
Wouldn't it take to much time for everybody to customize one or two characters for him- or herself?
I like the idea of custom moves. But on a tournament... I don't know...
 

B.A.M.

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
1,538
Location
Fullerton, CA
NNID
Bambatta
You're right that Smash 4 is well balanced. Customs on further balances it.

There are NO broken customs. None.
yeah of course. its not like Mario's fire punch gives him access to a multitude of practical zero to death setups and early kill true combos. ohh waitttttt
 

B.A.M.

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
1,538
Location
Fullerton, CA
NNID
Bambatta
Customs are on means that either Ganondorf, Link or Ike will win EVO.

Also, my question to you Melee competitive ****s is...
How in the ever living hell did you decide banning Wobbling at 300% was a good idea!?

At 150%, it'd be more reasonable, but 300% damage, really!? The IC characters can already KO at 150% with a single F-Smash after throw, so why 300%!? Why not go lower than that at at least 100%? That'd make the damn game fair.

yeah Kurado basically answered your statement. learn a little more about the competitive environment before you bad mouth it; it just makes you look like an idiot and damn pretentious. Theres no reason to be bad mouthing melee. or any game in this series. So just stop. Thats great you are filled with passion but gain a little knowledge before you start spilling it here.
 
Last edited:

Ur2Slow

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 17, 2013
Messages
54
Location
United States
NNID
Sponger64
Wouldn't it take to much time for everybody to customize one or two characters for him- or herself?
I like the idea of custom moves. But on a tournament... I don't know...
I think they might be doing custom moves like this: you have to put your movesets for characters on a 3ds and basically transfer them before the match. I highly doubt they'd allow people to waste time making a moveset live.
 

warriorman222

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
983
Location
Meanwhile in Canada...
3DS FC
3866-8698-4754
yeah of course. its not like Mario's fire punch gives him access to a multitude of practical zero to death setups and early kill true combos. ohh waitttttt
Oh waiit: they're not 0-deaths! They're escapable chaarcter-exclusive strings!

And landing that thing outside of extreme, avoidable setups is not gonna happen. Stop.
 

First2Bomb

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
76
Adding customs is a huge mistake. I know that there's the custom moves project (or whatever it was called), so having all the set ups with all of the custom moves won't be a problem. But what about in people's homes or on their own Wii U's? There's still no easy way to unlock all the custom moves on your own Wii U without hours of grinding. This is not something as simple as unlocking unlockable characters. This is going to make practicing with customs very difficult.

Because it's not as simple as practicing with your main(s) customs on, you're also going to have to have the customs for all the other characters unlocked as well. Otherwise, how else are you going to prepare for your possible opponents at the tournament? And then what if you want to practice at a friend's house or whatever? How would that happen if they don't have customs unlocked? Not everyone can afford a 3DS and could just transfer over the customs. It just doesn't seem practical to me and would give an unfair advantage to the players that have all the customs unlocked, which I would gather is only at most 1% of the community.
 
Last edited:

warriorman222

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
983
Location
Meanwhile in Canada...
3DS FC
3866-8698-4754
Adding customs is a huge mistake. I know that there's the custom moves project (or whatever it was called), so having all the set ups with all of the custom moves won't be a problem. But what about in people's homes or on their own Wii U's? There's still no easy way to unlock all the custom moves on your own Wii U without hours of grinding. This is not something as simple as unlocking unlockable characters. This is going to make practicing with customs very difficult.

Because it's not as simple as practicing with your main(s) customs on, you're also going to have to have the customs for all the other characters unlocked as well. Otherwise, how else are you going to prepare for your possible opponents at the tournament? And then what f you want to practice at a friend's house or whatever? How would that happen if they don't have customs unlocked? Not everyone can afford a 3DS and could just transfer over the customs. It just doesn't seem practical to me and would give an unfair advantage to the players that have all the customs unlocked, which I would gather is only at most 1% of the community.
1% of the community? Yeah, no.

You only need customs for your main. You should know what the others do by description alone. if you don't, that's your fault.

Crazy Orders with Fox, Quick Batter, HRB and First Striker equipment can get well beyond 100 turns, beat Maser/Crazy Hand, and get tons of loot. It doesn't take hours.
 

First2Bomb

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
76
1% of the community? Yeah, no.

You only need customs for your main. You should know what the others do by description alone. if you don't, that's your fault.

Crazy Orders with Fox, Quick Batter, HRB and First Striker equipment can get well beyond 100 turns, beat Maser/Crazy Hand, and get tons of loot. It doesn't take hours.
I don't know a single person who has all of the customs unlocked and I'd bet very few on this board do either. It's laughable to me that you think that reading a description of how a move works is the same thing as actually playing someone or seeing it in action.
 

It's All Fiction

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 28, 2014
Messages
14
If For Glory mode doesn't allow customs, I'm hesitant to allow them at a tourney since there will be very little understanding of how to deal with/counter said moves. Though I appreciate the added mind games and strategy, I think allowing customs this early in the game's life cycle is too fast...
 

warriorman222

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
983
Location
Meanwhile in Canada...
3DS FC
3866-8698-4754
I don't know a single person who has all of the customs unlocked and I'd bet very few on this board do either. It's laughable to me that you think that reading a description of how a move works is the same thing as actually playing someone or seeing it in action.
Just because you don't know anyone doesn't mean few people do. Almost everyone I know have all customs, but that doesn't mean few people don't.

I don't think learning the move is the same as seeing it in action. I never said that at all. I said that you could learn what the move does by description.

The reason I brought up learning what it does, is because they are slight variations of moves. You should figure out how to deal with it in no time. I haven't unlocked all the customs on Wii U(I'm like 10 awayYes on 3DS), but I still know how to deal with each one, here are some random examples of ones that people find OP:

Timber Counter, the tree is useless, so that's good, he can't relaly grab me out of trip because nets sucks, so if i do slip up, i'm fine. I can short hop, and a character with a good air game is fine. Otherwise I can roll. After 15 seconds, I'm fine.

PP: If I'm using anyone other than jigs, I'm fine. Otherwise, DI down and away from them if they dthrow-uthrow, and DI down and away from the stage if PP hits, since vectoring exists but is simply extremely weak. i will go towards the far corner so I live.

Kong Cyclone.Command Grabs(Jumping Inhale=OHKO/near OHKO). The end. Or I can just airdodge. Or hit him when the armor finishes, or if he's on the ground grab him.

Apart from the obvious PP, I have none of these on Wii U, and have put 0 minutes into them. However, each person I fight using these are usually easier than if they were using default.

Look, learning what it does can sometimes be enough to counter it. You don't need to see it in action, but of course it helps far more.

If For Glory mode doesn't allow customs, I'm hesitant to allow them at a tourney since there will be very little understanding of how to deal with/counter said moves. Though I appreciate the added mind games and strategy, I think allowing customs this early in the game's life cycle is too fast...
Then let's ban Battlefield. And Miis. And make sure all matches invlve roll spam and lag. Now it'll be fair for online-only players.

Also it will never be late enough to allow customs, as people will simply get used to not having them on. Keeping them off for much longer will ensure permanent disallowing of customs.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 10, 2015
Messages
40
See this is the problem, instead of saying "Man that's broken or slightly unbalanced" people are saying "Well its broken sure but it looks cool"

I didn't realize we wanted broken hype over balance and consistency
You say that like Sakurai would actually just put these customs in without pain-stakingly going over every last one to make sure they don't break the game...Obviously the Pikmin thing exists, but that's just one and it only works with reflectors. If there are any game-breaking customs, show them off. Get them noticed. If they tip the scales like an elephant being weighed against a mouse, then chances are they're going to be banned. If not, get over it and adapt strats to deal with them.
 
Joined
Feb 10, 2015
Messages
40
Customs are random just like Items you won't know what you're facing against until it's too late.
That comment is too stupid for words I'm sorry. Customs are NOT random. If anything, normals are random. Look at G&W. His Side-B is random. Why don't we ban him, hmm?

The customs are pre-determined and predictable. And I believe that there's a rule that states you must tell your opponent what customs you are using, so you WILL know what you're facing.

So go ahead. Try and convince me that pre-made moves that only affect 4 (potentially) moves out of like 20 compared to having a smash ball appear out of nowhere at a random time, with occasional bias on when it breaks or gets dropped from a character.
 
Joined
Feb 10, 2015
Messages
40
Because, Melee elitist, Smash 4 improved on what Brawl failed gameplay-wise.

Not everything revolves around Melee
^^^^^^^^^^^ This. This. Everything about this. I cannot possibly put into words how much this. This is the SMASH community, not the Melee community. We have 3 other games (4 if you count 3DS separate) so don't put all the focus on just one of them.
 
Joined
Feb 10, 2015
Messages
40
Terrible just terrible details you have provided for me towards why Smash-4 should even grace Evo presence. I'm just going to assume and take an educated guess that a lot of people play Smash-4 so Evo is taking advantage of it, by allowing the game just so they can get wealth from it. That's the only reason I can think off but yyeah sure it's faster and better. Mhm and Obama is a good president. Thanks.
Dude, piss off. We've got UMvC3 coming back for what? The 3rd time in a row now? Street Fighter is back. Melee is back. It's nice to see a fresh set of games enter this year like Smash 4, MKX, and Guilty Gear Xrd. We can have our classics and still allow fresh blood to enter, so get off your damn high horse.
 

warriorman222

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
983
Location
Meanwhile in Canada...
3DS FC
3866-8698-4754
@ Shawn Michael Slaughter Shawn Michael Slaughter Dude, Quadruple posting? Really? There's an edit button. Otherwise everything you said was right.

So I haven't expressed my opinion, but I think it's time for customs to get a chance. Screw all the TOs following Apex like sheep. We need customs to get real exposure!
 

N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣

不自然な不道徳な中空デミ神〜
Joined
Mar 29, 2012
Messages
3,123
Dude, piss off. We've got UMvC3 coming back for what? The 3rd time in a row now? Street Fighter is back. Melee is back. It's nice to see a fresh set of games enter this year like Smash 4, MKX, and Guilty Gear Xrd. We can have our classics and still allow fresh blood to enter, so get off your damn high horse.
I have no idea what you're ranting about but, I'll assume it's useless to understand. Thanks.
 

ansossy

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
115
That comment is too stupid for words I'm sorry. Customs are NOT random. If anything, normals are random. Look at G&W. His Side-B is random. Why don't we ban him, hmm?

The customs are pre-determined and predictable. And I believe that there's a rule that states you must tell your opponent what customs you are using, so you WILL know what you're facing.

So go ahead. Try and convince me that pre-made moves that only affect 4 (potentially) moves out of like 20 compared to having a smash ball appear out of nowhere at a random time, with occasional bias on when it breaks or gets dropped from a character.
Customs apply to every character. You missed the point. Customs require too much time to invest into them and waste time if people were to tell each other the customs they had and is just silly overall. Customs are plain stupid. Customs are stupid. Play it normally. Play it like For Glory 2 stock no customs and no miis. I find it surprising that NINTENDO is the more competitively focused while tournaments are still goofing off.
 

ansossy

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
115
I didn't make an argument about customs, my argument was about Lylat as a starter. I didn't bother because the argument against customs has no real merit.
"You have to unlock all of them"
No, YOU don't. This is EVO, not every tournament has to use customs. You just need to unlock all the ones you care about for your mains to practice.
"It adds to the learning time and can beeak the balance"
Since when is a deeper game a BAD thing? Sm4sh kinda needs this niche to bring something new to the table.
"Custom specials randomize-"
No, I've seen this point too much. You can tell them what customs you're using. Easy.
"Customs aren't allowed online"
Because Custom Equipment exists. We're not allowing equipment here, that's a different story.
"Just as Mii fighters aren't"
Part of the reason I'd say customs are allowed. Mii Fighters are legitimate characters, and aren't allowed online so we don't just fight hundreds of penises.
"What gives tournaments the right when online is less competitive"
...? Are you sure you typed that correctly? Regardless, I'll assume you didn't. Tournaments allow it because it increases the game's depth and makes Diddy less dominating.
It's unnecessary learning time just to have 1 or 2 tournaments that allow customs. It's stupid overall. Period. Unlocking customs on every console to host is very very very long and tedious and no one wants to deal with bull**** AI. Telling customs is silly and makes a men's tournaments look like a kid's playground. Grow up. And next online tries to keep things competitively. EVO just cares about stupid spectators. The real people are the ones PLAYING THE GAME. Not the spectators. Mii Fighters aren't legitimate characters either. Importing Miis takes a while and they were banned online because they count as customizations too. Your point is stupid and childish "penises" yeah what a stupid excuse of a life you have. There are characters that are still wayyy better than Diddy Kong look at ZSS, Sheik, Rosalina. There's no excuse to be losing to a diddy other than you suck. With enough practice Diddy Kong players shouldn't be a problem otherwise it's your fault. Games are supposed to be competitive not childish and full of stupidity and randomness that is Customs, Lylat Cruise, Castle Siege, Mii's etc.
 

Zethoro

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 16, 2014
Messages
472
NNID
Zethor
It's unnecessary learning time just to have 1 or 2 tournaments that allow customs. It's stupid overall. Period. Unlocking customs on every console to host is very very very long and tedious and no one wants to deal with bull**** AI. Telling customs is silly and makes a men's tournaments look like a kid's playground. Grow up. And next online tries to keep things competitively. EVO just cares about stupid spectators. The real people are the ones PLAYING THE GAME. Not the spectators. Mii Fighters aren't legitimate characters either. Importing Miis takes a while and they were banned online because they count as customizations too. Your point is stupid and childish "penises" yeah what a stupid excuse of a life you have. There are characters that are still wayyy better than Diddy Kong look at ZSS, Sheik, Rosalina. There's no excuse to be losing to a diddy other than you suck. With enough practice Diddy Kong players shouldn't be a problem otherwise it's your fault. Games are supposed to be competitive not childish and full of stupidity and randomness that is Customs, Lylat Cruise, Castle Siege, Mii's etc.
Of course, my life is stupid, that's why you're the one turning a debate into an opportunity to throw insults at others. I lose because I suck? Really? I lose in a competitive game because I have less skill than the opponent? Shocking, I had no idea.
Other than prep time (which does not affect you), Customs have no reason not to be at tournaments. If you want to restate the same points over and over and call it a "debate", fine by me.
 
Last edited:

Illuvial

Exploring Tallon IV
Premium
Joined
Sep 29, 2012
Messages
411
Location
Wilmington, North Carolina
NNID
Illuvial
3DS FC
1435-3676-0317
Switch FC
SW-1736-8649-2292
You say that like Sakurai would actually just put these customs in without pain-stakingly going over every last one to make sure they don't break the game...Obviously the Pikmin thing exists, but that's just one and it only works with reflectors. If there are any game-breaking customs, show them off. Get them noticed. If they tip the scales like an elephant being weighed against a mouse, then chances are they're going to be banned. If not, get over it and adapt strats to deal with them.
I mean... He put Meta Knight it Brawl... He put Pikachu into Smash 64... He nerfed Little Mac when he was already one of the worst characters in the roster for all modes... He put custom equipment into the game and a lot of the high stat builds and abilities they give you are broken as hell... Despite what some believe, items aren't banned SOLELY because they are random, though that is a big part of it, but they are still put into Smash

That's a horrible excuse, stop that right now. I mean ****, Capcom put Akuma into Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD Remix and didn't try balancing him even though we all know that he's so good that he's banned in SF2 tourneys. Same thing goes for Gill in Third Strike Online Edition

Things are put into games for the sake of them being fun, not balance. This goes doubley for Smash. Yeah sure he doesn't design anything with the intent of them not being balanced for high level play, but that doesn't mean that everything he does ends up being balanced for tournament level play.
 

warriorman222

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
983
Location
Meanwhile in Canada...
3DS FC
3866-8698-4754
I mean... He put Meta Knight it Brawl... He put Pikachu into Smash 64... He nerfed Little Mac when he was already one of the worst characters in the roster for all modes... He put custom equipment into the game and a lot of the high stat builds and abilities they give you are broken as hell... Despite what some believe, items aren't banned SOLELY because they are random, though that is a big part of it, but they are still put into Smash

That's a horrible excuse, stop that right now. I mean ****, Capcom put Akuma into Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD Remix and didn't try balancing him even though we all know that he's so good that he's banned in SF2 tourneys. Same thing goes for Gill in Third Strike Online Edition

Things are put into games for the sake of them being fun, not balance. This goes doubley for Smash. Yeah sure he doesn't design anything with the intent of them not being balanced for high level play, but that doesn't mean that everything he does ends up being balanced for tournament level play.
For MK, it's a trend: Sakurai's pets start off broken, then end up sucking foreever after that. Pikachu was fine in Smash 64, since everyone in that game except Samus could easily take him on.

Also Little Mac may have not needed nerfs, but the outcry was so huge Sakurai had to do something. Customs equipment is for fun, remember? This game doesn't revolve around us, which is why items exist. They're for s*** and giggles.

Akuma was a boss character that required a long, tedious, hard, annoying code, as well as beating said boss character. He was not meant nor made to be remotely balanced, and had more in common with a game-breaking bug than actual characters. And each game has a top tier, 3rd Strike wasn't that bad.

Of course he designs things for fun, I'm glad you notice that. But this has nothing to do with customs. If brawl, a slow, boring, overcentralized game got 2 chances at EVO, one with items and one without, then why can't Smash 4 have customs on.

Let's just goddamm see if it works. If it fails, customs aren't coming back. If the inherent problem is Smash 4, It'll only appear for 2 years.

Why are you so unwilling to try? It isn't too early, with that logic it will always be too early because nobody wants to try out change, and then customs will be permanbanned because everyone's used to them off.

Also provide one argument not involving randomness (custom moves are clearly not random, and they are easy to learn). If they are broken, then let's also ban Monkey Flip and Banana, make them use Back Flip and Shocking Peel.

If they are hard to get, Crazy Orders with Quick Batter First Strike HRB equipment(It's there to make the game easier, use it and max the turn counter with Fox!) can get them all in no time, and amiibos battles overnight and Smash Tour can let you AFK it while you play other consoles. You may have already provided one, I'd like to see it, so I can assure you that said thing will not be a problem.

Just try it. Please.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 10, 2015
Messages
40
Customs apply to every character. You missed the point. Customs require too much time to invest into them and waste time if people were to tell each other the customs they had and is just silly overall. Customs are plain stupid. Customs are stupid. Play it normally. Play it like For Glory 2 stock no customs and no miis. I find it surprising that NINTENDO is the more competitively focused while tournaments are still goofing off.
I missed the point? You said customs were random. They are not. You can look them up on Youtube and see what they do everytime you use them. And in the long run, they aren't THAT much of a hassle. I imagine if you tried grinding them out, you could get them all in maybe a week or so. Besides, not ALL of them are going to be viable obviously. Some are just plain dumb. So find the ones that seem good, see what others found out about them, and do research on what to do with them. If a "pro" player can't adapt to something like that then they've got no right being at the top.

And there aren't any issues with Miis. If anything, they're kind've subpar. Gunner and Sword don't seem that strong to me, and Brawler is like Mac in that its recovery is ****e. The reason Miis aren't allowed online is because people would use ones with penises for faces or Hitler. There's no reason they shouldn't be allowed in tourneys.
 

warriorman222

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
983
Location
Meanwhile in Canada...
3DS FC
3866-8698-4754
http://youtu.be/KKXNJwnkeNw?t=57s

You uh... You wanna run that by me again chief?
That's Heavy Egg Roll(more dmage, resets speed on hit, laughable speed and even dumber acceleration, super aromor) That's not a shield.

Well good or bad as Storm Punch is, DK needs it, considering he is worse than a large portion of the cast. DK deserves the day to be broken or at least good, and his two customs don't put him anywhere near the former, more toward the latter. It doesn't count that he was MK tier for 4 months in SSF2, that's a fan game.

And how about the rest of my post?

EDIT: Not to mention that was a fully charged, perfectly sweetspotted, 139% rage-induced windbox vs Di'ing down/away, (albeit Heavy)Egg Rolling in the direction of the windbox Yoshi that was at 100%.

At 0% the sweetspot does nothing even at full charge. The sourspots are only going anywhere notable around 300%.
 
Last edited:

EvCogz

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 20, 2015
Messages
1
if you think about it a really big exploit in team battles would be the olimar reflected pikmin thing fox could just grab and olimar could easily finish with any smash move or an aerial that uses pikim
 

warriorman222

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
983
Location
Meanwhile in Canada...
3DS FC
3866-8698-4754
if you think about it a really big exploit in team battles would be the olimar reflected pikmin thing fox could just grab and olimar could easily finish with any smash move or an aerial that uses pikim
You know... Ban the combination if it becomes a problem is what I would do.
 
Top Bottom