Smash 4 Evo 2015 Ruleset Updated: Customs On!

[ROBnWatch]

randomness is actually not good, and your reason for allowing customs is the main reason people want them banned. If you refuse to tell your opponent your customs, then you're DQ'd.

I'm not really a competitive smasher, so I'm not really informed on all this. I don't understand why you guys hate randomness. It makes the game more enjoyable. Especially when somebody grabs an OP item. Then it really a test of the other player's skill to stay away from the person with the item, and land a few hits in there to kill them. It also tests how well a certain person can use that item. You need to adapt more to the circumstances and use different strategies. Unlike where in competitive Melee you can just use the same combo over and over.

However, my opinion is the minority, as it is with most things competitive Smash. So, have fun memorizing the exact same things over and over.

Honestly, if I went to a competitive Smash tournament, I'd probably be bored out of my mind watching the same combos over and over. Variety, in my eyes, is better.

 

[warriorman222]

I'm not really a competitive smasher, so I'm not really informed on all this. I don't understand why you guys hate randomness. It makes the game more enjoyable. Especially when somebody grabs an OP item. Then it really a test of the other player's skill to stay away from the person with the item, and land a few hits in there to kill them. It also tests how well a certain person can use that item. You need to adapt more to the circumstances and use different strategies. Unlike where in competitive Melee you can just use the same combo over and over.

However, my opinion is the minority, as it is with most things competitive Smash. So, have fun memorizing the exact same things over and over.

Honestly, if I went to a competitive Smash tournament, I'd probably be bored out of my mind watching the same combos over and over. Variety, in my eyes, is better.

Randomness doesn't belong in competition becuase money is on the line. If I lost the whole pot of Apex because someone had a Golden Hammer spawn next to them, how would that be? If it had spawn next to me, i would have won, but there's no way to truly gimp them because Golden hammer outprioritizes everything.

You can't adapt to luck. Ever. Custom moves aren't luck, but items are.

 

[Schaggy]

The community seems pretty positive on this but it takes one broken character to completely revise everyone's feelings. Diddy is broken, Sheik is boring, Meta is broken, Melee is best. Blah blah blah, the community is too reliant on stories like these imo. Lets focus on Sm4sh and making it the best we can make it. Customs probably won't stick around for serious tournaments or could have their own competitions.

 

[Schaggy]

The community seems pretty positive on this but it takes one broken character to completely revise everyone's feelings. Diddy is broken, Sheik is boring, Meta is broken, Melee is best. Blah blah blah, the community is too reliant on stories like these imo. Lets focus on Sm4sh and making it the best we can make it. Customs probably won't stick around for serious tournaments or could have their own competitions.

 

[Schaggy]

Fox's Up-B isn;t that great, and what's bad about upgrades to near bottom tiers?

I got a kill with his up-B. And it was at like 90% against I think Falcon. It has big kill potential.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

You can't adapt to luck. Ever. Custom moves aren't luck, but items are.

Then let's ban Peach (turnips), G&W (hammer) and Villager (turnips again?)

I'm just kidding

 

[Schaggy]

Then let's ban Peach (turnips), G&W (hammer) and Villager (turnips again?)

I'm just kidding

A smart player doesn't rely on moves that vary in power. Using them for show, sure, but to be better you'd need to use more viable moves, I'd say.

 

[warriorman222]

I got a kill with his up-B. And it was at like 90% against I think Falcon. It has big kill potential.

That's like saying that You can body Diddy, therefore he sucks. It's agreed on that the trade isn't completely one-sided, it's generally fine.

Then let's ban Peach (turnips), G&W (hammer) and Villager (turnips again?)

I'm just kidding

I was exaggerating. Okay? By luck I mean extrermely polarizing dice-rolls (Judge barely hits, Stitchface is survivable, 3 turnips is great but not busted Golden Hammer tho). Plus those are moves that vary in power, and are used for show. Golden Hammer is different.

And you forgot Pac-Man roulette.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Randomness doesn't belong in competition becuase money is on the line. If I lost the whole pot of Apex because someone had a Golden Hammer spawn next to them, how would that be? If it had spawn next to me, i would have won, but there's no way to truly gimp them because Golden hammer outprioritizes everything.

You can't adapt to luck. Ever. Custom moves aren't luck, but items are.

So I assume there were no other items on the field to be used other than the Golden Hammer? You couldn't have thrown anything, or used a projectile that your character may have had?

Also, why the heck are we betting money on a GAME?

The community seems pretty positive on this but it takes one broken character to completely revise everyone's feelings. Diddy is broken, Sheik is boring, Meta is broken, Melee is best. Blah blah blah, the community is too reliant on stories like these imo. Lets focus on Sm4sh and making it the best we can make it. Customs probably won't stick around for serious tournaments or could have their own competitions.

I'd be alright having a customs only tournament. That might be enjoyable for me.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I was exaggerating. Okay?

I was kidding, hence the

And you forgot Pac-Man roulette.

That's a taunt......

 

[ROBnWatch]

That's like saying that You can body Diddy, therefore he sucks. It's agreed on that the trade isn't completely one-sided, it's generally fine.


I was exaggerating. Okay? By luck I mean extrermely polarizing dice-rolls (Judge barely hits, Stitchface is survivable, 3 turnips is great but not busted Golden Hammer tho). Plus those are moves that vary in power, and are used for show. Golden Hammer is different.

And you forgot Pac-Man roulette.

Pac-Man roulette isn't random. There's a set order it goes by.

 

[warriorman222]

So I assume there were no other items on the field to be used other than the Golden Hammer? You couldn't have thrown anything, or used a projectile that your character may have had?

Also, why the heck are we betting money on a GAME?

I'm not assuming Golden Hammer is the only item. i'm using it as an example. Sure something like Food on Low would be fine(I'd be fine with it), but most people don't want to risk extended tourneys in any way. I'd be fine with some items on, but I, and almost nobody else wants to lose because someone got an opportune time at the worst possible time (Fan while my shield is low, Gust Bellows while i'm recovering, Steel Diver when I'm off stage). In those case, you just spam.

You're betting money on the game with your entry fee. It's all put into a pool, and winner gets the biggest share, with runner ups getting some more. But items are not there because they're trying to eliminate luck, if they reasonably can. Minorly affecting luck involved in a char's moveset is fine because you can't ban a character because he varies in something, and in most cases the really strong stuff are either rare(Stitchface, 9) or not extremely/at all rewarding (3 turnips, Pac-Man roulette).

They bet money on the game because they like to play it that much. If betting money on a game is wrong, betting on soccer matches, or even gambling of any kind should be wrong because they're literally the exact same, with gambling actually being a game based around betting money. But it isn't.

Pac-Man roulette isn't random. There's a set order it goes by.

It's random. try it a bunch of times, it won't appear in a set order unless you're luck incarnate.

I was kidding, hence the

I know, I just needed to be serious.

That's a taunt......

I was also kidding. need more of dem trollfaces

 

[ROBnWatch]

I'm not assuming Golden Hammer is the only item. i'm using it as an example. Sure something like Food on Low would be fine(I'd be fine with it), but most people don't want to risk extended tourneys in any way. I'd be fine with some items on, but I, and almost nobody else wants to lose because someone got an opportune time at the worst possible time (Fan while my shield is low, Gust Bellows while i'm recovering, Steel Diver when I'm off stage). In those case, you just spam.

You're betting money on the game with your entry fee. It's all put into a pool, and winner gets the biggest share, with runner ups getting some more. But items are not there because they're trying to eliminate luck, if they reasonably can. Minorly affecting luck involved in a char's moveset is fine because you can't ban a character because he varies in something, and in most cases the really strong stuff are either rare(Stitchface, 9) or not extremely/at all rewarding (3 turnips, Pac-Man roulette).

They bet money on the game because they like to play it that much. If betting money on a game is wrong, betting on soccer matches, or even gambling of any kind should be wrong because they're literally the exact same, with gambling actually being a game based around betting money. But it isn't.


It's random. try it a bunch of times, it won't appear in a set order unless you're luck incarnate.


I know, I just needed to be serious.


I was also kidding. need more of dem trollfaces

Well, now the money part makes sense. But items like Gust Bellows can be turned off.

 

[JayFresh]

Awww yiss! can't wait to see all the that don't lose half their stocks due to poor recovery, also down throw + wolf flash off stage spikes gah so much more HYPE now!

 

[Caryslan]

As someone who plays characters like Ganondorf, Ike, and Dr. Mario I love seeing custom moves allowed at Evo.

A custom move can give characters new options and tools that they might lack in their default moveset.

Take Dr. Mario for instance. With his default specials, he has one of the worst recoveries in the game. But with Super Jump Punch, his recovery becomes decent and comparable to Mario's It also gives him better options that he lacked previously. He can now edgeguard off stage more effectively with out the fear of his poor recovery holding him back. Add in soaring tornado, and Dr. Mario's options with recovery suddenly go from being one of the worst in the game, to pretty decent.

But there is a tradeoff of course. Super Jump Punch does no damage, and Soaring Tornado not only loses its damage potential, but also loses its horizontal movement as well.

Here's the thing, the biggest knock against Smash 4 has been the lack of depth in terms of options and a fears of a single character dominating the roster.

Now, we have a chance to not only have matchups that are no longer static, but can change even if two people are playing the same character.

Customs also open up new oppunities for characters to explore options the might have lacked previously. Using Dr. Mario as an example again, Super Jump Punch gives Dr. Mario offstage edge guarding options that in the past were not open to him since his recovery was quite poor.

I love seeing this change. I am happy Evo will finally allow custom moves. Now, we just need to have a tournament that plays 3 on 3 and 4 on 4 team battles.

 

[warriorman222]

Well, now the money part makes sense. But items like Gust Bellows can be turned off.

I know. But here's a thing: I'd be fine with tame items like Food and Green Shell, but the community is horribly against them.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I know. But here's a thing: I'd be fine with tame items like Food and Green Shell, but the community is horribly against them.

I am not. Items are one of the things that makes Smash enjoyable and while I agree some items are OP and should be banned, I think Smash tourneys could be much more enjoyable with the items that are not.

 

[warriorman222]

I am not. Items are one of the things that makes Smash enjoyable and while I agree some items are OP and should be banned, I think Smash tourneys could be much more enjoyable with the items that are not.

The community doesn't mean every single person, and if I generalized everything as that, I'm sorry, but most of the community (not me) is against any amount of items that's a given.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The community doesn't mean every single person, and if I generalized everything as that, I'm sorry, but most of the community (not me) is against any amount of items that's a given.

I know, just wanted to point out I'm not part of the majority. Some items have great potential in tourneys and are more balanced than you'd think.

 

[Delzethin]

And the fandom rejoiced. Access to customs adds even more depth to the game and allows players to pick specials that fit their playstyle the best...or even to handle more difficult matchups! Not to mention how many more characters this makes viable: Ike, Ganon, Palutena, and that's just the beginning. I wonder just how much variety we'll see in Evo's top 32!

And of course, it just wouldn't be a major announcement without ZeRo putting his foot in his mouth. >_>

 

[N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣]

Terrible just terrible details you have provided for me towards why Smash-4 should even grace Evo presence. I'm just going to assume and take an educated guess that a lot of people play Smash-4 so Evo is taking advantage of it, by allowing the game just so they can get wealth from it. That's the only reason I can think off but yyeah sure it's faster and better. Mhm and Obama is a good president. Thanks.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

Awww yiss! can't wait to see all the that don't lose half their stocks due to poor recovery, also down throw + wolf flash off stage spikes gah so much more HYPE now!

The real Wolf doing Wolf flash would be much more hype, though the Ganon matches should be interesting.

 

[Dulop]

Terrible just terrible details you have provided for me towards why Smash-4 should even grace Evo presence. I'm just going to assume and take an educated guess that a lot of people play Smash-4 so Evo is taking advantage of it, by allowing the game just so they can get wealth from it. That's the only reason I can think off but yyeah sure it's faster and better. Mhm and Obama is a good president. Thanks.

It is not melee, right?

 

[N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣]

It is not melee, right?

Elaborate more please, I don't understand what you're writing to myself.

I think you mean is there another game to be at Evo other than, Melee? Yes every other Smash game if Smash-4 the game participates. Thanks.

 

[warriorman222]

Terrible just terrible details you have provided for me towards why Smash-4 should even grace Evo presence. I'm just going to assume and take an educated guess that a lot of people play Smash-4 so Evo is taking advantage of it, by allowing the game just so they can get wealth from it. That's the only reason I can think off but yeah sure it's faster and better. Mhm and Obama is a good president. Thanks.

1. EVO is known for trying things out. If Sm4sh 4 didn't deserve EVO, then neither did Brawl with items, or Brawl without items. Or, you know, Melee for the first few years.
2. It's a new game, and it can die quick thanks to the existence of Melee and Brawl. If EVO were to refuse this game because of it's newness, it could possibly die off before next year.
3. You using Obama as an example is just... Whether or not he is a good president doesn't matter because that is 100% opinionated, since "good" is subjective. Back on topic.
4. It's faster and better than Brawl, which deserved EVO despite being seen as slow, campy, and having an apparently ridiculously "broken" character. There is no broken character in this game, people are just scared of Diddy's Hoo Hah. It only seems slow because handwarmers and coaching.
5. Custom specials make it different from earlier Smash games. If we want something new and fresh at EVO, Sm4sh 4 is a good candidate.

Also telling everyone that we're just making terrible details is not contributing to discussion. Maybe say why they're terrible?

Elaborate more please, I don't understand what you're writing to myself.

I think you mean is there another game to be at Evo other than, Melee? Yes every other Smash game if Smash-4 the game participates. Thanks.

Including Brawl, which has passed it's time and that is literally hated by most, as well as reintroducing us to Brawl MK?

Explain why every other Smash game should be there. It's not gonna happen, because there's only space for two Smash games. Melee is a given, and so is Smash 4.

 

[N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣]

1. EVO is known for trying things out. If Sm4sh 4 didn't deserve EVO, then neither did Brawl with items, or Brawl without items. Or, you know, Melee for the first few years.
2. It's a new game, and it can die quick thanks to the existence of Melee and Brawl. If EVO were to refuse this game because of it's newness, it could possibly die off before next year.
3. You using Obama as an example is just... Whether or not he is a good president doesn't matter because that is 100% opinionated, since "good" is subjective. Back on topic.
4. It's faster and better than Brawl, which deserved EVO despite being seen as slow, campy, and having an apparently ridiculously "broken" character. There is no broken character in this game, people are just scared of Diddy's Hoo Hah. It only seems slow because handwarmers and coaching.
5. Custom specials make it different from earlier Smash games. If we want something new and fresh at EVO, Sm4sh 4 is a good candidate.

Also telling everyone that we're just making terrible details is not contributing to discussion. Maybe say why they're terrible?


Including Brawl, which has passed it's time and that is literally hated by most, as well as reintroducing us to Brawl MK?

Explain why every other Smash game should be there. It's not gonna happen, because there's only space for two Smash games. Melee is a given, and so is Smash 4.

Still have no idea man why you feel that strongly about Brawl being worse is dumb. You have people already giving up hope, why should Evo above all give this game a SECOND chance. Brawl only had one time to join Evo, why should this game above all even be able to have a second chance. SSTiers still winning the majors so what no difference whatsoever only borning and less entertaining.

 

[WinterShorts]

Oh god....my number of likes is 666. Someone, QUICKLY! LIKE THIS POST! ANY ONE OF MY POSTS! PLEASE!! VILLAGER DEMON IS AFTER ME!!!

EDIT: Ahhhh......peace at last. Thanks @ Zethoro

 

[ansossy]

Customs are stupid. First of all people have to unlock them through countless countless hours to play them while people should have the characters unlocked by at least a week, but customs on average will take a person 2-6 months depending on their dedication. Customs are going to ruin the tournament just like every other special moves there are op customs and it changes the whole strategy of the game to the point that it really just ruins all the preparation and training. I think this is a stupid idea. As for the stages.... Seriously.... Lylat Cruise's ledges are so ****ing broken and its tilting ruins a lot... Castle Siege is by far the worst a stage can get as it blocks projectiles and allows for excessive blastzone camping and statue camping to keep people safe from projectiles. The idea that Lylat Cruise is a starter is the stupidest thing I've ever seen in my life.

 

[Zethoro]

Customs are stupid. First of all people have to unlock them through countless countless hours to play them while people should have the characters unlocked by at least a week, but customs on average will take a person 2-6 months depending on their dedication. Customs are going to ruin the tournament just like every other special moves there are op customs and it changes the whole strategy of the game to the point that it really just ruins all the preparation and training. I think this is a stupid idea. As for the stages.... Seriously.... Lylat Cruise's ledges are so ****ing broken and its tilting ruins a lot... Castle Siege is by far the worst a stage can get as it blocks projectiles and allows for excessive blastzone camping and statue camping to keep people safe from projectiles. The idea that Lylat Cruise is a starter is the stupidest thing I've ever seen in my life.

It's a pretty balanced stage. Literally the most unbalanced thing about it is the ocassional tilt. What's the big deal?

That said, Bowser now top tier at EVO. I hope we get some great Bowsers at Evo, the slash makes him so much better. Super happy that customs are allowed.

 

[warriorman222]

DK Wind mach punch can kill from 75% screen without any skill or setup needed

Pikachu's heavy thunderbolt can kill at percents as low as 80% with little setup or skill

Sheik's needle buff CRUSHES shield in just 2 hits of needles and after getting hit once you can't use shield for a while or it will break

Lucario's slow moving aura ball actually makes his edgeguarding the dumbest thing on the fact of the planet

Lucario's force palm (side B) ends up becoming the best move in the game as its still fairly safe, slides, and still retains huge range from aura

Lucario's counter buff gives you the ability to combo counters into smash moves for massive damage and easy kills

Fox's Up B buff gives him the ability to kill at percents as low as 60% for free

Those are just the ones I know about and have, I don't even know what half of the customs in this game do

For DK Mach Punch, the windbox does nothing to shields. Besides DK isn't really good anyways.

Shiek's new needles no like no damage. jump?

Snaring Sphere has like no range. let them charge it up and it's your fault.

Advancing Palm is locked at 0% for kill power.

Paralyzing Counter has like no frames and can still be blocked, and can now be mashed out of.

Twisting Fox is Barrel Roll, so it desrves to be broken is fine. It has more startup, less speed and distance, making edgeguarding harder for Fox and easier for you. And it killed Rosa at 60%... near the top of Omega Mario Galaxy.

Rocketbarrel Kaboom has far less max distance and slightly shortened charge time. you can't ride the lips or snap the ledge easily, you'll kill yourself. Rocketbarrel Attack is garbage, trades angles for nothing.

Now let me tackle potential/bandwagon complaints:

Timber Counter has a useless tree and in return, you get a stationary timed banana.

Gust Cape has less active frames, 4 more startup, does half damage. you sacrifice a surprising amount for a windbox.

Kong Cyclone loses to command grabs, Jumping Inhale is an OHKO. And it lets stupid stuff like dragging Luigi misfire offstage happen.

You lose Shooting star bits if Luma dies, and reflecting it guarantees a hit on Luma.

Piston punch works on like 8/51 characters, and only Jiggly is truly inescapable. Roy's works on the whole cast, is inescapable, has much more lenient percent reqs, and does more damage even if it fails.

Helicopter Kick forces Brawler to keep you in the 40-50% range, leave that, and he's never killing you for a long time.

Explosive Balloon Trip has less distance, and when he zooms up, he's vulnerable and get spiked easily.


Any other complaints?

snip.

Custom moveset Project removes the months of grinding, which are in reality 1-4 weeks on 3DS, and then you get them forever on as many Wii Us as you need. Don't exxagerate.

Lylat is fine, it just makes you work more to recover. If you don't wanna do that, don't come to EVO. And we needed a 5th starter, and Delfino/DH are much less qualified.

If people camp, go for them, you have cover too, and they have to leave statue cover to shoot you.

 

[PlayerXIII]

Still have no idea man why you feel that strongly about Brawl being worse is dumb. You have people already giving up hope, why should Evo above all give this game a SECOND chance. Brawl only had one time to join Evo, why should this game above all even be able to have a second chance. SSTiers still winning the majors so what no difference whatsoever only borning and less entertaining.

Umm... Where is Evo giving this game a second chance, really? I don't believe Evo ever had Smash 4 Wii U on it's line up before

 

[N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣]

Umm... Where is Evo giving this game a second chance, really? I don't believe Evo ever had Smash 4 Wii U on it's line up before

Ohhhh, that is right it was the Smash Interventional. Okay my mistake then I'll hush now.

 

[warriorman222]

Ohhhh, that is right it was the Smash Interventional. Okay my mistake then I'll hush now.

It's ok. everybody makes mistakes! Oh yeah did you read my post? Sorry if it was harsh.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Terrible just terrible details you have provided for me towards why Smash-4 should even grace Evo presence. I'm just going to assume and take an educated guess that a lot of people play Smash-4 so Evo is taking advantage of it, by allowing the game just so they can get wealth from it. That's the only reason I can think off but yyeah sure it's faster and better. Mhm and Obama is a good president. Thanks.

Can you prove that Smash-4 doesn't belong in EVO using actual facts and not jumping on the bandwagon that Obama is a bad president?

 

[warriorman222]

Can you prove that Smash-4 doesn't belong in EVO using actual facts and not jumping on the bandwagon that Obama is a bad president?

Let's not start this again. He's already decided to step down.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Let's not start this again. He's already decided to step down.

My bad.

 

[ansossy]

It's a pretty balanced stage. Literally the most unbalanced thing about it is the ocassional tilt. What's the big deal?

That said, Bowser now top tier at EVO. I hope we get some great Bowsers at Evo, the slash makes him so much better. Super happy that customs are allowed.

It adds to the amount of learning time and can break the balance of some characters and is just as random as items. You won't know what it is until it is too late. Next you have to unlock all of them giving overwhelming advantages to people who sit on their ass and play gay classic mode all day when the real people are trying to have a serious match with friends or online. Custom Specials randomize the game too much as if learning how to fight an entire character wasn't enough... Custom moves aren't in online mode just as mii fighters aren't. So what the hell gives tournaments an exception when online is ran by a generally more less-competitive interested company?

 

[ICXCM]

Do customs include equipment? I'm guessing not.

 

[Zethoro]

It adds to the amount of learning time and can break the balance of some characters and is just as random as items. You won't know what it is until it is too late. Next you have to unlock all of them giving overwhelming advantages to people who sit on their *** and play gay classic mode all day when the real people are trying to have a serious match with friends or online. Custom Specials randomize the game too much as if learning how to fight an entire character wasn't enough... Custom moves aren't in online mode just as mii fighters aren't. So what the hell gives tournaments an exception when online is ran by a generally more less-competitive interested company?

I didn't make an argument about customs, my argument was about Lylat as a starter. I didn't bother because the argument against customs has no real merit.
"You have to unlock all of them"
No, YOU don't. This is EVO, not every tournament has to use customs. You just need to unlock all the ones you care about for your mains to practice.
"It adds to the learning time and can beeak the balance"
Since when is a deeper game a BAD thing? Sm4sh kinda needs this niche to bring something new to the table.
"Custom specials randomize-"
No, I've seen this point too much. You can tell them what customs you're using. Easy.
"Customs aren't allowed online"
Because Custom Equipment exists. We're not allowing equipment here, that's a different story.
"Just as Mii fighters aren't"
Part of the reason I'd say customs are allowed. Mii Fighters are legitimate characters, and aren't allowed online so we don't just fight hundreds of penises.
"What gives tournaments the right when online is less competitive"
...? Are you sure you typed that correctly? Regardless, I'll assume you didn't. Tournaments allow it because it increases the game's depth and makes Diddy less dominating.

 

[KirbyFan5o]

Still too soon for customs imo. That should be explored after Evo. Welp, time to discover everything possible!

Besides the Olimar reflected Pikmin thing.

I think now's the time for using customs. this tournament will make custom special moves the norm, as it is one of, if not the biggest tournament this year. as for the olimar thing, just ban that custom in certain match-ups in doubles. Then we're good.