Smash 4 at EVO?

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Is auto cancelling returning? That would be bad as it not only takes the bad aspect of L cancelling (there is no reason you don't do it) but also punishes you for trying to speed up the game by landing earlier so you have more options. landing lag should be low across the board regardless of when you land. Auto cancelling just hurts balance more than low landing lag across the board or no such mechanic.

Being fair Auto canceling only works at certain Points. Float canceling with Peach is similar.

L-Cancelling does it at all points so there is no true choice.

Some moves also can't do it at beginning or end of aerials. So there is individual mastery.

L-Cancelling is universal.

 

[Senario]

Being fair Auto canceling only works at certain Points. Float canceling with Peach is similar.

L-Cancelling does it at all points so there is no true choice.

Some moves also can't do it at beginning or end of aerials. So there is individual mastery.

L-Cancelling is universal.

Well that is what I'm saying, Auto cancelling is an iffy mechanic that only works on the moves it is programmed to work on. And then it only happens at the end of an animation usually so it makes it a much more restrictive mechanic than L cancelling ever was since L cancelling was universal. Having it only on some characters naturally gives them an invisible advantage that a skilled player can take advantage of and widen the gap a bit too much since player 2's character may not even be capable of auto cancelling any useful moves. It is just such a shame because I always saw low landing lag as helpful to slower characters to keep up with speedy ones.

That said, smash bros games should have low landing lag(no need for L input, it serves no purpose) on air moves regardless of when you land or who your character is. The individual mastery just leads to imbalance between characters unless it has heavy downsides for the particular characters who can do it.

 

[Venks]

I'm really looking forward to seeing Smash 4 at EVO. I honestly can't imagine it not being there. Smash 4 is twice as hype as Brawl was at release and that game made it into EVO.

If I find myself in America at the time then I will definitely be participating myself. Without a doubt I'll be in every Smash 4 tourney we have here in Melbourne Australia.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Well that is what I'm saying, Auto cancelling is an iffy mechanic that only works on the moves it is programmed to work on. And then it only happens at the end of an animation usually so it makes it a much more restrictive mechanic than L cancelling ever was since L cancelling was universal. Having it only on some characters naturally gives them an invisible advantage that a skilled player can take advantage of and widen the gap a bit too much since player 2's character may not even be capable of auto cancelling any useful moves. It is just such a shame because I always saw low landing lag as helpful to slower characters to keep up with speedy ones.

That said, smash bros games should have low landing lag(no need for L input, it serves no purpose) on air moves regardless of when you land or who your character is. The individual mastery just leads to imbalance between characters unless it has heavy downsides for the particular characters who can do it.

The idea is that it balances different characters rather than across the board so some characters don't get that really good cancel on moves that would be stupid with it.

This seems to be what Sakurai is trying to emphasis, giving different characters clear advantages and disadvantages.

Taking a shot in the dark that MK is partly why he is doing this.

Look at the spacies in Melee, what is their weakness? People wreck them if they break their neutral game. But that's not exclusive to them and some characters like Roy and Falcon have that but Worse. In exchange? Spacies get to be jack of all trades but masters of a few of those. That's not good game design, having a mastery of sonething isn't bad if there is a trade off.

Fox and Falco actually had this in Brawl. Meta knight still failed in this reguard.

Smash 4 is trying to emphasis this a lot more to add strength where they need it and where others don't need it . Then adding a clear weaknesses to them makes it there is something you can try and work on using to your advantage.

Auto canceling in turn, like Peach's float cancel, emphasis they get in during certain parts of the move. But of they want to use it any other way, they get a trade off since they can't always get the auto cancel, spacing/positioning/height, all matter for this.

With L-Cancelling, none of this matters.

Smash 4 has a good chance since they learned from the mistakes of the other games, and are trying to add more that can be helpful for the game.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

What are you even referring too?

Theres millions of viewers who tune every day to twtich to watch countless people farm. Thats not even counting the other streaming services and spectator clients.

People don't just watch the huge esports events they watch farming too and soooo many people enjoy it, saying that no body does is an insult.

 

[Saikyoshi]

Theres millions of viewers who tune every day to twtich to watch countless people farm. Thats not even counting the other streaming services and spectator clients.

People don't just watch the huge esports events they watch farming too and soooo many people enjoy it, saying that no body does is an insult.

To clarify, do you mean level grinding or FarmVille?

 

[Clavaat]

Theres millions of viewers who tune every day to twtich to watch countless people farm. Thats not even counting the other streaming services and spectator clients.

People don't just watch the huge esports events they watch farming too and soooo many people enjoy it, saying that no body does is an insult.

I don't know what you are talking about with "farming". Also, I don't think anyone said nobody watches Smash. In my own post, I said I watched it at EVO, but personally (important here), found it a bit boring.

Actually, I don't really have any idea what you're trying to say here.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

He might Be talking about League of Legends or DOTA2.

 

[Clavaat]

He might Be talking about League of Legends or DOTA2.

That doesn't make it any more relevant. I don't understand the point. People find different things entertaining, it's not my place to judge. I gave my opinion, and maybe others share it while others don't. I know what I would like to see, so I said it. That's all.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Yeah I think he's comparing watching people farm in MOBAs to watching the same characters fight match after match in Smash tournaments. Which I don't think can be compared at all. Yeah I get tired of seeing Fox all the time but I'm still interested in the match overall. Much more exciting to me than watching people farm minions. But then again that's me. Others may like it

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Okay so... Back to the point at hand?

Honestly, even if Smash 4 is the only main stage game we'll still have Melee as a side event. Though, frankly, two street fighter games (3 and 4) co-existed for a long time. Smash is popular enough to have two games on stream. If you don't like one of em that's great: Don't watch it.

Also personally I'd rather not have Smash 4 on the main floor unless it has a stabilized rule set by then. IIRC, Brawl had items at EVO 2008 (okay, I don't expect anything THAT catastrophic now, but still)

 

[Black Hayato PTA]

Imma quote my previous post for this :

"While brawl is very competitive, it pace is too slow and, for those that aren't hardcore to that following, is very hard to watch. This isn't an opinion as brawl itself has a very low viewership vs Melee and Project: M. Even in the FGC Marvel vs Capcom 3 has the highest viewership due to its aggression and flashy gameplay. It is exciting to watch. Same reason Ultra Street Fighter 4 departed from vanillas zone based combat. Hell even casuals hate watching camping and slow play (see: Zero at Smash Bros Invitational reactions) even though it's super legit strat and requires a specialized skill set."

I want to see Smash 4 at EVO and I think they always put the new games in for at least one year so I can see it happening. I'm going to support it competitively as well by attending some locals. But remember, if we play it a lot and realize it doesn't reward skillful offensive play and it becomes too defensive and or has horrible game balance that has only 1 character viable at all, not only will competitors get bored, but the FANS will not enjoy watching or supporting it. Casual players HATED how zero played hungry box at the invitationals. He got boo'd. They hate slow play and camping. So it's not just the "poisonous" community as it's also the casuals who watch, play, and support the game.

Hell people in this thread mentioned the SF community and say they supported 4, but 4 also got several version changes and balances based upon community feedback. Vanilla was horribly campy and zone based with a very bad character balance and now in Ultra theres alot of viable characters and while theres still spacing and knowing when to press buttons, there's a high reward for offensive manuvers. Lameing someone out happens in every game tho even in the fastest of games like MVSC3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uGQfE60xOk#t=284 skip to 4:53 if it doesn't work. (Btw I love this haha. watch till the end of the round) Now read the comments and imagine if that's the way you had to play the game with all the chars and drawn out time outs were the most viable means of winning every time. Takes skill but lol no one would be playing that mess for long.

 

[Pazzo.]

Whatever happens will be up to us, and how we choose to develop the metagame between now and launch. If Nintendo jocks for SSB4 at EVO 2015, and we don't have a decent following, people won't watch it, and It'll be gone for EVO 2016.

As long as we tread carefully, we'll be fine.

 

[Venks]

Imma quote my previous post for this :

Hell people in this thread mentioned the SF community and say they supported 4, but 4 also got several version changes and balances based upon community feedback. Vanilla was horribly campy and zone based with a very bad character balance and now in Ultra theres alot of viable characters and while theres still spacing and knowing when to press buttons, there's a high reward for offensive manuvers. Lameing someone out happens in every game tho even in the fastest of games like MVSC3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uGQfE60xOk#t=284 skip to 4:53 if it doesn't work. (Btw I love this haha. watch till the end of the round) Now read the comments and imagine if that's the way you had to play the game with all the chars and drawn out time outs were the most viable means of winning every time. Takes skill but lol no one would be playing that mess for long.

That video isn't exactly a fair example. F.Champ had that match in the bag and could of won it at any moment. He was just being lame and pushing Haggar out simply so he could embarrass the other player on the big screen. That's not how Magneto normally plays against Haggar. Magneto's Repulsion is one of the worst moves in the game and has next to no practical use. It only worked against the character because he has no mobility and his assist characters were dead.

 

[Dracometeor]

Yeah I think he's comparing watching people farm in MOBAs to watching the same characters fight match after match in Smash tournaments. Which I don't think can be compared at all. Yeah I get tired of seeing Fox all the time but I'm still interested in the match overall. Much more exciting to me than watching people farm minions. But then again that's me. Others may like it

Yeah... Except in Lcs games this season the laning phase has only been lasting 6 minutes(including 1:55 of the spawn setup time) so his point doesn't really make sense. Oh we'll he only responds once a day so we will never know.

 

[SmashChu]

It's only one of the largest side tournaments at EVO.

Last time I checked, Street Fighter 4 was the main event.

Boom or bust? So Nintendo surely must be in the wrong to acknowledge, support, and celebrate the current members of the Melee community, right? If their gameplay preferences are that toxic to Smash 4 and the franchise, what's going on? Why is Nintendo not taking this as gravely as you are?

Nintendo is acknowledging the Smash Brothers community. Nintendo isn't seeing a difference. In fact, Reggie assumes that everyone is going to jump on Smash 4 when it comes out.

"I want to thank you all for continuing to support the Super Smash Brothers series over all these years." This is a direct quote from Reggie. Smash Brothers. Not Melee. Which includes Smash 4.

"But we'll soon have new games in the series for you to put to the test.........I expect you all to become masters of those new games too."

It has nothing to do with Nintendo. The game will sell with or without the community. But Nintendo's support is going to hinge on the community adopting Smash 4. Nintendo has a reason to support the community now which is advertising and promotion. They won't have a reason to support it afterwards unless the community gives them one. Capcom supports the FGC beause they actually play games Capcom has on the market now. But if the community is going to bad mouth the newest game (because it's not an exact replica of the old one) and just keep playing Melee, than Nintendo will provide no support because it doesn't benefit them. Then it's just a waste of time.

By definition, sure. Way to play semantics. But competitively viable by community standard? No.

Da **** does that even mean

 

[Thirdkoopa]

()loop

Answer me this, people:
Why can't Melee still exist on the front floor of EVO while Smash 4 is there? I see no losses to it bar people being whiny about it (Which they will, but the community as a whole should be mature) - This is barring what Nintendo says, so let's not pretend to know what Nintendo says. Also this is considering the fact that people did want PM back at EVO.

Seriously. I don't get it.

j/s.

 

[Johnknight1]

Nintendo is acknowledging the Smash Brothers community. Nintendo isn't seeing a difference. In fact, Reggie assumes that everyone is going to jump on Smash 4 when it comes out.

>Says there is no future in competitive video games, especially Smash, even after EVO 2013.

>>Says every smash player should always play the most recent entry always and stop playing everything else.

>>>Tells people who prefer Melee to Brawl "traitors" and/or not real Smash fans.

>>>>Actively hates on the competitive scene, referring to competitive players as losers, say competitive smashers don't have real jobs or real families, and just in general calls them the lowest common denominators.

>>>>>Acts like he's the voice of reason and tells the competitive players what to do.

The community needs to be active in killing the Melee zealotry.

The community needs to kill off non-smash fans and competitive play haters like you who don't even go to or care about tournaments.

Us who attend tournaments and play the games competitively decides what lives and dies. Such is the way of capitalism and natural selection.

===

Also if they assumed everyone would "jump ship", Brawl would be at EVO 2013 and EVO 2014, not Melee.

There's room for both Melee and Smash WiiU (and even Smash 3DS if we have wired connection play) at EVO 2015.

Also, there's room for Smash 64 and Brawl at EVO 2015 (at least as a side event) if those communities would rally behind that game and attend EVO with big numbers.

Melee's already 2nd in viewership peak and 3rd in attendance, and with UMvC3 probably set to free fall soon (as well as Injustice and Mortal Kombat 9), there's plenty of room for more games, especially in the Super Smash Bros. franchise.

I'm not a competitive level 64 or Brawl player, but if I was, I'd try to push for those games as a legitimate side event. I enjoy watching those games (and being bad at 64, lol!), and I would love, just love, to see all Smash games past and present at EVO next year.

To see each specific competitive smash community shine at EVO would be something fantastic to see, and a true testament of the series' competitive legacy.

 

[Thunderfang747]

()loo

Answer me this, people:
Why can't Melee still exist on the front floor of EVO while Smash 4 is there? I see no losses to it bar people being whiny about it (Which they will, but the community as a whole should be mature) - This is barring what Nintendo says, so let's not pretend to know what Nintendo says. Also this is considering the fact that people did want PM back at EVO.

Seriously. I don't get it.

j/s.

I think this has to do with the nature of what Evo is. Evo isn't a Smash Bros tournament like APEX, it is a tournament for nearly all currently big fighting games. The number of game slots are limited to what they can provide time and venue space to. Having two Smash games co-existing as main events could be seen as unfair to fans of games like SF third strike or MvC2 for example, and even deny another game like Blazblue, Injustice, or Tekken a spot all together. We could probably see one Smash game as a main event and the other as a side event though.

 

[greenluigiman2]

I think Melee would do perfectly fine as a side tournament.

Who do you guys think will be among the Smash 4 commentators at EVO. D1? Keitaro? Rapture?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I think this has to do with the nature of what Evo is. Evo isn't a Smash Bros tournament like APEX, it is a tournament for nearly all currently big fighting games. The number of game slots are limited to what they can provide time and venue space to. Having two Smash games co-existing as main events could be seen as unfair to fans of games like SF third strike or MvC2 for example, and even deny another game like Blazblue, Injustice, or Tekken a spot all together. We could probably see one Smash game as a main event and the other as a side event though.

Mind you, this was back when there were only six slots for EVO (Now with 7-9) and other series have done this as well. They'll live.

also its not like people want injustice back anyways but it'll get replaced by mk10 so...

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

()loop

Answer me this, people:
Why can't Melee still exist on the front floor of EVO while Smash 4 is there? I see no losses to it bar people being whiny about it (Which they will, but the community as a whole should be mature) - This is barring what Nintendo says, so let's not pretend to know what Nintendo says. Also this is considering the fact that people did want PM back at EVO.

Seriously. I don't get it.

j/s.

Because the first year at CoT4 and at Genesis 1 melee pushed out brawl finals till 2 am in a hotel room and off the main stage. This happened all over the country too when I went tournaments in AZ brawl didn't end till 4 a.m. It was down right abusive.

Maybe this won't happen again but no one ever saw any reason to stop before so I don't see why they would change their behavior when it's so beneficial to them.

Yeah... Except in Lcs games this season the laning phase has only been lasting 6 minutes(including 1:55 of the spawn setup time) so his point doesn't really make sense. Oh we'll he only responds once a day so we will never know.

That was only for a short time, I don't know why you'd even think in that manner lol. Especially since I specified that I am talking about phenomena outside the lcs. Many more people tune into watch the first person perspective of streamers than they do to the omniscient spectator mode in Esport matches, which show cases a huge emphasis on farming. Game after game there is more farming being spectated than there are high level team fights, yet people still tune in to what other people absolutely believe no one wants to watch.

 

[Black Hayato PTA]

That video isn't exactly a fair example. F.Champ had that match in the bag and could of won it at any moment. He was just being lame and pushing Haggar out simply so he could embarrass the other player on the big screen. That's not how Magneto normally plays against Haggar. Magneto's Repulsion is one of the worst moves in the game and has next to no practical use. It only worked against the character because he has no mobility and his assist characters were dead.

I know and I agree with all of that. That wasn't my point though. I was saying you can create an instance like that in any game even if its very unlikely but if it were played like that all the time (and was the most viable) no one would play it or watch it. Marvel is rarely played like that (the closest i could think of were the time out strats back in the day with MODOK but I forgot the name of the player who did it tho). But yea, like I said I actually liked what f champ did I thought it was hilarious and 100% disrespect even if some people were hating on it hard haha.

 

[pizzapie7]

Mind you, this was back when there were only six slots for EVO (Now with 7-9) and other series have done this as well. They'll live.

also its not like people want injustice back anyways but it'll get replaced by mk10 so...

Difference is that Street Fighter is the biggest and most popular main line traditional fighting series and Smash is an outsider in the FGC. We shouldn't expect more than one Smash game in the main lineup.

 

[Dracometeor]

Because the first year at CoT4 and at Genesis 1 melee pushed out brawl finals till 2 am in a hotel room and off the main stage. This happened all over the country too when I went tournaments in AZ brawl didn't end till 4 a.m. It was down right abusive.

Maybe this won't happen again but no one ever saw any reason to stop before so I don't see why they would change their behavior when it's so beneficial to them.



That was only for a short time, I don't know why you'd even think in that manner lol. Especially since I specified that I am talking about phenomena outside the lcs. Many more people tune into watch the first person perspective of streamers than they do to the omniscient spectator mode in Esport matches, which show cases a huge emphasis on farming. Game after game there is more farming being spectated than there are high level team fights, yet people still tune in to what other people absolutely believe no one wants to watch.

Except people fight while farming.... And why did you even bring up LoL? Anyways there are multiple reasons why people watch LoL and streamers, there is a reason a lot of popular streamers play jungle which is the least farm intensive. And most other streamers are interactive and funny.

 

[JV5Chris]

But Nintendo's support is going to hinge on the community adopting Smash 4.

If that is what you're so worried about, rest easy. Nintendo's not going to walk away just because the Melee scene has a steady following. Too much ridding on this game now from selling figurines to selling systems. They're going to ride this wave for as long as it's gaining them additional mindshare and exposure.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Except people fight while farming.... And why did you even bring up LoL? Anyways there are multiple reasons why people watch LoL and streamers, there is a reason a lot of popular streamers play jungle which is the least farm intensive. And most other streamers are interactive and funny.

I wasn't the one to bring it up someone else did first saying that no one likes to watch farming which is untrue. You want to come up with reasons for why it happens yet I wonder if you accept that some people do enjoy watching someone farm. I'm aware that there are multiple reasons for a games popularity, which is in fact the point that I actually wanted someone to bring up for me. I wanted to get someone thinking along those lines. Smash is crazy popular, hardly anyone understands just how popular. Being aggressive isn't a qualification that must be met in order to have a growing scene.

 

[Takehiko]

If smash4 comes out December, that will be
6 months
26 weeks
146.4 Hours
4392 minutes

Now consider in all that time, you have people playing these characters in training sessions, getting in massive amounts of hours on friendlies (online and offline), small tourney's happening (since I live in GA Momocon will be having one.), making tutorials online about the characters which will allow anyone behind to catch up, and don't forget that some if not all this will be recorced, so you have all of this content that will be devoted to the game's meta development.

Next let's think about all the match-up theories that are placed on characters in the character discussion threads, so essentially when you have the game come out, you have a bunch of players on this fourm who are just walking into the lab with a list of stuff to test out. So a meta will be developed early. I think what it all depends on is what Nintendo will do with balancing patches that will decide if techniques remain.

As far as evo, I think that it will have the first year, but it will seriously depend on how hard it will be pushed by the community and the viewer ship numbers. Because if you can get higher than 133,157 (which was this year's viewer rating for SSBM) then what can evo do, but listen to the majority


Evo Veiwer ratings:
https://public.tableausoftware.com/...ry?:embed=y&:display_count=no&:showVizHome=no

 

[kazrisk]

It's also worth noting that a lot of the big professional Smashers are already pretty dedicated to Smash 4, regardless of how it is. Mew2King has seen it, played it, and while he has issues with parts of it he is determined to stream if and become the best at it. Ken and his brother were saying in a stream that along with KDJ they are planning on putting most of their time into Smash 4. Mango has tweeted several times that he is ready to start focusing on new mains that Smash 4 will offer with the updated roster. The support of these Smashers will be huge also and is a positive sign that it will be big in the competitive scene for at least a year out of the simple determination and ambition of these Smashers trying to prove they are the best at this new iteration of Smash. EVO 2015 will be their first opportunity to show off all the initial work they do and reveal who mastered the game the fastest. Will be very very hyped and pushed by Nintendo, sponsored by Nintendo, Reggie will probably even be there to kick Hungrybox's ass.

 

[Nontoxic]

It's also worth noting that a lot of the big professional Smashers are already pretty dedicated to Smash 4, regardless of how it is. Mew2King has seen it, played it, and while he has issues with parts of it he is determined to stream if and become the best at it. Ken and his brother were saying in a stream that along with KDJ they are planning on putting most of their time into Smash 4. Mango has tweeted several times that he is ready to start focusing on new mains that Smash 4 will offer with the updated roster. The support of these Smashers will be huge also and is a positive sign that it will be big in the competitive scene for at least a year out of the simple determination and ambition of these Smashers trying to prove they are the best at this new iteration of Smash. EVO 2015 will be their first opportunity to show off all the initial work they do and reveal who mastered the game the fastest. Will be very very hyped and pushed by Nintendo, sponsored by Nintendo, Reggie will probably even be there to kick Hungrybox's ***.

Inb4ReggieWinsEVO2015

 

[Johnknight1]

I think this has to do with the nature of what Evo is. Evo isn't a Smash Bros tournament like APEX, it is a tournament for nearly all currently big fighting games. The number of game slots are limited to what they can provide time and venue space to. Having two Smash games co-existing as main events could be seen as unfair to fans of games like SF third strike or MvC2 for example, and even deny another game like Blazblue, Injustice, or Tekken a spot all together. We could probably see one Smash game as a main event and the other as a side event though.

Here's the thing that separates Melee from MvC2, soon MvC3, all games that aren't SFIV and Smash 4: Attendance It has higher attendance. It has higher viewership. It hasn't heightened interest.

MvC3 shows signs of dying, Melee does not, even with a sequel coming.

With all the money, eyes, and entrants rising for Melee in everything, there's no reason to cut it.

At the end of the day, it's about the money, the player interest, and the fan interest. Melee has that in spades.

 

[greenluigiman2]

It's also worth noting that a lot of the big professional Smashers are already pretty dedicated to Smash 4, regardless of how it is. Mew2King has seen it, played it, and while he has issues with parts of it he is determined to stream if and become the best at it. Ken and his brother were saying in a stream that along with KDJ they are planning on putting most of their time into Smash 4. Mango has tweeted several times that he is ready to start focusing on new mains that Smash 4 will offer with the updated roster. The support of these Smashers will be huge also and is a positive sign that it will be big in the competitive scene for at least a year out of the simple determination and ambition of these Smashers trying to prove they are the best at this new iteration of Smash. EVO 2015 will be their first opportunity to show off all the initial work they do and reveal who mastered the game the fastest. Will be very very hyped and pushed by Nintendo, sponsored by Nintendo, Reggie will probably even be there to kick Hungrybox's ***.

Knew
Didn't know

This changes everything. Hopefully they stay true to their word. Mew2King and ZeRo are big enough already, but Ken and Mang0 would add a whole new level of credibility to the scene.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

This changes everything. Hopefully they stay true to their word. Mew2King and ZeRo are big enough already, but Ken and Mang0 would add a whole new level of credibility to the scene.

Yeah that's pretty exciting stuff. A lot Smash fans, especially those in the competitive scene, trust these guys. If they can say Smash 4 is legit then A LOT of people will be convinced and get on board with this game.

Either way Smash 4 currently has a huge following. Smash fans from 64 to PM are looking at this game and have high expectations. The time leading to EVO 2015 is going to be crazy. The game will be fresh and everyone will be doing their best to master their respective character(s). Just imagine...when this game hits EVO 2015; if it has the same excitement as Melee by the time the tournament ends, people will be going so much harder for this game and 2016 will look even sweeter.

 

[Terotrous]

Inb4ReggieWinsEVO2015

EVO's body wasn't ready.

 

[kazrisk]

Knew
Didn't know

This changes everything. Hopefully they stay true to their word. Mew2King and ZeRo are big enough already, but Ken and Mang0 would add a whole new level of credibility to the scene.

Yeah I wish I could directly link what Ken and his brother said, but here are some of the tweets I could find from Mang0.

https://twitter.com/C9Mang0/status/484826014803959809
https://twitter.com/C9Mang0/status/487138482372898817

I think they will stay true to their word, Mew2King still supports Brawl and Project M, Brawl not as much but definitely Project M.
Ken has become somewhat rusty with Melee, and while he is still incredible at it I know that he is excited for Smash 4 and the fresh opportunity it will offer. Here is a tweet of his reaction to Lucina, seems like he is excited to try to main her. https://twitter.com/LiquidKen/status/488685097403420672 He also said several times at E3 how fun the game was and that he was excited to play more, which seems like that would be an obvious reaction but he could have easily been dismissive of it or indifferent.
KDJ I heard from Ken's brother on a stream is just getting somewhat tired of Melee and is excited for the change, although that was heard from Ken's brother who probably heard it from Ken, who then said it on a stream, so there is room for misinterpretation. However KDJ plays Project M and would surely stick with Smash 4 for awhile, he expressed at E3 how interested he was in Rosalina's mechanics and all the new characters.
Mang0 will stick with it I think if the competition and money is there. Not to say he doesn't simply love Smash but he is using the money for a baby now and needs to earn something from his competitive play. I think with Nintendo sponsoring EVO and pushing the competitive scene of Smash in general, Smash 4 will be the easiest Smash yet to promote and host tourneys for. Add that to his excitement in those tweets and I think we have his support for awhile.

Think Smash 4 has a bright future ahead for it.

 

[Big-Cat]

Difference is that Street Fighter is the biggest and most popular main line traditional fighting series and Smash is an outsider in the FGC. We shouldn't expect more than one Smash game in the main lineup.

Yeah right. If there's enough demand, it'll happen. It's not like Smash is hated by the FGC like it used to be. In fact, if Smash 4 really that different from previous games, it's be good to have both.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I just want to make a note: I'm suggesting the idea of both for a year (which is obviously not up to me but rather word of god) to make Smash 4 more smooth sailing. That way, if one fails, there's still something to fall back on when bringing Smash 4 back. I can see how that viewpoint isn't shared still and I can see problems coming across from many different angles. I think Melee would definitely still be fine as a side tournament and at the very least, Melee will get side treatment while Smash 4 will get main stage.

Difference is that Street Fighter is the biggest and most popular main line traditional fighting series and Smash is an outsider in the FGC. We shouldn't expect more than one Smash game in the main lineup.

Okay, and Smash is still the third most popular game there along with people wanting PM last year and the Vs series (The second most popular ones) have been known for having at least 2 games at a time around. those views man. The money speaks for all, and if the money (views, attendance, etc) is there, why deny people out of that? That doesn't sound like good business.

Because the first year at CoT4 and at Genesis 1 melee pushed out brawl finals till 2 am in a hotel room and off the main stage. This happened all over the country too when I went tournaments in AZ brawl didn't end till 4 a.m. It was down right abusive.

Maybe this won't happen again but no one ever saw any reason to stop before so I don't see why they would change their behavior when it's so beneficial to them.

Uh... You doubt how EVO is ran. Unless they share 90% of the same attendee's (Even then, PM side tournament happened, and even then if that were to happen, we'd just go all Smash 4)

I can understand this concern as a whole, but that's not what I'd be looking at as the problem. I just specifically said EVO, *not* other tournaments. What other tournaments do with Melee is not of my concern. I'm sure Melee will be in a better position than Brawl/64 for years to come.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm surprised PM side tournament happened considering what Nintendo said about PM.

 

[greenluigiman2]

I'm surprised PM side tournament happened considering what Nintendo said about PM.

I wasn't aware that Nintendo could actually talk about PM.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I wasn't aware that Nintendo could actually talk about PM.

They did with Prog, they said they know of it abd actually kind if like.

But they can't talk or support it which is why I thought a PM side tournament wouldn't happen.