Smash Wii U [Sm4sh Mods] (Unofficial) Patch 1.1.7: The Fan Patch [Discontinued. See Updated Thread for details]

[Deleted member]

On Cloud:

Down Tilt:

• Leg Intangibility removed. (It was redundant, as it was on the wrong leg)

His back leg is bent and invulnerable to make the animation look better, they didn't accidentally apply the intangibility to the wrong leg, trying to make it a disjoint lol. Plus, even if the intangibility changed legs, his knee would be easier to hit than it should be (his animation would have to be changed accordingly, making it look worse).

 

[anas abou]

If I may suggest a change, I feel like Ryu's end lag after throwing hadouken is a little long. Honestly, it's even longer than it is in Street Fighter, and it's not even that good of a projectile. This leaves Ryu, VERY vulnerable after throwing a hadouken. Not to mention there can only be one thrown at a time. What I want is the end lag decreased. That's ALL I want changed on Ryu, I know he's on overall okay character, but I don't see why he needs so much end lag on Hadouken. It's much easier to avoid than the other projectiles.
So, please, decrease end lag.

ryu is top-tier, he doesn't have a great neutral game but if played optimally has arguably the best punish game, he's just technical no need for buffs.

 

[Halcy0n]

The main purpose of her DSmash is for it to be a "get-off-me" move rather than a kill move. Each move has a certain use you know; not all smash attacks would have a single purpose of being a KO-move.

Its weaker than brawl's and brawl's was really weak.

 

[Combo Wombo]

I feel like we should establish the characters that WONT be buffed. So Cloud, Diddy, Sheik, Rosalina, Mario, Ryu, ZSS, Sonic, Mewtwo and Fox. A YouTuber called MagicScrumpy talked about how instead of balancing the roster, PM just gave every character a great tool. The best thing would be to get everyone mid tier, around Luigi or Lucas.

 

[Frihetsanka]

I feel like we should establish the characters that WONT be buffed. So Cloud, Diddy, Sheik, Rosalina, Mario, Ryu, ZSS, Sonic, Mewtwo and Fox. A YouTuber called MagicScrumpy talked about how instead of balancing the roster, PM just gave every character a great tool. The best thing would be to get everyone mid tier, around Luigi or Lucas.

https://smashboards.com/tiers/#WiiU

I'd argue that anyone in S to C definitely shouldn't get buffed. D probably shouldn't get buffed either. The E characters aren't that bad either, and maybe Wario could get some small buffs, and maybe Bowser and Ike, but the others are pretty good anyway. F, G, and H could all get some buffs.

That leaves 19 characters that could get some buffs. Plus Miis, I suppose, although I'm not sure if they should bother, since you could just "buff" Miis by allowing customs and/or size changes.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

https://smashboards.com/tiers/#WiiU

I'd argue that anyone in S to C definitely shouldn't get buffed. D probably shouldn't get buffed either. The E characters aren't that bad either, and maybe Wario could get some small buffs, and maybe Bowser and Ike, but the others are pretty good anyway. F, G, and H could all get some buffs.

That leaves 19 characters that could get some buffs. Plus Miis, I suppose, although I'm not sure if they should bother, since you could just "buff" Miis by allowing customs and/or size changes.

As much as I disagree with that tier list, it does accurately show who needs improvements, though it show be spread out to which character needs changes at all, rather then the low tiers receive more buffs then the mid tier.

Also Mii Brawler might be fine with customs & size changes, but Swordfighter & Gunner are just painfully average with them so they could use some buffs.

 

[anas abou]

https://smashboards.com/tiers/#WiiU

I'd argue that anyone in S to C definitely shouldn't get buffed. D probably shouldn't get buffed either. The E characters aren't that bad either, and maybe Wario could get some small buffs, and maybe Bowser and Ike, but the others are pretty good anyway. F, G, and H could all get some buffs.

That leaves 19 characters that could get some buffs. Plus Miis, I suppose, although I'm not sure if they should bother, since you could just "buff" Miis by allowing customs and/or size changes.

i suggest that high and top tiers don't get touched, while mid, low and bottom tiers get buffed according to tier placement, scrumpy's balance philosophy of nerfing top tiers doesn't work in sm4sh since top tiers are already nerfed.

 

[William5000000]

That's just part of the game though. Sure it sucks, but it kinda makes sense for the guy who was offstage before the guy who was launched upward. And if anything should be changed it should be the instant upward KOs being removed.

I wanted an option to turn Star KOs/Screen KOs on or off at the menu to be added, but I don't think that's going to happen.

 

[Combo Wombo]

How about aerial rest endlag is reduced? You have a better chance of recovering and star/screen kos won't matter.

Update: I just realized that cloud and mewtwo are getting buffed. No one above C tier should be buffed.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Update: I just realized that cloud and mewtwo are getting buffed. No one above C tier should be buffed.

To be fair, Mewtwo still has some flaws that need to be worked on. Its grab range is the most notable issue.

 

[anas abou]

To be fair, Mewtwo still has some flaws that need to be worked on. Its grab range is the most notable issue.

having flaws is good game design.

 

[Halcy0n]

having flaws is good game design.

I believe you meant " having weaknesses is good game design"

A flaw would be something like Roy fair auto-canceling after the FAF.

 

[anas abou]

I believe you meant " having weaknesses is good game design"

A flaw would be something like Roy fair auto-canceling after the FAF.

Mario & Sonic Guy's the one who sees mewtwo's grab range as a flaw i see it as a weakness but whatever floats his boat, terms don't matter as much as mutual understanding, i like to use terms other people use to describe within subjects and i generally refrain from correcting them as long as the general meaning stays is clear, that's how i would talk to someone in person, and it also feels more wholesome to me that way online.

 

[Vardamas]

Idk if someone has said this already, but perhaps give Greninja a faster foward-air?

 

[Frihetsanka]

Idk if someone has said this already, but perhaps give Greninja a faster foward-air?

Greninja is arguably high tier though.

 

[Gigan X3]

Forward Air is fast, what it has is a lot of ending lag. It doesn't really need correction.

 

[anas abou]

i suggest giving lucina a better up-throw kill to counter act her lack of tippers, as she currently has much less kill potential.

• KBG 120 > 135
• angle 93 > 90

Forward Air is fast, what it has is a lot of ending lag. It doesn't really need correction.

its actually pretty slow, it comes out later than ganon's f-air, but it can be comboed into so it doesn't need buffs.

also do you think some characters should be reworked ??

 

[Combo Wombo]

To be fair, Mewtwo still has some flaws that need to be worked on. Its grab range is the most notable issue.

But that's because at high-ish percents up throw kills. That would be like giving pre-patch Luigi increased grab range. I'm not saying mewtwo is grab to win but up throw is his most reliable kill option.

Also, what do you think about my rest idea?

 

[anas abou]

But that's because at high-ish percents up throw kills. That would be like giving pre-patch Luigi increased grab range. I'm not saying mewtwo is grab to win but up throw is his most reliable kill option.

Also, what do you think about my rest idea?

your rest idea is problematic since most rests are done after a short-hop.

 

[Combo Wombo]

What about changing the angle at which star/screen kos occur?

 

[anas abou]

What about changing the angle at which star/screen kos occur?

why not make the knocked opponent have the ability to choose being star KOd by pressing button right before touching the blastzone ??

 

[Combo Wombo]

why not make the knocked opponent have the ability to choose being star KOd by pressing button right before touching the blastzone ??

But then people can choose to have the star ko and Jiggs will still lose

 

[JustAnotherSaltyPaluMain]

why not make the knocked opponent have the ability to choose being star KOd by pressing button right before touching the blastzone ??

Beause modding it would actually be impossible.

 

[anas abou]

Beause modding it would actually be impossible.

But then people can choose to have the star ko and Jiggs will still lose

that whole thing was a sarcastic response

 

[Combo Wombo]

Or rest just doesn't cause star kos

 

[William5000000]

Or rest just doesn't cause star kos

Here is the link to prove that Star KOs/Screen KOs are very rare and random:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/632937-super-smash-bros-for-nintendo-3ds/70245902

One person has actually tried to get Star KOs/Screen KOs. Out of 110 attempts (that being upward Blast KOs), only 4 Star KOs and 2 Screen KOs occurred. There's like 20% chance of Star KOs/Screen KOs occurring, and 80% chance of upward Blast KOs occurring. That's how bad it is. So bad that it heavily affects Jigglypuff's chances of winning. Jigglypuff's Rest is heavily relied on to score KOs on-stage (sometimes off-stage, but that's only if one wants an upward Blast KO to occur). But because Star KOs/Screen KOs are often very rare and random, Jigglypuff can either get severely punished or revenge KO'd on-stage. And that's why Jigglypuff is at the very bottom of the tier list. Jigglypuff is the biggest example of them on-stage (and off-stage).

Despite what Derpnaster said about Star KOs/Screen KOs not being truly random, I cannot help but think they're still random. Personally, I've always liked those KOs, mostly Star KOs. They're the best part about playing "Smash" games. I've been getting those KOs since "Smash 64". Without those KOs, playing "Smash" won't ever be the same again. I wish there was an option for that at the menu, but there isn't.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I do know that Star KOs will only happen at certain damage percentages, since they never happen at all if the target has 999% damage.

 

[Combo Wombo]

What if characters died as soon as they went off the top and the animation affects nothing?

 

[anas abou]

What if characters died as soon as they went off the top and the animation affects nothing?

the animation would still affect when the character spawns, you can't have him spawn while he's getting star ko'd.

 

[Combo Wombo]

the animation would still affect when the character spawns, you can't have him spawn while he's getting star ko'd.

but in last stock situations Jiggs would win

 

[Steeler]

I really feel like customs should be balanced out first, because a customs meta gives lots of characters options that they kind of need. Consider the case of Ganondorf. Is he balanced with customs on? Maybe, maybe not. But they definitely buff his recovery a ton, which is one of his biggest weaknesses. Making Ganon a viable character without customs is gonna take a LOT more work on other aspects of the character... additionally, because the customs meta is basically dead, it's gonna give this project a lot more legs in the long run if you can more distinctly separate it from the "vanilla" meta besides saying it's a fan patch. Say it's customs with minor tweaks to characters... SPEAKING of which, is it possible to give DLC characters customs?

 

[Combo Wombo]

I really feel like customs should be balanced out first, because a customs meta gives lots of characters options that they kind of need. Consider the case of Ganondorf. Is he balanced with customs on? Maybe, maybe not. But they definitely buff his recovery a ton, which is one of his biggest weaknesses. Making Ganon a viable character without customs is gonna take a LOT more work on other aspects of the character... additionally, because the customs meta is basically dead, it's gonna give this project a lot more legs in the long run if you can more distinctly separate it from the "vanilla" meta besides saying it's a fan patch. Say it's customs with minor tweaks to characters... SPEAKING of which, is it possible to give DLC characters customs?

I'm not one of the programmers but you're asking a LOT.

 

[anas abou]

I really feel like customs should be balanced out first, because a customs meta gives lots of characters options that they kind of need. Consider the case of Ganondorf. Is he balanced with customs on? Maybe, maybe not. But they definitely buff his recovery a ton, which is one of his biggest weaknesses. Making Ganon a viable character without customs is gonna take a LOT more work on other aspects of the character... additionally, because the customs meta is basically dead, it's gonna give this project a lot more legs in the long run if you can more distinctly separate it from the "vanilla" meta besides saying it's a fan patch. Say it's customs with minor tweaks to characters... SPEAKING of which, is it possible to give DLC characters customs?

it would be cool if we could make some custom moves default specials with modding, that would be a great way to not only buff palutena but make her more fun to play.

 

[Steeler]

I'm not one of the programmers but you're asking a LOT.

Honestly, I think it's more work to balance the game without customs. I'm not saying make every custom viable and good. I'm saying nerf the customs that made people want to end that meta in the first place, and then buff characters off the assumption that they have their full special movesets at their disposal. Unless you're referring to DLC customs? In which case, yeah, maybe that isn't feasible but I don't know anything about how that is coded.

 

[Combo Wombo]

Honestly, I think it's more work to balance the game without customs. I'm not saying make every custom viable and good. I'm saying nerf the customs that made people want to end that meta in the first place, and then buff characters off the assumption that they have their full special movesets at their disposal. Unless you're referring to DLC customs? In which case, yeah, maybe that isn't feasible but I don't know anything about how that is coded.

Yea I meant dlc customs. I think you're right about some moves ending that meta but another problem is you have to unlock every single move. Also for dlc customs could happen but it would prolly be the same animation with different attributes.

 

[Emblem Lord]

ryu is top-tier, he doesn't have a great neutral game but if played optimally has arguably the best punish game, he's just technical no need for buffs.

Lol Wut.

Ryu's hadouken is 58 frames total.

That is not ok and anyone that understands the game on a decent competitive level, understands that this is a huge part of why Ryu's neutral is average at best.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Lol Wut.

Ryu's hadouken is 58 frames total.

That is not ok and anyone that understands the game on a decent competitive level, understands that this is a huge part of why Ryu's neutral is average at best.

Anyone who understands the game on a decent level, understands that Ryu is one of the best characters in the game, and that buffing him would be idiotic.

 

[Emblem Lord]

You say he is one of the best?

How? Show me. Which top tiers does he beat? What characters are relevant that he has a good record against at high level.

Stop looking at Ryu in a vacuum and look at how he interacts with the cast.

 

[anas abou]

Lol Wut.

Ryu's hadouken is 58 frames total.

That is not ok and anyone that understands the game on a decent competitive level, understands that this is a huge part of why Ryu's neutral is average at best.

i said "he doesn't have a great neutral game" so why are you telling me "Ryu's neutral is average at best" you misread my post, you are basically agreeing with me, besides ryu's great punish game means he can't be lower than high tier, and i don't believe high tiers need buffs.

 

[Tocaraca2]

The problem with the upward KO stuff is that after a character has gone off the top, there's a random chance when his stock is actually taken. What should happen is that the stock is taken when they hit the blast zone, and that all KOs are star/screen KOs and they die before the KO animation rather than after it. This means that the respawn time would have to be increased so they they don't respawn before the animation finishes.
This means that Jigglypuff cannot get punished after a Rest kill, and that she never loses in a last-stock situation where she rests someone off-stage.