Smash Wii U [Sm4sh Mods] (Unofficial) Patch 1.1.7: The Fan Patch [Discontinued. See Updated Thread for details]

[Shaz130]

You mean a mod that makes Kirby restore more health from eating food via "Inhale"?

Yes exactly.

 

[Yoshister]

Yes exactly.

Not to be rude but...

Why do you want a mod for that? So random.
Also I don't anyone knows how to change that sort of thing.



Also also, this is a thread for a balance mod.
Generally it's more on 1v1 stuff.

 

[Shaz130]

Not to be rude but...

Why do you want a mod for that? So random.
Also I don't anyone knows how to change that sort of thing.



Also also, this is a thread for a balance mod.
Generally it's more on 1v1 stuff.

Well there are plenty of unreal mods out already. I don't see whats so wrong with asking for that?


I need it for the Kirby appetizer challenge. Which seems to be a **** to me.

 

[Yoshister]

Well there are plenty of unreal mods out already. I don't see whats so wrong with asking for that?

I never said there was anything wrong with it, I was just wondering why you'd want something like that. :V
I don't really know how to do such a thing, but I doubt it'd be hard.

Also I'd like to know what these "unreal" mods are. I don't think I've heard that term used to describe a Smash mod before.

I need it for the Kirby appetizer challenge. Which seems to be a **** to me.

What?

 

[Shaz130]

I never said there was anything wrong with it, I was just wondering why you'd want something like that. :V
I don't really know how to do such a thing, but I doubt it'd be hard.

Understood.

Also I'd like to know what these "unreal" mods are. I don't think I've heard that term used to describe a Smash mod before.

Well have you ever seen a Mario use his water gun to blast many characters off the field before? Or Ganondorf doing KOs with one punch?

What?

Do you remember that event that requires you to eat food to recover your health from 140% in under two minutes?

 

[tiberus8]

Everyone, I just came up with an idea that I think will make most people happy. I spoke to KingJigglypuff about this, but I might as well post it here.

My original idea for patch 1.1.7 was for an option to turn Star KOs/Screen KOs on or off to be added in the menu. However, that won't be added. So my new idea is this: Since competitive players always seem to play in timed matches, have only upward Blast KOs occur in timed matches (with the exception of Jigglypuff's Rest, which forces a Star KO/Screen KO only on-stage). Either that or have only upward Blast KOs occur when there's only 30 seconds left in timed matches, as Sakurai originally said (that turned out false). For everything else, have Star KOs/Screen KOs occur and not upward Blast KOs.

For those that want only upward Blast KOs to occur, play in timed matches. For those that want Star KOs/Screen KOs to occur, don't play in timed matches. If and when this gets patched, I really hope this idea makes everyone or most people happy. I don't want to hear about the debate on Star KOs/Screen KOs and upward Blast KOs in the future.

i think thats a wonderful idea. im tired of the randomness of those kos. some people like star/screen kos, some people dont like them.

 

[Yoshister]

Well have you ever seen a Mario use his water gun to blast many characters off the field before? Or Ganondorf doing KOs with one punch?

That's just basic hitbox editing though.
What you're asking for isn't.

l
Do you remember that event that requires you to eat food to recover your health from 140% in under two minutes?

No, because I don't play event mode.

Sounds pretty easy though.

 

[anas abou]

Nope.
All of his water attacks either have no effect, have the Slash effect, or are a windbox.
http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/mastercore3/dump/160/gekkouga
Water is effect 11.

actually greninja does use the water effect mainly in his n-air.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Water

other character use it too but to a lesser extent.

 

[Yoshister]

actually greninja does use the water effect mainly in his n-air.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Water

other character use it too but to a lesser extent.

Well pardon my confusion (It's not very noticeable in-game due to all but one of the water attacks being pushing moves).
Effect 11 has a more noticeable effect that looks like water (Said effect goes unused).

Use the Water effect more then.
No reason for it to not be on his other water attacks.

Shouldn't it be on his jab, smashes, fair, and Bair?
His arms are covered in water during the swipes and slashes, why don't they have he Water effect?

 

[ElectroLightning]

Had a few questions and a few ideas.

Is there a possibility that Wolf or the sort can be brought back and patched? Updates do bring new characters...

Could we add an extra Taunt to each character? The GamePad and GameCube controllers have 4 Taunt buttons.

Luigi's Forward Smash tilted up freezes the opponent, it could be used as a combo starter.

Luigi's Forward Smash tilted down buries the opponent, it would combo very nicely into Deadly Fire Uppercut of Deadly Deadliness.

Luigi's Down Air's sweetspot creates a Darkness effect.

 

[Shaz130]

That's just basic hitbox editing though.
What you're asking for isn't.


No, because I don't play event mode.

Sounds pretty easy though.

You sound way to experinced. Are you a hidden modder?

 

[Yoshister]

You sound way to experinced. Are you a hidden modder?

I've been modding for three months now.

I was part of the Project Sm4sh "dev" team before Project Sm4sh dissipated.

I'd attempt to start it up again, but Patch 1.1.7 has effectively the same goal and most of us that worked on Project Sm4sh got on board with Patch 1.1.7.

Is there a possibility that Wolf or the sort can be brought back and patched? Updates do bring new characters...
Could we add an extra Taunt to each character? The GamePad and GameCube controllers have 4 Taunt buttons.

Unfortunately it is not possible to do any of this...



Yet.

Luigi's Forward Smash tilted up freezes the opponent, it could be used as a combo starter.
Luigi's Forward Smash tilted down buries the opponent, it would combo very nicely into Deadly Fire Uppercut of Deadly Deadliness.

I'm pretty confident this would be broken.

It'd be pretty funny though.

 

[Eugene Wang]

While we're suggesting stuff, can we mellow out Lucario's aura growth (and of course adjust the starting multiplier to compensate) so it isn't as volatility-creating?

 

[Didier337]

I'm curious if you can fix Ganon's D-smash? When he hits his opponent too close, they'll fall out foward causing the second hit of D-smash to miss.

Also it would be nice if Ganon's B-air had a bit bigger hit box and auto cancel window to apply safe pressure and hit shorter characters.

 

[MarioMeteor]

That's just basic hitbox editing though.
What you're asking for isn't.


No, because I don't play event mode.

Sounds pretty easy though.

Oh, you couldn't be more wrong. That event is frustration incarnate. Play it on Hard if you ever feel like cursing something out.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Oh, you couldn't be more wrong. That event is frustration incarnate. Play it on Hard if you ever feel like cursing something out.

It's also one of those events where you should not be wasting a Golden Hammer on, as you actually have to complete its reward condition in order to complete a challenge that's immune to Golden Hammers.

 

[MarioMeteor]

It's also one of those events where you should not be wasting a Golden Hammer on, as you actually have to complete its reward condition in order to complete a challenge that's immune to Golden Hammers.

And even if that weren't the case, there are still even harder Challenges that are more worthy of a Golden Hammer.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

And even if that weren't the case, there are still even harder Challenges that are more worthy of a Golden Hammer.

Clear Solo Classic at intensity 9.0 within 12 minutes as Marth? You've got to be joking there.

This is getting off-topic though, so let's just drop the subject right here.

 

[BJN39]

I'm pretty confident this would be broken.

It'd be pretty funny though.

Why not? 90% of these suggested changes are already incredibly broken.


This patch is basically turning into "Sm4sh minus"

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Why not? 90% of these suggested changes are already incredibly broken.


This patch is basically turning into "Sm4sh minus"

That's largely why I stopped trying to give out suggestions.

Everyone wants to make their character OP instead of actually aiming for a targeted range (while claiming that they're just "small buffs" that their character "really needs"), and then cry at the suggestion of lightly nerfing the characters above said target range because its "unfun" (But giving Luigi his freaking throw combos back is "fun" for everyone else? Really?)

People on the modding team for this: you really need to set out in stone in your own terms what you're aiming for, what you are and aren't willing to do, and how you all plan to tackle it. Its just a crapshoot of worthless suggestions atm. Your aren't going to get much of anything worthwhile until you do so. Gotta make it your guys' hack instead of going "so what do all of you want in a hack?". Too many different ranges you can aim for. Grab the (somewhat outdate) official tier list, pick a range of lets say 5 characters, and go "we want to fit the whole cast into that range as much as possible".

You also gotta be willing to call out people and go "no, those suggestions are absolutely crazy". Because a lot of people are absolutely horrible at trying to mentally balance a whole cast against each other. Its not an easy thing to do in general and its going to take trial and error no matter what but maaaaan some are not even in the right state let alone still in the ballpark.

 

[Frihetsanka]

That's largely why I stopped trying to give out suggestions.

Everyone wants to make their character OP instead of actually aiming for a targeted range (while claiming that they're just "small buffs" that their character "really needs"), and then cry at the suggestion of lightly nerfing the characters above said target range because its "unfun" (But giving Luigi his freaking throw combos back is "fun" for everyone else? Really?)

Yeah, I really do agree that many people try (perhaps subconsciously) to buff their characters way beyond the Pikachu-tier level. This applies to nerfs as well though, I've yet seen any nerfs that I agree with. Let's just skip nerfs and focus on buffs, shall we?

I've seen people suggest buffs for high-mid tier characters that are way bigger than the buffs characters like Zelda and King Dedede got. The crew seems fairly reasonable in the buffs though, so I hope they won't overbuff any character; if they do we'll call them out on it.

 

[anas abou]

i think this mod should be balanced around a base like pit / as the honest well rounded almost high tier fighters, anyone above them should be nerfed to their level while not limiting their options just giving them less reward, while anyone below them should be buffed to their level while not making them overrelient on some buffed options, i believe this will result in a more diverse interesting roster, this will also greatly simplify the balancing process.

also we shouldn't use the official 4BR tier list as it's vastly outdated, i feel the smash reddit tier list (while not perfect) gives a much more accurate idea to the current meta : http://imgur.com/gallery/DeiY361

 

[Yoshister]

Why not? 90% of these suggested changes are already incredibly broken.


This patch is basically turning into "Sm4sh minus"

Is that something we should support, or something we should stop before the whole mod is a broken mess?

A lot of people here have suggested changes that make characters far too good to be anywhere near "balanced" (Hopefully you people know who you are).

Standards should be kept for changes.
If you're going to submit changes, at least try them out in-game (Against a CPU at least).
If not, you get broken messes.



With a lot of testing and rewrites, you can actually create well balanced changes.

It's something I can confirm from experience.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

All this talk about how people keep over buffing their characters reminds me on how basically no one has said anything about my suggestions.

I guess I'm in the clear by definition.

 

[ElectroLightning]

I've been modding for three months now.

I was part of the Project Sm4sh "dev" team before Project Sm4sh dissipated.

I'd attempt to start it up again, but Patch 1.1.7 has effectively the same goal and most of us that worked on Project Sm4sh got on board with Patch 1.1.7.

Unfortunately it is not possible to do any of this...



Yet.

I'm pretty confident this would be broken.

It'd be pretty funny though.

Thought so.

 

[Yoshister]

All this talk about how people keep over buffing their characters reminds me on how basically no one has said anything about my suggestions.

I guess I'm in the clear by definition.

Let's take a look at them.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Let's take a look at them.

Here you go.

-Dr. Mario: http://smashboards.com/posts/21200043/

-Bowser: http://smashboards.com/posts/21245473/

-Wario: http://smashboards.com/posts/21264836/

 

[Yoshister]

Here you go.

-Dr. Mario: http://smashboards.com/posts/21200043/

-Bowser: http://smashboards.com/posts/21245473/

-Wario: http://smashboards.com/posts/21264836/

I think I covered Doc quite the well, but

When I get home, I'll read through your suggestions and write my thoughts on them.

 

[merayjr95]

So I've been viewing this thread for a while and I've decided to post some minor buffs for Zelda that I wrote down a while back to take her from literally last on the tier list to a slightly more balanced position. I have a decent understanding of game mechanics and physics, but no way to test any of these suggestions. Also, I see there are some suggested Zelda changes already, so I'm just going to post mine as is and maybe we can combine the two later. I dunno. Anyways, ta da.

Spoiler: Spoiler

Attributes

• Weight 85 --> 90 (this makes her 1 unit heavier than Peach, the air Princess)
• Walk Speed 0.87 --> 0.93
• Run Speed 1.3 --> 1.4 (slightly slower than Peach, slightly faster than Link)
• Air Speed 1.04 --> 1.1 (slight buff to help with Nair combos and spacing of sweetspots of Fair and Bair)

Frame Data

• Jab Active Frames 11/13/15 --> 8/10/12; FAF 24 --> 21
• Dash Attack Active Frames 6-7/8-10 --> 6-8/9-12; FAF 40 --> 37; Knockback (with late hit) 85/80 --> 90/85; KBG (with late hit) 70/50 --> 80/60
• Forward Tilt Damage 12/10/10 --> 14/11/11; FAF 38 --> 34
• Down Tilt damage 5.5 --> 6; FAF 25 --> 22
• Forward Smash Final Hitbox Damage 13 --> 14
• Down Smash Knockback 20/20 --> 30/30; FAF 38 --> 33; KBG 86/96 --> 91/101; Damage 12/10 --> 13/11
• Up Smash Angle 88 --> 90; FAF 64 --> 55; Final hit damage 5 --> 6
• Back Throw Damage 11 --> 12; Angle 45 --> 40; KB 80 --> 83, KBG 60 --> 70
  
• Up Throw Damage 11 --> 12; Angle 88 --> 90
• Neutral Air Damage 2.5/1.5 --> 2.5/2.5; FAF 51 --> 47; Landing Lag 19 --> 17; Autocancel 1-3, 38> --> 1-3, 34>
• Forward Air Sweetspot Frames 9 --> 9-10; Damage 20 --> 22
• Forward Air Late Frames 10-13 --> 11-14; Damage 4 --> 6
• Forward Air FAF 53 --> 45; Autocancel 1-3, 50> --> 1-3, 42>
• Forward Air Landing Lag 23 --> 18
• Back Air Sweetspot Frames 6 --> 6-7; Damage 20 --> 22
• Back Air Late Frames 7-9 --> 8-10; Damage 4 --> 6
• Back Air FAF 53 --> 45; Autocancel 1-3, 52> --> 1-3, 44>
• Back Air Landing Lag 25 --> 20
• Up Air Active Frames 14-16 --> 14-17; Damage 17 --> 18
  
• Up Air FAF 55 --> 45; Landing Lag 19 --> 14
• Down Air Sweetspot Frames 14 --> 13-14; Damage 16 --> 18; KBG 65 --> 90
• Down Air Late Frames 15-24 --> 15-25; Damage 5/4 --> 7/6
• Down Air FAF 45--> 40; Autocancel 1-3, 40> --> 1-3, 35>
• Down Air Landing Lag 18 --> 8
• Nayru's Love: Hitboxes Active 13-24 --> 12-23; Intangible 5-15 --> 4-15; Reflects 5-43 --> 5-40
• Nayru's Love Final Hit Frame 28 --> 27; FAF 60 --> 45 (lower cooldown means her reflector isn't the most punishable reflector in the game)
• Farore's Wind FAF 81 --> 61

Things that I don't know how to put into numbers but should still be accounted for:

• Reduced endlag on Din's Fire release
• Eliminate sourspot of Din's Fire
• Reduce endlag on Phantom Strike release

All of my proposed changes I don't think are too extreme, however I have no way to test them, so I kept the majority of the knockback and damage changes small. Mainly I just tried to rework her frame data and tweak her physical attributes, which she suffers from both poorly. Lemme know what you guys think.

 

[RedMarf78]

I'll just say this right off the bat; why would you make the sweetspot of lightning kick easier to hit AND increase the power? The move is already perfectly strong power wise. While I thinks the kicks should be easier to hit I think that along with this the power of the move should stay the same or be reduced. I just don't see the logic behind making it even stronger.

Here you go.

-Dr. Mario: http://smashboards.com/posts/21200043/

-Bowser: http://smashboards.com/posts/21245473/

-Wario: http://smashboards.com/posts/21264836/

I'm not going to comment on all your changes because it's really late where I am right now and cause yoshister already took that job but I'll note one thing. Based on your wario changes, I don't think what you understand what weight dependency on throws does. It doesn't effect when the throw will kill but makes the throw slower against heavier character. Essentially weight dependency on throws just make it harder to combo heavies with that throw.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I actually "decreased" Zelda's falling speed, since when you look at Melee and Brawl, she typically has one of the slowest falling speed values of any fighter. Lower falling speed would help with Zelda's air game as well, though it can also make her more vulnerable to getting Star KO'd.

Anyway, I lowered Zelda's falling speed to 1.22, making her fall slower than Kirby, while still falling faster than Rosalina.

 

[Lorde]

Lowering Zelda's fall speed would be a straight-up nerf

She already has enough trouble landing; she doesn't need any more

But her entire design is such a mess that I don't think a few buffs to some of her numbers would ever make her a viable character

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Lowering Zelda's fall speed would be a straight-up nerf

She already has enough trouble landing; she doesn't need any more

A falling speed increase/decrease has pros and cons, no matter how you slice and dice it.

Being a slow faller improves recovery, enables the fighter to utilize his/her air game longer, and is less vulnerable to combos, but at the cost of having a weaker vertical endurance.

Whereas, being a fast faller gives a fighter better vertical endurance, but is more vulnerable to combos, a more limited air game, and recovery can also be hindered as well.

There's a pretty good reason why Thistle Jump is treated as a "positive" bonus effect, while Anchor Jump is treated as a "negative" bonus effect; the former is more helpful than the latter, as Anchor Jump is even more detrimental to fighters when you take into account the additional 1.4x gravity increase.

 

[Lorde]

I'm aware of what fall speed does lol

Zelda is already a super floaty character. Making her even floatier would only compound her landing weakness and make it even easier to kill her off the top.

I'm baffled as to how you looked at the mess that is Zelda and thought, "Wow, I bet she needs to be even floatier!1!11"

If you want to give her a better air game, buff her air speed lmao

And I'll ignore the comments on custom equipment because it's completely irrelevant and has no bearing on anything

 

[Shaz130]

I've been modding for three months now.

I was part of the Project Sm4sh "dev" team before Project Sm4sh dissipated.

I'd attempt to start it up again, but Patch 1.1.7 has effectively the same goal and most of us that worked on Project Sm4sh got on board with Patch 1.1.7.

Sounds sweet!

I just got my windows laptop by finding it from somewhere. I am about to try out this mod thing.

 

[merayjr95]

Looks like lots of people are hung up on the falling speed thing which I was too. It's such a fickle thing that I wasn't really sure whether or not it should be included. I'm thinking that the few units of weight increase should help slightly with her survival vertically, which would help her be juggled less. Also, increasing the frame window from 1 frame to 2 frames for the sweetspot and a 2% damage buff with no other KB or KBG changes I think is fine because her kicks are such high risk but with meh rewards for them. she can't even full hop a f-air or b-air without getting caught in the window of the extreme landing lag which rivals link's d-air's landing lag.
if we were to buff her air speed, what do you think would be an appropriate value to change it to? currently she's at 1.04 which is 26/27th place. 1.1 or above to me would be too drastic but I have no way of testing anything so I can't tell for sure.
and i considered changing her air speed but was unsure of how that would mess with her nair strings that she's pretty good at.
also unless im mistaken, I changed it to increase her falling speed to more mid range, not make her more floaty. if my numbers show otherwise, then just inverse them but I'm pretty sure the higher the value for fall speed/fast fall speed, the faster someone falls.

 

[Combo Wombo]

Bayonetta' dair could use some work. That and witch time were her only viable landing options until they made it where you can walk to the moon and back before she stands back up. Seriously it's like asking to be grabbed. Not to mention if witch time is baited it's not safe either.

Also a cool name for this project would be Smash 4: Project Meta because it's making the game what the meta game wishes it was in some ways.

 

[Green L]

Vanilla Sm4sh luigi is a mario knockoff. Competitively, there's no reason to play him over mario. That's the goal of my suggestions. Slightly better airspeed and traction won't help but remove luigi's weaknesses which is not good design. I understand my hypocrisy but Dk and Bowser being one trick ponies is ignored but it's ok because they suck without it? That's exactly why you should remove their pre patch diddy combos, to force bowser and Dk to use more of their moveset.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

If you want to give her a better air game, buff her air speed lmao

I did raise Zelda's air speed to 1.08, but what she "really" needs is sweetspot adjustments for her f-air and b-air.

 

[RosalinA]

I'm sorry if someone already said this but is there a way to turns bosses on and off in this patch?