Smash Wii U [Sm4sh Mods] (Unofficial) Patch 1.1.7: The Fan Patch [Discontinued. See Updated Thread for details]

[anas abou]

If footstools were removed?
Simply because Mewtwo actually gets something out of them, so removing them is a direct nerf to him.

Honestly if footstools were removed you would probably have to buff every character or at least every spike in the game to make up for the lack of downward kill options. Also note that footstooling has been in smash at least since Melee, Smash 4 is just the first time they were set to the jump button.

they didn't remove footstooling in PM even tho that mod was staying true to melee, sm4sh players adapted too, footstooling is no longer that random mechanic that ****s up yoshi, it's an active part of the meta and valuable skill when mastered, don't make such a rash decision, you're probably not stupid TBH.


footstooling is not in melee in any way shape or form (maybe the luigi cutscene), it's also set to jump in brawl, fix up your facts.

 

[Deleted member]

Game and Watch needs buffs.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Taking her stupidly strong forward air, back air, neutral air and unpunishable down air into account, I think the nerf was fair. They probably didn't want her becoming the new Jigglypuff or something like that.

When I did my attribute changes, I didn't raise Peach's air speed to top 5 levels like in Melee. Just only high enough to compete with Greninja's air speed, while losing to Zero Suit Samus and Mii Brawler.

Also, calling the down aerial unpunishable may be a long stretch if fighters can still shield-grab Peach in between kicks.

 

[RedMarf78]

When I did my attribute changes, I didn't raise Peach's air speed to top 5 levels like in Melee. Just only high enough to compete with Greninja's air speed, while losing to Zero Suit Samus and Mii Brawler.

Also, calling the down aerial unpunishable may be a long stretch if fighters can still shield-grab Peach in between kicks.

How is it possible that you've ever been grabbed in between the kicks? There is a 6 frame gap between each kick and I don't think there any any grabs faster than frame 6. When you factor shieldstun into the mix peach's dair should be completely unpunishable unless your landing with it. (unless they predict what you do afterwards of course)

But peach does deserve an air speed buff; her whole gimmick is float and its a lot less threatening when she can only move towards you at 2mph. Float often just makes her any easy target from my experience vs peach.

 

[ZeusLink]

If we had to keep footstooling, it should be like PM's footstooling input. It should use the actual jump button only and hot the analog stick, to avoid those annoying accidental footstools.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

How is it possible that you've ever been grabbed in between the kicks? There is a 6 frame gap between each kick and I don't think there any any grabs faster than frame 6. When you factor shieldstun into the mix peach's dair should be completely unpunishable unless your landing with it. (unless they predict what you do afterwards of course)

I have seen Little Mac get shield-grabbed "while" in the middle of using his multi-hit standard attack. Of course, CPUs do better with catching vulnerable frames than human players.

 

[Combo Wombo]

Luigi needs faster grabs. I can't begin to tell how many times I've been grabbed simply because another character has a faster grab. Luigi is supposed to be a character that get most of his damage off with throws, but grabbing can be difficult when it's so slow.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Luigi needs faster grabs. I can't begin to tell how many times I've been grabbed simply because another character has a faster grab. Luigi is supposed to be a character that get most of his damage off with throws, but grabbing can be difficult when it's so slow.

I'd rather have better throws in general. Better down throw (maybe slightly worse than his old one), stronger up throw and/or back throw, you get the idea.

 

[2L8]

So I just downloaded some mods and started up ssb4 with the SD card in, but when I try to go anywhere with the character select screen a message pops up telling me that I need to take out my SD card before playing. If anyone can help I'd appreciate it.

 

[Combo Wombo]

I'd rather have better throws in general. Better down throw (maybe slightly worse than his old one), stronger up throw and/or back throw, you get the idea.

Why buff up throw when it is good for nothing except a decent 0% combo? Back throw doesn't need a buff as it's already a kill throw. Idk what could be buffed about down throw except maybe a damage increase..? He definitely needs better air mobility so he doesn't rely too much on Green Missile, as if someone is intentionally hit by it from far out, Luigi is gone.

 

[Furret24]

Luigi needs faster grabs. I can't begin to tell how many times I've been grabbed simply because another character has a faster grab. Luigi is supposed to be a character that get most of his damage off with throws, but grabbing can be difficult when it's so slow.

It's not because his grabs are slow (Luigi's grabs have minimally above average frame data as far as grabs go). You're likely having issues grabbing opponents because they're faster than your and/or because Luigi's grabs have merely "average" range.

 

[MarioMeteor]

It's not because his grabs are slow (Luigi's grabs have minimally above average frame data as far as grabs go). You're likely having issues grabbing opponents because they're faster than your and/or because Luigi's grabs have merely "average" range.

And good luck shield grabbing someone when you go sliding halfway the universe.

Why buff up throw when it is good for nothing except a decent 0% combo?

Because it's good for nothing but a decent 0% combo.

Back throw doesn't need a buff as it's already a kill throw.

Barely. It won't kill unless you're right at the ledge.

Idk what could be buffed about down throw except maybe a damage increase..?

A damage increase would be a nerf. What I mean is it should have lower knockback so that it can combo like it did way back then.

He definitely needs better air mobility so he doesn't rely too much on Green Missile, as if someone is intentionally hit by it from far out, Luigi is gone.

Yeah, that'd be nice.

 

[DJBor]

This is a real mod, right?
May I suggest that you buff Mii Swordfighter? Gunner and Brawler, even default, are tournament viable and easily place as mid tiers. Swordfighter, on the other hand, is possibly even worse than Jigglypuff. With some of the highest landing lag in the game, very difficult hitboxes, deceptively short range, almost no combos, and a mega-jumpsquat that leaves him/her wide open for about 8 frames before leaving the ground, it's almost impossible to play this character correctly. Can you fix it?
Also, Mii Gunner's smash attacks need some hitbox fixes. Up smash is OK, but the other two whiff sometimes.

 

[Yoshister]

This is a real mod, right?

Yes, it is.

May I suggest that you buff Mii Swordfighter? Gunner and Brawler, even default, are tournament viable and easily place as mid tiers. Swordfighter, on the other hand, is possibly even worse than Jigglypuff. With some of the highest landing lag in the game, very difficult hitboxes, deceptively short range, almost no combos, and a mega-jumpsquat that leaves him/her wide open for about 8 frames before leaving the ground, it's almost impossible to play this character correctly. Can you fix it?
Also, Mii Gunner's smash attacks need some hitbox fixes. Up smash is OK, but the other two whiff sometimes.

Could you please be more specific?

 

[Radical Larry]

I actually believe Sword Fighter isn't the problem at all; it's underutilization. I actually believe he's a solid middle, if not potentially unseen high tier character. If you play Sword Fighter optimally and use a medium to short size, the character turns from a bottom tier into what could be a high tier character if given time.

Sword Fighter does have some decent combo ability as a shorty, but a Medium Sword Fighter is best to be used for the better reach and better knockback. Back aerial is actually better than Cloud's B-Air, and that's what the character is, just a slightly worse Cloud. Also, Sword Fighter's meteor D-Air is a good off-stage move, and so is B-Air. If you're looking for a good character, Sword Fighter is a good character. Also, just pick 2133 or 2331.

Besides, I think the character's just being underutilized overall. People ban Mii characters, but when you look at after playing the character, you'll understand why people calling the Sword Fighter bad is bull. So no, the character doesn't need that many buffs outside of possibly Up Smash and the last hit of Down Aerial being a meteor hitbox truly.

 

[ZeusLink]

Luigi needs faster grabs. I can't begin to tell how many times I've been grabbed simply because another character has a faster grab. Luigi is supposed to be a character that get most of his damage off with throws, but grabbing can be difficult when it's so slow.

Believe me, it's worse when you're a Pacman player.

 

[Derpnaster]

Believe me, it's worse when you're a Pacman player.

Or pre 1.1.5 Greninja, or was it 1.1.4 where his grab got fixed.

 

[DJBor]

Oh wait... I was talking about pre-patch Swordfighter. LOL he's not bad, but he has some fatal flaws that the other two Miis don't, namely recovery and aspect faults. Here's where:

• Jump squat needs to be way shorter. 8 frames of startup just to jump is really unnecessary and proves to be Sword's greatest weakness.
  
• Dash needs less cooldown, so that players don't get a Dash Attack like 40 frames after stopping the dash.
  
• Side special needs lower gravity when charging and no helpless fall when missed. It's super unsafe in its current state. Also, it would be a lot better if it collided with walls instead of continuing, to improve recovery. That way, the next buff might be unneeded.
  
• Up special needs more reliable side-to-side movement. Doesn't have to be by much.
• Up smash needs a hitbox fix (specifically so that it can hit short characters)
  
• Dair should be a true meteor. At least to the caliber of Kirby's dair.
• Down smash may be fast, but it's not strong. It needs some more knockback growth.

 

[Gigan X3]

I agree that Mii Swordsman would definitely benefit from buffs to his frame data. His damage is not bad but his ending lag implies that he hits stronger and it's just not the case. So if we're not making him stronger, let's make him slightly safer like DJBor suggests.

 

[Radical Larry]

Oh wait... I was talking about pre-patch Swordfighter. LOL he's not bad, but he has some fatal flaws that the other two Miis don't, namely recovery and aspect faults. Here's where:

• Jump squat needs to be way shorter. 8 frames of startup just to jump is really unnecessary and proves to be Sword's greatest weakness.
  
• Dash needs less cooldown, so that players don't get a Dash Attack like 40 frames after stopping the dash.
  
• Side special needs lower gravity when charging and no helpless fall when missed. It's super unsafe in its current state. Also, it would be a lot better if it collided with walls instead of continuing, to improve recovery. That way, the next buff might be unneeded.
  
• Up special needs more reliable side-to-side movement. Doesn't have to be by much.
• Up smash needs a hitbox fix (specifically so that it can hit short characters)
  
• Dair should be a true meteor. At least to the caliber of Kirby's dair.
• Down smash may be fast, but it's not strong. It needs some more knockback growth.

I feel like you're basing this on the tallest and heaviest Sword Fighter. The statistics on an average sword fighter are different, and using a Small is significantly different:

• The only character in the game with a Frame 8 Jump squat is Bowser. Every character has 7 frames or less, and Mii Sword Fighter has 7 frames or below depending on which one you have.
• Dash Attack is actually comparable to Toon Link's Dash Attack in frame data, but is only 3 frames longer. If Toon Link's dash attack is viable, Sword's is, too. The angle should be changed from 60 degrees to 30 degrees since it doesn't have the combo ability necessary.
• That's Side Special 1, and it's not truly unsafe in its current state. The only way it's unsafe is if you're the kind of moron who charges and lets the opponent escape. The attack is a situational move and is good for netting KOs. As a recovery, it's very good too since you can't really hit him unless you have a sword.
• Just pick Hero's Spin. It saves you a lot more time than just using Neutral Special 1. Seriously, it's the best Up Special for Sword Fighter. That fixes part of the recovery issue by far.
• That, I have no problems agreeing with.
• Well, all hits do meteor, but the first hit is the best meteor. Maybe the first hit has higher KBG and the last hit has higher KBG at a meteor angle.
• Down Smash isn't meant to be a KO move at all...well...a powerful one. Its angle more than compensates for it when you consider that the angle of the first hit is 27 degrees, and the second hit is 32 degrees, which are both very viable semi-spiking angles for the attack's power. It definitely screws over opponents who can't recover well. In fact, just hit with the first hit alone and you can kill opponents at decent damages because it hits at 27 degrees.

 

[MarioMeteor]

• Dash Attack is actually comparable to Toon Link's Dash Attack in frame data, but is only 3 frames longer. If Toon Link's dash attack is viable, Sword's is, too. The angle should be changed from 60 degrees to 30 degrees since it doesn't have the combo ability necessary.

Not dash attack, dash. He's saying Swordfighter's dash's animation is too long.

 

[DJBor]

Dash cooldown, in particular, is what's too long.
Yes, I know Hero's Spin is the best choice. I'm well aware. I want a viable Default Swordfighter, so that the current regulation (only default size 1111) is acceptable.
Side special should at least have no helpless fall at the end. Pikachu's Skull Bash doesn't, and it's an even more useful move.
Default still has a 7 Frame jump squat, and enough startup on every aerial action that it leaves Default Sword wide open for about 9 frames every time he jumps.

Also, could you fix Mii Gunner's smash attack hitboxes? They don't connect properly, and it's killing what otherwise would be a great character.

 

[Radical Larry]

Not dash attack, dash. He's saying Swordfighter's dash's animation is too long.

Oh. Still, there are some characters who have a long ending animation to dash. It's prevalent on Bowser Jr. because when you think he stops, you can perform a Dash Attack.

Also, could you fix Mii Gunner's smash attack hitboxes? They don't connect properly, and it's killing what otherwise would be a great character.

Gunner's hitboxes being fixed won't fix the terrible character. I think if anything, Back Aerial and Forward Aerial should have their moves swapped to make Gunner's recovery immensely more powerful, and the Forward Aerial be better for killing.

Besides, if Gunner's going to get any hitbox changes, Gunner needs a U-Smash change so that all hits will link up, or just have a significantly faster rehit rate overall. As well, Forward Tilt needs some lower ending lag and some increased range, as well as a damage buff on early hit (9% => 11%). D-Air could start up faster (Frame 20 => Frame 16), and finally, Up Aerial's final hit can do more damage (3% => 5%) for better kill ability.

KuroganeHammer Yo, you forgot Gunner's Forward Tilt FAF. What the hell is with all the hiccups, dude? First Ganondorf's Dark Dive, now this? Come on man, lol.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

There's nothing wrong with dark dive and I don't care about mii gunner

 

[anas abou]

There's nothing wrong with dark dive and I don't care about mii gunner

i was hoping for your roasts to be slightly more lit, like this project takes advice from literal babies that can't even balance a their private parts during intercourse...or something like that.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

i was hoping for your roasts to be slightly more lit, like this project takes advice from literal babies that can't even balance a their private parts during intercourse...or something like that.

Oh




Very occasionally I can be civil I guess

 

[ZeusLink]

So...nice weather we're having...

 

[MrGameguycolor]

KuroganeHammer Yo, you forgot Gunner's Forward Tilt FAF. What the hell is with all the hiccups, dude? First Ganondorf's Dark Dive, now this? Come on man, lol.

Then go to someone else.

 

[ZeusLink]

You know Swordfighter's Down Aerial, right? It's autocancel frame is ridiculous, and it interrupts BEFORE it autocancels. Even from a full hop, or 2 full hops, it don't work right.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Suggestions

1. Fix any blind-spots and wonky hit-boxes if she still has any. *
2. Bair Landing Lag decreased (18 -> 15)
3. Nair Autocancel Window Improved (35> -> 28>)
4. Fair Autocancel Window Improved (47> -> 37>) [Can now use SH fair again ] *
5. Bair Autocancel Window Improved (42> -> 32>)
6. Bair KBG decreased (98 -> 93)
7. Homing Missile FAF reduced (57 -> 51) * (Ironically they want missile cancels.)
8. Super Missile FAF reduced (59 -> 53) *
9. Homing Missile KBG Increased ( 22 -> 52)
10. Homing Missile Angle changed ( 0 -> 20)
11. Give Homing Missile better homing (If this is possible) *
12. Super Missile Damage Increased (10 -> 12) *
13. Super Missile KBG Increased (65 -> 70) *
14. Back-throw BKB, KBG and damage Increased, (60 -> 70), (55 -> 65) ( 8 -> 10) (Stock Cap Kill Throw) **
15. Back-throw angle changed (40 -> 45)
16. Down Smash Hit 1 BKB (70 -> 80) *
17. Down Smash Hit 2 BKB (70 -> 82) *
18. Down Smash Hit 1 KBG (46 -> 66) *
19. Down Smash Hit 2 KBG (48 ->68) (Both the front and back hit of her down-smash are very weak currently) *
20. Bombs now explode on contact with opponent. (Like in Melee) *

Green =Preferably Required
* = Things the Samus Boards generally agree on when it comes to buffing Samus.
** = Back-Throw stats is nearly the same as Mario's B-throw except Samus damage is lower thus decreasing knockback make her B-throw weaker then his
Notes
In general I just touched up Samus missile game (Zoning) to be more effective then what it currently is now. Both Homing missile and Super Missile are both stronger especially Homing Missile where the opponents actually sustain some knockback instead of just flinching <- ( 0_0 ) while having less ending lag. I also improved her auto-cancels windows (Smash 4 truly have awful auto-cancels and I encourage everyone who's making suggestions to please polish them on the ones that are needed. (don't go overboard though even though there's a lot to polish up). I both buffed her bair and slightly nerfed it at the same in hopes of making it more safe and somewhat of a poke tool by decreasing the lag and greatly improving the auto-cancel window but decreasing the killing power a bit.

Suggestions.

1. Forward, Down, and Up-Smash all connect reliably without the opponent falling out......
2. Duck Jump recovery lasts longer and the start-up is quicker. (awful recovery)
3. Nair Landing Lag reduced (17 -> 14) (For a move to have 17 frames of landing lag and a small hit-box is rather strange)
4. Bair Landing Lag reduced (24 -> 19) (Excessive as hell)
5. Nair Autocancel Window Improved (44 -> 28)
6. Fair Autocancel Window Improved (46 -> 34)
7. Trick Shot (Explosion) KBG Increased (110 -> 115)
8. Clay Pigeon FAF reduced (66 -> 64)
9. Back-Throw BKB And KBG Increased (62 -> 70) (50 -> 70) (Weak Stock cap kill throw to help out this poor soul) *

* His stats on his back throw is similar to Mario (70 / 66) but his base damage on B-throw is 9 compared to Mario's 11 making his back throw weaker than his and Samus. (Mario > Samus >Duck Hunt)
Red = Not Required
Green = Preferably
Notes
His smash attacks now links together without the opponent falling out. Improved recovery to help out his garbage disadvantage state (off-stage) somewhat. Decreased landing lag on nair and bair along with better auto-cancels.. Gave him slightly more power on his can while also giving him a stock cap kill throw due to his heavily known struggle in not killing in forever allowing him to be a serious victim for rage.

 

[Radical Larry]

There's nothing wrong with dark dive and I don't care about mii gunner

Except in Dark Dive, I can't tell if the attack is the late hitbox or the attack that literally comes after Ganondorf performs the final hit of the grab attack. And seriously, you're kind of doing a bad job for someone who's supposed to have the most informed of Frame Data repositories.

 

[RedMarf78]

Except in Dark Dive, I can't tell if the attack is the late hitbox or the attack that literally comes after Ganondorf performs the final hit of the grab attack. And seriously, you're kind of doing a bad job for someone who's supposed to have the most informed of Frame Data repositories.

Yeah, the thing with anything on kurogane hammer's site is that you can't really complain about any of it since he's giving us this information for free and asks for nothing in return. Suggestions are one thing but you can't really complain about his work. Also, the dark dive attack on his site is the final hit of the grab. How can I tell? Simple, the weird late hitbox at the end of dark dive hits vertically but the move listed on the site shows the attack as hitting at the sakurai angle.

 

[anas abou]

Suggestions

1. Fix any blind-spots and wonky hit-boxes if she still has any. *
2. Bair Landing Lag decreased (18 -> 15)
3. Nair Autocancel Window Improved (35> -> 28>)
4. Fair Autocancel Window Improved (47> -> 37>) [Can now use SH fair again ] *
5. Bair Autocancel Window Improved (42> -> 32>)
6. Bair KBG decreased (98 -> 93)
7. Homing Missile FAF reduced (57 -> 51) * (Ironically they want missile cancels.)
8. Super Missile FAF reduced (59 -> 53) *
9. Homing Missile KBG Increased ( 22 -> 52)
10. Homing Missile Angle changed ( 0 -> 20)
11. Give Homing Missile better homing (If this is possible) *
12. Super Missile Damage Increased (10 -> 12) *
13. Super Missile KBG Increased (65 -> 70) *
14. Back-throw BKB, KBG and damage Increased, (60 -> 70), (55 -> 65) ( 8 -> 10) (Stock Cap Kill Throw) **
15. Back-throw angle changed (40 -> 45)
16. Down Smash Hit 1 BKB (70 -> 80) *
17. Down Smash Hit 2 BKB (70 -> 82) *
18. Down Smash Hit 1 KBG (46 -> 66) *
19. Down Smash Hit 2 KBG (48 ->68) (Both the front and back hit of her down-smash are very weak currently) *
20. Bombs now explode on contact with opponent. (Like in Melee) *

Suggestions.

1. Forward, Down, and Up-Smash all connect reliably without the opponent falling out......
2. Duck Jump recovery lasts longer and the start-up is quicker. (awful recovery)
3. Nair Landing Lag reduced (17 -> 14) (For a move to have 17 frames of landing lag and a small hit-box is rather strange)
4. Bair Landing Lag reduced (24 -> 19) (Excessive as hell)
5. Nair Autocancel Window Improved (44 -> 28)
6. Fair Autocancel Window Improved (46 -> 34)
7. Trick Shot (Explosion) KBG Increased (110 -> 115)
8. Clay Pigeon FAF reduced (66 -> 64)
9. Back-Throw BKB And KBG Increased (62 -> 70) (50 -> 70) (Weak Stock cap kill throw to help out this poor soul) *

why is (6) a thing, otherwise a fantastic list.

is great as well but not buffed enough IMO.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I was playing Mii Gunner the other day and I thought to myself: "Dear God, is his neutral air really this slow?"

Suggestions

1. Fix any blind-spots and wonky hit-boxes if she still has any. *
2. Bair Landing Lag decreased (18 -> 15)
3. Nair Autocancel Window Improved (35> -> 28>)
4. Fair Autocancel Window Improved (47> -> 37>) [Can now use SH fair again ] *
5. Bair Autocancel Window Improved (42> -> 32>)
6. Bair KBG decreased (98 -> 93)
7. Homing Missile FAF reduced (57 -> 51) * (Ironically they want missile cancels.)
8. Super Missile FAF reduced (59 -> 53) *
9. Homing Missile KBG Increased ( 22 -> 52)
10. Homing Missile Angle changed ( 0 -> 20)
11. Give Homing Missile better homing (If this is possible) *
12. Super Missile Damage Increased (10 -> 12) *
13. Super Missile KBG Increased (65 -> 70) *
14. Back-throw BKB, KBG and damage Increased, (60 -> 70), (55 -> 65) ( 8 -> 10) (Stock Cap Kill Throw) **
15. Back-throw angle changed (40 -> 45)
16. Down Smash Hit 1 BKB (70 -> 80) *
17. Down Smash Hit 2 BKB (70 -> 82) *
18. Down Smash Hit 1 KBG (46 -> 66) *
19. Down Smash Hit 2 KBG (48 ->68) (Both the front and back hit of her down-smash are very weak currently) *
20. Bombs now explode on contact with opponent. (Like in Melee) *

Green =Preferably Required
* = Things the Samus Boards generally agree on when it comes to buffing Samus.
** = Back-Throw stats is nearly the same as Mario's B-throw except Samus damage is lower thus decreasing knockback make her B-throw weaker then his
Notes
In general I just touched up Samus missile game (Zoning) to be more effective then what it currently is now. Both Homing missile and Super Missile are both stronger especially Homing Missile where the opponents actually sustain some knockback instead of just flinching <- ( 0_0 ) while having less ending lag. I also improved her auto-cancels windows (Smash 4 truly have awful auto-cancels and I encourage everyone who's making suggestions to please polish them on the ones that are needed. (don't go overboard though even though there's a lot to polish up). I both buffed her bair and slightly nerfed it at the same in hopes of making it more safe and somewhat of a poke tool by decreasing the lag and greatly improving the auto-cancel window but decreasing the killing power a bit.

Suggestions.

1. Forward, Down, and Up-Smash all connect reliably without the opponent falling out......
2. Duck Jump recovery lasts longer and the start-up is quicker. (awful recovery)
3. Nair Landing Lag reduced (17 -> 14) (For a move to have 17 frames of landing lag and a small hit-box is rather strange)
4. Bair Landing Lag reduced (24 -> 19) (Excessive as hell)
5. Nair Autocancel Window Improved (44 -> 28)
6. Fair Autocancel Window Improved (46 -> 34)
7. Trick Shot (Explosion) KBG Increased (110 -> 115)
8. Clay Pigeon FAF reduced (66 -> 64)
9. Back-Throw BKB And KBG Increased (62 -> 70) (50 -> 70) (Weak Stock cap kill throw to help out this poor soul) *

* His stats on his back throw is similar to Mario (70 / 66) but his base damage on B-throw is 9 compared to Mario's 11 making his back throw weaker than his and Samus. (Mario > Samus >Duck Hunt)
Red = Not Required
Green = Preferably
Notes
His smash attacks now links together without the opponent falling out. Improved recovery to help out his garbage disadvantage state (off-stage) somewhat. Decreased landing lag on nair and bair along with better auto-cancels.. Gave him slightly more power on his can while also giving him a stock cap kill throw due to his heavily known struggle in not killing in forever allowing him to be a serious victim for rage.

For Samus I would also suggest making it so that her jab always connects, either give her down tilt less lag or more power, and doing something about up air and forward air so that people can't fall out of it.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

I was playing Mii Gunner the other day and I thought to myself: "Dear God, is his neutral air really this slow?"

For Samus I would also suggest making it so that her jab always connects, either give her down tilt less lag or more power, and doing something about up air and forward air so that people can't fall out of it.

Honestly, this is probably a dumb idea.
But instead of having the 1st hit connect into the 2nd, why raise the damage of the 2nd from 8 to 13.5 and the KBG from 95 to 135. That way it would give Samus a potential kill option, thus making matches with her a bit more interesting.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Honestly, this is probably a dumb idea.
But instead of having the 1st hit connect into the 2nd, why raise the damage of the 2nd from 8 to 13.5 and the KBG from 95 to 135. That way it would give Samus a potential kill option, thus making matches with her a bit more interesting.

It wouldn't really benefit her, because there's no way you'd land that thing at kill percents, unless you swing around wildly and hope someone runs into it.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

It wouldn't really benefit her, because there's no way you'd land that thing at kill percents, unless you swing around wildly and hope someone runs into it.

I don't know, Jab 1 comes out at frame 3.
If she can land the 1st hit, she might be able to get a unexpected kill. Not to mention it could scare players from approaching her.

But I don't main Samus, so I can't be certain.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I don't know, Jab 1 comes out at frame 3.
If she can land the 1st hit, she might be able to get a unexpected kill. Not to mention it could scare players from approaching her.

But I don't main Samus, so I can't be certain.

Jab 2 stops connecting at 80% (give or take some), so unless you're saying that jab 2 should kill at 80%...

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Jab 2 stops connecting at 80% (give or take some), so unless you're saying that jab 2 should kill at 80%...

If it killed at 80%, we would have a problem.
I look at it as potential hidden power, sort of like Luigi's Green Missile Misfire.
Take it with a grain of salt.


Anyway, KingJigglypuff
How's the actual update coming?

 

[MarioMeteor]

Speaking of Luigi, we should do something with him, because he's kind of in need of help. If we're not going to make him Green Diddy again, then he should get a speed buff or a KO power buff.