Slower than Bowser huh?

[RWB]

I'm just going to outright attack you and say you're ********. ike w/ max defense and ragnell tie with oscar's max defense with a knight ward at 29. they're both earth affinity and get/give the same support stats, and both can hit at 1-2 spaces with a spear/ragnell. ike has an extra point of skill and speed, and oscar has 3 extra points of resistance, those are the only stat difference. ike gets 25 capacity while oscar only gets 20. skill wise, aether is the same as sol in that it heals you, but ike has a 27% chance to hit with it and oscar only has a 26% chance, and since ragnell is stronger than every single lance in the game, he can do more damage, and therefore heal more as well. That doesn't even account for the free 2nd hit of aether which cuts the opponent's defense in half before the hit. Aether does activate at 2 range btw, still 27%.

ike, even with only mediocre level-ups can beat the game by himself in hard mode when properly equipped (ragnell, knight ring, aether, miracle, couple elixirs maybe).
ike doesn't need 27 thousand gold every 2 maps to be able to do any real damage either.

arggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg my face hurts.

You're ********. Ike doesn't match Oscar until he gets ragnell, not even CLOSE. Oscar beats him for evade due to being able to support other earths. He can gain as much as 50 avoid from them. With Aether, he might be better, but it doesn't change the fact that Oscar beats him on all stages, except those two and the few he is left out of.

"ike w/ max defense and ragnell tie with oscar's max defense with a knight ward at 29"

Ike average is barely 22. that pushes him up too 27 with aether, respectable. Oscar averages 23. Ike has better def growth, and still doesn't beat Oscar on max level without ragnell.

"they're both earth affinity and get/give the same support stats"
Except Oscar has better support choices than Ike has. He has Tanith and Ike, for full avoid of 50, for example.

"and both can hit at 1-2 spaces with a spear/ragnell"
Yeah, lets ignore the fact that Ike can only attack from a distance for two chapters(not counting magic swords, which suck anyway), while Oscar does it for the entire game.

"ike has an extra point of skill and speed, and oscar has 3 extra points of resistance, those are the only stat difference"

At max level I presume. Ike has more of an advantage statwise there than you think. However, Ike is stuck with the worst weapon(barring light magic) in the game. The sword. Since the enemies in general have lances, Ike will lose hit, avoid and atk, and take more damage. Meanwhile, Oscar has a choice between Lances and Axes, and will have extra hit, avoid and atk, and will take less damage. This means their combat ability is pretty much even.

Oh, and you forgot the movement stat. 2 more movement is ownage, espescially coupled with re-move.

"ike gets 25 capacity while oscar only gets 20."
There is still no skill combo that makes him beat Oscar, since all effective skill combos is 10+10 in capacity. That lack of five is what gives Oscar his re-move ability(move after attack), which is better than any skill Ike can gain.

"skill wise, aether is the same as sol in that it heals you, but ike has a 27% chance to hit with it and oscar only has a 26% chance"

Yeah, one percent is gonna make a lot of difference. Irrelevant. Both skills suck due to their low activation rates.

"and since ragnell is stronger than every single lance in the game, he can do more damage"
Still, will lose big against Forged Silver Axe. Not that it matters.

"he can do more damage"
Situational.
"and therefore heal more as well."
Situational.

"Aether does activate at 2 range btw, still 27%."
Yeah, gives you a crit instead of the actual skill.

"ike doesn't need 27 thousand gold every 2 maps to be able to do any real damage either."
What? Ike has the Ragnell for two chapters, and loses in offensive ability the rest of the game.


"ike, even with only mediocre level-ups can beat the game by himself in hard mode when properly equipped (ragnell, knight ring, aether, miracle, couple elixirs maybe."

This goes for Oscar as well, and certainly even for Titania(She will have the easiest time). The only foes they cannot beat is the "Goddess Armored" Meaning Ashnard. And that's why you have a dragon and a Laguz King.

Ike might beat Oscar when he gets Ragnell, but Oscar crushes him before that. There is a reason Ike is number 8 on the tier list while Oscar is number 4.

Oh, and by the way, Titania is number 1.


Learn a little about the game before insulting me, *******.

 

[Conformal_Invariance]

This thread is for discussion of Ike's speed in Brawl, not childish debates on his abilities in Path of Radiance.

Take the unit debate ****ery to private messages.

 

[Deleted member]

lol, this is too much fun.

ike can get close to 50 evade w/ soren as an alternate support, as well as a marginal attack boost. soren also outweighs tanith pretty heavily. I know what the tier list is, all the paladins are higher than everyone else.

your arguments are good, but we seem to differ on what good means. you're playing off of what makes a character good for a high rank in hard mode and average stats. I'm basing mine off of unit prowess for the end of the game. oscar certainly can't solo the second half of the game by himself in hard mode and expect to do well.

On my file from last week, I had ike and oscar at A support, ike w/ miracle aether ragnell knight ring and oscar at knight ward w/ tomahawks/spears savior and vantage. he can solo a mission after he rescues ike i guess. stats aren't what makes ike broken, his stats aren't even as good as boyd's at all caps, it's his special weapon/skill and his ability to 1 man everything that breaks him.

ike's speed cap in the new game is 37.

 

[Hong]

I'll never understand those impulsive Fire Emblem fans that will insult you and give you paragraph after paragraph of opinion and irrelevant character statements because you miscalculated the strength growth of a Mage by 5%. I have never seen such spite and disgust until Fire Emblem was introduced to Americans. I mean, character comparison is all right. You think this character is better? Okay, that's fine. Just be civilized or subtle about it

"Ike is my favourite character in Path of Radiance!"
"OMG IKE IS GAY BLAH BLAH BLAH STATS YOU GOT LUCKY THIS CHARACTER IS BETTER IKE IS UGLY"

Give it a rest. D:

Anyways.
Regardless of how slow Ike will be, I not only desire to play as a Fire Emblem character, but I also wish to play as the slow heavy hitters. Roy fit like a glove for me. I liked being able to bait them or chase their roll into a fsmash and kill them at ridiculously low percentages. Since Ike can do that, I should feel at home regardless of how slow he is. I also doubt he'll ever be "gimped" with the amount of development time and staff Sora has.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

no more non brawl related talk please </moderator>

 

[RWB]

I'll never understand those impulsive Fire Emblem fans that will insult you and give you paragraph after paragraph of opinion and irrelevant character statements because you miscalculated the strength growth of a Mage by 5%. I have never seen such spite and disgust until Fire Emblem was introduced to Americans. I mean, character comparison is all right. You think this character is better? Okay, that's fine. Just be civilized or subtle about it

I point out that Ike wasn't a god in FEoR(I'm an Ike fan! Can you believe it?), get called ******** because I point out another character that is better, and when I defend myself, You complain.

"I'll never understand those impulsive Fire Emblem fans that will insult you and give you paragraph after paragraph of opinion and irrelevant character statements because you miscalculated the strength growth of a Mage by 5%."

Just because we have facts to back up our opinions doesn't mean you should call us impulsive.
------------------------------

Okay, I'll give things a rest. I'll just point out that Ike is lower than Oscar on the Tier List. I'll take the rest in PMs.
---------------------------------
Sorry for starting an argument. But you cannot say I wasn't justified.


About brawl-Ike, I think slow fits him.

 

[d0c926]

Hopefully if he is really slow as people said, hopefully they will fix him

 

[Pyr0]

Perhaps being slow (running-wise) isn't that big of a thing, maybe good new techs could be applied to make up for it (waveland bair any1?)

So lets talk about the different (and new) playstyles Ike could possibly have.

PS: Thanks Gimpy for keeping the FE post under control ; )

 

[smashbot226]

His movement speed is dreadful, but I enjoy his power. Of course, I like a balanced char like Mario, Pit, and Diddy (IMHO). Ike is too slow for me, tho.

 

[bluekitsune13]

I wonder if they introduce Ganondorf into the game, how will he fit in? If they give him a sword he could pretty much be a clone of Ike. I don't want clones, but it's just a thought. If Ike is selectable, he'll definately be the first one I choose. I just like swords. :D

 

[Hong]

I wonder if they introduce Ganondorf into the game, how will he fit in? If they give him a sword he could pretty much be a clone of Ike. I don't want clones, but it's just a thought. If Ike is selectable, he'll definately be the first one I choose. I just like swords. :D

Ganondorf only has slow movement. His sword attacks are actually quite fast, refined and professional. Ike on the other hand, is slow in every way and he uses pure brute force instead of any kind of known swordsmanship. Ganondorf will also hopefully be able to fire bolts of energy just like he has been able to do in every game except Twilight Princess.

 

[Maricalistaro]

its most hard to tell how these new guys will stack up against the veterans simply because we don't know every thing about them yet, and that will come with many hours of expeirience instead of just a few.

 

[kainsword]

Ike should seriously be toned down in power and buffed a bit in speed. This leaves Ganondorf and Ike to have similar stats; Many No-Flich Status Attacks, Strong, Slow, etc.

Instead there should be three tiers to swordplay fighters in Brawl.

Fast + Light
Marth (Pure Hand-to-Hand)

Average + Medium
Link (Projectile)
Ike (Pure Hand-to-Hand)

Slow + Heavy
Ganondorf (Partly Magic-Based)

As one can see, Ganondorf and Ike need their own niche, and they should have different stats. Ike should realistically be faster, and not Mr. Super Armor. It's alright for him to have Super Armor on some attacks, but it's entirely stupid to have both Ike and Ganondorf as the slow, strong sword users. Ganondorf will almost always win more popularity due to having more weight, power, super armor, reach, and better recovery (With Ranger Crit as his recovery, he suffers greatly. Aether is very situational to recover with.)

Ganondorf and Ike cannot survive within the same niche and only have altered movesets, their stats need to be different too.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

just so ya'll know if you over b directly at the edge you grab it *shrug*

his charged over b actually has some decent rage i suppose

 

[Zink]

just so ya'll know if you over b directly at the edge you grab it *shrug*

his charged over b actually has some decent rage i suppose

rofl RAGE MODE CHARGE UP RAWR.
So both his moves can sweetspot. I've heard that his over b puts him in landfallspeciallag though, so he can really only use one. So he has to not get hit lol. Oh well, he's such a beast defensively it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[PIT_IS_BACK]

So whos Phir3 is better? Ikes or Roys? =o

 

[Hallowed Storm]

Ike should seriously be toned down in power and buffed a bit in speed. This leaves Ganondorf and Ike to have similar stats; Many No-Flich Status Attacks, Strong, Slow, etc.

Instead there should be three tiers to swordplay fighters in Brawl.

Fast + Light
Marth (Pure Hand-to-Hand)

Average + Medium
Link (Projectile)
Ike (Pure Hand-to-Hand)

Slow + Heavy
Ganondorf (Partly Magic-Based)

As one can see, Ganondorf and Ike need their own niche, and they should have different stats. Ike should realistically be faster, and not Mr. Super Armor. It's alright for him to have Super Armor on some attacks, but it's entirely stupid to have both Ike and Ganondorf as the slow, strong sword users. Ganondorf will almost always win more popularity due to having more weight, power, super armor, reach, and better recovery (With Ranger Crit as his recovery, he suffers greatly. Aether is very situational to recover with.)

Ganondorf and Ike cannot survive within the same niche and only have altered movesets, their stats need to be different too.

I completely agree with this post. It makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Pyr0]

This isn't a Ganon thread, but now that we are in the subject, why can't he be all magic? does he really need to be ANOTHER sword fighter?

 

[Kashakunaki]

I think everyone will pretend you didn't say that and move on.

 

[PIT_IS_BACK]

This isn't a Ganon thread, but now that we are in the subject, why can't he be all magic? does he really need to be ANOTHER sword fighter?

What are you talking about? Ike is magic, have you seen Aether?
Do you honestly think he can stop the force of momentum, not to mention gravity without using magic? Also that he can catch the **** thing every singe time he tosses in the air. Seriously, I can feel the magic.

 

[Windlord]

If anything that's due to the properties of Ragnell. Ike ain't no Mage.

 

[MR.WIGZ]

What are you talking about? Ike is magic, have you seen Aether?
Do you honestly think he can stop the force of momentum, not to mention gravity without using magic? Also that he can catch the **** thing every singe time he tosses in the air. Seriously, I can feel the magic.

practice makes perfect...

 

[TamJammerz]

That fact that he is slow in Smash truly contradicts his speed in Fire Emblem...

 

[Knyaguy]

That fact that he is slow in Smash truly contradicts his speed in Fire Emblem...

Well lets take a trip down memory lane. The year was 2001. The World Trade Center was bombed. I am not sure weather the boards were open or not.If you can remember the speculation about Mewtwo begin over powered? Well Masahiro Sakurai solved that problem. And we all know how mewtwo turned out........Hopefully Masahiro Sakurai wont make Ike "Low Tier" like mewtwo but we dont want him to tip the balance in Brawl

 

[Bash20]

well ike is one of my ost wanted player.
but remember this its only a demo and remeber after a few of years or a time some SSB adicted players will like to stract all the juice to some players and will try to focus in ike's weak points and will make that his slowy movement will be an advantage

 

[Lgndknight]

Hopefully they give Aether some horizontal distance in the final version.... thats a nerfed final cutter, with anti-flinch

 

[EpicE]

Ike will prolly be on the same speed level as Roy I am guessing do to the size of his sword.

 

[True Fool]

This isn't a Ganon thread, but now that we are in the subject, why can't he be all magic? does he really need to be ANOTHER sword fighter?

Unfortunately Zelda and Link are the ones who squeezed him into that. By both of them using TP forms, along with Sakurai changing/removing all the clones, Gdorf is bound for a new moveset, and TP form will likely see TP sword. I honestly don't want him to be a pure magic user, I hate Zelda and Mewtwo, but I'd love to see Gdorf go halves on it.

Kinda sucks that I dislike the magic guys though, I'm really wanting Micaiah in Brawl :/

 

[RWB]

As one can see, Ganondorf and Ike need their own niche, and they should have different stats. Ike should realistically be faster, and not Mr. Super Armor.

No, Realistically, It would make the most sense if Ganondorf was the FASTEST swordsman around.
He's the most muscular, so he carries his blade with ease(Fast attacks, little lag). He's far taller than any of the other swordsmen, meaning he's likely to be a faster runner.
In close combat(espescially armed), Size is ALWAYS an advantage.

I checked Ikes PoR ranger animations, btw. They're about as slow as Ike in SSBB. So I really don't get why people say he is "out-of-character".

 

[Diddy Kong]

If I recall correctly, Link's sword slashes where always faster than Ganondorf's. Surely Ganondorf only really fought with swords in two games (TP and WW) but it still says something. Ever since TP, I wanted Ganondorf to be a defensive character. Suprisingly quick sword slashes with long reach but big lag time afterwards, while still having most of the same aerials from Melee to also be useful in offensive combat. If they could pull that out, and give Ganon a few spells in his B moves I doubt that he and Ike will be that similair.

Still, I'd prefer Ike to be a more balanced character... If he were just a bit more similar in stats to Link he'd still be different enough to Marth. =/ Hopefully they'll change Ike around a bit in the final game.

 

[Emblem Lord]

In combat speed is more of an advantage then size.

Just throwing that out here.

Who cares how big you are if you can't land a hit.

This goes for IRL as well in martial arts.

 

[RWB]

In combat speed is more of an advantage then size.

Just throwing that out here.

Who cares how big you are if you can't land a hit.

This goes for IRL as well in martial arts.

Yeah. But a bigger man has greater range, is stronger, is equally fast(or if armed and wearing armor/Defense, FASTER), with equal amounts of training(unless he is a fatso...).

That's why it's an advantage. The only real weakness is ranged weapons being more of a threat. And the difference there is small at best.

 

[Saph66]

Yeah. But a bigger man has greater range, is stronger, is equally fast(or if armed and wearing armor/Defense, FASTER), with equal amounts of training(unless he is a fatso...).

That's why it's an advantage. The only real weakness is ranged weapons being more of a threat. And the difference there is small at best.

They aren't faster, they are slower. And since they are big, they are more open to more attacks cause of their size, more weak points to target, and you are too big and slow compared to the other agile guy to block them. You also have less endurace because you use more energy to move around. Big is not always an advantage.

 

[RWB]

They aren't faster, they are slower.

No, they're not. And even if they are a LITTLE slower in unarmed combat, it's not a noticeable difference. And in armed combat, They're faster, thus having only advantages. A fat guy perhaps. But a big guy with an equal amount of training as a a small one will have the advantage.

And since they are big, they are more open to more attacks cause of their size, more weak points to target

No, the amount of weak spots are the same, they are both humans... I think? Open to more attacks, no, thanks to their greater range of damage.

, and you are too big and slow compared to the other agile guy to block them.

Totally flippin bogus. Blocking isn't exactly hard to do, espescially when the speed difference is minimal at best. Agileness isn't that reliant on size, either. This only goes for unarmed combat, as well, as in armed combat, the speed advantage is in the big guys favor.

You also have less endurace because you use more energy to move around. Big is not always an advantage.

Might be true, though I doubt it. You can just wait for the enemy to attack, you will always have a bigger amount of pressure, thanks to range and power, and near equal speed.


Nowadays it isn't a big deal... Small might be an advantage(Y HALO THAR GUNZ) now, but before they were introduced, BIG>small. There is a reason just about every renown warrior is described as both tall and built.

 

[Vyper]

Because of the delay nothing will be truly certain until the game comes out. Wait a few years(ha ha) and then we'll find out how good he is.

 

[Saph66]

I don't wana fight on the internet. But just so you know size doesnt always have all the advantages. In real life fights, its moreso of skill, and technique than anything else. But both big and small have their advantages and disadvantages, just depends on the situation.

 

[RWB]

I don't wana fight on the internet. But just so you know size doesnt always have all the advantages. In real life fights, its moreso of skill, and technique than anything else. But both big and small have their advantages and disadvantages, just depends on the situation.

I'm just saying size is an advantage. not the deciding factor, far from it. Skill and technique is much more important.

 

[Alondite]

You're ********. Ike doesn't match Oscar until he gets ragnell, not even CLOSE. Oscar beats him for evade due to being able to support other earths. He can gain as much as 50 avoid from them. With Aether, he might be better, but it doesn't change the fact that Oscar beats him on all stages, except those two and the few he is left out of.

"ike w/ max defense and ragnell tie with oscar's max defense with a knight ward at 29"

Ike average is barely 22. that pushes him up too 27 with aether, respectable. Oscar averages 23. Ike has better def growth, and still doesn't beat Oscar on max level without ragnell.

"they're both earth affinity and get/give the same support stats"
Except Oscar has better support choices than Ike has. He has Tanith and Ike, for full avoid of 50, for example.

"and both can hit at 1-2 spaces with a spear/ragnell"
Yeah, lets ignore the fact that Ike can only attack from a distance for two chapters(not counting magic swords, which suck anyway), while Oscar does it for the entire game.

"ike has an extra point of skill and speed, and oscar has 3 extra points of resistance, those are the only stat difference"

At max level I presume. Ike has more of an advantage statwise there than you think. However, Ike is stuck with the worst weapon(barring light magic) in the game. The sword. Since the enemies in general have lances, Ike will lose hit, avoid and atk, and take more damage. Meanwhile, Oscar has a choice between Lances and Axes, and will have extra hit, avoid and atk, and will take less damage. This means their combat ability is pretty much even.

Oh, and you forgot the movement stat. 2 more movement is ownage, espescially coupled with re-move.

"ike gets 25 capacity while oscar only gets 20."
There is still no skill combo that makes him beat Oscar, since all effective skill combos is 10+10 in capacity. That lack of five is what gives Oscar his re-move ability(move after attack), which is better than any skill Ike can gain.

"skill wise, aether is the same as sol in that it heals you, but ike has a 27% chance to hit with it and oscar only has a 26% chance"

Yeah, one percent is gonna make a lot of difference. Irrelevant. Both skills suck due to their low activation rates.

"and since ragnell is stronger than every single lance in the game, he can do more damage"
Still, will lose big against Forged Silver Axe. Not that it matters.

"he can do more damage"
Situational.
"and therefore heal more as well."
Situational.

"Aether does activate at 2 range btw, still 27%."
Yeah, gives you a crit instead of the actual skill.

"ike doesn't need 27 thousand gold every 2 maps to be able to do any real damage either."
What? Ike has the Ragnell for two chapters, and loses in offensive ability the rest of the game.


"ike, even with only mediocre level-ups can beat the game by himself in hard mode when properly equipped (ragnell, knight ring, aether, miracle, couple elixirs maybe."

This goes for Oscar as well, and certainly even for Titania(She will have the easiest time). The only foes they cannot beat is the "Goddess Armored" Meaning Ashnard. And that's why you have a dragon and a Laguz King.

Ike might beat Oscar when he gets Ragnell, but Oscar crushes him before that. There is a reason Ike is number 8 on the tier list while Oscar is number 4.

Oh, and by the way, Titania is number 1.


Learn a little about the game before insulting me, *******.

I have to laugh at you for even implying there are reasonable tiers for FE. That's just laughable. Anyone who really believes those needs to be put out of their misery. How...in a game filled with nearly limitless strategies and styles, that is almost completely based randomly, can you make tiers? Characters are never the same.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

wow this isn't even close to on topic anymore, this is not a fire emblem forum with an ike character discussion

i thought i said something like this earlier anyways

*bowser fsmash*