Slower than Bowser huh?

[RWB]

I always play it on Hard and it's the same deal. Ike is the ultimate unit. Other than the specal units you get near the end of the game, it's only characters like Nephenee or Boyd can come even close to his Godmode. I have never, ever seen Lord Ike die on hard and I usually give him Provoke.

Argh... I hate when people refer to Ike as a god unit. He's hardly even among the ten best units for fighting you get. Oscar, for example, owns Ike the entire game, what with better offense until the last two stages, and even then matching him if getting forged weapons, and a giant lead in defense and big win in avoid(Due to better support), more movement, remove...

Ike is not a god unit. Even if you happen to be lucky with him, the averages are the only way to really argue about him statwise. Because that is what his likeliest stats is.

Oh, and aether in PoR is not even good. It is, believe it or not, worse than Sol, as Sol can activate at range.

I don't dislike Ike, he's one of my favs. But he is far, far,far from being a god. You want a god(dess)? Take a look at Sety or Lakche from FE4.

 

[Raptorbite]

ike is WAY slower than any melee tourney, unless there is a change from the demo (i hope) he is going to be sooooo horrendous.

and no, bowser is not top tier, he's only slightly better lol

No! And I had such high hopes for Ike. I wanted him to be my new favorite character... guess I'll just have to wait for the game to come out to decide.

I remember reading somewhere that Ike's counter is as long as Marth's and as powerful as Roy's, and with lag reduced across the board I don't see that being a problem. If all that's true then I definitely see myself playing Ike sometimes enen if it's just to screw with my friends and basically counter their ***** into submission! hehe

 

[Wight]

i got the impression that ike's moves arent slow, but they have a lot of post-attack-delay. like Bowser's punch for example. I would definitely say that he is slow, and bowser is slow, but they are slow in different ways. Would have to play him to know better

 

[Zink]

i got the impression that ike's moves arent slow, but they have a lot of post-attack-delay. like Bowser's punch for example. I would definitely say that he is slow, and bowser is slow, but they are slow in different ways. Would have to play him to know better

well, really, if his attacks have a lot of slowdown lag, that won't be much trouble. He has such huge knockback it hardly matters, because the enemy will be too far away to retaliate.

 

[LockeExe]

ike is WAY slower than any melee tourney, unless there is a change from the demo (i hope) he is going to be sooooo horrendous.

and no, bowser is not top tier, he's only slightly better lol

You're comparing the speed of the game to Melee. It's been said that this game plays noticeably slower, and that it's in a way more strategic.

The game will stay at this speed, and I think his moves come out at a decent speed compared to the speed of the game. Keep in mind he has no-flinch frames.

 

[Cenedar]

Why is Aether bad? Just apply it like Luigi's B Up. DI away from edgeguarders, and then far below the edge. When Ike throws his sword up, it will cut off all edgeguarders for him to make safe return. If he can use his B Forward without entering freefall, we're talking one of the better recoveries. O.o

I don't see how people can consider Ike's recovery bad. Initial flinch immunity AND an upwards projectile that cuts off meteor smash/foot stool jump attempts!? I'm sold!

As for Ike's speed, he seems more like Ganondorf from Melee than anything. He has grab and punch combo to control speedy character with really painful attacks to follow up with, as well as a Counter ability to exit combos. Ike is fine.

That's kind of funny, when I saw the Ike vids his speed reminded me of Ganondorf in Melee too. I have yet to see the Ranger Critical (is that what we're calling it?) but from the sounds of it, Ike's recovery is not as bad as some people think. Recovering with ANY character takes proper spacing and timing, Ike is no exception.

I personally can't wait to try him out, if only to use that godly Final Smash of his... but in response to the thread title, no, I don't think Ike is slower than Bowser. Maybe just as slow sometimes, but definitely not slower.

 

[Nintendo_lord]

Ike seems like Marthand Roy in speed and moving around than anybody. His recovery does leave something to be desired though.

 

[Pyr0]

@ Cenedar: don't take the thread title so seriously I just thought it was catchy, And yeah, Ike does remind me of Ganon a bit, I loved he's Final Smash too! specially on the video I liked to in the first post, it just destroys stocks.

Now lets all tack about what do you think playing as Ike is going to be like... Would it be aggressive? Personally I think he's going to end up being a defensive kind of character, wait to get attack and them make them pay for it.

 

[Cyberbot5000]

If he moves like Ganondorf (speed wise etc) then I will feel right at home but his recovery could have been better

 

[Pyr0]

Well, as other posters have mentioned, perhaps he's recovery is rather good, if he can use the [B+>] attack in the air repeatedly, he would just need to get below the actual ledge, then just use [B+^] giving him a super safe recovery, because Ike's sword spins while in the air, defending him from any edge-guard.

Lets just hope for Ike's sake that he can use he's [B+>] multiple times (like Luigi)

 

[MR.WIGZ]

Ike is going to be a stock tank when it comes to teams....i think he'll fine provided the user uses "mind games" :D

 

[MR.WIGZ]

@ Cenedar: don't take the thread title so seriously I just thought it was catchy, And yeah, Ike does remind me of Ganon a bit, I loved he's Final Smash too! specially on the video I liked to in the first post, it just destroys stocks.

Now lets all tack about what do you think playing as Ike is going to be like... Would it be aggressive? Personally I think he's going to end up being a defensive kind of character, wait to get attack and them make them pay for it.

I see him as a defensive player, i wonder how effective eruption will be especially on the ledge guarding.....

 

[Nowfist]

Ike will be a mix of both, considdering he has large knock back moves which'll be good for team stock in tourney's, and then he has the unflinch properties which lets him lay a really powerfull and finish the opponent off for offense.

It depends on how you want to use him, im gonna combine both, which is a key to victory.

 

[GenG]

Slower than Bowser? I don't think so. Ike moves moderately fast. In this video, around 0:17, you can see Ike dash-dancing at the running speed is about Link.

 

[MR.WIGZ]

Ike will be a mix of both, considdering he has large knock back moves which'll be good for team stock in tourney's, and then he has the unflinch properties which lets him lay a really powerfull and finish the opponent off for offense.

It depends on how you want to use him, im gonna combine both, which is a key to victory.

yea but the "X" factor for ike is cleary his unflinching frames knowing when they are activated will be "the key to victory"

on another note maybe you can control where you throw your sword when doing aether allowing you to move a lil more horzintally

 

[Pyr0]

Slower than Bowser? I don't think so. Ike moves moderately fast. In this video, around 0:17, you can see Ike dash-dancing at the running speed is about Link.

Pyr0 wrote: don't take the thread title so seriously I just thought it was catchy

Also

on another note maybe you can control where you throw your sword when doing aether allowing you to move a lil more horzintally

That would be very very powerful, perhaps even broken (Offensive wise), Ike sends opponent flying, he stands in the middle of the stage, and he Sends he's sword right at the tip of the edge, preventing the opponent from grabbing the edge.

Recovery Wise, it would be a nice option to have.

 

[Zink]

I thought of another thing- consider a f/usmash. It has bad startup, right? What do you do to a slow fsmash in Melee? WD back and counter, of course. Without WD, the only other options are let him finish his smash, or try to shorthop an attack into him... however, since he has super armor in the second half of fsmash, and everyone is slower and floatier, you don't have time for an aerial before the armor comes out, and if you try to hit during the armor frames you pretty mush die. For usmash, the range is so rediculous you CAN'T land an attack from above. Your only choice is to somehow hit below the smash after it passes by you. Not as easy as it seems, just as Ike is not as slow as he seems.

 

[Hong]

Yeah. A lot of the times I land a fsmash with Roy is either with a combo, a wavedash back or I simply walk away from my enemy. I think if Ike walks away from Fox while he does his forward smash, he'll have enough time to nail Fox before he can recover. At least based on the videos we've seen, but I doubt Fox's fsmash is any faster.

 

[MR.WIGZ]

I thought of another thing- consider a f/usmash. It has bad startup, right? What do you do to a slow fsmash in Melee? WD back and counter, of course. Without WD, the only other options are let him finish his smash, or try to shorthop an attack into him... however, since he has super armor in the second half of fsmash, and everyone is slower and floatier, you don't have time for an aerial before the armor comes out, and if you try to hit during the armor frames you pretty mush die. For usmash, the range is so rediculous you CAN'T land an attack from above. Your only choice is to somehow hit below the smash after it passes by you. Not as easy as it seems, just as Ike is not as slow as he seems.

you make a really good point...

@pyro-- well i wasnt think that the sword would go that far, i was thinking you could angle it similar to a pound

 

[Titan05]

I've seen some pretty good Ganondorf players, its all about timing.
So I hope Ike can be good.

Of course I'm I went to some pretty lower level tournies.

 

[Kittah4]

Not having played the demo, and just listening and watching, I can say Ike might not be so bad, but he will have to play defensively. He has Super Armor, a disjointed hitbox, and massive strength going for him. Basically, it looks like you'd have to find his fastest move for Ike to pressure them with into attacking, then counter. Hopefully his side A will work well enough to keep them at arms length and bait them into trying to attack from the air, where both Aether and Counter might make good anti-airs. Even HAVING counter is pretty huge for Ike, IMO. Over reliance on it is bad of course, but it looks to me like Ike will just have to get in one good hit (or throw) and then control them in the air with well predicted, heavy blows.

 

[Pyr0]

Speaking of Heavy Blows, Have you guys seen he's U-tilt? it can KO from as little as 56% damage, thats pure bloody madness!

 

[Hydde]

Speaking of Heavy Blows, Have you guys seen he's U-tilt? it can KO from as little as 56% damage, thats pure bloody madness!

Exactly what i noticed... unless that was his up smash!.

If Ike needs that little % to kill anything,,, it think he has hopes.

 

[Zlykin]

I personally dont get where anyone gets "ike is slow" from. From the little multiplayer matches ive seen from the expo (so close to attending to that too) ike players REALLY dont like to move...and when he does, he seems to be gannondorf speed. his dash seen in the vid from post one is somewhere between ganon and mario.



Im quite content with Ike.

 

[Silent_Hill_Crossing]

I personally dont get where anyone gets "ike is slow" from. From the little multiplayer matches ive seen from the expo (so close to attending to that too) ike players REALLY dont like to move...and when he does, he seems to be gannondorf speed. his dash seen in the vid from post one is somewhere between ganon and mario.



Im quite content with Ike.

I agree. Although I don't think people mean he's uber slow, just not really fast. Man his move's sure are powerful as Hell though. OUCH, I'm glad I'm not a Nintendo character.

 

[MR.WIGZ]

I personally dont get where anyone gets "ike is slow" from. From the little multiplayer matches ive seen from the expo (so close to attending to that too) ike players REALLY dont like to move...and when he does, he seems to be gannondorf speed. his dash seen in the vid from post one is somewhere between ganon and mario.



Im quite content with Ike.

my thoughts exactly, he wont be the slowest and he will be the strongest

 

[Pyr0]

What about he's moves huge startup lag? Do you think it will force Ike users to become great at prediction? or will they just hit no-matter what thanks to no-flinch?

 

[Zink]

they are referring to his attack lag, I think.

 

[Pyr0]

Well, I noticed most of his smash are quite laggy, perhaps he has armor frames before and during he's attack.

 

[Idfection]

no telling until we get our hands on it, I guess. He may have extensive armour on some moves, and none on others. It won't be hard to find out once we get the game in our hands. Too bad we couldn't find out more from the demo on him. No serious players seemed to spend any time with Ike, especially since Gimpy started bashing his speed and all. His Aether may work like roy's up-b, where after you press it, you jam right to move more horizontally. His Ranger Crit. may be able to be used several times like Luigi and Pikachu. No one up there bothered to find out. Or if they did, they're too busy telling us how 'slow' he is.

 

[PyrasTerran]

The thing is that heavy characters now have flinch armor, so the possibilities of ANY of them now being higher up on the tier list is very likely.

 

[Byron X]

LMAO, Ike is TOO strong! I lol'ed when he was KOing people left to right!

 

[KirbySSB]

Ike dittos are gonna be the best match in SSBB

 

[Rakath]

Well, I noticed most of his smash are quite laggy, perhaps he has armor frames before and during he's attack.

His F Smash has that horrendous start arc, but if the Normal Atk thread is correct it's also SArmor'd for most of the attack. Meaning that with proper timing even that terrible start up isn't an issue.

His U Smash is pretty fast and has range to die for... doubt it SArmors though since its got the power of Pikachu's tail, height of Marth's Up Smash, and outside range of Fox's D Smash.

 

[BoG]

I think his over-B may make up for his poor up-B in some situations. Not to mention, he probably won't be knocked off a lot in one on one, he'll be doing all the knocking-off.

 

[Zink]

I reviewed some vids... hmm. I think I have to revise my position. Ike looks kind of slower than I thought he was. SArmor is going to have to be manipulated REALLY well if you want to play him 1v1, I think. However, if it's done right, like with the fsmash, the startup lag might not be THAT bad, considering by the time the opponent reads the attack and jumps in with a counter Ike will probably have reached the SA frames... at least, that's how it would work ideally...

 

[MR.WIGZ]

lol its going to be fun to pwn noobs that dont know about super armor....

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

I reviewed some vids... hmm. I think I have to revise my position. Ike looks kind of slower than I thought he was. SArmor is going to have to be manipulated REALLY well if you want to play him 1v1, I think. However, if it's done right, like with the fsmash, the startup lag might not be THAT bad, considering by the time the opponent reads the attack and jumps in with a counter Ike will probably have reached the SA frames... at least, that's how it would work ideally...

I always thought that the addition of super armor would make up for his poor attacking speed if he's used defensively. If he can have just a few moves that have SE BEFORE the attack connects, that'd be good. (not like the Fsmash, where the SE kicks in midway.)

Even if there are only one or two moves that had SE after one frame, even for a short time, that'd be perfect.

Also remember that in fighting games, a countering move (such as Ike's counter) can make up for a huge portion of weaknesses if the player has fantastic reaction and skill at countering. I believe that Ike is going to need to rely on his counter a lot more than Roy or Marth ever did.

 

[Marthgreil]

I saw a video of Ike. He was not that slow. Slower than Bowser is an exaggeration.

 

[MR.WIGZ]

Delfino Plaza

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOh57KLox2I
2 Metaknight, Ike and Pikachu. A Metaknight misses his FS, Sudden Death between Ike and a Meta.

almost everyone online is going to use metaknight right?

well ike just pwned Mknight in sudden death!