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It gives you essentially 3/4 equivalent added distance of a wavedash from point of turn around, very beneficial for keeping a safer distance before committing to an Ftilt, especially since this mix up option is not widely known or used
All i ever see you contribute is criticism, yet you have no merit regarding your play or to any of your arguments, just your opinion and thoughts on the topic at hand which always come off as negative... I advise you to think more wisely about what you want to say before posting because it just makes you look like an incompetent hater, you opinion I am sorry to say holds very little weight and unless you have any data backing up the flaws of the mix up, you are just blowing hot air. I've passed this tech onto other top samus before post on here and its viability is not a topic of debate, it is a strong mix up option to extend samus's reach and you are not committing to anything in the turn around until you wavedash, and even at that point, you do not have to break neutral because you can wavedash back into up tilt to defend yourself instead of a forward option of ftilt or dsmash. The real viability of this stems from how short samus's dash dance is, which means an easier access to the run turn around momentum as a quick option during dash dancing, instead of having to extend yourself to a much further dash length to enter into a run before the run turn around.
Thanks BillNye, I am interested to see how others start using the application of the momentum gained to apply different ground based maneuvers. I know plenty of sami have played around with this particlar aspect of her movement, myself included but no application has arisen from it before (check back to Jan of 2014 and I made a thread called samus pro ice skater, how you can slide back and forth with the momentum but nothing useful came of it). I have a few more new samus developments still in beta testing hopefully they are as innovative ^_^
Still thinking about this and I'm just gonna point this out for posterity: You're moving hecka fast when you do this. You're going twice the distance in the same 14 frames that normal wave dash takes meaning that your ground speed is basically twice as fast as a normal wave dash.
Thus why i named it slingshot wavedashing
That looks sort of useful.... not useful, applicable or viable, just sort of, trying to demarcate a tech before he even explored it just from looking at it
I suggest you learn what Ad Hominem means, since I was not attacking his character but rather insinuated the analysis he put forward was; not researched and it was full of opinions that were simply false or irrelevant, nothing to do with his character, my first post was an observation that the majority of his posts are full of invalid conclusions based on opinions on the negative side of evaluation, again, nothing about his character, just a noticed mappable trend.I think the normal, non-defensive response would be either to ignore his post, or to say "why don't you try it out yourself?" rather than making a long post full of ad hominem attacks. Just because someone is challenging you, or even wrong, doesn't mean you have to insult them for it
Though I agree that he posted some pretty superficial thoughts, you responded by spending a ton of effort in discrediting each of his low-thought statements. Basically, I don't think that kind of post should warrant so much of your time.
... you are 100% correct, however I chose to because of his lack of preparation of a critique before spouting his mouth off, and it is widely known that I choose not to take the high road, so why are you putting me on the block for a behavior that is widely known and expected from me? :/ cmon bro. And ya, but I like making it clear to newer players why; superficial thoughts, as well as low-thought statements are not relevant to this tech as to its applications since he was the first person to spam this discussion post wall, and I did not want it being misunderstood for future sami ^_^ No such post is below me, now that is the elitist player attitude that should be stamped out, same with Top Player Privilege at tournies, we are a community and we need to help everyone out for the benefit of the majority, ie, benefit of future readers, even if its calling out an incompetent player for making claims that just simply can be misunderstood or are flat out wrong and discouraging them from making such pointless and wasteful posts. Instead show them how to ask instead of believing what ever comes out first is correct and worth space on these walls, new players should post and ask to clarify instead of clarifying for others. Especially if they, "can't really say for certain though because I don't know frame data." :/
Two things that invalidate this, and have also already been mentioned in the thread:
Litt
. You seem like a smart dude, you just lose your head in EVERY SINGLE THREAD. Seriously, I've never seen you just be a cool Samus dude.
How many frames is a Samus wavedash? I thought it was 10 or 11 or something like that.
Of course its not a personal jab, however you should think of what pros and cons are supported by facts and which are just the thoughts clunking around in your head before putting them in writing. Doing a commitment of two wavedashes, puts forward two commitments of forward momentum which gives away your intention to your opponent, especially if they themselves are not approaching. DERRRR Neutral game, nah **** that ****, ill just do two wavedashes forward and an fsmash, better yet, just run at them and dash attack, they will never see that coming..... Should you keep the distance of a slingshot wavedash away from them, the threat of a commitment then becomes the initial point of slingshot turnaround, which is noncommitmal for samus since she can wavedash away at any point, yet she is still in range for a slingshot wavedash ftilt distance, which a good opponent after being hit with this mix up once, will understand that they need to give samus more distance and anytime entering into the dash turnaround animation, is a threat for themselves. Two wavedashes does the same thing distance wise, but it has the same commitment as literally running forward the same distance of two wavedashes... Stop perpetuating ideas as if you understand the implications for them and just ask instead because clearly you are at an elementary level of play still. This SLWD extends the distance samus can safely stay while still being in noncommittal threatening situations for an opponent, which is the real value of the tech. You may love disecting the pros and cons, but bro you are not ready to speak on the validity of said pros and cons quiet yet, develop more as a player then start spouting your mouth off about what you know, by that point you wont want to, because you have to deal with kids like you now that think they know their **** and would need to spend most of your time correcting them where your time would be better off spent else where. The only reason I am choosing to do so here, is to clarify the usefulness of this tech so people do not misunderstand your incompetent evaluation of it one post down. ASK... DON'T TALK IF YOU DON'T KNOW YOUR ****... don't ask people to "Please criticize my thoughts without losing your temper." Instead formulate those thoughts into questions so people can criticize them, I would have been more than happy to do so, and without insulting you because you came from a place of requesting information and knowledge, the way you posit your thoughts you come from a place of declaration and a prove me wrong attitude, which you have no place doing (yet). Think about that next time you just throw your thoughts on here.Barbie man. When I start criticizing the tech (THE TECH MIND YOU), that's when present arguments to defend said tech. That's all you have to do. I love dissecting the pros and cons in everything. It's not a personal jab.
I've messed around with it, and all it really accomplishes is a different way to approach with an ftilt. Like I said, two wave dashes would easily accomplish exactly this in less(?) frames. Also, it might extend the second wave dash, but you are essentially replacing one wavedash with a turnaround, hence why it would be better to just do a full wavedash twice. I'm not underestimating the mixup value at all. It's a great way to bait someone out of a defensive option due to them trying to punish a turnaround. Please criticize my thoughts without losing your temper. I'd be happy to see why I am wrong without having you cry a wall of tears @
Samus wavedash is 14 frames--- I've tested it in debug mode.
BTW the slingshot wavedash is potentially less frames than two wave dashes--- Because of my unfamiliarity with the technique I couldn't tell exactly when the wavedash needs to be done out of turnaround. The wave dash could potentially be done as early as frame 10, I don't know for sure.
Litt
I'm not reading any of that.
BillNyeTheSamusGuy
Those options sound great. They do. But until someone confirms it is faster than 2 wavedashes none of this is useful. It does extend the wavedash by "3/4" or whatever. Even if that's true, you are still missing out on a 1/4 of distance at the cost of a 3 frame faster double wavedash. As the facts stand, you accomplish the same thing by simply running back and stopping. Do some more testing BillNye. I would love to see that I'm wrong and we have a viable new tech on our hands.
The entire technique takes 24 frames but you're only moving towards your opponent during the wavedash for 14. Because of this you can threaten your opponent from much farther away while remaining noncommittal. Since you can jump out of turnaround you could wavedash back or just jump to a platform to avoid your opponent if you need to. Basically, even if we eventually find that slwd takes the same or more frames than double wd, the technique still has a lot of utility since you're actionable for more of it.@
Literally exactly what I said in my last post, but without all the insults or condescending attitude ;p
Lol, I thought it couldn't hurt to reiterate.
Jab is what I had in mind to have additional options inbetween a normal wd distance away and the SLWD Ftilt, however as for cross ups go I feel just wave dashing would be more optimal to run past or wavedash past once you recognize the fear of the opponent to go into sheild, and yeah my version was intertwined in a rant of how ignorant and incompetent Mervis is
BillNyeTheSamusGuy
, you explained the viability more clearly. In short this is just a slightly safer slightly shorter double wavedash WITH mixup properties. What does the wavedash back after the turnaround look like? Is the distance affected at all?I explained it perfectly clear you just didnt read it because of the insults as a result of trying to challenge me with you incompetent option first instead of just asking for clarity originally. I state again, leave my post Mervis, you are not welcomed.Hey thanks @
Dude dash past crossup to slwd crossup to wd back crossup just looks SO fancy. Very silly, but very fancy.
Make me
Airdodge always sets your velocity 2.7900, so you can only really affect the 3 frames jumpsquat of the wd, so the total effect is small whatever you do before wd.
How does the turnaround extend the wave dash? Does the game just think you are in a place you are not?
