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PK Gaming

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You know what I think this thread needs? A change of topic lol. So, why are you all doom and gloom all the time, Pittoo? :p

And just like that, i'm reminded of the various amazing little exchanges of dialogue.


God, this game was way too good.
 
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Tito Maas

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Actually his name is Tito Maas Tito Maas , but that's close enough.
NID is 2OwtBlue. Let me know when you've sent the request.

Oh come on, his Brawl moveset wasn't even that good. Angel Ring was practically useless and Wings of Icarus couldn't even be reusable after getting hit. His arrows were good, though.
Sure, but it'd represent the original Kid Icarus while still being able to represent KIU with Dark Pit along with giving them different play styles. Also, move and game mechanics change from game to game.

Pit has players in Japan though. Overseas he's been stuck in the "people don't play him because people don't play him" rut.

I think I've explained why Brawl Pit doesn't really work... If you took Brawl Pit and scrapped the OP parts you'd end up with a useless husk like Falco.
People don't play him because there's no reason to pick him over another character and/or he's not all that viable, as evidenced by one top player worldwide using him. Also, we play the American meta and not the Japanese one.

Mechanics change from game to game, so that's not great reasoning not to keep that moveset. Look at Ness, Captain Falcon, and Mario, for example. Or you can start by looking at Pit.
 
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TMNTSSB4

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Sure, but it'd represent the original Kid Icarus while still being able to represent KIU with Dark Pit along with giving them different play styles. Also, move and game mechanics change from game to game.
No...only Uprising for Pit
 

TMNTSSB4

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That's a mistake. Unlike Dark Pit, he has more history than just Uprising even if you and others refuse to acknowledge it. Even things like his arrow charging animation in the air and ground were awesome easter eggs that did his character a great justice and is missed here in Smash 4.
No...not at all. Like everyone else who's a veteran, whatever game is the most recent is the one that decides the character's moveset fate.
Tito Maas Tito Maas

Mate, just stop please. You not going to get anything through here. Quit wasting time

:135:
Savage
 

Tito Maas

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No...not at all. Like everyone else who's a veteran, whatever game is the most recent is the one that decides the character's moveset fate.

Savage
Pit is one of very few veterans who have had their moveset changed from game to game. Other veterans would include Sheik, whose DownB changed from the chain to the Grenade Burst; Charizard, whose DownB changed from Pokemon Change to Flare Blitz; and characters like Olimar and Meta Knight who have had single moves changed to update with the series mechanics. There have been no characters with major move set overhauls because of a "new game" besides Pit.

You're free to have your opinion but if there's no real backing to it, just say that you prefer the Smash 4 moveset for no real reason. There's nothing wrong with that.
 
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TMNTSSB4

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Pit is one of very few veterans who have had their moveset changed from game to game. Other veterans would include Sheik, whose DownB changed from the chain to the Grenade Burst; Charizard, whose DownB changed from Pokemon Change to Flare Blitz; and characters like Olimar and Meta Knight who have had single moves changed to update with the series mechanics. There have been no characters with major move set overhauls because of a "new game" besides Pit.

You're free to have your opinion but if there's no real backing to it, just say that you prefer the Smash 4 moveset for no real reason. There's nothing wrong with that.
There's really nothing else for me to say considering both The Merc The Merc and Sensane Sensane pretty much called you out/roasted you...giving me no free/available reasons to back me up(thanks alot guys)
 

LancerStaff

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People don't play him because there's no reason to pick him over another character and/or he's not all that viable, as evidenced by one top player worldwide using him. Also, we play the American meta and not the Japanese one.

Mechanics change from game to game, so that's not great reasoning not to keep that moveset. Look at Ness, Captain Falcon, and Mario, for example. Or you can start by looking at Pit.
Both the official SSB4 back room tier list and ZeRo's personal tier list put them at 16th. What kind of crazy land do you live in where characters like ROB or Greninja aren't viable? Because they're both worse then the Pits.

Ness got some major changes from Brawl, though the biggest thing helping his viability was not being super weak to grab releases... Captain Falcon and Mario really didn't change much because they inherently benefit from the mechanical changes. Brawl Pit was a character designed to work in Brawl, so a straight transition wouldn't gone over nearly as well. Brawl Pit only has a handful of moves better then SSB4 Pit's anyway... Arrows, Uspecial, Bair, and Dsmash somewhat. Brawl Pit might be the stronger character if all of these things were unchanged, but looking at literally every character that's transitioned from an old game there's no chance they would of made it. (Yes, even Melee Roy has things over SSB4 Roy. Waaay better Dtilt, Nspecial, Fspecial, and a bunch of other things because he came from Melee Marth.) SSB4 Pit got the treatment SSB4 Falco should have also gotten, basically.
 

Sensane

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Brawl Pit only has a handful of moves better then SSB4 Pit's anyway... Arrows, Uspecial, Bair, and Dsmash somewhat.
How is brawl up b better than ssb4? Wings of Icarus was the biggest reason why I didn't like Pit in Brawl that much. Once you act out/get hit out of the move, you can't even use it again. Power of Flight is generous enough to let you use it again and it's faster (though the downside is that it can't really snap the ledge inthe first half of the move for some reason unlike brawl). Maybe the wings have some sort of combo potential I don't know about, but personally I find it more important to have an up b that can recover rather than an up b that can attack.
 

momochii

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How is brawl up b better than ssb4? Wings of Icarus was the biggest reason why I didn't like Pit in Brawl that much. Once you act out/get hit out of the move, you can't even use it again. Power of Flight is generous enough to let you use it again and it's faster (though the downside is that it can't really snap the ledge inthe first half of the move for some reason unlike brawl). Maybe the wings have some sort of combo potential I don't know about, but personally I find it more important to have an up b that can recover rather than an up b that can attack.
Gimping characters like snake when they tried to c4 recover since w.o.i had that wind effect also pushing characters off the ledge just as they were about to snap the ledge. Very situational of course and you could also refresh your wings.
 

TMNTSSB4

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How is brawl up b better than ssb4? Wings of Icarus was the biggest reason why I didn't like Pit in Brawl that much. Once you act out/get hit out of the move, you can't even use it again. Power of Flight is generous enough to let you use it again and it's faster (though the downside is that it can't really snap the ledge inthe first half of the move for some reason unlike brawl). Maybe the wings have some sort of combo potential I don't know about, but personally I find it more important to have an up b that can recover rather than an up b that can attack.
Power of Flight Boys
 

The Merc

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Pit is one of very few veterans who have had their moveset changed from game to game. Other veterans would include Sheik, whose DownB changed from the chain to the Grenade Burst; Charizard, whose DownB changed from Pokemon Change to Flare Blitz; and characters like Olimar and Meta Knight who have had single moves changed to update with the series mechanics. There have been no characters with major move set overhauls because of a "new game" besides Pit.

You're free to have your opinion but if there's no real backing to it, just say that you prefer the Smash 4 moveset for no real reason. There's nothing wrong with that.
- Link 64 to Melee
- Falcon 64 to Melee

just to name a few.

Both the official SSB4 back room tier list and ZeRo's personal tier list put them at 16th. What kind of crazy land do you live in where characters like ROB or Greninja aren't viable? Because they're both worse then the Pits.

Ness got some major changes from Brawl, though the biggest thing helping his viability was not being super weak to grab releases... Captain Falcon and Mario really didn't change much because they inherently benefit from the mechanical changes. Brawl Pit was a character designed to work in Brawl, so a straight transition wouldn't gone over nearly as well. Brawl Pit only has a handful of moves better then SSB4 Pit's anyway... Arrows, Uspecial, Bair, and Dsmash somewhat.
WHY CAN'T I LIKE THIS MORE THAN ONCE?!?!

Brawl Pit might be the stronger character if all of these things were unchanged, but looking at literally every character that's transitioned from an old game there's no chance they would of made it. (Yes, even Melee Roy has things over SSB4 Roy. Waaay better Dtilt, Nspecial, Fspecial, and a bunch of other things because he came from Melee Marth.) SSB4 Pit got the treatment SSB4 Falco should have also gotten, basically.
How is Roy's old Nspecial better than his new one? New one is waaaaaaay better than his old one. By a long shot. Though I do mostly agree with you with the other things (not sure about Dtilt but Fspecial for the improved recovery ability yes. Also old Dair better than new)

Bacially, I personally think new Roy is better than old, but old Roy has somethings over new.

:135:
 

apparently fuz

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Honestly, I can see Pit going down the tier list because of the mixture of his lack of representation, and the fact that he's too honest compared to the characters above, and even below him. He doesn't have an outstanding/or abusive tool in his kit that can distinguish him from being an intimidating force in this current meta, where 0-death combos and killing sub 70% is the norm.
 

TMNTSSB4

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Honestly, I can see Pit going down the tier list because of the mixture of his lack of representation, and the fact that he's too honest compared to the characters above, and even below him. He doesn't have an outstanding/or abusive tool in his kit that can distinguish him from being an intimidating force in this current meta, where 0-death combos and killing sub 70% is the norm.
Everyone loves to use the word honest to describe Pit/Dark Pit...both Pits and someone like Yoshi should be high tier no matter what.
 

LancerStaff

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How is brawl up b better than ssb4? Wings of Icarus was the biggest reason why I didn't like Pit in Brawl that much. Once you act out/get hit out of the move, you can't even use it again. Power of Flight is generous enough to let you use it again and it's faster (though the downside is that it can't really snap the ledge inthe first half of the move for some reason unlike brawl). Maybe the wings have some sort of combo potential I don't know about, but personally I find it more important to have an up b that can recover rather than an up b that can attack.
There's a lot of techs involving the move, and more often then not you could reach the opposite ledge and avoid any punishment. Especially on SSB4 Pit since most of the time you're recovering with Upperdash, the movement capabilities gained more then make up for consistency when recovering. Big one is wing refresh, where if you start a WoI and brush the ground you can use it again when you cancel it.

How is Roy's old Nspecial better than his new one? New one is waaaaaaay better than his old one. By a long shot. Though I do mostly agree with you with the other things (not sure about Dtilt but Fspecial for the improved recovery ability yes. Also old Dair better than new)

Bacially, I personally think new Roy is better than old, but old Roy has somethings over new.

:135:
As far as I'm aware the new one is useless. Old one worked something like Ike's Eruption but not as well.

Honestly, I can see Pit going down the tier list because of the mixture of his lack of representation, and the fact that he's too honest compared to the characters above, and even below him. He doesn't have an outstanding/or abusive tool in his kit that can distinguish him from being an intimidating force in this current meta, where 0-death combos and killing sub 70% is the norm.
People said that but then Earth won a bunch of things right after the Electroshock buff... If Earth's results continue there shouldn't be a reason for him to drop.

But anyway, I'm going to be picking up Pokken this Friday. Might end up doing some work over there for a while, not sure. Assuming this cough doesn't get worse.
 
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TMNTSSB4

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There's a lot of techs involving the move, and more often then not you could reach the opposite ledge and avoid any punishment. Especially on SSB4 Pit since most of the time you're recovering with Upperdash, the movement capabilities gained more then make up for consistency when recovering. Big one is wing refresh, where if you start a WoI and brush the ground you can use it again when you cancel it.



As far as I'm aware the new one is useless. Old one worked something like Ike's Eruption but not as well.



People said that but then Earth won a bunch of things right after the Electroshock buff... If Earth's results continue there shouldn't be a reason for him to drop.

But anyway, I'm going to be picking up Pokken this Friday. Might end up doing some work over there for a while, not sure. Assuming this cough doesn't get worse.
Play Lucario
 

ReRaze

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Honestly, I can see Pit going down the tier list because of the mixture of his lack of representation, and the fact that he's too honest compared to the characters above, and even below him. He doesn't have an outstanding/or abusive tool in his kit that can distinguish him from being an intimidating force in this current meta, where 0-death combos and killing sub 70% is the norm.
Dair imo is an outstanding/abusive tool, it spikes, jab resets, combos and is just plain useable.
something i've been trying to incorporate into my gameplay is RAR dair near the ledge, from about 30% up it can combo into itself and bair...killing from about 30%-70%.
Also Dark Pit is dishonest af wtf is the electroshock. Covers landings, techs, rolls and it has superarmour to deal with aerial approaches. Don't tell me this move isn't scary, killing sub 70% is not an issue.
as for pit, he's still honest, as an angel should be, needs to play it smart to normally get kills.
Although in general trying to fight these characters offstage is where most of the early kills happen, I really wanna see more Pits go offstage and get in, instead of relying solely on arrows to get kills offstage.
Just give it time, tbh I feel Earth has barely scratched the surface of Pit's meta, he's just really good at a fundamental level. I mean just compare Some's greninja and SlayerZ peach and how they have really been pushing their characters by utilizing what other people only talk about, it can be done.
I agree with you the character will probably go down, but moreso due to lack of representation rather than being unviable.

Assuming this cough doesn't get worse.
You're always sick man aha, get well soon tho.

Play Lucario
Blaziken, fight me :p

Also seriously can we stop with the personal assaults on each other (constructive criticism is different to what I've seen above), we've only got like what? 9 people in this thread, if we can't even keep it civil with that many people maybe it's a good thing not many people come here.
 
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The Merc

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As far as I'm aware the new one is useless. Old one worked something like Ike's Eruption but not as well..
Nah mate.

While it does come out a little slower than Melee and has a less kill power, it is still an extremely good kill move plus the fact that it ends MUCH quick than Melee (basically means you can throw it out and then act out of it quickly to avoid punish) and comparing it to Ike's really isn't that good, since Ike's comes out MUCH later and has much more endlag.

Also, Roy can Sliding B and reverse (wave bounce?) Sliding B with it

:135:
 

ReRaze

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Nah mate.

While it does come out a little slower than Melee and has a less kill power, it is still an extremely good kill move plus the fact that it ends MUCH quick than Melee (basically means you can throw it out and then act out of it quickly to avoid punish) and comparing it to Ike's really isn't that good, since Ike's comes out MUCH later and has much more endlag.

Also, Roy can Sliding B and reverse (wave bounce?) Sliding B with it

:135:
Yeah the new one still has some good uses, relieving pressure by shifting your momentum mid air, acting as a bait (e.g airdodges, counters,), edge guarding and it's really safe.
 

TMNTSSB4

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Dair imo is an outstanding/abusive tool, it spikes, jab resets, combos and is just plain useable.
something i've been trying to incorporate into my gameplay is RAR dair near the ledge, from about 30% up it can combo into itself and bair...killing from about 30%-70%.
Also Dark Pit is dishonest af wtf is the electroshock. Covers landings, techs, rolls and it has superarmour to deal with aerial approaches. Don't tell me this move isn't scary, killing sub 70% is not an issue.
as for pit, he's still honest, as an angel should be, needs to play it smart to normally get kills.
Although in general trying to fight these characters offstage is where most of the early kills happen, I really wanna see more Pits go offstage and get in, instead of relying solely on arrows to get kills offstage.
Just give it time, tbh I feel Earth has barely scratched the surface of Pit's meta, he's just really good at a fundamental level. I mean just compare Some's greninja and SlayerZ peach and how they have really been pushing their characters by utilizing what other people only talk about, it can be done.
I agree with you the character will probably go down, but moreso due to lack of representation rather than being unviable.


You're always sick man aha, get well soon tho.


Blaziken, fight me :p

Also seriously can we stop with the personal assaults on each other (constructive criticism is different to what I've seen above), we've only got like what? 9 people in this thread, if we can't even keep it civil with that many people maybe it's a good thing not many people come here.
We don't need less people
 

TMNTSSB4

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Then we end up with o
That's not what I meant.... the last thing we need is less people.
only us cause everyone else, like Patrick Star has predicted, died. The End.
 

ReRaze

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Also how many hearts do we wanna bet that Pit went untouched this patch again.
 

LancerStaff

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Also how many hearts do we wanna bet that Pit went untouched this patch again.
Was thinking that as I booted up the topic lolol.

After messing around with them for a few minutes I'm guessing it's not much if anything. *Hasn't checked many patch topics yet Not exactly prepared since I wasn't even aware there was maintenance tonight but I'll see what I can come up with tomorrow.

Besides some unforeseen nerf the Pits are probably moving up, though. Sheik supposedly can't kill now and ZSS got meaningful nerfs, so that's two of our three bad matchups noticeably improved.
 

PK Gaming

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Pit himself might have been untouched, but the nerfs to Sheik and ZSS were super beneficial for him.

With MK nerfed, and with his already solid matchups against Cloud and Rosa, Pit is looking a lot more desirable at top level play now.
 
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LancerStaff

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So how about Corrin? :awesome:

For real though, seems a little much. (Nerfs to damage on aerials, max charged Nspecial, reduced KB on Counter Surge, much worse ground mobility IIRC.) I heard some combos opened up for him but usually any combos that come from nerfs very definitely don't make up for what was nerfed.

Also the data we've found so far points to absolutely no changes on the Pits. Not a shocker.
 

PK Gaming

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So how about Corrin? :awesome:

For real though, seems a little much. (Nerfs to damage on aerials, max charged Nspecial, reduced KB on Counter Surge, much worse ground mobility IIRC.) I heard some combos opened up for him but usually any combos that come from nerfs very definitely don't make up for what was nerfed.

Also the data we've found so far points to absolutely no changes on the Pits. Not a shocker.
Hahaha

Those changes are definitely annoying (though I actually wanted Counter Surge to be nerfed) but the likes of Sheik and friends being nerfed actually outweighs that for me. I definitely plan on working even harder with the Corrin to make up for the nerfs. Plus, as much as I like Corrin, I want to also start using more characters in general this time around. And with the gatekeepers being nerfed, I feel like i'll be able to do more with them in general.

The sky's the limit.
 
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momochii

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Was thinking that as I booted up the topic lolol.

After messing around with them for a few minutes I'm guessing it's not much if anything. *Hasn't checked many patch topics yet Not exactly prepared since I wasn't even aware there was maintenance tonight but I'll see what I can come up with tomorrow.

Besides some unforeseen nerf the Pits are probably moving up, though. Sheik supposedly can't kill now and ZSS got meaningful nerfs, so that's two of our three bad matchups noticeably improved.
As the Pits move up they get used more and more ;L not that that's a bad thing though...But soon people will realize we're good contenders ;D
 

Tito Maas

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There's really nothing else for me to say considering both The Merc The Merc and Sensane Sensane pretty much called you out/roasted you...giving me no free/available reasons to back me up(thanks alot guys)
If they were really serious about roast or calling me out to play, they'd have sent the friend request already. You would have too. Don't hide behind them when they're trying to hide behind you.
 
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TMNTSSB4

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If they were really serious about roast or calling me out to play, they'd have sent the friend request already. You would have too. Don't hide behind them when they're trying to hide behind you.
Why you assumin' we're hiding...from you of all things? I can understand a mod and all, but you? Nah fam; we just know we're right M8.

It's pretty much 3 on 1, and the 3 of us won.
 

TMNTSSB4

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I actually haven't played any of you. I was supposed to play you once; you ran.
So...being to busy with family to play a video game means I ran? That's a very, and I mean very, booty excuse/reason that you're gonna use.
 

TMNTSSB4

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When you schedule a match a week in advance and then when the time comes to play you look for something else to do? Yes.
I never set up anything; sure I agreed to a game or two, but who the hell chooses playing a video game over family time. You need to learn something about family over games before you try to claim some **** to seem like a winner.
 

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WELP. While Pit/DP may not be characters I'm very good at, I enjoy playing as them so, here I am. Hi.
 
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