Legend of Zelda Skyward Sword SPOILERS Thread (SPOILERS I TELL YA)

[Spire]

Okay, we need this.

Heed my warning people, this thread will fill up with spoilers fast. Just avoid it if you haven't finished the game.

ZERUDA SPOILERS
BEWARE

...​

 

[MuraRengan]

Yay.

RAWR RAWR RAWR SPOILERS. DEMISE IS THE CAUSE OF GANONDORF. GIRAHIM IS A SWORD. ZELDA IS HYLIA. THE OLD LADY IS IMPA. SNAPE KILLS DUMBLEDORE.

That felt good.

 

[Anth0ny]

Akuma as the final boss was cool.

 

[WindMajor]

Nintendo made it so that the main female protagonist's body gets possessed by an evil figure again!


[collapse="Not SS spoilers"]

[/collapse]

 

[Spire]

Alright so guys.

Remember when you had to collect the Tadtones for Faron? Well...


Remember these?

 

[Teran]

Man, I called Demise's spirit being reborn as Ganondorf the moment I saw him.

Also so glad I got the Hylian shield for that battle :x

 

[etecoon]

I like how this game both changed the zelda canon as we know it while also expanding it backwards thousands of years into the past as well. also to me it just really seems more in line with the older zelda games as well as the new, where before it seemed as if OoT had essentially rebooted the series and started a whole new continuity, I love what fujibayashi's done here to tie it all together

oocca are still a really weird unexplained loose end, even if you presume city in the sky to be skyloft, there's still a lot there that makes no sense

pretty sure the time travel rules in this are inconsistent and create paradoxes but this is usually the case in fiction involving time travel, meh

 

[Spire]

Just whipped this up:

Edit: Naturally the space directly beneath Skyloft comprises "[Southern] Hyrule Field" and "Kakariko Gorge", connecting the color-coded regions. Even the Ocarina of Time map makes sense according to this. Lake Floria is definitely not Lake Hylia. It becomes Zora's Domain if anything, but its positioning is questionable.

 

[etecoon]

I actually think the SS map matches decently with the LoZ map, death mountain in the north, wasteland in the southwest, forest in the southeast(and large unidentified body of water). this is one of the things that came to mind when I said that I could see other games coming between SS and OoT even though it clearly doesn't work for other reasons

it'd also explain why there's just a few old cavemen in LoZ, not much of a kingdom there, all wilderness...

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

LoZ isn't full hyrule though, just a part of it.

Oh well.

Spire, check this thread:
http://forums.zeldainformer.com/threads/hyrule-map-by-timeline.8275/

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Also, when you first enter the Sealed Grounds, shouldn't the Master Sword be there? but it isn't.

I think one of two things might've happened:

1. Impa turned the Master Sword + Pedestal into the sealing spike.
2. Impa is hiding the Master Sword so that Link fulfills his destiny


I also think that Hylia is the Goddess of Time so often referred to. Would fix some things...
Zelda is the one who tells you the Goddess of Time will be watching over you in MM. The Sealed Temple (a.k.a. Temple of Hylia) and the Temple of Time have a very strong connection, I'd say it's a definite possibility.


Also, Sheik's Harp in OoT is the Goddess Harp.

Check the similarities.
looks like the Happy Mask Salesman is there. ^

 

[MuraRengan]

I might be the only one that feels this way, but ultimately I was disappointed with the story in SS. Normally, I'm fine with the game's stories as long as they are good, but I feel as though this one, because it was mainly designed to explain a lot of Hyrule's origins, didn't do a good enough job of that and created too many more questions. I would be fine with it if it weren't meant to be the first Zelda chronologically, but this one adds a lot of new stuff that doesn't necessarily make the origins any clearer.

Like, why are the three symbols of Din, Nayru, and Farore seen this early, but don't resurface until Windwaker? Why are the Eldin, Lanayru, and Faron areas seen this early, omitted in every other game, and then resurface in TP?

What exactly is Demise and why does he have the power to place an eternal curse on the land AFTER he's been defeated? What is the relationship of Demise's Sword to the Master Sword? And Girahim's relation to Fi? Is Demise's hated incarnate only in Ganondorf, or is it in every villain?

Why did Hylia sent Skyloft to the sky even though she ultimately had the power to defeat and seal Demise away?

Given that Link ultimately gets all three Triforce marks on his hand yet he still needs to actually go and obtain the Triforce, what is the purpose of the Triforce mark and why does it seem, in other games, that the Triforce mark shows the presence of the Triforce with a person?

How long have the Shiekah been around?

Does Groose become the King of Hyrule?

Etc. For an origin story, I feel as though it explained a couple things, and made a bunch of more complicated messes.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I might be the only one that feels this way, but ultimately I was disappointed with the story in SS. Normally, I'm fine with the game's stories as long as they are good, but I feel as though this one, because it was mainly designed to explain a lot of Hyrule's origins, didn't do a good enough job of that and created too many more questions. I would be fine with it if it weren't meant to be the first Zelda chronologically, but this one adds a lot of new stuff that doesn't necessarily make the origins any clearer.

They did explain the beginning of Hyrule. Yes they created more questions, but on the other hand, I feel like the story was VERY complete and the ending was satisfying, while still setting up for more.
This game isn't aimed at theorycrafters, it's aimed at the Wii audience. Kids want the story to END, not to SET UP.

Like, why are the three symbols of Din, Nayru, and Farore seen this early, but don't resurface until Windwaker? Why are the Eldin, Lanayru, and Faron areas seen this early, omitted in every other game, and then resurface in TP?

This one intrigued me.
So I did some research.

What stood out to me is that, while the symbols of Din and Farore seem to be forgotten, Naryu's symbol is used by the Zora's in OoT.

But the Zora's live in the water, and in this game, Naryu mainly exists in the desert. Now THAT is food for thought.

However, the symbols were around, even though they weren't seen in the game.

"It's so pretty, isn't it? It's called Din's Pearl. My grandma gave it to me."
— Prince Komali

The first appearance of the symbols is in Oracle of Ages, in terms of game-wise. There they represent Currents, Echoes, Age. For Din, Farore and Naryu respectively. Besides that, they exist on the Spirit Gems in Phantom Hourglass and Skyward Sword. Nothing besides that.

Intriguing.

What exactly is Demise and why does he have the power to place an eternal curse on the land AFTER he's been defeated? What is the relationship of Demise's Sword to the Master Sword? And Girahim's relation to Fi? Is Demise's hated incarnate only in Ganondorf, or is it in every villain?

A demon.
He isn't placing an eternal curse, he's simply powerful enough to have his feelings of hatred reincarnated, and he's sure that there will always be someone who attunes to those feelings.

Demise's Sword and the Master Sword have some obvious implicated relations. It is said that only AFTER Demise has been sealed that Fi was created, thus we can assume that Hylia, seeing Ghirahim and Demise, created Fi in the likeliness of Ghirahim (though the obvious yin/yang comes through here, calm & collected vs impulsive & flamboyant) and allowed her sword to be attuned to the powers of the Goddesses.

The last is unknown but wouldn't matter for anything. One could say it is reincarnated in every villain to have been defeated by the Master Sword, as in the sword is where most of Demise's hatred sleeps.

Why did Hylia sent Skyloft to the sky even though she ultimately had the power to defeat and seal Demise away?

Defeat isn't sealing. She didn't have the power to defeat him, as they were equals. She could only seal him, after which she decided to be reincarnated into a mortal form to be able to use the ABSOLUTE POWER of the Triforce to be able to defeat Demise. (Goddesses can't use the triforce)
He's THAT strong to require a full blown God to sacrifice her mortality for the sake of stopping him.

Given that Link ultimately gets all three Triforce marks on his hand yet he still needs to actually go and obtain the Triforce, what is the purpose of the Triforce mark and why does it seem, in other games, that the Triforce mark shows the presence of the Triforce with a person?

Because the original Link had the entire Triforce present inside of himself. It's only at OoT where Ganon touches the Triforce, that it splits. SS Link is truly the strongest Link in the history of Links.
He was already attuned to the Triforce because he completed the trials and gotten the fires. The entire game is based around predestined happenings, it wasn't Link's decision to go get the Triforce, it was meant to be.

How long have the Shiekah been around?

This will never be answered, don't expect it too. They're always everywhere. Their emblem is even on the timeshift stones.
They are the shadow people. They appear whenever the **** they want.

Does Groose become the King of Hyrule?

No, Zelda's father is more likely. Where the hell did you get this idea?

Etc. For an origin story, I feel as though it explained a couple things, and made a bunch of more complicated messes.

=/ Disagree

 

[MuraRengan]

They did explain the beginning of Hyrule. Yes they created more questions, but on the other hand, I feel like the story was VERY complete and the ending was satisfying, while still setting up for more.
This game isn't aimed at theorycrafters, it's aimed at the Wii audience. Kids want the story to END, not to SET UP.

I definitely don't think this game was aimed at a kiddy Wii audience considering how it wasn't an easy piece of **** game. This is the first game to every make an incontestable reference to a timeline that affects every other game in the series. It is definitely aimed at theorycrafters.


And what do you think of the second part, concerning the provinces?

A demon.
He isn't placing an eternal curse, he's simply powerful enough to have his feelings of hatred reincarnated, and he's sure that there will always be someone who attunes to those feelings.

You don't know that. And even if you do assume that it's just his "feelings" since when do feelings impregnate women and cause them to have evil, god-hating babies? His power is too arbitrary for the game to suddenly leap to "oh well his hatred just lingers around forever and ever even after he's been defeated." Why does the game permit him this one instance in which his power supersedes being defeated and none else?

Demise's Sword and the Master Sword have some obvious implicated relations. It is said that only AFTER Demise has been sealed that Fi was created, thus we can assume that Hylia, seeing Ghirahim and Demise, created Fi in the likeliness of Ghirahim (though the obvious yin/yang comes through here, calm & collected vs impulsive & flamboyant) and allowed her sword to be attuned to the powers of the Goddesses.

That's more of a theory than an assumption. It doesn't naturally follow that Hylia would see what the evil demon guy does with his sword and decide "I guess I'll make a sword that looks really similar to it and make it have a sword spirit similar to his as well." I think there's a better explanation than that, especially considering that Hylia made the Goddess Sword, which looks nothing like the Master Sword or Demise's Sword.

Defeat isn't sealing. She didn't have the power to defeat him, as they were equals. She could only seal him, after which she decided to be reincarnated into a mortal form to be able to use the ABSOLUTE POWER of the Triforce to be able to defeat Demise. (Goddesses can't use the triforce)
He's THAT strong to require a full blown God to sacrifice her mortality for the sake of stopping him.

Isn't what happens to him at the end of SS essentially sealing him again? I mean, the game makes it clear that his spirit or whatever goes into the Master Sword, so we have no idea whether he's dead or not. For all we know, he could just be sealed again. So was Hylia's plot to use the Triforce to "defeat" him just a way of saying "put him in a stronger seal? My idea of defeat is the utter annihilation of evil, but neither Hylia's original seal or the final battle does that. Hylia's plot seems a bit weak.

Keep in mind that ultimately the Triforce has nothing to do with defeating Demise. They destroy him in the future, but they still have to go to the past and beat him. That's all the Master Sword, not the Triforce. That had nothing to do with Hylia's plan, nor was it predestined.

Because the original Link had the entire Triforce present inside of himself. It's only at OoT where Ganon touches the Triforce, that it splits. SS Link is truly the strongest Link in the history of Links.
He was already attuned to the Triforce because he completed the trials and gotten the fires. The entire game is based around predestined happenings, it wasn't Link's decision to go get the Triforce, it was meant to be.

The game pretty clearly shows that this is not the case. Link marks glowing on his hand, but those marks weren't the actual Triforce. If they were, he wouldn't have to go to the temple to get them. But in WindWaker, Ganondorf calls forth the Triforce seemingly from the marks of their hands, without ever entering the Silent or Sacred Realms to attain them. Why the big difference?

This will never be answered, don't expect it too. They're always everywhere. Their emblem is even on the timeshift stones.
They are the shadow people. They appear whenever the **** they want.

I normally wouldn't accept this as an answer, and I won't now either. Hyrule has and origin. Ganondorf has an origin. Link has an origin. But the Shiekah don't? Sounds like bull to me.

No, Zelda's father is more likely. Where the hell did you get this idea?

That was a joke.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I definitely don't think this game was aimed at a kiddy Wii audience considering how it wasn't an easy piece of **** game. This is the first game to every make an incontestable reference to a timeline that affects every other game in the series. It is definitely aimed at theorycrafters.

All of Ninty's games are aimed at the whole family. If they have to decide between casuals and hardcore theorycrafters, the answer is obvious.

And what do you think of the second part, concerning the provinces?

I honestly have no idea. You gotta consider that the only game where the name is changed is OoT.

You don't know that. And even if you do assume that it's just his "feelings" since when do feelings impregnate women and cause them to have evil, god-hating babies? His power is too arbitrary for the game to suddenly leap to "oh well his hatred just lingers around forever and ever even after he's been defeated." Why does the game permit him this one instance in which his power supersedes being defeated and none else?

No, you DO know that. It's literally said that his hatred is sealed within the Master Sword.

Ganondorf in OoT is simply a Gerudo thief who wants the Triforce to help his people rise to power. Because his heart isn't pure, when he gets the Triforce, it splits in three. Now meanwhile, the Master Sword has been pulled out of its pedestal and with it, Demise's hatred. It enters Ganondorf and Ganondorf changes under influence of Demise and the Triforce.

That's more of a theory than an assumption. It doesn't naturally follow that Hylia would see what the evil demon guy does with his sword and decide "I guess I'll make a sword that looks really similar to it and make it have a sword spirit similar to his as well." I think there's a better explanation than that, especially considering that Hylia made the Goddess Sword, which looks nothing like the Master Sword or Demise's Sword.

It's literally said that Fi was created after Demise has been sealed. It's only logical that, looking at how Fi and Ghirahim are alike, that Fi is made after Ghirahims image.
Hell, it could even be that Hylia made the Master Sword and simply left the Goddess Sword behind, knowing that the true hero would be able to recreate the Master Sword.

Isn't what happens to him at the end of SS essentially sealing him again? I mean, the game makes it clear that his spirit or whatever goes into the Master Sword, so we have no idea whether he's dead or not. For all we know, he could just be sealed again. So was Hylia's plot to use the Triforce to "defeat" him just a way of saying "put him in a stronger seal? My idea of defeat is the utter annihilation of evil, but neither Hylia's original seal or the final battle does that. Hylia's plot seems a bit weak.

You gotta note that Hylia didn't eventually use the Triforce. Link did, and killed Demise in the present. In the past however, he was still alive. Yes, it is essentially resealing him (his hatred, to be precise). He's dead, but his hate lives on (in Ganon most of the time).

Hylia's intentions were to REALLY kill Demise, but she oversaw the fact that if Demise was killed in the present, he would still be alive in the past. No, scratch that, SHE didn't overlook that, LINK overlooked that.

Keep in mind that ultimately the Triforce has nothing to do with defeating Demise. They destroy him in the future, but they still have to go to the past and beat him. That's all the Master Sword, not the Triforce. That had nothing to do with Hylia's plan, nor was it predestined.

It was Link who made the wish, not Hylia. Link screwed up her plan.

The game pretty clearly shows that this is not the case. Link marks glowing on his hand, but those marks weren't the actual Triforce. If they were, he wouldn't have to go to the temple to get them. But in WindWaker, Ganondorf calls forth the Triforce seemingly from the marks of their hands, without ever entering the Silent or Sacred Realms to attain them. Why the big difference?

Because by the time Wind Waker came around, Ganondorf already did his little OoT dance. The Triforce was attuned to Zelda, Link and Ganondorf already. In SS, the Triforce is attuned to nobody.

I normally wouldn't accept this as an answer, and I won't now either. Hyrule has and origin. Ganondorf has an origin. Link has an origin. But the Shiekah don't? Sounds like bull to me.

They have an origin, I just think that Ninty wants to keep it secret, and I fully support them on that decision. The Sheikah are interesting for their mystery, largely.

They're a really powerful tribe. Even creating three artifacts to make a man a god. (Lens of Truth, Mask of Truth, Stone of Agony. See truth, speak truth, feel truth)

The weird thing is, we know nothing about the Sheikah. Nothing. They're basically the backstagers of Hyrule.

 

[MuraRengan]

All of Ninty's games are aimed at the whole family. If they have to decide between casuals and hardcore theorycrafters, the answer is obvious.

I don't think that's the case with this game. What reason does Nintendo have to make an origin story for people who wouldn't care about it?

I honestly have no idea. You gotta consider that the only game where the name is changed is OoT.

Don't forget AlttP, Minish cap, and Four Swords. It's just really strange that the areas start off with those names, then the names are changed in OoT, then the names resurface in TP. It's like something happened in that time that was meant to conceal Hylian history.

No, you DO know that. It's literally said that his hatred is sealed within the Master Sword.

Ganondorf in OoT is simply a Gerudo thief who wants the Triforce to help his people rise to power. Because his heart isn't pure, when he gets the Triforce, it splits in three. Now meanwhile, the Master Sword has been pulled out of its pedestal and with it, Demise's hatred. It enters Ganondorf and Ganondorf changes under influence of Demise and the Triforce.

Again, I ask why is "hatred" so powerful? Is his hatred a conscious being that can choose who to manifest itself in? And if so, HOW can it do it when it was supposed to be sealed away in the Master Sword?

Demise's hatred is in the Sword, not the pedestal. you see the little black dust go into the Sword and it is then that his hatred is sealed, not when Link puts the Sword in the pedestal. This is even more evident because Ganondorf was evil even before Link pulls out the Master Sword. The Sword being in the pedestal has nothing to do with it.

It's literally said that Fi was created after Demise has been sealed. It's only logical that, looking at how Fi and Ghirahim are alike, that Fi is made after Ghirahims image.
Hell, it could even be that Hylia made the Master Sword and simply left the Goddess Sword behind, knowing that the true hero would be able to recreate the Master Sword.

I think the only logical conclusion is that they were created using the same means, means that both Hylia and Demise had access to. Hylia has no reason to make Fi in Ghirahim's image. Hell, he's evil, why would she create a sword in the image of another evil sword?

Above all, I think it IMPOSSIBLE that Hylia created the Master Sword. Why? Because then she could've done the exact same thing to Demise that Link did. She can't use the Triforce, but it says nothing about her not being able to use the Master Sword.

You gotta note that Hylia didn't eventually use the Triforce. Link did, and killed Demise in the present. In the past however, he was still alive. Yes, it is essentially resealing him (his hatred, to be precise). He's dead, but his hate lives on (in Ganon most of the time).

Hylia's intentions were to REALLY kill Demise, but she oversaw the fact that if Demise was killed in the present, he would still be alive in the past. No, scratch that, SHE didn't overlook that, LINK overlooked that.

It was Link who made the wish, not Hylia. Link screwed up her plan.

No you were right the first time. Hylia overlooked that aspect. It's not Link's fault. As you said, all this stuff was predestined. So Hylia predestined a plan that would fail. Nowhere in Hylia's plan did it include nudging Link on the shoulder and saying, "Psst, make sure you make the wish in the past."

Because by the time Wind Waker came around, Ganondorf already did his little OoT dance. The Triforce was attuned to Zelda, Link and Ganondorf already. In SS, the Triforce is attuned to nobody.

Idk where this "attuning" business comes from, but if it's that simple, Link should've been able to call forth the Triforce once he got all the marks on his hand. But he couldn't. It was "attuned" to him as it was attuned to the three in WW, but in WW the attuning was enough to bring it forth, in SS it wasn't. Why?

They have an origin, I just think that Ninty wants to keep it secret, and I fully support them on that decision. The Sheikah are interesting for their mystery, largely.

They're a really powerful tribe. Even creating three artifacts to make a man a god. (Lens of Truth, Mask of Truth, Stone of Agony. See truth, speak truth, feel truth)

The weird thing is, we know nothing about the Sheikah. Nothing. They're basically the backstagers of Hyrule.

That's exactly the problem. They're a powerful tribe, but their power goes unexplained throughout the entire series. If they're so powerful, you'd think they'd be very major influences. I doubt Nintendo's keeping it a secret. They probably haven't developed one yet. But, prior to SS, we knew them only as the servants of the Royal Family, but now we know them as servants of the Goddess. Before, we could assume that they arose when Hyrule did, but now they predate EVERYTHING. Nintendo's changing the story, and that calls for explanation.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

God this all has been a while. I'm enjoying it, thanks Mura!

I don't think that's the case with this game. What reason does Nintendo have to make an origin story for people who wouldn't care about it?

Of course story is important, but it comes second. I guess this could be settled as difference in reading Ninty's intentions.

Don't forget AlttP, Minish cap, and Four Swords. It's just really strange that the areas start off with those names, then the names are changed in OoT, then the names resurface in TP. It's like something happened in that time that was meant to conceal Hylian history.

Between SS and TP, there's only OoT (and MM but that's in Termina).
Now we have to realize, the names given to these areas are told to us by Fi. Without Fi, humans are free to give the areas names.
What I think happened is that after SS, the humans gave everything their own name. Afterwards, people started finding hints of the old society, and decided to rename the lands. It's pure theory though, the subject is all vague and untouched.

The weird thing here is that there's a bug called the GERUDO Dragonfly found in Lanaryu Desert. There are no Gerudo's.

It's possible that, like Etecoon pointed out, that this is just a PART of the actual Hyrule overworld, like LoZ had.

Again, I ask why is "hatred" so powerful? Is his hatred a conscious being that can choose who to manifest itself in? And if so, HOW can it do it when it was supposed to be sealed away in the Master Sword?

I think its not that hatred is powerful, it is DEMISE's hatred that is. I think the pedestal is the lock and the master sword is the key. Once the key goes out, lock is open.

Demise's hatred is in the Sword, not the pedestal. you see the little black dust go into the Sword and it is then that his hatred is sealed, not when Link puts the Sword in the pedestal. This is even more evident because Ganondorf was evil even before Link pulls out the Master Sword. The Sword being in the pedestal has nothing to do with it.

Ganondorf was evil in a completely different way though. At first his intentions were limited to helping the Gerudo. It was the pride of his people. After the Sword is pulled out, Link has slept and Ganon has the Triforce of Power, he starts wanting to conquer the world.

The thing here is;
Is it the Triforce of Power that corrupted him, or Demise's hatred living forth in him?

Overall, this is arguing semantics. They quite literally state that Demise's hatred will live on.

An incarnation of my hatred shall ever follow your kind

I think the only logical conclusion is that they were created using the same means. Hylia has no reason to make Fi in Ghirahim's image. Hell, he's evil, why would she create a sword in the image of another evil sword?

What would these means be?
I disagree. If your opponent uses war tanks while you have none, wouldn't you copy him? Hylia recognizes the power of Ghirahim and decides that it would be useful in her Hero's quest.

Above all, I think it IMPOSSIBLE that Hylia created the Master Sword. Why? Because then she could've done the exact same thing to Demise that Link did. She can't use the Triforce, but it says nothing about her not being able to use the Master Sword.

Wrong.

"The Master Sword is a sacred blade which evil ones may never touch.... Only one worthy of the title of "Hero of Time" can pull it from the Pedestal of Time...."
— Rauru

It says something similar in SS.

But I do agree that the Goddess probably didn't possess the Master Sword itself. The bolded is a really good point.

No you were right the first time. Hylia overlooked that aspect. It's not Link's fault. As you said, all this stuff was predestined. So Hylia predestined a plan that would fail. Nowhere in Hylia's plan did it include nudging Link on the shoulder and saying, "Psst, make sure you make the wish in the past."

Hylia is a Goddess. It's more likely that a mere human screws up the plan than Hylia, a Goddess.
The original plan was for Hylia to use the Triforce, remember? She gave up her immortal form just to be able to use the Triforce, but didn't end up using it at all. Sigh, Nintendo. Just sigh.

Idk where this "attuning" business comes from, but if it's that simple, Link should've been able to call forth the Triforce once he got all the marks on his hand. But he couldn't. It was "attuned" to him as it was attuned to the three in WW, but in WW the attuning was enough to bring it forth, in SS it wasn't. Why?

Because the Triforce wasn't linked to anyone yet in SS. In WW, the events of OoT have passed. The Triforce of Courage now corresponds to Link. The Triforce of Power now corresponds to Ganon. The Triforce of Wisdom now corresponds to Zelda. This was not the case in SS.

That's exactly the problem. They're a powerful tribe, but their power goes unexplained throughout the entire series. If they're so powerful, you'd think they'd be very major influences. I doubt Nintendo's keeping it a secret. They probably haven't developed one yet. But, prior to SS, we knew them only as the servants of the Royal Family, but now we know them as servants of the Goddess. Before, we could assume that they arose when Hyrule did, but now they predate EVERYTHING. Nintendo's changing the story, and that calls for explanation.

They probably have major influences. That could be anything from helping the Hero to helping the Zora evolve into Rito using their magic. It's all unknown though, and what you're saying is as ungrounded as anything regarding Sheikah.

If they're going to get explored, I think the Sheikah deserve their own ****ing game. They're amazing and have sooooo much potential.

 

[MuraRengan]

God this all has been a while. I'm enjoying it, thanks Mura!


Of course story is important, but it comes second. I guess this could be settled as difference in reading Ninty's intentions.

And when the story comes second, you get the following major holes in the plot.

Between SS and TP, there's only OoT (and MM but that's in Termina).
Now we have to realize, the names given to these areas are told to us by Fi. Without Fi, humans are free to give the areas names.
What I think happened is that after SS, the humans gave everything their own name. Afterwards, people started finding hints of the old society, and decided to rename the lands. It's pure theory though, the subject is all vague and untouched.

The weird thing here is that there's a bug called the GERUDO Dragonfly found in Lanaryu Desert. There are no Gerudo's.

It's possible that, like Etecoon pointed out, that this is just a PART of the actual Hyrule overworld, like LoZ had.

That's an interesting idea, however, even though Fi told Link the names, what reason would the humans have to go calling it somewhere else. I'd imagine that Link would've conveyed to everyone the names of the different places as told by Fi, and I don't think the dragons would be very happy about people renaming their territories.

I think its not that hatred is powerful, it is DEMISE's hatred that is. I think the pedestal is the lock and the master sword is the key. Once the key goes out, lock is open.

This is never even hinted at. It's pure theory that is also negated by the fact that Demise was sealed BEFORE link put the sword in the pedestal.

Ganondorf was evil in a completely different way though. At first his intentions were limited to helping the Gerudo. It was the pride of his people. After the Sword is pulled out, Link has slept and Ganon has the Triforce of Power, he starts wanting to conquer the world.

The thing here is;
Is it the Triforce of Power that corrupted him, or Demise's hatred living forth in him?

Ganondorf wanted the Triforce from the very beginning. It's never stated in OoT that he wanted to help the Gerudo, although it could be implied from WW (though their are some doubts there too). Making the Great Deku Tree ill, sealing up Death Mountain, forging Ruto's note and leaving it a Lake Hylia. All of these were Ganon's way of manipulating Link into opening the Sacred Realm. His aim was always the Triforce before he had even obtained it, so it's unlikely that he was corrupted by it. He was evil and did evil things to get his way. Whether "his way" was initially to help the Gerudo or to take over Hyrule, we can't be sure.

Overall, this is arguing semantics. They quite literally state that Demise's hatred will live on.

My problem is that the game provides no answer as to why and how Demise's hatred can live on in such a way. From what the game shows us, everything that is Demise, including his hatred, should be in the Master Sword. Why is this one thing about him exempt from that? If he's "just that powerful" then does that make him more powerful thna th eMaster Sword? If so, then why did he lose?

What would these means be?
I disagree. If your opponent uses war tanks while you have none, wouldn't you copy him? Hylia recognizes the power of Ghirahim and decides that it would be useful in her Hero's quest.

I didn't claim to know that the means are, but I think that's the closest we can come to understanding the swords and their spirits. As for Hylia creating the sword and Fi in the other Sword and Ghirahim's likeness, I still say it's not likely. Demise's Sword looks similar to the Master Sword. The Sword Hylia created does not. I think the only reason that Ghirahim and Fi are similar is because they were created in an ordered process that was familiar to both Demise and Hylia. But the fact that the Goddess Sword ends up looking similar to another existing sword is something interesting in itself. Hylia created the Goddess Sword and left behind all the Goddess Flames for Link to find. It's possible that she knew what the Master Sword would look like, but the question is, why didn't she just do it herself?

Wrong.


It says something similar in SS.

But I do agree that the Goddess probably didn't possess the Master Sword itself. The bolded is a really good point.

I figured you'd point that out, but you do understand that the only other possibility is that Hylia created a sword that she herself couldn't use, which is pretty dumb. She created Fi and the Goddess Sword, what I question is whether or not she created the Goddess Flames. They're the only thing I can think of that could've possibly prevented her from upgrading the sword to the Master Sword and just sealing Demise away herself.

Hylia is a Goddess. It's more likely that a mere human screws up the plan than Hylia, a Goddess.

The Golden Goddesses have done some pretty stupid things too. Not sending the hero in the time before WW and just deciding to flood Hyrule was pretty dumb. giving Ganondorf the Triforce of power in TP was also pretty dumb. For the sake of argument, lets not assume that the divine creatures are infallible. I mean, I could make the same argument that since everything that happened to Link was predestined, it was literally impossible for him to deviate from her plan. Her plan was bad.

The original plan was for Hylia to use the Triforce, remember? She gave up her immortal form just to be able to use the Triforce, but didn't end up using it at all. Sigh, Nintendo. Just sigh.

I guess she never realized that if she seals herself away to keep Demise sealed, she can't actually use the Triforce. Another blunder on her part.

Because the Triforce wasn't linked to anyone yet in SS. In WW, the events of OoT have passed. The Triforce of Courage now corresponds to Link. The Triforce of Power now corresponds to Ganon. The Triforce of Wisdom now corresponds to Zelda. This was not the case in SS.

By the time Link obtains the third flame, he has all three of the marks of the Triforce. Those marks are the only thing we have to go on as to who the triforce responds to, and in SS that would be Link. The only other possibility is that he has the marks, but they don't necessarily mean anything.

 

[Spire]

Man, how do I even begin to respond to this super-quoted conversation?? Guess I'll start by addressing these questions:

Q: Why are the three symbols of Din, Nayru, and Farore seen this early, but don't resurface until Windwaker? Why are the Eldin, Lanayru, and Faron areas seen this early, omitted in every other game, and then resurface in TP?

A: Symbols can be lost in time. Consider our own world's ancient civilizations. It wasn't until the early 20th century that the contemporary world knew much about Ancient Egypt at all. It was vastly unknown. Upon discovering the Rosetta Stone and further excavating just about every tomb they could, we uncovered tons of symbology, revealing a better understanding of these people. Upon the Hylians descending from Skyloft to populate the surface, they might not necessarily pay much attention to ancient symbolism, especially when those symbols mean NOTHING to them culturally. Why they'd instead flock to the winged crest at the ruins of the Temple of Time? Because wings mean a lot to this culture. Just consider the symbols to be buried for a time.

As for the provincial names, they might arise in a later era when the people of Hyrule start researching the land in which they live, translating ancient texts (as Shad did in TP with the Ancient Sky Book, an obvious reference to the Rosetta Stone) and uncovering lost truths about the world. While Shad did not name the provinces, the book already existed. Consider for a moment that certain truths about the world in which we live can easily evade our comprehension, and thus cultures can grow over ancient names for lands. Surely the Native Americans did not call this land "America", nor did they refer to themselves as "Native Americans". See?

Q: What exactly is Demise and why does he have the power to place an eternal curse on the land AFTER he's been defeated? What is the relationship of Demise's Sword to the Master Sword? And Girahim's relation to Fi? Is Demise's hatred incarnate only in Ganondorf, or is it in every villain?

A: I don't know what Demise truly is. He is stated to be a demon, as Ghirahim and several other characters in the series have been dubbed. The demons apparently come from the depths of the earth (as mentioned in SS) to combat celestial beings. It's entirely possible that the golden goddesses are ancient aliens (as the ALttP manual mentions, they descend from a "distant nebula"). I guess we're fighting the planet then?

Remember when Malladus was first revealed? We did not know his name but based on his face, a lot of us assumed it was Train Ganon. Seeing as how it's not Ganon, Malladus may too have been a reincarnation of Demise.

As for Demise's sword. I believe his sword is a Master Sword. He was the master of Ghirahim and thus, wielded a Master Sword. Link was the master of Fi (as she so often referred to him by) and thus also wielded a Master Sword. The two were evenly matched, but Link canonically won the fight. His Master Sword absorbed Demise just as Demise's might have absorbed Link.

Q: Why did Hylia sent Skyloft to the sky even though she ultimately had the power to defeat and seal Demise away?

A: This was answered. But to corroborate Brosuke, she merely had the power to defeat and seal Demise away. Not permanently though.

Q: Given that Link ultimately gets all three Triforce marks on his hand yet he still needs to actually go and obtain the Triforce, what is the purpose of the Triforce mark and why does it seem, in other games, that the Triforce mark shows the presence of the Triforce with a person?

A: This confused me as well. As I activated the flames, I assumed I was mystically receiving the Triforce with each one. Every time a Triforce appeared on the back of one's hand prior to SS, it meant the character actually received the piece.

Q: How long have the Shiekah been around?

A: As Brosuke said, we'll probably never know. I kind of like it that way.

Q: Does Groose become the King of Hyrule?

A: Maybe. Gaepora might become king, but since that one Gossip Stone in OoT mentions, "Kaepora Gaebora is the reincarnation of an ancient sage," he may go on to attain Sagehood instead (or both!). Honestly, Groose might follow in Impa's wake as a Sage of Shadow. Groose might also end up cursed like Link and Zelda (since apart from Impa, who died, was the only other person to combat Demise in both the past and present). His curse could constitute ancestry to the Gerudo and Ganondorf. He was the only person in the game to have both red hair and yellow eyes.

Q: Etc. For an origin story, I feel as though it explained a couple things, and made a bunch of more complicated messes.

A: I feel the same way. I expected so many more answers (wtf with the Oocca guys?), but only a few questions of the countless raised since TP were answered. Geographically the world makes sense though. As far as that one guy on the ZI forums thinking the Ancient Cistern becomes the Forest Temple, lololololol.

@ Brosuke - yeah, Hylia must be the Goddess of Time. Seeing as how Zelda IS Hylia and the Sage of Time ca. OoT, it's not farfetched to assume she is also the Goddess of Time. As for this image:

Yeah, that could be the Happy Mask Salesman, second from right. However, of all Demise's minions in that pic—aside from Ghirahim—only that skull-faced dude stands out. The others are very inconspicuous. It very well could be the Happy Mask Salesman, but there's absolutely no way to know for sure. Maybe we'll get a sequel based in ancient Termina ?

 

[MuraRengan]

Here's another cool thought. IIRC, this is the first game to refer to the people as humans and not Hylians. Zelda is Hylia, so is it possible that the Hylians are descendents of Zelda and (assumedly) Link?

 

[Spire]

Yep. A lot of things do make sense and I'm thankful for that. A lot of questions I was asking of the game went unanswered, but other points of interest (like how the Hylians attained their name) were more or less explained. SS did a fair job catering to loremongers.

Edit: I was really disappointed to simply receive the Hylian Shield from Lanayru. I was always expecting the smith to fine-tune your very best shield into the Hylian Shield in honor of your bird. Was Link predestined to ride a crimson loftwing as well? Predestiny is bull**** and I wish the bulk of the story was not contingent on it.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

"Ganon... this beast was once of the Gerudo... Once human. He was called Ganondorf! King of Darkness, ancient demon reborn."
— Princess Zelda

Ancient demon reborn.
This could refer to older Ganons... or not.

Despite his negative qualities, it has been hinted that his primary reason for wanting to conquer Hyrule, at least initially, was to make life better for his people, the Gerudo, as they lived a life full of suffering due to living in the desert. Interestingly, he seems to follow a code of honor; in Ocarina of Time, Ganondorf is amused and almost impressed when a young, helpless Link drew his weapons at him. Effortlessly knocking Link away, Ganondorf let the boy live despite his defiance, acknowledging some respect for his courage. When he knocks Link down, he will wait for Link to get up before continuing a fight. In addition, when he realizes that Zelda keeps on attacking him with the Light Arrows whenever he fights Link, he swiftly approaches Zelda, and when he could easily just cut her down, he instead puts away his sword and backhands her instead.

On Ganondorf's intentions.

I really do think Hylia made Fi to resemble Ghirahim.

Also, flooding Hyrule was probably because there was never a vessel who was able to house the full potential of the Hero until WW Link was born.

They didn't give Ganondorf the Triforce. The Triforce was Ganondorfs since he touched it at OoT. He never lost it, even if it was in his physical possession or not.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I was referring to the small one next to the skull guy.

Edit: I was really disappointed to simply receive the Hylian Shield from Lanayru. I was always expecting the smith to fine-tune your very best shield into the Hylian Shield in honor of your bird. Was Link predestined to ride a crimson loftwing as well? Predestiny is bull**** and I wish the bulk of the story was not contingent on it.

Yeah this **** had me pissed too.
I thought the Crimson Loftwing on the Hylian Shield was based on SS Link's deeds, but apparently it's already on there. Also getting it from Lanaryu was a disappointment. I wish they wouldn't have included it at all.
An unbreakable shield is broken. The shield mechanic overall is broken already, with the Goddess Shield regenerating fast as **** and thus being practically unbreakable.
They should've made shield bash cost like 49% stamina AND still deplete shield durability.

 

[Spire]

Man, the truth was right under our nose the whole time. "Ancient demon reborn". Ha!

The introduction of Demise will surely change our confrontations with Ganon while replaying older Zelda games from here on out.

Edit: Remember how Fi's description of Demise states that his appearance changes depending on the person viewing him? Guess that explains his silly look in the pic above. He so obviously looked like Ganondorf in the final fight though. It's not like everyone in future Hyrule looks at Ganondorf and sees a totally different person... do they? Why would Demise specifically reincarnate as a dude who resembles his humanoid form from the final confrontation in SS? Because that was his last form before being sealed away in the Master Sword? I don't quite understand this tidbit, but it's fine I guess. It's interesting that the Master Sword must later be used to seal away Demise once again (though in the form of Ganondorf). I wonder if Demise had completely deteriorated within the Master Sword by Ocarina of Time? If not, Link was essentially fighting Ganon with Demise.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

The thing that has me wondering is WHY is Ganon known to use a trident and not a sword?

After navigating it and defeating Dagtail, Link arrives at the Trident's chamber. The inscription near the stone slab states that the Trident it had contained contains an evil spirit that would fill the Trident's holder with evil power, making them worthy of the title of "King of Darkness."

it fits the Swords description to a T =/

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Edit: Remember how Fi's description of Demise states that his appearance changes depending on the person viewing him? Guess that explains his silly look in the pic above. He so obviously looked like Ganondorf in the final fight though. It's not like everyone in future Hyrule looks at Ganondorf and sees a totally different person... do they? Why would Demise specifically reincarnate as a dude who resembles his humanoid form from the final confrontation in SS? Because that was his last form before being sealed away in the Master Sword? I don't quite understand this tidbit, but it's fine I guess. It's interesting that the Master Sword must later be used to seal away Demise once again (though in the form of Ganondorf). I wonder if Demise had completely deteriorated within the Master Sword by Ocarina of Time? If not, Link was essentially fighting Ganon with Demise.

No I don't remember that. But fine.

I think that they simply looked alike because of the flaming hair (Ganons hair is red colored) and body structure. I think it's just the basic intimidating look. Walk slowly and be large.

I really think that Demise's hatred gets released as the sword gets reawakened. Above all, if anything, having Demise in the Master Sword would weaken it rather than strengthen it. The MS wields the force of light, Demise being in the MS would work against that.

-------------------------------------------------


Since NoA failed on this subject, we will look at the japanese translations relevent to the trident in FSA.

The man who took the Trident, the evil "ja-ki" of the demon resurrected from ancient times

Now this leaves us with the question of what is a "ja-ki." Jumbie, a well known translator for the Zelda community believe it meant "tool or device" essentially being the ancient demon's weapon.

=/

However, Prime Blue, another translator insisted it meant "vessel." This is supported by other quotes in FSA relating to the trident.

We...grant you...power to
...ruin...the world. The
power of...darkness.

Evil...spirit of
magic trident.

You are...the...
King of Darkness.

[collapse="full quote"]… … …
Seek …you…the world?
Seek you…power?

Does your…soul…despise
Peace and… thirst for…
More?

Does you soul…cry…
For…destruction and…
Conquest?

We…grant you… power to
… ruin…the world. The
power of…darkness.

Evil… spirit of
Magic trident.

You are…the…
King of Darkness.[/collapse]


If the trident is a vessel for a spirit. It would mean that Ganondorf was the man who took up the spirit housed in the trident, allowing him to become the King of Darkness.


Now looking back, his weapon is both a TOOL and a VESSEL. Meaning it all lines up.
-------------
A common theory is that Ganondorf's alter ego (Ganon) is a transformation that takes place through the use of the triforce of power, yet in FSA Ganondorf transforms into Ganon without the triforce of power, he transforms under the will of the trident.

 

[Spire]

Yeah, I can't say anything about the Trident. It's just super ambiguous. Phantom Ganon had a Trident in OoT, suggesting that the Trident probably exists somewhere in Hyrule before that time...

...anyways, how about that Silent Realm? Remember when we obtained the Triforces from the Sky Keep, you basically warped into Silent Realm chambers to do so? Because the Triforce is known to lie dormant in the Sacred Realm, could the Silent Realm be a precursor? On the topic of the Triforce, at the end of SS, the Triforce hovered peacefully in the hands of the statue of Hylia. It obviously doesn't stay there. We know that at some point in time between SS and OoT, the races of Hyrule discover the secret to the ancient relic and war over it, thus the Hyrule Civil War. As such, the sages seal the Triforce away in the Sacred Realm. In order to access the Silent Realm however, one must thrust the Master Sword into select locations marked by the Goddesses.

Now I brought this up because I wanted to discuss the Guardians:

They are pristinely white, robotic, and well, terrifying. Conceptually, they are based on the Phantoms from PH/ST, but aesthetically, they closely resemble the Ancient Sages from TP:

Now, apparently Rauru from OoT was an Ancient Sage. He mentioned that he and the other Ancient Sages created the Master Sword and built the Temple of Time. Now the Master Sword aspect may have been retconned, but he may definitely have helped [re]build the Temple of Time in its Lanayru Desert location. Seeing as how Link drops the Master Sword in the pedestal in the Sealed Temple at the end of SS, it must be assumed that it is removed and replaced in the Lanayru Temple of Time (I guess we can refer to them as the Lanayru and Hylia Temples of Time). Sometime between OoT and TP, the Master Sword is once again moved back to Hylia's Temple of Time where it remains until the area is redubbed the "Sacred Grove". Don't know where I'm going with this, just making connections.

 

[Spire]

No I don't remember that. But fine.

I really think that Demise's hatred gets released as the sword gets reawakened. Above all, if anything, having Demise in the Master Sword would weaken it rather than strengthen it. The MS wields the force of light, Demise being in the MS would work against that.

Well, she did say it. I could find the quote I guess, but **** it I'm lazy. Someone else has bound to read it so hopefully they'll back my claim.

But wow, you just answered a big question I was kind of asking in my last post. Perhaps Ganondorf was born because the Master Sword was moved from the Sealed Temple to the rebuilt Temple of Time. Upon being removed from the pedestal, Demise's hatred was able to leak out and reincarnate. With that being said, Demise's curse was contingent on the instability of mortals trying to live in a land with the Triforce available. Perhaps he knew that one day the Master Sword would need to be drawn to stop a cataclysmic war and would thus return in a new form. Hence the birth of Ganondorf.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I think the Silent Realm is a mental realm. The Sacred Realm just seems so different =/
Plus, the Triforce is split in the Silent Realm. How weird is that?!

I think this is this a stylization though. ->

I also think that the Sealed Temple goes on to be the Temple of Time, not the one in Lanaryu Desert. It may be a Temple by name, but it's literally nothing more than a wall, a crest and a door of time. It doesn't even have the Sword pedestal =/

I think it will become the Arbiters Ground.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Well, she did say it. I could find the quote I guess, but **** it I'm lazy. Someone else has bound to read it so hopefully they'll back my claim.

But wow, you just answered a big question I was kind of asking in my last post. Perhaps Ganondorf was born because the Master Sword was moved from the Sealed Temple to the rebuilt Temple of Time. Upon being removed from the pedestal, Demise's hatred was able to leak out and reincarnate. With that being said, Demise's curse was contingent on the instability of mortals trying to live in a land with the Triforce available. Perhaps he knew that one day the Master Sword would need to be drawn to stop a cataclysmic war and would thus return in a new form. Hence the birth of Ganondorf.

The Master Sword can't be held by anyone who isn't the Hero of Time. If it was to be moved, it would have to be moved while still in the pedestal. Thus my theory of the Sealing Spike being the Master Sword+Pedestal, magically enhanced by Impa to seal Demise, explaining the absence of the Master Sword in the present time.

 

[Spire]

I think the Sand Sea becomes the Gerudo Desert and any one of its structural locations a site for the Spirit Temple/Arbiter's Grounds. I think the Temple of Time in Lanayru Desert might just become Hyrule Castle.

The Temple of Time from OoT kind of ruins EVERYTHING. It should have been in the forest from the getgo. Then every instance of the ToT would be sound. Seeing as how the Temple of Time (or some derelict form of it) is always in a forest sans OoT (Lost Woods in ALttP, Sacred Grove in TP, Sealed Grounds in SS), the OoT location may not be canon after all. Or maybe it is!

Edit: If the Sealing Spike was an ancient Master Sword, then... we'd be whacking it with a new Master Sword? Also, now that we know the Hero of Time from OoT is not the first, there could have been another predating that story, but after SS.

Also, I remember an interview with Aonuma pre-SS release saying, "you will revisit familiar locations that aren't just part of Hyrule." Can you think of any places from SS that weren't part of Hyrule that we'd be familiar with? The Silent Realm isn't necessarily part of it. Demise's ocean realm isn't necessarily part of it. Where else? Perhaps one of those two places is more than we are told.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I think the Sand Sea becomes the Gerudo Desert and any one of its structural locations a site for the Spirit Temple/Arbiter's Grounds. I think the Temple of Time in Lanayru Desert might just become Hyrule Castle.

The Temple of Time from OoT kind of ruins EVERYTHING. It should have been in the forest from the getgo. Then every instance of the ToT would be sound. Seeing as how the Temple of Time (or some derelict form of it) is always in a forest sans OoT (Lost Woods in ALttP, Sacred Grove in TP, Sealed Grounds in SS), the OoT location may not be canon after all. Or maybe it is!

The weird thing is that in terms of structure it's pretty alike to the Sacred Grove in TP. Which reminds me, did anyone think that when opening the doors in TP, it reminds you of how Timeshift Stones work?

But yeah, a double temple theory might be sound. With the sword moving positions. I like it.

Edit: If the Sealing Spike was an ancient Master Sword, then... we'd be whacking it with a new Master Sword? Also, now that we know the Hero of Time from OoT is not the first, there could have been another predating that story, but after SS.

Not an ancient master sword. The time loop makes things confusing. You know how when you end the game, you plant the sword in the pedestal. Now fast forward til you first enter the temple, the sword should still be there from when you beat Demise in the past. Now I think that Impa took that sword and used it as the sealing spike. Notice how it's not there in the past yet.

It makes sense as we're using the (alpha version of) the master sword to reinforce a seal made by the master sword.


Note: I do not believe in there being multiple master swords. There's 1, and it's Links.

 

[Spire]

Man, upon discovering the timeshift zones, I remember thinking, "****, how many instances throughout the series could potentially be using these stones?" The Temple of Time in TP totally has a timeshift gate or something. This new series element could potentially retcon so much. What if the Temple of Time in OoT was really under the influence of a timeshift stone and thus never actually existed in the present? What if the time we warp back to in TP is far before even SS?

Did Link place the sword in the pedestal in the past or present?

How does Impa have the power to transform the sword into the sealing spike?

...

What if the Temple of Time was never rebuilt and only by the cultivation and use of timeshift stones could it be entered, but in actuality the enterer is stepping into the past.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Sheikah... They're everywhere.


He placed it in the past.



Impa has literally thousands of years. She could be practicing magic each day. Hell she is even shown to hold off Ghirahim, sword of a Demon God powerful enough to stand equal to a Goddess. AND THATS BEFORE THE AGES OF TIME PASSES.

I think it'd be relatively easy sealing magic to get that sealing spike there. Doesn't it make sense to you? You're hitting the sealing spike to damage Demise after all, and he has a scar on his forehead where the spike is.



HOWEVER we must consider that the timeshift stones show a clear line deciding whether or not you're in past or present terrain. This isn't a problem with the TP doors, but it is with the ToT in OoT

 

[MuraRengan]

On Ganondorf's intentions.

IIRC, the only time it's hinted that Ganon wants to help the Gerudo is his speech in WW. However, with the introduction of the Demise concept, that idea could go out the window. Since Ganondorf is a reincarnation of Demise's hatred, which is specifically a hatred of the Goddesses, the point of his entire speech could've been to try to convince Link and Zelda to hate the Goddesses too. This is supported by the fact that the most dramatic and emphasized line in that dialogue is the phrase, "Your gods destroyed you!"

But I don't really care for Ganon's intentions. I'm just bothered by the nature of Demise's "defeat."

Also, flooding Hyrule was probably because there was never a vessel who was able to house the full potential of the Hero until WW Link was born.

They didn't give Ganondorf the Triforce. The Triforce was Ganondorfs since he touched it at OoT. He never lost it, even if it was in his physical possession or not.

The Goddesses created the entire world and all the people in it. I'm pretty sure they're plenty able to make a vessel to be the Hero.

Also, I'd like to point out, that TP Ganondorf never touched the Triforce. That's the child timeline. Link never opened the Sacred Realm by removing the Master Sword, so Ganondorf never touched the Triforce. It was definitely given to him by the Goddesses.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Can you remind me how removing the sword opened up the sacred realm? I forgot how that works.

also ganon isnt a reincarnation of demise's hatred, but he definitely bears the hatred

 

[MuraRengan]

Idk exactly how it works, but OoT shows it pretty clearly the first time Link grabs the Master Sword. Watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LIbmCd-GPfw#t=106s

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Notes of interest:

- the temple is almost identical to hylias temple except for the pedestal being in the room where zelda sealed herself
- ganondorf mentions the Door of Time by name. *insert time travel+triforce theory*

 

[Teran]

The fste of the Loftwing

 

[MuraRengan]

Notes of interest:

- the temple is almost identical to hylias temple except for the pedestal being in the room where zelda sealed herself
- ganondorf mentions the Door of Time by name. *insert time travel+triforce theory*

Yes I noticed that too. I think there's a high chance that that place is the Temple of Time in OoT. As for moving the sword, someone may not be able to wield it themselves, but maybe they can chisel away the ground from the pedestal and move it that way. *shrug*