Simple facts that you may not know...

[Morin0]

If you guys don't agree with my FACTS about a video game than you will be sorry.

Fixed.

 

[Studstill]

There should be a go-around-the-great-fox-with-2-Luigis tournament at APEX (2 people per team; team that goes the farthest wins). Single elimination best of 1

https://advancedbrackets.com/viewTournament.aspx?id=5235

Also Shears` Drunk Smash is up as well.

 

[NFMLH2]

Cool thread. I learned some knew things.

 

[Herbert Von Karajan]

To be clear, I`m trying to state things technically, to be most representative of the 1s and 0s that make up this game, so when you talk about higher level concepts like "being knocked down" or "soft/weak" without understanding that the game has no IDEA what you are talking about is stupid. It`s just stupid.

OK so the creators of the game wrote it in machine code.

People really should stop saying RNG. Everything has a percent chance of happening; that doesn`t mean a coin flip is the same as a dice roll, nor should you describe 'things that have a chance of happening' as "RNG". It`s intellectually abhorrent.

@ Madao I didn`t bring it up because it has nothing to do with my point, but thanks for "explaining" RNG. The chances of an item being dropped, Kirby losing his power, the tornado location, whether or not a box will explode, what pokemon will fly by or what pokemon will come out, all of these and many more have fixed percentage chances of occurring.
Words and concepts that are not interchangeable but similar and therefore should be avoided:
Random, Random Generated Number, Random Number Generator (formal), Random Number Generator, psuedo-random number, etc etc.

where do you think the fixed % comes from retart? here is how it works in the code:
if (RNG.get_next() > value) do_thing();
since i am just like 100% of other programmers, i cant tell you what the binary code is, so sorry for not being up to your technical standards

I`m sayign that when someone says when will the tornado spawn, or what are the chances of me losing my Kirby power, that saying "RNG dude" is a pretend answer that yields no value.

The tornado spawns every 20 seconds. The tornado spawns after a random amount of time. NOPE I SEE NO VALUE HERE EITHER U R RIGHT STUDSTILL

]
Yes, exactly, my problem isn`t the truth of this explanation of fact, my problem is when this explanation is shortened to 'RNG, dude' and then used as a response to "whatare the chances of dropping an item if I get hit?".

OK retart the original question wasn't what is the chance, it was WHY does it happen:

Speaking of dropping items, does anyone know the logic involved in determining that?

The logic = if (RNG.get_next() > value) drop_item();

"Speaking of dropping items, does anyone know the logic involved in determining [dropping items]?
Sometimes I pick up an item and it drops on the first [9ish percent chance], and other times I keep it in my hand and take multiple [9ish percent chances] before it goes away."

Which is my point [that i am a ****ing retart], your answer says nothing to answer [the incorrect way that i interpreted his question because i have no reading comprehension skills]

I simply asked what determines items to be dropped. If it's based on RNG, that's a good enough answer for me.

lol just got to where madeo basicly summed this up too
studstill, you are almost always wrong.

 

[BananaBolts]

To be clear, I`m trying to state things technically, to be most representative of the 1s and 0s that make up this game, so when you talk about higher level concepts like "being knocked down" or "soft/weak" without understanding that the game has no IDEA what you are talking about is stupid. It`s just stupid. Because it`s vague to the point of inaccuracy.

Looking back, this completely nullifies any point you tried to make about the logic behind item drop rate.

Yes, computers are essentially 1s an 0s but HIGHER LEVEL LANGUAGES EXIST FOR A REASON.
Programmers have built these higher level languages to make programming easier for us to understand and debug.
Sure, "RNG, bro" is vague but it gets a point across: the variable that determines a dropped or held item is determined by a pseudo-random number generator that sends a number back to the function it was called from and assigns it to a value to be tested by a line of code that has set parameters for the aforementioned variable's drop/held status.

Further more, what's wrong with using intuitive terms such as "being knocked down" or "soft/weak"? It allows us to communicate with one another without getting into unnecessary complexity.

You said, "the game has no IDEA what you are talking about".

If you were to speak in terms that people didn't understand, rather than computers not understanding what "soft" and "weak" is, threads would look like this:

-"Why does ____ happen?"
- "Because of this:
01000011 01100001 01101110 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01100101 01110110 01100101 01101110 00100000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101001 01110011 00101100 00100000 01010011 01110100 01110101 01100100 01110011 01110100 01101001 01101100 01101100 00111111"

Do you see how absurd that is? People NEED terms, however vague, to communicate. If elaboration and explanation is wanted/required, it can be supplied with haste.

I know this post is coming a bit late but I needed to say something about it, seeing as it had been bugging me.

Important:
I don't mean any of this in hostility. I just want you to see how ridiculous some of this sounds.

 

[caneut]

I don't mean any of this in hostility. I just want you to see how ridiculous some of this sounds

Yeah get ready for him to take it all in hostility.

 

[Cedricwa]

Ugh. You guys don't even play with items anyways. Let's talk about what matters, like pizza.

 

[BananaBolts]

Ugh. You guys don't even play with items anyways. Let's talk about what matters, like pizza.

Link's bomb matters...

I play a game with my friends where we turn items on high and I can only use items to attack whereas they can use items and their entire moveset. However, if they are holding an item, I'm allowed to use any move against them.

Back to simple facts, you can fast fall Falcon Punch well before the animation ends.

Before a match begins, if you try to buffer a tilt with the control stick fully tilted, your move will be a smash instead of a tilt.

 

[Kimimaru]

Mario on Kirby: A well-timed level-2 staled weak F-air (deals 8%) combos into U-smash for a kill starting at roughly 48% and ending at roughly 90%.

 

[Beesy]

Kirby can be scooched around while he's a rock, but not uphill.

 

[Morin0]

Kirby can be scooched around while he's a rock, but not uphill.

#smashphysics

 

[KnitePhox]

SERVER DELAY for LAN
0-16 = 1frame
17-33 = 2frames
34-49 = 3frames
50-66 = 4frames
67-83 = 5frames
84-99 = 6frames
100-?? = whyyoudodis

 

[Combo Blaze]

how about p2p? (that seems to be a bit different)

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

just double the server ping and that's your delay

for example: 3 frame delay p2p would be 98ms ish(99 actually). for some reason the "newer" p2p client makes it so it's different than that, you should just spoof to the delay you calculated instead of letting the p2p client do it for you.

 

[firo]

You can figure out the calculation quite easily:

1000 milliseconds in 1 second

60 frames per second

1 frame = 1000/60 = 16.67 ms

The delay frames are pretty much at their physical limit (your keypresses are spending less than 1ms being processed on the server, or on your computer via p2p). That's why having a stable connection and good ping are much more important factors for online play and have a much greater impact than can be gained from any improvements in kaillera or p2p code.

It is also why games that run at 30fps, like mario tennis, or mario kart, perform better for online since they have double the time to send your key presses.

 

[Fireblaster]

It is also why games that run at 30fps, like mario tennis, or mario kart, perform better for online since they have double the time to send your key presses.

"better" as in they already have that double input lag from 30 fps so it TECHNICALLY can run with less frames of input lag but it's still the same amount of time of input lag

 

[Twilight Sparkle]

So I was playing on console with my brother and sister and this happened. Didn't think something like this could happen.

Swear, we both just stopped and stared at the screen for a good 10 minutes.

 

[Beesy]

If you're doing the above on the left side of DL and get blown off, the player with the lower port number will die first, so if you're both on last stock, the player with the higher port number would win. Also, it looks pretty cool when two characters do this because the colors sort of overlap.

 

[BananaBolts]

If you're doing the above on the left side of DL and get blown off, the player with the lower port number will die first, so if you're both on last stock, the player with the higher port number would win. Also, it looks pretty cool when two characters do this because the colors sort of overlap.

I'm pretty sure that port 4 wins in a last stock scenario.

 

[Kahnu]

I'm pretty sure that port 4 wins in a last stock scenario.

I'm pretty sure its the highest port.

 

[BananaBolts]

Well, i was going off of what SK said:
(and I could swear that I've seen it before)

same frame grab vs grab is 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 gets the grab

same frame ledge grab is 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 gets the grab

same frame multiple people grabbing someone is 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 gets the grab

same frame one grab hitting multiple people is 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 gets grabbed

same frame grab item is 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 gets the item

same frame last stock deaths is 4 > 3 > 2 > 1 victory

maybe there's more this is top of my head

of course if I want to make the pattern consistent I could say 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 dies first for same frame last stock death, all about perspective idk how it's explicitly coded or whatever probably irrelevent

Is SK wrong or am I misinterpreting this post?

 

[Beesy]

We're all in agreement I think, player 1 dies first.

 

[BananaBolts]

I'll test this out. I thought I remember dying at the same time and losing in a friendly. Maybe I wasn't port 1...

 

[firo]

"better" as in they already have that double input lag from 30 fps so it TECHNICALLY can run with less frames of input lag but it's still the same amount of time of input lag

If we are talking in terms of time instead of frames, then yes, this is true. However I'm not sure if 1 delay frame at 30 FPS is the same as 2 delay frames at 60 FPS, since in the latter case the game is further ahead when your key gets processed. (this gets amplified more when it's something like 3 vs 6 frames).

Regardless though, in 30 FPS your computer is sending and receiving half the data, which reduces the chances of desyncs and lag due to congestion.

 

[Shears]

So I was playing on console with my brother and sister and this happened. Didn't think something like this could happen.

Swear, we both just stopped and stared at the screen for a good 10 minutes.

What did I just watch? This looks like DK sodomy.

 

[KnitePhox]

careful shears, you don't wana post in a bunch of threads in a small amount of time with different post topics; might get b&


lol teetering w/dk

if you get a dk to stand between two teetering players(opposite sides, duh) on hyrule tent, you can infinitely taunt cancel

added bonus of having the dk in the middle taunt himself : )

 

[BananaBolts]

If you're doing the above on the left side of DL and get blown off, the player with the lower port number will die first, so if you're both on last stock, the player with the higher port number would win. Also, it looks pretty cool when two characters do this because the colors sort of overlap.

We're all in agreement I think, player 1 dies first.

Dang it, Beesy. Your words were confusing me previously. What is up with this contradiction?

Try reading this again:

same frame last stock deaths is 4 > 3 > 2 > 1 victory

of course if I want to make the pattern consistent I could say 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 dies first for same frame last stock death, all about perspective idk how it's explicitly coded or whatever probably irrelevent

Yes, player 1 dies first which results in the lowest port, 4, being victorious. This is what I said before lol.

I'm pretty sure that port 4 wins in a last stock scenario.

Edit: Which ports are which in highest to lowest? Which is the acceptable usage?

port 1 = highest port
port 4 = lowest port

or is it vice verca?

maybe this was why I was confused earlier

 

[Beesy]

I meant that port 1 is lowest. It'll die first, and port 4 would win the game.Idk who miscommunicated or misunderstood, whatevs yo. I hope I'm being clear now.

 

[Kahnu]

 

[BananaBolts]

I've always considered player 1 to be the highest port; it seems pretty intuitive to me. *shrug*

Nice gif. That's exactly how I felt.

 

[Madao]

Probably for some things, player 1 has the highest advantage, and for other things, player 4 has the highest advantage. At least that's what I remember, from what other people have said. I guess I could TAS to find things out. I just realized, sometimes TAS is simpler and quicker than debugging ;/ . Debugging can be a hassle sometimes.

Any suggestions on what to test?

 

[BananaBolts]

Any suggestions on what to test?

Off of the top of my head:
Grabs (several scenarios)
Check tether grabs too. Could be different but I doubt it.
Last stock (check star KO too)
Ledge Grab
Item Grab (check to see if Link has priority over picking his own bomb back up. Could take priority??)
Congo Barrel
Kirby swallow
Chansey heals on Saffron. heal percentage could have priority.

That's all I've got for now. Anyone else have any ideas?

 

[Annex]

I'm curious as to how much grab priority effects games, especially for falcon dittos

 

[Tom Bombadil]

I'm curious as to how much flipping a coin affects falcon dittos

 

[BananaBolts]

Every character has the same shadow size except for DK. Amusingly, DK and Giant DK have the same shadow size.

 

[Annex]

dk's downb clanks with jigg's rest

 

[Cedricwa]

Tell me if you guys have known about this but I just found this out today on accident. When fox is in his full dash if you turn around on the ledge he'll grab it like a pivot to off the edge. I tried it with other characters and could only get ness and I think link to do it.

 

[BananaBolts]

dk's downb clanks with jigg's rest

What?! That's awesome.

On a less awesome note, Falcon can ledgehop and nair and still be able to re-grab the ledge. I prefer bair but nair works too.

Tell me if you guys have known about this but I just found this out today on accident. When fox is in his full dash if you turn around on the ledge he'll grab it like a pivot to off the edge. I tried it with other characters and could only get ness and I think link to do it.

I knew that about Fox but I never knew Ness could do it. I'm going to attempt it with Link soon.

 

[Cedricwa]

What?! That's awesome.

On a less awesome note, Falcon can ledgehop and nair and still be able to re-grab the ledge. I prefer bair but nair works too.

I knew that about Fox but I never knew Ness could do it. I'm going to attempt it with Link soon.

Link was really hard to do it with, I feel like I might have just done a normal pivot when I got it because I haven't gotten it again. But yeah it's not too hard with ness, and pretty easy with fox.

 

[The Star King]

Link can do it