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Sigma Busters (Name Pending): Official Discussion Thread

Kirbeh

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I still need to finish the move set write up, but here's the progress on Chell's design.

Screenshot 2024-03-21 224434.png

Yes, I know the gun looks really weird. I'm not used to drawing firearms and since you want it to be a mix of things, I've having trouble combining the different parts into something that works. Plus, because it's a space game I don't want it to look too much like a real gun and give the feel of a Star Fox blaster or something.
 
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Glubbfubb

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I still need to finish the move set write up, but here's the progress on Chell's design.

View attachment 386788
Yes, I know the gun looks really weird. I'm not used to drawing firearms and since you want it to be a mix of things, I've having trouble combining the different parts into something that works. Plus, because it's a space game I don't want it to look too much like a real gun and give the feel of a Star Fox blaster or something.
Quite like it, good start, though maybe the scarf being longer and redder might be better for her. And maybe some armor on her shoulders, maybe to better display how potent her shoulder bash attacks are.
 
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Kirbeh

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Quite like it, good start, though maybe the scarf being longer and redder might be better for her. And maybe some armor on her shoulders, maybe to better display how potent her shoulder bash attacks are.
I'll sketch up some shoulder pads, though my rework places less emphasis/removes most shoulder attacks actually. Given her body type and choice of weapon, I felt they don't suit her quite as much. I think those would be better suited to a traditional bruiser or other unarmed character. You already have this covered by EPSILON for example.

The frill-like collar would also partially obscure any shoulder gear which is why I omitted it this time around. Same goes for the scarf. Making it a long and flowing sort of deal would necessitate scrapping the frill collar. Which I don't mind doing personally, but I know you wanted to reference frilled lizards in some way.
 

Glubbfubb

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I'll sketch up some shoulder pads, though my rework places less emphasis/removes most shoulder attacks actually. Given her body type and choice of weapon, I felt they don't suit her quite as much. I think those would be better suited to a traditional bruiser or other unarmed character. You already have this covered by EPSILON for example.

The frill-like collar would also partially obscure any shoulder gear which is why I omitted it this time around. Same goes for the scarf. Making it a long and flowing sort of deal would necessitate scrapping the frill collar. Which I don't mind doing personally, but I know you wanted to reference frilled lizards in some way.
Yeah, maybe her collar is normal and when she performs her Cobra Eye Hypermax it frills like a Cobra. I think that would be neat, how about you?
 

Kirbeh

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Yeah, maybe her collar is normal and when she performs her Cobra Eye Hypermax it frills like a Cobra. I think that would be neat, how about you?
The collar randomly growing and flaring out still seems weird to me, and there's still the issue of clashing with the scarf. If you really want to go for something that looks like a cobra hood, I think we might be able to use her hair for that instead. Have it poof/flare up for certain attacks.

Screenshot 2024-03-21 232157.png
 

Glubbfubb

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The collar randomly growing and flaring out still seems weird to me, and there's still the issue of clashing with the scarf. If you really want to go for something that looks like a cobra hood, I think we might be able to use her hair for that instead. Have it poof/flare up for certain attacks.

View attachment 386789
Yeah that may be much better ngl, maybe normalize the collar then since that is the one element I dislike about the design, I don't recall referencing a frilled lizard, just a taipan, cobra, and komodo dragon, otherwise a solid design.
 
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Kirbeh

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Yeah that may be much better ngl, maybe normalize the collar then since that is the one element I dislike about the design, I don't recall referencing a frilled lizard, just a taipan, cobra, and komodo dragon, otherwise a solid design.
I actually did make a few small changes in the appearance bio, minor ones mainly but there are differences between the old and new one, mainly the cut of the long snake neck for some frills and a more obvert cobra inspiration.
You also mentioned neck frills in the full Chell post from last page. This might be another case of word choice confusion then. Cobras have hoods not frills, so when you used the word frills, I thought you wanted to reference cobras and frilled lizards.
 
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Glubbfubb

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You also mentioned neck frills in the full Chell post from last page. This might be another case of word choice confusion then. Cobras have hoods not frills, so when you used the word frills, I though you wanted to reference cobras and frilled lizards.
Oh sorry, my bad indeed, I did mean a hood, like a cobra hood. I need to word things better.
 

Glubbfubb

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Been thinking, I think it would be cool that for 1v1s, instead of standard stock battles, there would be a special round battle mode. Basically rather than each fighter having a set of lives essentially, KOing someone will reward the victor with a point, and afterwards the battle will reset with all the percents reverted back to zero, starting a new round, and the first to win 3 rounds will win. Your current meter is kept between rounds too, so those who keep a good stockpile of meter can save it for a fresh round. This essentially makes 1v1s play more closer to a traditional fighting game, which I think would be cool.

Another idea was that there would be two types of stages, knockout and enclosed arenas. Knockout arenas play like traditional platfighter stages, with the goal of knocking out someone off the stage. Meanwhile enclosed arenas are well enclosed areas, having no pits to fall under; instead, the goal is to defeat opponents in a stamina battle. Though I wonder if that would make the game feel like it lacks identity. What do you think, Kirbeh Kirbeh . Do you think focusing on the former or the latter would be more unique, and if the latter is the case I need to figure out a better way to balance heavies since I don't want to just give heavies more health.
 
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Kirbeh

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Been thinking, I think it would be cool that for 1v1s, instead of standard stock battles, there would be a special round battle mode. Basically rather than each fighter having a set of lives essentially, KOing someone will reward the victor with a point, and afterwards the battle will reset with all the percents reverted back to zero, starting a new round, and the first to win 3 rounds will win. Your current meter is kept between rounds too, so those who keep a good stockpile of meter can save it for a fresh round. This essentially makes 1v1s play more closer to a traditional fighting game, which I think would be cool.

Another idea was that there would be two types of stages, knockout and enclosed arenas. Knockout arenas play like traditional platfighter stages, with the goal of knocking out someone off the stage. Meanwhile enclosed arenas are well enclosed areas, having no pits to fall under; instead, the goal is to defeat opponents in a stamina battle. Though I wonder if that would make the game feel like it lacks identity. What do you think, Kirbeh Kirbeh . Do you think focusing on the former or the latter would be more unique, and if the latter is the case I need to figure out a better way to balance heavies since I don't want to just give heavies more health.
Resetting positions after every KO like a traditional fighter would work just fine, just bear in mind you'd likely get some criticism/pushback on it since it isn't what people are used to for platform fighters.

I think it's a perfectly viable option but I'd say to do some play testing on it first to see how it feels for you. It'll be an adjustment but ultimately a non issue once people grow accustomed.

As for stamina battles, I would say to keep the stage design focused on the percent/platform mode of play. Then simply add an option to wall things off for stamina battles if people want to.
 

Glubbfubb

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Resetting positions after every KO like a traditional fighter would work just fine, just bear in mind you'd likely get some criticism/pushback on it since it isn't what people are used to for platform fighters.

I think it's a perfectly viable option but I'd say to do some play testing on it first to see how it feels for you. It'll be an adjustment but ultimately a non issue once people grow accustomed.

As for stamina battles, I would say to keep the stage design focused on the percent/platform mode of play. Then simply add an option to wall things off for stamina battles if people want to.
Stuff like reseting positions don't seem something to complain about, if anything I think it can speed fights better since you don't have to wait for mercy invincibility from the safety platforms.

Also how's the write up on Chell's moveset looking?

DEV UPDATE - reworking a few stats and how they work, so I can make the stats and therefore code more clean and more well put together.
 

Kirbeh

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I did forget to mention that one potential downside is that the position reset would still need to be completely optional. If casuals are playing 1v1 and the match is constantly interrupted compared to what they're used to from Smash many would likely complain.

Even if the intent is to be more competitive focused, I don't think it should be mandatory if there's high potential for turning away casuals.
 

Glubbfubb

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I did forget to mention that one potential downside is that the position reset would still need to be completely optional. If casuals are playing 1v1 and the match is constantly interrupted compared to what they're used to from Smash many would likely complain.

Even if the intent is to be more competitive focused, I don't think it should be mandatory if there's high potential for turning away casuals.
I'll make it an option for casual fights, though it will be the default for online battles since again it could help speed up matches.
 

Kirbeh

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Stuff like reseting positions don't seem something to complain about, if anything I think it can speed fights better since you don't have to wait for mercy invincibility from the safety platforms.

Also how's the write up on Chell's moveset looking?

DEV UPDATE - reworking a few stats and how they work, so I can make the stats and therefore code more clean and more well put together.
I don't think it should be a big deal but people don't like change. For a lot of stubborn players it is a potential deal breaker. I say include it anyway but don't make the default setting. Instead you can make it optional overall but try to make it the standard for competitive play.

As for Chell, not working on it rn. I'm on lunch break at work. Won't be home until around midnight.
 

Glubbfubb

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I don't think it should be a big deal but people don't like change. For a lot of stubborn players it is a potential deal breaker. I say include it anyway but don't make the default setting. Instead you can make it optional overall but try to make it the standard for competitive play.

As for Chell, not working on it rn. I'm on lunch break at work. Won't be home until around midnight.
Yeah good point, I do think not liking change is a flawed way of thinking, even if the game is the same genre as one other game, you shouldn't expect gameplay to be 1 to 1.
 

Kirbeh

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Actually one more thing. How do you think this might affect off stage interactions? If the positions reset during KOs doesn't that greatly lessen the risk of going in deep off stage? If you're in a good position to try for a KO you also don't have to worry about making it back anymore. The player on defense is put at a bigger disadvantage since the one on offense is incentivized to always go for the risky play because the risk is no longer there.
 
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Glubbfubb

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Actually one more thing. How do think this might affect off stage interactions? If the positions reset during KOs doesn't that greatly lessen the risk of going in deep off stage? If you're in a good position to try for a KO you also don't have to worry about making it back anymore. The player on defense is put at a bigger disadvantage since the one on offense is insentivized to always go for the risky play because the risk is no longer there.
Oof didn't think of that actually, maybe it isn't a good idea in the long run. I just had a random thought when sleeping last night and I wanted to pitch it, guess maybe just make it optional.

My default online ruleset is a standard 3 stocks, 7 minutes, on a random stage that can be manipulated by a favored stage option. I think 3 stocks is perfect, not to many so you won't get campy games, and not to little so you won't get overly aggressive games, a perfect balance in my opinion.
 

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Oof didn't think of that actually, maybe it isn't a good idea in the long run. I just had a random thought when sleeping last night and I wanted to pitch it, guess maybe just make it optional.

My default online ruleset is a standard 3 stocks, 7 minutes, on a random stage that can be manipulated by a favored stage option. I think 3 stocks is perfect, not to many so you won't get campy games, and not to little so you won't get overly aggressive games, a perfect balance in my opinion.
I guess you could still use it for stamina mode. May as well double down on the mode that intentionally leans more "traditional fighter."
 

Glubbfubb

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I guess you could still use it for stamina mode. May as well double down on the mode that intentionally leans more "traditional fighter."
Yeah, in online you can have a choice between Ringout Mode and Brawler Mode, which are the standard and closed in fighting modes respectively, with the options for casual battles with Steam friends, ranked battles in different leagues, and tourney battles for each mode.
 

Glubbfubb

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DEV UPDATE - Edited walking and running so that you have more control on how fast you walk based on how far the stick is pushed

Also, I wonder if Aremi's Side Charge attack should be replaced with her creating a fireball from her hands that fizzles out immediately after being used instead of the weird fire-spitting attack. The range would be the same but I feel its more natural for Aremi to produce. In terms of references something like Dan Hibiki's Godoken, (the small green fireball) but actually viable. I am just asking since the Side Charge is the sole attack I feel is outdated in Aremi's kit.
 

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DEV UPDATE - Edited walking and running so that you have more control on how fast you walk based on how far the stick is pushed

Also, I wonder if Aremi's Side Charge attack should be replaced with her creating a fireball from her hands that fizzles out immediately after being used instead of the weird fire-spitting attack. The range would be the same but I feel its more natural for Aremi to produce. In terms of references something like Dan Hibiki's Godoken, (the small green fireball) but actually viable. I am just asking since the Side Charge is the sole attack I feel is outdated in Aremi's kit.
Yeah, I think it's in need of a change too, though rather than a Gadoken I think something closer to Mario F-Smash might fit better. Different animation on Aremi but resulting in a similar short range burst of fire. I'm thinking of looking to SNK for inspiration actually. Iori, Kyo and Rock come to mind so I'll see what I can come up with.
 

Glubbfubb

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Yeah, I think it's in need of a change too, though rather than a Gadoken I think something closer to Mario F-Smash might fit better. Different animation on Aremi but resulting in a similar short range burst of fire. I'm thinking of looking to SNK for inspiration actually. Iori, Kyo and Rock come to mind so I'll see what I can come up with.
There is actually another attack Dan Hibiki can do where he creates a crest of fire, it hits opponents multiple times and can break blocks, so I imagine that it would do the same thing here, being a multi hit that can shatter shields

Also I notice that a few of my moves are inspired by making a bunch of notoriously terrible moves good.
 

Kirbeh

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There is actually another attack Dan Hibiki can do where he creates a crest of fire, it hits opponents multiple times and can break blocks, so I imagine that it would do the same thing here, being a multi hit that can shatter shields

Also I notice that a few of my moves are inspired by making a bunch of notoriously terrible moves good.
I don't know about using Haoh Gadoken as a basis. It's basically a super move (Ultra in SF4 and V-Trigger in 5), so it's properties are a bit too strong for a regular attack.

As for the latter I don't think I ever really caught on, but that's also because up until now you avoided mentioning specific inspirations.
 

Glubbfubb

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I don't know about using Haoh Gadoken as a basis. It's basically a super move (Ultra in SF4 and V-Trigger in 5), so it's properties are a bit too strong for a regular attack.

As for the latter I don't think I ever really caught on, but that's also because up until now you avoided mentioning specific inspirations.
Yeah good point, I do think with the purple fire Aremi's Forward Charge could look visually distinct from Mario's
 

Glubbfubb

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Hmm do you think the systems I have in place, I e the meter system and Back Tilts, feel unique enough to separate from Smash Bros, or is it still a bit too close to Smash Bros? Do you think there is something missing in the combat system?
 
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Kirbeh

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Hmm do you think the systems I have in place, I e the meter system and Back Tilts, feel unique enough to separate from Smash Bros, or is it still a bit too close to Smash Bros? Do you think there is something missing in the combat system?
I think what you have now is plenty. As I've said before, focusing on functionality over perceived "uniqueness" is more important. Experimentation can come after a solid foundation.
 

Kirbeh

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Also, can you give me the heights again?

Tallest are LAMBDA (1), Chell (2), and Kowalski (3) in that order, right?
 
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Glubbfubb

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Also, can you give me the heights again?

Tallest are LAMBDA (1), Chell (2), and Kowalski (3) in that order, right?
Here is an exact ranking from tallest to shortest

LAMBDA
Chell
Ahab
Erycles
Kowalski
EPSILON
Levi
Wynnie
Aremi
Wyrm and Tamm
Weevle
Myten Queen
 

Glubbfubb

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Name - Mobius Ahab
Gender - Male
Species - Areocetatian
Origin -
Mobius Ahab is a scrappy fighter from the Great Tide Nebula. He is the youngest of the Ahab clan, one of the most powerful clans in the Great Tide Nebula. Ahab lived a tough life, his family lives a life of crime, and he often takes the brunt of it, having to scrape by in brutal kickboxing matches in order to pay off the debts brought upon by his parents. Of course these matches are not legally maintained, and death is a common occurrence, but Ahab has no choice. He is under the gun of the Black Spot Crime Syndicate, the most powerful syndicate in the galaxy, so he is under threat from both being brutalized in the ring and being silenced by the syndicate. Still, he has a heart of gold, and when he sees a certain reptilian primate locked up in a cage, something in him spoke to his heart to do the right thing.

Appearance - Mobius takes design inspiration from sperm whales, having a box-shared head, toothy mouth, and gray color palette. Unsurprisingly, Mobius also has a large frame, being the among the biggest of the cast physically, and wears a typical boxing tank top and a pair of cyan boxing gloves. His elbows are encrusted with barnacles to emphasize how rugged he is, and periodically his blowhole spews steam, which becomes more pronounced on higher percent.

Archetype - Bruiser
Gimmick - Lighter than Air, Heavier than Stone
  • Ahab's species is able to absorb air to give their bodies surprising agility, letting him jump up to 3 times in the air.
Intended Strengths -
  • An inversion of the traditional heavyweight in that Ahab has good air-mobility and recovery options.
  • Ahab has quick, powerful aerial options with great air mobility.
  • High weight, the second heaviest in the game, gives him great survivability.
Intended Weaknesses -
  • Ahab has poor ground speed with middling burst movement options.
  • Large frame and high fall speed makes Ahab good combo food.
  • He mainly performs melee attacks, giving him poor range.

Planned Stats: (Give a letter grade from E- to A+)
Walk Speed -
C
Running Speed - B-
Traction - B
Jump Height - B
Air Acceleration - A+
Fall Speed - A
Weight - A

Ground Moves:
Jab - Hammerhead Combo -
A quick right hook, followed by a straight left punch, and ending with a strong headbutt.
Forward Tilt - Fishing Line - A quick left hook, press again to combo into a downward swing to launch foes upwards.
Up Tilt - Updraft - A short truncated uppercut, useful for juggling opponents though range is quite middling.
Down Tilt - Wave Breaker - A leg sweep using Ahab's tail, pushing opponents forward and has a potential to trip if you hit the sweetspot.
Back Tilt - Side Clocker - A sideswipe with Ahab's left fist to clock the opponent, has quite high downwards knockback.
Dash Attack - Sea Leg Sweeper - Ahab comes to a quick stop while plunging low to swing at an opponent's legs, knocking them down.

Charge Attacks:
Side Charge - Hull Smasher -
Ahab steps forward to delivering a strong body blow, spiking in the middle of the attack.
Up Charge - Tornado Uppercut - Charging with wind, Ahab performs with a spiraling uppercut, strong KO tool and juggling tool.
Down Charge - Tough Twister - Bending down, Ahab performs a spinning punch all around his body. While the weakest of the three charge attacks, this attack has heavy armor and hits both sides, a good keep away tool.

Aerials:
Neutral Air - Bluster Spinner -
A spinning attack with Ahab's arms, like a tornado, a good horizontal combo tool.
Forward Air - Big Clocker - A forward punch that deals a nasty spike—a simple attack sure but an effective one.
Up Air - Anchor Arms - Flexing one of his arms upwards and one of his arms downwards, he performs this styling attack with frame 1 invincibility but high end-lag.
Down Air - Quick Bluster - A quick series of diagonally downward strikes, while weak in terms of sheer power, it's very fast speed (Frame 2) lets it be a good combo move into itself.
Back Air - Backdraft - A sideways swing with the fists, creating a crest of wind backwards to add a bit of extra range.

Grabs:
Pummel - Clinch -
A grappling punch, among the fastest pummels in the game.
Forward Throw - Breaching Blow - A swing over the shoulders to crash opponents downwards.
Down Throw - Downer Socket - A crouched down uppercut to launch foes upwards.
Back Throw - Spinning Tosser - Ahab spins around and tosses the foe backwards.
Up Throw - Blue Cyclone - Ahab jumps in the air, then crashes into the floor for a powerful piledrive.

Specials:
Neutral Special - Twister Punch -
Gathering the air around his fists, Ahab charges a powerful forward jab that later makes the air crackle as the vacuum made around his fists pops. This crackle results in a strong sweet spot for the punch.
  • Neutral Hyper - Storming Punch - While the punch itself is weaker than the normal attack, the punch itself creates a windbox to push the opponent off-stage.
Side Special - Cyclone Spinner - A lariat that deals multiple hits of strong damage, it can also be used as a horizontal recovery while in the air, though it sends Ahab into freefall afterwards.
  • Side Hyper - Hurricane Spinner - A quicker cyclone lariat that has better vertical recovery is the button is mashed.
Down Special - Storm Uppercut - A powerful charged uppercut that usually takes a while to charge, but if Ahab gets hit the charge gets ended automatically so Ahab can perform a quicker but weaker punch upwards as a counter.
  • Down Hyper - Upper Drafter - Ahab jumps up in the air to perform a spiraling uppercut similar to a tornado. He can act after the end of this move's animation.
Up Special - Steam Geyser - Propelled by hot steam from his blowhole, Ahab performs a powerful body slam that can be aimed in the air.
  • Up Hyper - Steam Powered Assault - The attack lasts longer and has a powerful sweetspot in the end due to Ahab spinning very powerfully, however unlike the normal special this does send Ahab into freefall after use. Better used as an offensive move than a mobility tool.
Hypermax Attacks -
Level 1 - Cyclone Boost -
Ahab boosts himself in the air as he spawns a lingering tornado, anyone caught in the tornado will also be launched upwards.
Level 2 - Thunderclap - Ahab claps, summoning an explosive cloud that goes upwards, using any attack will cause the cloud to explode into an electrical burst.
Level 3 - Aerodynamics - An install-based Hypermax that surrounds Ahab in wind. While in this state, his jumps, ground speed and air speed are higher.

Hey Kirbeh Kirbeh I gave Ahab a rework, including his backstory to fit better into the cast. Now Ahab is allied with Kowalski as they are both characters under the thumb of crime lords, giving them an odd friendship alongside Wyrm and Tamm. I also reworked his kit, made him less gimmicky since I feel his old kit was too similar to a rivals of aether character. That does mean I did cut the whole tornado gimmick to standardize him a bit. However that let me augment his kit with references to Zangief, Hugo, Little Mac, and Custom Move Donkey Kong AKA Airbender Kong. How do you like it?

Also do you have other ideas for characters aside from Erycles, if he can't work due to overlapping with other characters maybe replace him with another one of your ideas?
 
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Kirbeh

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Name - Mobius Ahab
Gender - Male
Species - Areocetatian
Origin -
Mobius Ahab is a scrappy fighter from the Great Tide Nebula. He is the youngest of the Ahab clan, one of the most powerful clans in the Great Tide Nebula. Ahab lived a tough life, his family lives a life of crime, and he often takes the brunt of it, having to scrape by in brutal kickboxing matches in order to pay off the debts brought upon by his parents. Of course these matches are not legally maintained, and death is a common occurrence, but Ahab has no choice. He is under the gun of the Black Spot Crime Syndicate, the most powerful syndicate in the galaxy, so he is under threat from both being brutalized in the ring and being silenced by the syndicate. Still, he has a heart of gold, and when he sees a certain reptilian primate locked up in a cage, something in him spoke to his heart to do the right thing.

Appearance - Mobius takes design inspiration from sperm whales, having a box-shared head, toothy mouth, and gray color palette. Unsurprisingly, Mobius also has a large frame, being the among the biggest of the cast physically, and wears a typical boxing tank top and a pair of cyan boxing gloves. His elbows are encrusted with barnacles to emphasize how rugged he is, and periodically his blowhole spews steam, which becomes more pronounced on higher percent.

Archetype - Bruiser
Gimmick - Lighter than Air, Heavier than Stone
  • Ahab's species is able to absorb air to give their bodies surprising agility, letting him jump up to 3 times in the air.
Intended Strengths -
  • An inversion of the traditional heavyweight in that Ahab has good air-mobility and recovery options.
  • Ahab has quick, powerful aerial options with great air mobility.
  • High weight, the second heaviest in the game, gives him great survivability.
Intended Weaknesses -
  • Ahab has poor ground speed with middling burst movement options.
  • Large frame and high fall speed makes Ahab good combo food.
  • He mainly performs melee attacks, giving him poor range.

Planned Stats: (Give a letter grade from E- to A+)
Walk Speed -
C
Running Speed - B-
Traction - B
Jump Height - B
Air Acceleration - A+
Fall Speed - A
Weight - A

Ground Moves:
Jab - Hammerhead Combo -
A quick right hook, followed by a straight left punch, and ending with a strong headbutt.
Forward Tilt - Fishing Line - A quick left hook, press again to combo into a downward swing to launch foes upwards.
Up Tilt - Updraft - A short truncated uppercut, useful for juggling opponents though range is quite middling.
Down Tilt - Wave Breaker - A leg sweep using Ahab's tail, pushing opponents forward and has a potential to trip if you hit the sweetspot.
Back Tilt - Side Clocker - A sideswipe with Ahab's left fist to clock the opponent, has quite high downwards knockback.
Dash Attack - Sea Leg Sweeper - Ahab comes to a quick stop while plunging low to swing at an opponent's legs, knocking them down.

Charge Attacks:
Side Charge - Hull Smasher -
Ahab steps forward to delivering a strong body blow, spiking in the middle of the attack.
Up Charge - Tornado Uppercut - Charging with wind, Ahab performs with a spiraling uppercut, strong KO tool and juggling tool.
Down Charge - Tough Twister - Bending down, Ahab performs a spinning punch all around his body. While the weakest of the three charge attacks, this attack has heavy armor and hits both sides, a good keep away tool.

Aerials:
Neutral Air - Bluster Spinner -
A spinning attack with Ahab's arms, like a tornado, a good horizontal combo tool.
Forward Air - Big Clocker - A forward punch that deals a nasty spike—a simple attack sure but an effective one.
Up Air - Anchor Arms - Flexing one of his arms upwards and one of his arms downwards, he performs this styling attack with frame 1 invincibility but high end-lag.
Down Air - Quick Bluster - A quick series of diagonally downward strikes, while weak in terms of sheer power, it's very fast speed (Frame 2) lets it be a good combo move into itself.
Back Air - Backdraft - A sideways swing with the fists, creating a crest of wind backwards to add a bit of extra range.

Grabs:
Pummel - Clinch -
A grappling punch, among the fastest pummels in the game.
Forward Throw - Breaching Blow - A swing over the shoulders to crash opponents downwards.
Down Throw - Downer Socket - A crouched down uppercut to launch foes upwards.
Back Throw - Spinning Tosser - Ahab spins around and tosses the foe backwards.
Up Throw - Blue Cyclone - Ahab jumps in the air, then crashes into the floor for a powerful piledrive.

Specials:
Neutral Special - Twister Punch -
Gathering the air around his fists, Ahab charges a powerful forward jab that later makes the air crackle as the vacuum made around his fists pops. This crackle results in a strong sweet spot for the punch.
  • Neutral Hyper - Storming Punch - While the punch itself is weaker than the normal attack, the punch itself creates a windbox to push the opponent off-stage.
Side Special - Cyclone Spinner - A lariat that deals multiple hits of strong damage, it can also be used as a horizontal recovery while in the air, though it sends Ahab into freefall afterwards.
  • Side Hyper - Hurricane Spinner - A quicker cyclone lariat that has better vertical recovery is the button is mashed.
Down Special - Storm Uppercut - A powerful charged uppercut that usually takes a while to charge, but if Ahab gets hit the charge gets ended automatically so Ahab can perform a quicker but weaker punch upwards as a counter.
  • Down Hyper - Upper Drafter - Ahab jumps up in the air to perform a spiraling uppercut similar to a tornado. He can act after the end of this move's animation.
Up Special - Steam Geyser - Propelled by hot steam from his blowhole, Ahab performs a powerful body slam that can be aimed in the air.
  • Up Hyper - Steam Powered Assault - The attack lasts longer and has a powerful sweetspot in the end due to Ahab spinning very powerfully, however unlike the normal special this does send Ahab into freefall after use. Better used as an offensive move than a mobility tool.
Hypermax Attacks -
Level 1 - Cyclone Boost -
Ahab boosts himself in the air as he spawns a lingering tornado, anyone caught in the tornado will also be launched upwards.
Level 2 - Thunderclap - Ahab claps, summoning an explosive cloud that goes upwards, using any attack will cause the cloud to explode into an electrical burst.
Level 3 - Aerodynamics - An install-based Hypermax that surrounds Ahab in wind. While in this state, his jumps, ground speed and air speed are higher.

Hey Kirbeh Kirbeh I gave Ahab a rework, including his backstory to fit better into the cast. Now Ahab is allied with Kowalski as they are both characters under the thumb of crime lords, giving them an odd friendship alongside Wyrm and Tamm. I also reworked his kit, made him less gimmicky since I feel his old kit was too similar to a rivals of aether character. That does mean I did cut the whole tornado gimmick to standardize him a bit. However that let me augment his kit with references to Zangief, Hugo, Little Mac, and Custom Move Donkey Kong AKA Airbender Kong. How do you like it?

Also do you have other ideas for characters aside from Erycles, if he can't work due to overlapping with other characters maybe replace him with another one of your ideas?
I don't mind ditching the tornado gimmick but overall I don't agree with a lot of the other replacements.

It's quite late for me so I won't be doing a write up at this moment but as a quick example, you already have a lariat move on Epsilon so I don't know if it's necessarily a good idea to give one to Ahab as well.

Some overlap on moves is fine and to be expected in most cases but I think it'd be best to keep it on just one character for the time being. The cast is still small and both characters are vastly different so it's not a case of Mario and Luigi in 64 for example where both understandably have a lot in common.

Not a fan of the new down special either but I'll do a full break down probably on Monday. I won't have time tomorrow night. If I have time to finish the move sketches, it'll be paired with a rework/breakdown of Chell.

As for other characters, I've got plenty of ideas just not many that I think are good fits for Sigma Busters. Most ideas that I have in an unfinished limbo are more geared for my own project.

Regarding Erycles, the only real overlap he has is with the chain special you gave Chell. I'll be addressing that in the write up post. I suppose I'll make it a three-parter and include the full details for him as well.
 

Glubbfubb

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I don't mind ditching the tornado gimmick but overall I don't agree with a lot of the other replacements.

It's quite late for me so I won't be doing a write up at this moment but as a quick example, you already have a lariat move on Epsilon so I don't know if it's necessarily a good idea to give one to Ahab as well.

Some overlap on moves is fine and to be expected in most cases but I think it'd be best to keep it on just one character for the time being. The cast is still small and both characters are vastly different so it's not a case of Mario and Luigi in 64 for example where both understandably have a lot in common.

Not a fan of the new down special either but I'll do a full break down probably on Monday. I won't have time tomorrow night. If I have time to finish the move sketches, it'll be paired with a rework/breakdown of Chell.

As for other characters, I've got plenty of ideas just not many that I think are good fits for Sigma Busters. Most ideas that I have in an unfinished limbo are more geared for my own project.

Regarding Erycles, the only real overlap he has is with the chain special you gave Chell. I'll be addressing that in the write up post. I suppose I'll make it a three-parter and include the full details for him as well.
Yeah I made the mass rework since I felt the old set was a bit gimmicky, but I do feel the new rework does need a bit more work. I should maybe cut down on all the tornado based moves of other characters but sometimes it's hard to think of a good Up Charge attack.
 

Glubbfubb

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Hmm I notice I have some core issues when making movesets, but I can't put my finger on the exact issues, but I do want to fix them somehow.
 

Glubbfubb

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Name - Levi
Gender - Male
Species - Polarus Dracon
Origin -
Draden, a planet locked in eternal stasis with its sun thanks to a prehistoric meteor, created a place of extremes. On the surface of Draden is a endless ocean of frozen glaciers and snow white sand, with the excess heat creating a molten core. These extremes have caused the natives of the planet, the reptilian Dracons, to split into two subspecies to better live in their respective environments. Despite differences in appearances, the Dracons have been living in relative harmony with one another, mainly because they have been distracted by another element of their homeworld, ores. The climate extremes have caused several types of rare metals to develop in the mines, which offer a variety of different functions, so Draden has become a surprisingly popular hub of trade, though trade is usually done for the safety of Dragon's Maw, a mech of trade and business found on their moon Scala. However, that environment also attracts various smugglers, so to counter this, the Dracons have formed their own police organization, the Galactic Commerce Guild, or GCG to counter galactic smuggling. Recently, with the Double Sigma reappearing, there have been concerns that smugglers have taken control of the ship for a heist, so Levi, one of the best officers on the job, decides to investigate with his rookie Wynnie. With his delicate hold of the trigger, or in this case, handle, Levi is a natural on this mission.

Appearance - Modeled after geckos and salamanders, Levi has pale blue skin and deep blue eyes. His teeth are completely serrated, though he does not have as pronounced fangs as Wynnie. His tail has white accents underneath has a shorter length than Wynnie's tail but a wider width. He weas a typical attire one would see on a Fire Emblem esc character, with a gold sword that has snow white trimmings. Levi's headcrest has three pronounced curved spikes.

Archetype - Spacer
Gimmick - Tipper
  • Levi's sword, Frostpunk, has a sharp tip, meaning any attacks directed at the tip deals more damage and knockback.
Intended Strengths -
  • Levi has solid stats all around, including the fastest walking speed in the game, this makes him a very balanced character for beginners to play.
  • All of Levi's moves have a good balance between combo-potential and kill-power.
  • Levi lacks any debilitating weaknesses, making him the most consistent member of the cast.
Intended Weaknesses -
  • While Levi has balanced stats, he doesn't excel at one field in particular aside from walking speed, having middling weight and overall mobility.
  • Levi's tipper mechanic can be prone to wiffing if not mastered, meaning he has troubles killing sometimes.
  • While he does have improved melee-range, he lacks a projectile to use, meaning he struggles against projectile users.

Planned Stats: (Give a letter grade from E- to A+)
Walk Speed -
A
Running Speed - B+
Traction - B+
Jump Height - A
Air Acceleration - B
Fall Speed - B
Weight - B-

Ground Moves:
Jab - Ice Crest -
A single upward thrust with the sword, radiating an icy mist, getting hit by the base of the sword sends the opponent upwards while the tip sends them backwards.
Forward Tilt - Icefall - A downward angled stab from above, with the tip radiating a cyan glow to dictate its power.
Up Tilt - Splinter Shards - A rapid-fire multi-hit move above where Levi stabs upwards, dealing many small hits to juggle opponents.
Down Tilt - Tip Trip -Levi tries to trip the opponent with his sword, the tip has the highest chance to trip the opponent.
Back Tilt - Polar Cutter - A sideways slash from the back that hits both sides, though the hit from the back deals much more damage and knockback than the front.
Dash Attack - Winterblade - While dashing, Levi slashes forward with a horizontal strike, the tip of the attack deals the best KO power.

Charge Attacks:
Side Charge - Ice Breaker -
Levi coats his sword in ice to smash into the opponent, a good attack with splash damage from the ice chunks.
Up Charge - Frozen Spear - Levi skewers upwards with his sword, with artic winds bellowing around him to send his foes upwards.
Down Charge - Avalanche - Levi stabs the ground, causing two spikes of ice to jut from each side, his longest range charge attack, albeit one with only decent power.

Aerials:
Neutral Air - Freeze Cutter -
A quick triple spin in the air, the edges dealing the most damage and knockback.
Forward Air - Hailmaester - A speedy forwards slash, among the quickest moves of its type and has decent combo potential.
Up Air - Waxing Moon - An upwards slash used for juggling opponents, with some icy mist trailing the slash.
Down Air - Waning Moon - A downward slash that creates a potent spike if you hit the tipper of the move.
Back Air - Ice Spear - A thrusting stab back, the tip being a great KO move, a great combo ender.

Grabs:
Pummel - Knee Jab -
Levi attacks the opponent with his knee, among the faster pummels in the game.
Forward Throw - Artic Arch - A simple throw forwards in the arch, the arch isn't that strong but it is good for combos.
Down Throw - Icicle Fall - A downwards toss where the foe gets stunned by artic winds, another good combo throw.
Back Throw - Ice Rocket - A kill throw where Levi tosses the foe back and stabs them with his sword.
Up Throw - Upper Freezer - A kill throw where Levi thrusts his sword upwards to launch opponents upwards.

Specials:
Neutral Special - Blizzardus Blade -
Mist swirls around Levi's sword, which he then charges for a forward thrust. In the later stages of the move's charge the opponent will be sucked inward to better line up the thrust.
  • Neutral Hyper - Sheer Cold Slice - A vertical cut that has Levi's sword billows a crest of icy mist. When hit at just the right spot the crest can freeze opponents solid.
Side Special - Sky Salome - An aimable dash in the air where Levi frantically slashes with all his might, good for both attacking and recovery, though you'll be sent into freefall afterwards.
  • Side Hyper - Skycutter Salome - The attack lasts longer and quicker, though the individual slashes are weaker, with the exception of a powerful final slash.
Down Special - Counter - A standard counter-attack, strike a defensive pose, and when Levi gets attacked, he instead reflects the attack back at increased power. Sends foes in an upward angle.
  • Down Hyper - Frostshine - The counter now has a snowflake-shaped crystal enveloping it, the counter lasts a shorter duration, but the counter now freezes opponents if it connects.
Up Special - Frostpunk - A powerful slash upwards that can be manipulated left or right, a great vertical recovery tool, after usage, Levi enters freefall.
  • Up Hyper - Great Frostpunk - The vertical slash goes higher than usual, and the end of the attack deals a powerful burst of ice to KO opponents.
Hypermax Attacks -
Level 1 - Winterfall -
A plunge downwards that causes Levi's sword to erupt a of row icy geysers to launch opponents upwards.
Level 2 - Cold Touch - A sudden strike with a particularly powerful stab that instantly freezes opponents.
Level 3 - The Icy Leviathan - Transforming into a serpent, Levi breaths a chilling spear of ice that buries foes on the ground and freezes people in the air.

Name - Wynnie
Gender - Female
Species - Magmatic Dracon
Origin -
Wynnie is a new rookie for the GCG, joining only a few months prior to the start of the story. Wynnie is a Magmatic Dracon, the fiery cousins of the Polarus Dracons, who work together to stop intergalactic smugling. This fiery backstory leads to an equally fiery passion for the job. Unfortunately, despite her best efforts, Wynnie is quite notorious for her, well... bombastic tendencies. To temper with her... unique methods the GCG decided to partner her up with the straight-laced Levi to teach her the ropes of the jobs. That went well... for like a few days, as after her recent reassignment, the Double Sigma reappeared. Being the only two on patrol, Wynnie and Levi were tasked with investigating the ship for fears of a smuggling ring hijacking the ship, putting them in conflict with LAMBDA, her army, and each other's sanity.

Appearance - Wynnie is modeled after more desert dwelling reptiles and she has a red color scheme with orange accents on her tail. Unlike Levi her tail is longer in length but thinner in width. She has very pronounced canines and small brown scaly barbs on her shoulders as well as a pair of two large head horns resembling those of a ram. The axe she wields is bronze in color with red accents.

Archetype - Spacer/Bruiser
Gimmick - Gripper
  • Wynnie's axe, the Volcanox, has a very powerful head that deals great knockback and damage, though the rest of the axe is quite weak.
Intended Strengths -
  • Wynnie has the highest raw damage in the game, with several moves that can kill in earlier percents.
  • Wynnie's low traction allows her to perform excellent wavedashes due to the sheer length they travel.
  • Wynnie's high weight combined with a small frame makes her surprising hard to KO.
Intended Weaknesses -
  • Wynnie lacks true combos, since her attacks often deal too much knockback to form one.
  • Having the lowest traction in the game means Wynnie has the least precise movement of the cast.
  • Wynnie is the oddest character to control due to her funky movement stats and strange properties of her moves.

Planned Stats: (Give a letter grade from E- to A+)
Walk Speed -
C
Running Speed - B+
Traction - E-
Jump Height - B
Air Acceleration - C
Fall Speed - B
Weight - A-

Ground Moves:
Jab - Flamehilt -
A downwards slash from Wynnie's axe, the force of which sends opponents back a good distance.
Forward Tilt - Charcoal Chop - A sideways chopping attack with some force, like a lumberjack chops a tree, the middle of the attack deals the most damage.
Up Tilt - Eruption - A slow powerful slash that leaves burns the ground with magmatic energy, a powerful spiking option a terrifying read.
Down Tilt - Trip Tip - Wynnie tries to trip the opponent with her axe, the base has the highest chance to trip the opponent.
Back Tilt - Sun Cutter - A diagonal slash from the back that hits the ground, also a good spiking option that is safer but harder to aim.
Dash Attack - Burner Blade - A spinning saw attack that has Wynnie spinning frantically, quite laggy in the end as Wynnie gets a bit dizzy afterwards, but very powerful.

Charge Attacks:
Side Charge - Flare Cutter -
Wynnie charges her arms to perform a reckless twin spin attack, the spinning motion moves her a bit forward.
Up Charge - Heavy Nova - Wynnie swings her axe above her head, it has some weight to it, but it also has some high start-up as Wynnie struggles to lift her axe into an arch, turns out having a giant battle axe doesn't make you all that agile.
Down Charge - Fissure - Wynnie's powerful axe slash sends a shockwave made of fire forward. This attack is unique as the damage is quite weak, however when fully charged it is garanteed to trip the opponent.

Aerials:
Neutral Air - Red Crest -
A slow double spin in the air, the center of the attack dealing more damage and knockback.
Forward Air - Ash Blazer - Wynnie's quickest aerial, where Wynnie quickly slashes forward, making it good to set up into small combos.
Up Air - Solar Eclipse - An upwards bash used for juggling opponents, with some fiery energy trailing the attack.
Down Air - Lunar Eclipse - Winding up for a powerful slam with her axe, Wynnie crashes forward with a deadly attack that can spike.
Back Air - Crimson MotionA strong reckless kick from behind, which causes Wynnie to jut her axe forwards for a weaker hit in front.

Grabs:
Pummel - Knee Jab -
Wynnie attacks the opponent with her knee, among the faster pummels in the game.
Forward Throw - Corona Crosser - A strong throw that has the foe get bashed into the ground with Wynnie's axe, burying them.
Down Throw - Stomping Grounds - Performing a series of fast stomps onto the opponent, Wynnie then kicks them backwards.
Back Throw - Scalding Suplex - Wynnie tosses the foe over her shoulders to perform a potent kill throw.
Up Throw - Upper Burner - A kill throw where Levi thrusts her axe upwards to launch opponents upwards.

Specials:
Neutral Special - Scalding Spinner -
Wynnie spins herself into a tornado, quickly dashing across the ground. She is invincible during this attack, but the end-lag makes it not an attack to spam.
  • Neutral Hyper - Burning Trail - The attack is stronger, and it also leaves behind a fire trail that acts as a lingering hazard for foes to avoid.
Side Special - Corona Cutter - Wynnie jumps over projectiles as she leaps forward for a powerful slashing attack before crashing down onto the ground.
  • Side Hyper - Volcano Cutter - The cut this attack performs is much more pronounced, and Wynnie leaps in a larger arch forward.
Down Special - Counter - A standard counter-attack, strike a defensive pose, and when Wynnie gets attacked, she instead reflects the attack back at increased power. Sends foes in an backwards angle.
  • Down Hyper - Burnshine - The counter now has a flaming shaped crystal enveloping it, the counter lasts a shorter duration, but the counter now burns opponents if it connects, disabling their meter.
Up Special - Volcanox - A truncated slash upwards that is followed by a fast dropkick either forwards or diagonally downwards. This sends Wynnie into freefall after use.
  • Up Hyper - Great Volcanox - The height this attack performs is more pronounced, and then Wynnie crashes into the ground with a fiery explosion.
Hypermax Attacks -
Level 1 - Burning Winds -
A plunge downwards that causes Wynnie's axe to erupt a of row fiery explosions to launch opponents backwards.
Level 2 - Burning Rapture - A sudden strike with a particularly powerful slice that burns foes alive.
Level 3 - The Burning Wyvern - Transforming into a dragon, Wynnie conjures a great pillar of fire to carry foes upwards towards their doom, any survivors of the attack gets burned.

Hey Kirbeh Kirbeh I decided to finally update Levi and Wynnie's movesets to better fit the new format, how do they look?
 

Glubbfubb

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Today I am back at the old grind of developing my game, I think I ironed out the ground movements like walking and running, next ill wok on the air movement functions, before getting the issues with the attacks ironed out.
 

Glubbfubb

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Kirbeh Kirbeh Great new, my brother is up to spriting to fighters, and he is happy to start with Aremi, he just needs a dynamic pose to reference, something like a colored character portrait, do you think you can do one for Aremi, this is very important and if this goes through this game will go to great lengths baby.

Also if my brother will be the main sprites, would you be interested in doing character portraits and stage art instead, since you did help me I want you to have some input, or do you not care?
 

Kirbeh

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Kirbeh Kirbeh Great new, my brother is up to spriting to fighters, and he is happy to start with Aremi, he just needs a dynamic pose to reference, something like a colored character portrait, do you think you can do one for Aremi, this is very important and if this goes through this game will go to great lengths baby.

Also if my brother will be the main sprites, would you be interested in doing character portraits and stage art instead, since you did help me I want you to have some input, or do you not care?
I can make some reference sheets, portraits and key art for Aremi, but you'll have to wait a few days. First, so I can make time to work on them and then the actual working on them part.

I did want to address a few of your last reworks and more general posts, but the write up for that is also still in progress. I plan on dropping it all together in one long post once it's done.

As for actual spriting, I'm still on board to help with that too, just again, I might be a bit slower due to work and other irl priorities.
 

Glubbfubb

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I can make some reference sheets, portraits and key art for Aremi, but you'll have to wait a few days. First, so I can make time to work on them and then the actual working on them part.

I did want to address a few of your last reworks and more general posts, but the write up for that is also still in progress. I plan on dropping it all together in one long post once it's done.

As for actual spriting, I'm still on board to help with that too, just again, I might be a bit slower due to work and other irl priorities.
Okay cool, until then I'll give my brother the concept sketches we do have so far and just introduce him to the character as a whole. Can you give all the concept art you have made for Aremi so far so I can send that to him.

Yeah progress is going excellent now, I just need to fine tune just one big glitch left then developing movesets will officially start.
 
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Glubbfubb

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My brother is already working on some sprites for Aremi, it's mostly close to the orignal design, though the proportions have been edited to better fit a platform fighter (such as a shorter body and slightly bigger head) there is also a chance that she would mainly wear her hood up rather than down, as that feels more natural in a game like this.
 
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Kirbeh

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My brother is already working on some sprites for Aremi, it's mostly close to the orignal design, though the proportions have been edited to better fit a platform fighter (such as a shorter body and slightly bigger head) there is also a chance that she would mainly wear her hood up rather than down, as that feels more natural in a game like this.
Cool, looking forward to seeing the style you wound up going for.

Still working on the write up, but like I said, slow progress rn due to irl stuff.
 
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