Social Shulk Social : Starting to feel it!

[Nammy12]

Sheik+GW was ridiculous.

Using a super safe move to charge a 1hko move that comes out on frame 1 (2?), breaks shields, has insane priority/range, and true combos from 0% with dthrow.

 

[kenniky]

Back Slash is BS

 

[AlvisCPU]

EDIT: I'm gonna edit this in here because them's the rules. And I've seen a few posts like this.
It's not that I lack motivation to playing as Shulk... I think it's that I want to be better but lack motivation to actually sit down and learn things, improve.

(Not to sound like I'm bragging, but...) I'm one of the better players in my area. I've lived and breathed Smash since I was about 10 but only got into the competitive scene since Smash4 came out. I know my way around the game. I enjoy competitive play. I would like to be better. In my local scene I hear a lot of "Damn, I had to go up against [player] in Round 1" and "So I'm up against [player] next? Well, I had a good run." - I'd like to be one of those players that people hate to face

But the problem is, I only ever tend to play Smash during tourneys. When I have free time, I never have the drive to work on Smash things. I'll derp around on Smashboards, but, like... I still haven't learned to MALLC or perfect pivot - heck, I still don't know what IASA or tomahawking or half the Smash jargon is. I'd probably be more willing to learn if I could actually practise against people. Thing is, I can't play against good players online because my internet speed makes every other player whine, and my brother (whilst a great player) gets this horribly defeatist attitude and stops trying after I win 2-3 matches.

Point is, I know there's all these things that can improve my game, but I haven't had the desire to try learning techniques in Training, and I can't be bothered trying to organise matches with people IRL to actually practise. I think the two things that have brought me to this realisation is that (1) now that I'm working full-time (and even working during my free time), I don't have a lot of time between now and an upcoming major in my area. I had all these grand plans to learn things and I've learned nothing, so I need to optimise my free time. The other point is (2) I'm losing to players I know I should be able to beat. I've been told by a few people that I'm better than my tournament placings would suggest. After an event on Friday, I realised that I'm really sick and tired of Ness' who just PK Fire and back-throw to victory, and Marios and especially Sheiks who will just combo me into oblivion. I'm starting to lose to some really stupid stuff, and whilst I'm usually super-patient, it's getting to me. Maybe I'm just tired.

On a lesser point... one of the top guys in my area has started to pick up Shulk. As the sole Shulk player at events, I refuse to be out-Shulked

So if anyone has any advice... I will appreciate it

I haven't been back in here in a damn long time.

How have we got by without you liking nearly every post? These have been dark times indeed.

I keep wondering how many times backslash has actually been used in singles. In doubles I find is more easy but its still a pain to land not to mention you get punished for it if you miss.

I use it a bit. I think someone else had a similar example, but if I'm in a horrible situation, above someone, no second jump, I'll use it. Usually the player will respond in a certain way. I'll wait until I just fall into range, then Back Slash. The small hop that delays your landing often tricks the opponent into trying to punish and missing. Then, although you Back Slash them from the front most of the time, you can hit them and have enough time to retreat. A bit risky but I find it usually pays off. So yeah, I use it, but nearly always as a surprise attack. I do sometimes get some excellent Back Slashes off on retreating opponents.

Imagine if Back Slash could ledge grab. Would so so safe to return to the stage from up high.

 

[ExcaliburGuy]

Thing is, I can't play against good players online because my internet speed makes every other player whine, and my brother (whilst a great player) gets this horribly defeatist attitude and stops trying after I win 2-3 matches.

Bruh, I'll play with you sometime. I play Mario, Roy, and Marth in addition to Shulk.

 

[Linkmario00]

I was thinking. ..why do people consider Shulk mid tier or lower while he clearly has the MU to be higher? Not that I want nerf or something similar lol, but think one moment. The common life of a midtier is to do pretty well against most of the cast but to suck against top tier. Shulk isn't the case I think. Rosa MU is even, Luigi we have the advantage, Pikachu is even or slightly in his favor (even Esam thinks it's a -1 for Shulk at max), I think we won the Falcon MU and for the rest it's even except for like 4 characters (Sheik, ZSS, Sonic and Fox). Not saying these are the MU ratio of a top tier, but at least of an high tier. Well, maybe be considered mid-low is good. We could receive some buffs lol. Shulk with a good framedata would be easily top 10 or more.

 

[kenniky]

I was thinking. ..why do people consider Shulk mid tier or lower while he clearly has the MU to be higher? Not that I want nerf or something similar lol, but think one moment. The common life of a midtier is to do pretty well against most of the cast but to suck against top tier. Shulk isn't the case I think. Rosa MU is even, Luigi we have the advantage, Pikachu is even or slightly in his favor (even Esam thinks it's a -1 for Shulk at max), I think we won the Falcon MU and for the rest it's even except for like 4 characters (Sheik, ZSS, Sonic and Fox). Not saying these are the MU ratio of a top tier, but at least of an high tier. Well, maybe be considered mid-low is good. We could receive some buffs lol. Shulk with a good framedata would be easily top 10 or more.

Shulk with even Ike's frame data would be broken.

 

[WindHero]

I was thinking. ..why do people consider Shulk mid tier or lower while he clearly has the MU to be higher? Not that I want nerf or something similar lol, but think one moment. The common life of a midtier is to do pretty well against most of the cast but to suck against top tier. Shulk isn't the case I think. Rosa MU is even, Luigi we have the advantage, Pikachu is even or slightly in his favor (even Esam thinks it's a -1 for Shulk at max), I think we won the Falcon MU and for the rest it's even except for like 4 characters (Sheik, ZSS, Sonic and Fox). Not saying these are the MU ratio of a top tier, but at least of an high tier. Well, maybe be considered mid-low is good. We could receive some buffs lol. Shulk with a good framedata would be easily top 10 or more.

As it stands, Shulk is considered mid-tier mostly because he has such a steep learning curve to master him. And since tier lists are made much more often by peasants non-Shulk players who probably felt "OMG, THIS IS TOO MUCH," he doesn't get full credit. That said, there are tier lists made based on tournament results. And on that note, the number of dedicated Shulk mains is fairly small amount, and hence not well-represented at tourneys... Still, mostly-even MUs against most of the cast isn't direct justification for high-tier classification. Looking at a top-tier, say, Sheik, most of the MUs are in Sheik's favor. Top-tier means something more like having an advantage over most of the cast.

I myself hadn't repped Shulk in my first tournament, I only played him in friendlies afterward. I didn't feel confident that I could manage him well enough in tournament play... And now I KNOW I wouldn't have. In three weeks, this forum has really made me see a lot of my mistakes and failures. And I still haven't fixed most of them.

 

[Linkmario00]

Shulk with even Ike's frame would be broken.

Just having autocancelling Fair and Bair would be immensely good like Wat. A move like Bair that comes out at frame 7 and autocancels would be one of the best moves in the game.

As it stands, Shulk is considered mid-tier mostly because he has such a steep learning curve to master him. And since tier lists are made much more often by peasants non-Shulk players who probably felt "OMG, THIS IS TOO MUCH," he doesn't get full credit. That said, there are tier lists made based on tournament results. And on that note, the number of dedicated Shulk mains is fairly small amount, and hence not well-represented at tourneys... Still, mostly-even MUs against most of the cast isn't direct justification for high-tier classification. Looking at a top-tier, say, Sheik, most of the MUs are in Sheik's favor. Top-tier means something more like having an advantage over most of the cast.

I myself hadn't repped Shulk in my first tournament, I only played him in friendlies afterward. I didn't feel confident that I could manage him well enough in tournament play... And now I KNOW I wouldn't have. In three weeks, this forum has really made me see a lot of my mistakes and failures. And I still haven't fixed most of them.

I've never said Shulk was top tier. But mid tiers are characters like Link or bowser or DK (without customs) who lose terribly against Sheik, Rosa,Luigi etc. Shulk has way better MU against most of them so he should be considered at least at the level of Falcon[/quote]

 

[Pikalink]

Tbh I wouldn't want Shulk to be buffed too much. More of a personal opinion but I like being that one person who mains a somewhat un noticed character. It has a ring to it.
Without the MA gimmick Shulk would probably be in a lower tier. Especially with his iffy frame data. Lets remember now the tier gap in SM4SH isn't as big as Melee and especially Brawl. I'd say a tiny buff could help us out in higher-up match ups. But I'd still want him to be balanced out.
But onto the question I think its simple. People tend to focus on higher tier characters. They have higher tournament potential. People can tend to easily over look things. With a bit of digging one can find lots of potential in Shulk. With MALLC a new variety of things can come out of him. But due to his learning curve and MALLC many people tend to brush him off when they could be working on a character higher in the list.
My theory is the problem of learning curves make people assume "oh he's a hard character to use so that means only good players can use him making any less players with him unusable." With lesser people using him he doesn't stick out a whole bunch compaired to all the people who main Rosa or Diddy. Remember random smashers on youtube have to place all the 50+ characters in their lists. So watching videos and researching all of them takes time. There are clearly videos of Shulk mains going up against higher characters. But to watch all those videos for so many characters becomes tiresome. Look at Shulk being around the end of the roster. If they were doing this in order of the characters or their tier placement they probably did about 20+ characters and are tired. So they do less digging at Shulk because he's just another character to research to them. To us we see videos or play with him constantly compaired to them.
Its more easy to look at the negatives of of something. So while they watch various videos the look at him and go "oh they have to rely on a gimmick with a slow character." Remember not all Shulk videos are victorious. Thus people place him not looking at the benefits assuming things about him. While Shulk mains in the comments explain why he should be higher its too late. Lots of people have already seen the video and assume the person knows their stuff. So they go assuming "Yeah I see why. He has slow frame data and is hard to use only being at this place on the list because of his gimmick." Opinions spread online so people brush him off with their only known knowledge.
This is only my theory as to why Shulk is placed as he is. Most people who never played Xenoblade and only take smash casually see Shulk as that "I'm really feeling it!" guy. Which doesn't help his case of assuming as some people can't even take him seriously. Assuming is how I see why people place him where he is in their lists. Don't take it personal. These lists are not official and makes it all the more satisfaction when a Shulk player scores high in a tournament.
Sorry for writing a wall.

 

[kenniky]

High learning curve definitely does not mean bad. Look at characters such as Melee Ice Climbers, ranked about 14/26 for the first four years and is now 8th; Melee Jigglypuff, ranked about 10-11/26 for 7 years and is now 5th; Brawl Olimar, ranked 18/37 in September 2008, half a year after Brawl's release and about where we are now for Sm4sh, and is now 3rd; Brawl Ice Climbers, ranked about 13/37 until 2010 and is now 2nd. They all have pretty high learning curves and ended up near the top of the metagame. Wouldn't be surprised to see that with Shulk.

 

[Berserker.]

Oh boy. Tier lists

Well, think about it this way

If we ignore the effort and learning curve, Shulk would be high tier buuuut the ease of usability IS a component when it comes to deciding the position of a character in a tier list. As it stands, Shulk is the hardest to use and master and his match-ups (in theory) don't seem something akin to a mid-tier's match-ups. He still struggles against Sheik, Fox, and Sonic (one being a sure solid disadvantage). 3 top tiers. Boom. Not viable. We need to figure out those match-ups but anyway... so basically, he's mid-tier because he's hard to use and hard to master. That's pretty much it

Then again, good thing here is that if this goes on, he'll get buffed, but Shulk does have a lot of potential

Tier lists are kinda pointless with all the patches going on though

 

[WindHero]

I agree about the pointlessness of tier lies lists, I learned my lesson on those fairly recently. That said, someone in the Pokemon VGC community would ardently disagree (and in the case of their game, be correct... >.<)...

I can say, however, that Shulk's unique traits make him a desirable character for me to play. I haven't played Xenoblade Chronicles, but I probably will buy it as soon as I get a good excuse to upgrade to a >new< 3DS. Why do I main him then? 'Cause I see potential. I've always been one of those types who's too stubborn and proud to use the "best," be it a "goodstuffs" team in Pokemon or Sheik in Sm4sh. I go for the characters who are unproven, overlooked, or otherwise abandoned. Or Shulk, who defies classification. I hate seeing games centralize on a tiny group of widely recognized and successful strategies/characters. So use Shulk, make him good. Create a VGC Doubles team with Therian Tornadus and Swift Swim Armaldo. Just prepare to be losing for a long time before hopefully meeting success.

It just takes persistence and good judgment.

 

[Monado Master]

I agree about the pointlessness of tier lies lists, I learned my lesson on those fairly recently. That said, someone in the Pokemon VGC community would ardently disagree (and in the case of their game, be correct... >.<)...

I can say, however, that Shulk's unique traits make him a desirable character for me to play. I haven't played Xenoblade Chronicles, but I probably will buy it as soon as I get a good excuse to upgrade to a >new< 3DS. Why do I main him then? 'Cause I see potential. I've always been one of those types who's too stubborn and proud to use the "best," be it a "goodstuffs" team in Pokemon or Sheik in Sm4sh. I go for the characters who are unproven, overlooked, or otherwise abandoned. Or Shulk, who defies classification. I hate seeing games centralize on a tiny group of widely recognized and successful strategies/characters. So use Shulk, make him good. Create a VGC Doubles team with Therian Tornadus and Swift Swim Armaldo. Just prepare to be losing for a long time before hopefully meeting success.

It just takes persistence and good judgment.

Yea tier lists are bull a nlot of the time because they look at stereotypes like little Mac side b off the edge, or Shulk side b off the edge. I did the maining Shulk before ZeRo got to him and made him a high tier character along with like 25 other people and I did pretty good with him too. Not as good as I am now, but I won most fg matches with Shulk.

Also uh I'm not sure how many of you guys play pokemon ORAS but I'm currently doing a dexnav shiny chain and I'm on a chain of like 330 or something like that, and I have like a quarter of a max repel left. I need some help if there's anything else I can do to help this chance of this shiny showing up.

Update: repel died.

 

[Berserker.]

Tier lists do and will always matter. It's just that with patches and all these updates, there really isn't any point of making a tier list if the metagame keeps changing again and again

 

[Linkmario00]

Without the MA gimmick Shulk would be in a lower tier.

Without MA Shulk would be for sure low tier if not worse. They're that good. Shulk without MA has like...very good range. Stop. Terrible framedata, not that good mobility, gimpable recovery, etc.
However I'm confident about the future of Shulk. It will take a lot of time to figure him out perfectly, and even more time to find someone that can play him perfectly, but he will be tournament viable for that time. It doesn't matter that he has some bad MUs. Ness has bad MU against Sheik, Rosa and Villager (I think ). Does this make him mid tier? Not that I'm comparing Shulk to Ness, but everyone has unfavourable MU (except for Sheik lol). Also I'm not talking about tier list. I'm talking about the general opinion about the character. It's probably for his learning curve, yeah.

P.S. I visited the Pikachu board yesterday. For some people he needs a buff in killing power and in kill setups because "his only kill setup is Uthrow to Thunder or edgeguarding". Yeah, say that to characters like Link that have to pray for a random smash to hit for killing.

 

[Monado Master]

Tier lists do and will always matter. It's just that with patches and all these updates, there really isn't any point of making a tier list if the metagame keeps changing again and again

Wasn't there a great smash player who said tier lists do not matter its how you play that character that matters.
And besides tier lists are opinions. And everyone knows that there's no opinions on the internet.

 

[Berserker.]

Wasn't there a great smash player who said tier lists do not matter its how you play that character that matters.
And besides tier lists are opinions. And everyone knows that there's no opinions on the internet.

Nope. Never heard of it

Also, tiers matter if you're playing to win. Don't listen to anyone who says otherwise

 

[Monado Master]

Nope. Never heard of it

Also, tiers matter if you're playing to win. Don't listen to anyone who says otherwise

OK so because of opinionated tier lists that means a low tier character like dk cannot beat a high tier character like Diddy in a for glory match? Because I've beaten Diddy (before the nerf hammer got him in 1.0.6) I played dk as a joke on fg and fought and destoryed diddy. And yes this Diddy played like all the others at the time.

I really just do not see the point of tiers when in the end they always change.

 

[Berserker.]

For Glory is not a good determinant for match-ups at all especially if you don't know who you're fighting or if the skill gap between you and your opponent is considerably big (good luck determining that)

Tiers always change, that's true but they still matter in a sense that they tell you which characters are doing well and are generally the dominating force in the roster. Also, I don't know the MU between DK and Diddy but it's safe to assume that Diddy bodies DK but that doesn't mean the MU is impossible. It's just difficult for the DK main

I'll repeat myself, if you're playing to win, then tiers matter. Pick the top tiers. Harsh but it's the reality if you're competitive. No point of handicapping yourself by picking a character that isn't top 10 or top 7

 

[AlvisCPU]

Tournament time. Finally broke my curse of placing 13th every single time. (7th.)

Spoiler

R1: Bye'd. I was seeded fairly high since a portion of the top players weren't here.

R2: vs.
I need more matchup practise against ZSS. I've beaten this guy before and knew I could do it. He just caught me with a lot of things. Sent straight to Losers Bracket. Apparently the guy had had a lot of Shulk matchup practise two days prior... oh well, it happens.

R3: vs.
Knocked down into losers to face a good friend of mine. Sucks that we were gonna knock each other out, but... yeah. Sonic is tough. Tried to keep him on his toes by mixing up my getups off his dthrows (after rolling away and getting caught by his up-smash twice, I learned pretty quick.) Not sure if it can be teched. I think in terms of recovery against Sonic, I think it's it's a good idea to use Jump and move well over him. His spring gimps are so pathetic-looking but effective. Speed kept up with him, got some good % with Buster. I forgot it at the time, but jab can interrupt his spin dashes. Watch out for his bair.

R4: vs.
OH BOY, I love these matchups I'm getting! Where the Fox at?! All I need is a Fox, and then I can call Bingo on Shulk's terrible matchups! ...
I was out for revenge too - this was one of the guys that gave me hell earlier in the week when Mr. Sonic Player and I went up against double-Sheik in a BO1 tourney we totally could've won. Managed to space him out fairly well but also eat every needle. Up-air is scary. I learned that if you're getting comboed, just let it happen - DON'T use your second jump. I had some surprisingly ballsy moments where I was being comboed off-stage and successfully challenged the KO Bouncing Fish with fair. Won the match and reclaimed my lost honour

R5: vs.
I've battled this guy before - had some excellent, close matches with him. He's been seeded pretty much equal to me, so I knew this'd be tough - he beat me last time we met in a tourney. I've learned to start with Shield against Mario, because you can drop out of his dthrow-utilt. Smash has a similar effect, though obviously art choice should be situational. By the time your Art wears off, I find I'm usually out of the easy combo range. Space him really well - be wary of fireballs. Don't jump over and into his uSmash like I do (I learned to Vision it). Don't underestimate his gimp game because even FLUDD can push a slightly over-shot Air Slash away from the edge. He won the first match but I came back to take it. Buster is love, Buster is life.

R6: vs. ,
A friend of the previous guy, I expected an easier battle than the last.
His Rosalina wasn't too bad. Not fought many, knew to avoid the uair/tilt. Each grab, I threw him immediately because of Luma. Desperately chasing his up-Bs for a Back Slash. Won fairly comfortably... then he changed to Ness and I played like an absolute idiot. Jumped into PK Flash to try and counter and got myself killed. Had this weird moment where he hit me off-stage with a PK Fire, but the damn fire followed me down! Then when I Air Slashed he hit me with another and I couldn't DI out without getting myself killed. I practically went 0-100%, then his bthrow sealed the deal. In the next match, I played equally bad. On my last stock he opened with two PK Thunder self-hits, and I got hit by both. I was in Smash art too, I nearly died and started the stock on 50%. Brought the Speed and Buster, DI'd up out of his dthrow. In the end I was in Shield at ~130% and him on ~90%, just one back-throw is all it'd take. I got some insanely close forward counter on his PK Thunder self-hit and finished it... way too close, I need to know how to deal with Ness because he was throwing out some really punishable stuff.

R7: vs.
One of the top players in my area, ranked higher than myself. (Yeah, I know, right? Ganondorf in the Top 10!)
Kept distance after each Speed combo because he'd respond with a Smash attack. Got some good (risky) Buster work in too. Dude, what's with Dorf's up-Smash endlag? I swear there's none, because he went immediately into ftilt and sent me down into the depths. Won the first match, he opened the second match with a Ganoncide. Which was suddenly scary since we were both on one stock - no room for mistakes since Ganondorf hits like a truck. I managed to keep him at bay with my range and agility, and ended with a Vision.

R8: vs.
This guy was 2nd seed today. Okay, wtf. I got absolutely trounced. Like, Lv. 20s taking on Territorial Rotbart levels of destruction. I think in two matches combined I didn't get more than 150% total on him. What's this SHFFfair crap? I shield, he grabs immediately. I go to hit or retreat and he outspeeds me and hits first. First stock I think I only got one hit in before being KOd. WHAT HAPPENED?! I WAS DOING SO WELL! And I can go toe-to-toe with the guy seeded above him! He played so aggressively that I didn't have any room to breathe - even with Speed. Buster didn't close the gap at all. Sheik's combos feel disgusting

I managed to get some MALLC's going - I've not properly tried to learn. Only ever got it by running off the Battlefield/Dreamland platforms and fair into their shield, but I could often jab after the hit because they'd drop the shield and I'd either beat their response or "go intangible" through it. It makes Shulk seem a lot quicker. I've actually witnessed the value in this now, I need to get this down. Good for catching people off, too.

I'm not sure if this has been touched in the Matchup thread, but does anyone have advice on how to fight Ness and Sheik? I have an atrocious time against them especially.

 

[Monado Master]

For Glory is not a good determinant for match-ups at all especially if you don't know who you're fighting or if the skill gap between you and your opponent is considerably big (good luck determining that)

Tiers always change, that's true but they still matter in a sense that they tell you which characters are doing well and are generally the dominating force in the roster. Also, I don't know the MU between DK and Diddy but it's safe to assume that Diddy bodies DK but that doesn't mean the MU is impossible. It's just difficult for the DK main

I'll repeat myself, if you're playing to win, then tiers matter. Pick the top tiers. Harsh but it's the reality if you're competitive. No point of handicapping yourself by picking a character that isn't top 10 or top 7

Well if I can enter a smash4 tournament with my boy Shulk (low b tier) and win the whole tournament when half of the people there are all of these top tier characters like sheik (s tier) Sonic, and pikachu (a tier) who are all top tier characters. That just even furthers my point that if you know what your doing, tier lists do not matter.

Edit: and yea fg isn't a good way to show your moves probably, but still, with the people that wake up and salute the tier list ( which are OTHER peoples opinions BTW) like its all powerful and will kill us all if we don't listen to it just seems stupid. I mean the last match in this tournament I was in. My opponent brought a tier list he printed out and before every fight he did, he looked at the tier list and played according, like on tier list like s and a tier he really tried. B tier he kinda tryed. Anything below he didn't really care. Before we fought he looked for Shulk on the tier list, saw he was b tier, laughed in my face, and said "give up the money now, Monado boy. Do you really think you can beat me and my sheik!?" I said yep. We started fighting, I got a 0 to death kill on him and I said Shulk! Smash! Pow! He flipped out saying I cheated and in this tournament if you said someone's cheating or you pause the matchmatch, you instantly lose. So if that doesn't even further prove then bull that tier lists are then I don't know what will.

 

[MeatOfJustice]

Tournament time. Finally broke my curse of placing 13th every single time. (7th.)

Spoiler

R1: Bye'd. I was seeded fairly high since a good portion of the top players weren't here.

R2: vs.
I need more matchup practise against ZSS. I've beaten this guy before and knew I could do it. He just caught me with a lot of things. Sent straight to Losers Bracket. Apparently the guy had had a lot of Shulk matchup practise two days prior... oh well, it happens.

R3: vs.
Knocked down into losers to face a good friend of mine. Sucks that we were gonna knock each other out, but... yeah. Sonic is tough. Tried to keep him on his toes by mixing up my getups off his dthrows (after rolling away and getting caught by his up-smash twice, I learned pretty quick.) Not sure if it can be teched. I think in terms of recovery against Sonic, I think it's it's a good idea to use Jump and move well over him. His spring gimps and so pathetic-looking but very effective. Speed kept up with him, got some good % with Buster. I forgot it at the time, but jab can interrupt his spin dashes. Watch out for his bair.

R4: vs.
OH BOY, I love these matchups I'm getting! Where the Fox at?! All I need is a Fox, and then I can call Bingo on Shulk's terrible matchups! ...
I was out for revenge too - this was one of the guys that gave me hell earlier in the week when Mr. Sonic Player and I went up against double-Sheik in a BO1 tourney we totally could've won. Managed to space him out fairly well but also eat every needle. Up-air is scary. I learned that if you're getting comboed, just let it happen - DON'T use your second jump. I had some surprisingly ballsy moments where I was being comboed off-stage and successfully challenged the KO Bouncing Fish with fair. Won the match and reclaimed my lost honour

R5: vs.
I've battled this guy before - had some excellent, close matches with him. He's been seeded pretty much equal to me, so I knew this'd be tough - he beat me last time we met in a tourney. I've learned to start with Shield against Mario, because you can drop out of his dthrow-utilt. Smash has a similar effect, though obviously art choice should be situational. By the time your Art wears off, I find I'm usually out of the easy combo range. Space him really well - be wary of fireballs. Don't jump over and into his uSmash like I do (I learned to Vision it). Don't underestimate his gimp game because even FLUDD can push a slightly over-shot Air Slash away from the edge. He won the first match but I came back to take it. Buster is love, Buster is life.

R6: vs. ,
A friend of the previous guy, I expected an easier battle than the last.
His Rosalina wasn't too bad. Not fought many, knew to avoid the uair/tilt. Each grab, I threw him immediately because of Luma. Desperately chasing his up-Bs for a Back Slash. Won fairly comfortably... then he changed to Ness and I played like an absolute idiot. Jumped into PK Flash to try and counter and got myself killed. Had this weird moment where he hit me off-stage with a PK Fire, but the damn fire followed me down! Then when I Air Slashed he hit me with another and I couldn't DI out without getting myself killed. I practically went 0-100%, then his bthrow sealed the deal. In the next match, I played equally bad. On my last stock he opened with two PK Thunder self-hits, and I got hit by both. I was in Smash art too, I nearly died and started the stock on 50%. Brought the Speed and Buster, DI'd up out of his dthrow. In the end I was in Shield at ~130% and him on ~90%, just one back-throw is all it'd take. I got some insanely close forward counter on his PK Thunder self-hit and finished it... way too close, I need to know how to deal with Ness because he was throwing out some really punishable stuff.

R7: vs.
One of the top players in my area, ranked higher than myself. (Yeah, I know, right? Ganondorf in the Top 10!)
Kept distance after each Speed combo because he'd respond with a Smash attack. Got some good (risky) Buster work in too. Dude, what's with Dorf's up-Smash endlag? I swear there's none, because he went immediately into ftilt and sent me down into the depths. Won the first match, he opened the second match with a Ganoncide. Which was suddenly scary since we were both on one stock - no room for mistakes since Ganondorf hits like a truck. I managed to keep him at bay and ended with a Vision.

R8: vs.
This guy was 2nd seed today. Okay, wtf. I got absolutely trounced. Like, Lv. 20s taking on Territorial Rotbart levels of destruction. I think in two matches combined I didn't get more than 150% total on him. What's this SHFFfair crap? I shield, he grabs immediately. I go to hit or retreat and he outspeeds me and hits first. First stock I think I only got one hit in before being KOd. WHAT HAPPENED?! I WAS DOING SO WELL! And I can go toe-to-toe with the guy seeded above him! He played so aggressively that I didn't have any room to breathe - even with Speed. Buster didn't close the gap at all. Sheik's combos feel disgusting

I managed to get some MALLC's going - I've not properly tried to learn. Only ever got it by running off the Battlefield/Dreamland platforms and fair into their shield, but I could often jab after the hit because they'd drop the shield and I'd either beat their response or "go intangible" through it. It makes Shulk seem a lot quicker. I've actually witnessed the value in this now, I need to get this down. Good for catching people off, too.

I'm not sure if this has been touched in the Matchup thread, but does anyone have advice on how to fight Ness and Sheik? I have an atrocious time against them especially.

I can't help you with Sheik, but Ness is one of my secondaries:
I suggest to abuse the Monado's range like always so you don't get grabbed and avoid PK Fire for that same reason (Mobility Arts are good for that), if your foe likes to grab and you aren't on your last stock you could use Buster instead of Shield and and try do as much damage as possible because of how early BThrow kills.

Link for the Sheik and Ness Match-Up thread:
http://smashboards.com/threads/sheik-match-up-thread-the-better-zelda.388216/
http://smashboards.com/threads/ness-match-up-discussion-lol-b-throw.400085/

 

[Berserker.]

Well if I can enter a smash4 tournament with my boy Shulk (low b tier) and win the whole tournament when half of the people there are all of these top tier characters like sheik (s tier) Sonic, and pikachu (a tier) who are all top tier characters. That just even furthers my point that if you know what your doing, tier lists do not matter.

Edit: and yea fg isn't a good way to show your moves probably, but still, with the people that wake up and salute the tier list ( which are OTHER peoples opinions BTW) like its all powerful and will kill us all if sending listen to it just seems stupid. I mean the last match in this tournament I was in. My opponent brought a tier list he printed out and before every fight he did, he looked at the tier list and played according, like on tier list like s and a tier he really tried. B tier he kinda tryed. Anything below he didn't really care. Before we fought he looked for Shulk on the tier list, saw he was b tier, laughed in my face, and said "give up the money now, Monado boy. Do you really think you can beat me and my sheik!?" I said yep. We started fighting, I got a 0 to death kill on him and I said Shulk! Smash! Pow! He flipped out saying I cheated and in this tournament if you said someone's cheating or you pause the match, you instantly lose. So if that doesn't even further prove then bull that tier lists are then I don't know what will.

Back in Brawl, Meta Knight dominated. No one can deny that. It was all about Meta Knight. The guy was 1st place in the tier list back in Brawl. You wouldn't see Falcons, Jigglypuffs, Links or Ganondorfs frequenting in the top 8. It was all MK, IC's, Olimar, Diddy, Snake, Falco, Marth most of the time. Now you may be like this because you fear that Shulk is seen as a low tier but like I said, there are patches so who cares. Plus as it stands, Shulk is a good character. It's just that the effort and difficulty of using him is a turn off and he's not good against some characters that are notably frequently used (specifically and imo only fox, sheik, sonic). This makes using him in a tournament difficult. He's kind of viable but it's not the level of viability that's coveted to win a tournament. He's somewhere in mid-tier or upper-mid. High-tier (lower part/or bottom of it) at worst but the general consensus is mid-tier, if you're wondering

Seems like you've been having a good time with Shulk compared to everyone else. Maybe you should probably post in the metagame thread more often. We'd like some of your ideas against those characters or some tricks with Shulk. We're all having a hard time against Sheik, and Sonic, which are the characters you mentioned in your post. If your solution is to be better than the opponent, or to outplay him or her, it doesn't really do much about how the MU is in general

Anyway, I've had enough of the tier list-BS discussion. The mentality of tier lists being BS is wrong and you'll see it when the results from tournaments fly in. All Sheiks, Luigis, Sonics, top tiers, etc. etc. It is what it is

Now stop talking about Shulk's tier position guys. Thanks

 

[TrueSapphire]

I managed to get some MALLC's going - I've not properly tried to learn. Only ever got it by running off the Battlefield/Dreamland platforms and fair into their shield, but I could often jab after the hit because they'd drop the shield and I'd either beat their response or "go intangible" through it. It makes Shulk seem a lot quicker. I've actually witnessed the value in this now, I need to get this down. Good for catching people off, too.

I'm not sure how many people here are following the Shulk Video Archive, but I did post my 3DS MALLC montage. The quality is a bit poor, but decent to view. This should help MALLC learners on how I used my MALLC (and my self promotion... Heh heh heh).

SSB4 3DS (Shulk | Montage) – MALLC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgd8hEhYZcM

One thing I noticed about my MALLC is that I had good, (and a few intentional) results at the start of the battle (usually F-air to someone's shield). That's one way to start a battle!

 

[Monado Master]

Back in Brawl, Meta Knight dominated. No one can deny that. It was all about Meta Knight. The guy was 1st place in the tier list back in Brawl. You wouldn't see Falcons, Jigglypuffs, Links or Ganondorfs frequenting in the top 8. It was all MK, IC's, Olimar, Diddy, Snake, Falco, Marth most of the time. Now you may be like this because you fear that Shulk is seen as a low tier but like I said, there are patches so who cares. Plus as it stands, Shulk is a good character. It's just that the effort and difficulty of using him is a turn off and he's not good against some characters that are notably frequently used (specifically and imo only fox, sheik, sonic). This makes using him in a tournament difficult. He's kind of viable but it's not the level of viability that's coveted to win a tournament. He's somewhere in mid-tier or upper-mid. High-tier (lower part/or bottom of it) at worst but the general consensus is mid-tier, if you're wondering

Seems like you've been having a good time with Shulk compared to everyone else. Maybe you should probably post in the metagame thread more often. We'd like some of your ideas against those characters or some tricks with Shulk. We're all having a hard time against Sheik, and Sonic, which are the characters you mentioned in your post. If your solution is to be better than the opponent, or to outplay him or her, it doesn't really do much about how the MU is in general

Anyway, I've had enough of the tier list-BS discussion. The mentality of tier lists being BS is wrong and you'll see it when the results from tournaments fly in. All Sheiks, Luigis, Sonics, top tiers, etc. etc. It is what it is

Now stop talking about Shulk's tier position guys. Thanks

Yea I'm kinda getting tired of talking about tier lists.

And yea I've been told by some people that I appearly play Shulk as good as or even better then ZeRo but I think that's too far.

 

[kenniky]

Tried to keep him on his toes by mixing up my getups off his dthrows (after rolling away and getting caught by his up-smash twice, I learned pretty quick.) Not sure if it can be teched.

I think I've done it once. It's very finicky.

 

[Deleted member]

So, which of these 2 games I've barely started to play with should I beat first ?

Like for the one on left, Reply for the one on right.

 

[Kevandre]

Trying something a little different from my usual Sunset Shores style. I think it looks baller on the phone cases.

 

[swordsman09]

So, which of these 2 games I've barely started to play with should I beat first ?

Like for the one on left, Reply for the one on right.

The hell is Pandora's Tower?

 

[WindHero]

Well, as far as I know, by finally beating All-Star on Hard with Fox on the 3DS, I have now beat AS Mode on Hard with every non-Mii character. :3 My friends hate fighting me with all Randoms. XD

Pandora's Tower is not something I know much about, but I think it failed to reach American shores... Isn't that the one where the girl on the cover falls under some sort of curse and you have to get through the tower to cure her...? IDK, but I'd say The Last Story should be good. Never played it myself, since Wii and RPGs have a bad history with me. (I never seem to finish them...)

I guess my next hurdle is to collect all custom moves and Mii outfits/hats. Those are the last two achievements to get...! (Spoiler: I have two hammers.)

 

[Deleted member]

Pandora's Tower is not something I know much about, but I think it failed to reach American shores...

Actually, it did actually manage to reach American shores...in early 2013 soon after the Wii U was released.

As of this post, I own the other two Operation Rainfall games (Xenoblade and The Last Story), but not Pandora's Tower, so I don't have an opinion on it. I remember hearing it was underrated, though.

 

[MeatOfJustice]

Please understand this Off-Topic post:

I announce directly to you that Satoru Iwata has died at the age of 55:
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2015/150713e.pdf

 

[Deleted member]

Please understand this Off-Topic post:

I announce directly to you that Satoru Iwata has died at the age of 55:
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2015/150713e.pdf

May he rest in peace. He was a great man to Nintendo.

I think we should thank him for helping give Xenoblade a chance to shine in the spotlight. I bet he played a major role in that, such as creating the title for this amazing series.

 

[AlvisCPU]

Iwata was taken waaay too young... 55, just... like, my parents are almost that old. Really sad news to wake up to.

The hell is Pandora's Tower?

Pretty dark, plays like a dungeon-only Zelda, has beautiful design.
The plot concept is really cool but I don't really have the time right now to go into detail - basically, the main character's partner (fiance?) is cursed and slowly turning into a monster. Main Character can temporarily revert the transformation by getting her to eat cursed beast flesh raw, but can only "save her" if he gets Master Flesh from the masters of these twelve towers suspended over a giant chasm.
Pretty good game, I personally enjoyed TLS more.

 

[Berserker.]

I just woke up to this too

RIP Iwata

 

[BluePikmin11]

http://smashboards.com/threads/president-iwata-passes-away.409946/page-2
Pay your respects here.

 

[Pikalink]

A little off topic but I went to Fye today and saw an Xenosaga anime movie. Dude, I had no idea Xenosaga even had a movie. :0

P.S. I visited the Pikachu board yesterday. For some people he needs a buff in killing power and in kill setups because "his only kill setup is Uthrow to Thunder or edgeguarding". Yeah, say that to characters like Link that have to pray for a random smash to hit for killing.

I actually secondary Pikachu and don't main Link whatsoever(I can't really main/second 4 characters and still keep them playable.). The only characters you would ever see me use in a tournament setting is Kirby or Shulk.
But what I can say is while Pika doesn't have a define kill set up look at how freakishly fast his smashes are. While they aren't deadly they still come out fast and I wouldn't like an U-Smash to the face. Also sad truth may be it for edge guarding spaming B and occasionally F-airing off there isn't that difficult. Pikachu is in a better spot for killing than other characters. I can't really say much for Link's kill set ups.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The Kutthroats have set out to draw their character thanking Iwata for all he has done.

We invite you to do the same.

 

[Monado Master]

May Iwata rest in peace. We love you.

 

[WindHero]

@ Monado Master : I sincerely hope you meant "peace"

I concur, it is said to see him go, especially so young. Like @ AlvisCPU , my parents are that age too... Whether he was Christian or not, I offer my prayers for him...