I haven't really seen much discussion about 
vs , so I'd like to put just a couple little feelers out. I know it's still rather soon after Roy's release, but I'd like to have at least a little idea what to do when he pops up as an opponent.
I had two matches against Roy this morning, my very first experience fighting Roy in Smash 4. I lost the first by a narrow margin, and won the second somehow even though I died a horrible SD early on in the fight. What I gathered:
In Shulk's favor:
+ Superior range: I had more than one instance in the fight where Roy was sitting there, charging his Neutral B. If I tried to jump in and interrupt, he would instantly let go. However, Shulk's aerials are great for interrupting if you use the tip of the blade. Also, you can stand just outside the range of his B, and connect with FSmash for a satisfying punish.
+ Vision: OK, this is an advantage in a lot of MUs, but I found it particularly effective against most of Roy's edgeguarding options. My opponent seemed somewhat savvy, using some clever tactics, but he seemed very reluctant to chase me off stage for any KOs. (Who can blame him with Roy's recovery?) He often used neutral or up B at the edge of the stage when I was returning, the latter of which was a huge Vision bait. I rarely had difficulty recovering from off stage. JVC also seems to be a risky but highly rewarding option when he uses Neutral B.
+ Strong air game: If you can get Roy off the edge of the stage, Shulk can have some good fun with Roy, especially in Jump mode. Smash seems a little risky here, but a single FAir can make recovery a dream for Roy. My opponent was very on top of his air dodges though, so I didn't really get to do this much in the first match. Shulk's aerials really space out Roy quite well though, especially if you can condition him into shielding or countering, leading to an easy grab.
+ Roy's ending lag: Shulk technically has worse ending lag as far as I can tell, but Roy's dodged attacks were easy to punish in those matches.
Now, in Roy's favor:
- High attack power: Roy really kept me on my toes with how strong his attacks were. I wasn't expecting that level of power going into the MU, and retaliating with Buster only exacerbates the problem unless you make sure not to whiff your attacks or hit his shield. I was already in kill range at about 115%, maybe a little more.
- Strong combo options: Getting caught in Roy's Dancing Blade is a big no-no. I lost the first match because I wasn't cautious enough around that side B. His other specials don't combo too well, but some of his tilt and smash attacks seemed to flow into each other. Also, some of his attacks are multi-hit strikes, like USmash.
- Ground speed: It wasn't a huge problem, but Roy's ground speed kept me on the defensive sometimes. Whenever I whiffed something, Roy wasted no time in rushing in for a punish. He doesn't have Marth's speed, but it felt at least equal to Vanilla Shulk. (Note: I have not examined any frame data, this could be placebo.)
Finally, I'll just say a bit on Monado Arts:
Jump should be used as normal, but I think it's kinda risky at high%s. Roy has a lot of kill options.
Speed seemed useful for the grab game, but it required conditioning to work well. My opponent was quite Counter-happy, and my initial attempts to NAir him backfired until I started mixing in grabs. The lower damage is noticeable though.
Shield... I didn't really use much. Roy usually killed me around 120% or so, well before I consider pulling out Shield. I also SD'd once with an accidental activation.
Buster: a really risky option, considering Roy's already-high power. However, it did help to get him up to kill levels fairly easily.
Smash: Also risky, but no different from the other times it's risky. I liked to use it for chasing off stage.
Overall, I lost the first match due to unfamiliarity with Roy, but the second match was more interesting. I SD'd when Roy was only at 41% on his first stock, yet I managed to come back and win by using all of Shulk's tools. The biggest help was when I activated Buster when Roy was at 50% on his second stock, and landed a long string of attacks. I punished his Neutral B with a FSmash, chased him with a UAir, UTilted him when he was coming back down, altogether getting him around 128% before Buster ran out. That was enough to launch him far enough off stage that he couldn't reach the ledge.
Still, this was only two matches. Feel free to disregard half the stuff here, I'm merely tossing a few ideas out to see if my idea is in the ballpark for those with more experience in this MU.
vs , so I'd like to put just a couple little feelers out. I know it's still rather soon after Roy's release, but I'd like to have at least a little idea what to do when he pops up as an opponent.I had two matches against Roy this morning, my very first experience fighting Roy in Smash 4. I lost the first by a narrow margin, and won the second somehow even though I died a horrible SD early on in the fight. What I gathered:
In Shulk's favor:
+ Superior range: I had more than one instance in the fight where Roy was sitting there, charging his Neutral B. If I tried to jump in and interrupt, he would instantly let go. However, Shulk's aerials are great for interrupting if you use the tip of the blade. Also, you can stand just outside the range of his B, and connect with FSmash for a satisfying punish.
+ Vision: OK, this is an advantage in a lot of MUs, but I found it particularly effective against most of Roy's edgeguarding options. My opponent seemed somewhat savvy, using some clever tactics, but he seemed very reluctant to chase me off stage for any KOs. (Who can blame him with Roy's recovery?) He often used neutral or up B at the edge of the stage when I was returning, the latter of which was a huge Vision bait. I rarely had difficulty recovering from off stage. JVC also seems to be a risky but highly rewarding option when he uses Neutral B.
+ Strong air game: If you can get Roy off the edge of the stage, Shulk can have some good fun with Roy, especially in Jump mode. Smash seems a little risky here, but a single FAir can make recovery a dream for Roy. My opponent was very on top of his air dodges though, so I didn't really get to do this much in the first match. Shulk's aerials really space out Roy quite well though, especially if you can condition him into shielding or countering, leading to an easy grab.
+ Roy's ending lag: Shulk technically has worse ending lag as far as I can tell, but Roy's dodged attacks were easy to punish in those matches.
Now, in Roy's favor:
- High attack power: Roy really kept me on my toes with how strong his attacks were. I wasn't expecting that level of power going into the MU, and retaliating with Buster only exacerbates the problem unless you make sure not to whiff your attacks or hit his shield. I was already in kill range at about 115%, maybe a little more.
- Strong combo options: Getting caught in Roy's Dancing Blade is a big no-no. I lost the first match because I wasn't cautious enough around that side B. His other specials don't combo too well, but some of his tilt and smash attacks seemed to flow into each other. Also, some of his attacks are multi-hit strikes, like USmash.
- Ground speed: It wasn't a huge problem, but Roy's ground speed kept me on the defensive sometimes. Whenever I whiffed something, Roy wasted no time in rushing in for a punish. He doesn't have Marth's speed, but it felt at least equal to Vanilla Shulk. (Note: I have not examined any frame data, this could be placebo.)
Finally, I'll just say a bit on Monado Arts:
Jump should be used as normal, but I think it's kinda risky at high%s. Roy has a lot of kill options.
Speed seemed useful for the grab game, but it required conditioning to work well. My opponent was quite Counter-happy, and my initial attempts to NAir him backfired until I started mixing in grabs. The lower damage is noticeable though.
Shield... I didn't really use much. Roy usually killed me around 120% or so, well before I consider pulling out Shield. I also SD'd once with an accidental activation.
Buster: a really risky option, considering Roy's already-high power. However, it did help to get him up to kill levels fairly easily.
Smash: Also risky, but no different from the other times it's risky. I liked to use it for chasing off stage.
Overall, I lost the first match due to unfamiliarity with Roy, but the second match was more interesting. I SD'd when Roy was only at 41% on his first stock, yet I managed to come back and win by using all of Shulk's tools. The biggest help was when I activated Buster when Roy was at 50% on his second stock, and landed a long string of attacks. I punished his Neutral B with a FSmash, chased him with a UAir, UTilted him when he was coming back down, altogether getting him around 128% before Buster ran out. That was enough to launch him far enough off stage that he couldn't reach the ledge.
Still, this was only two matches. Feel free to disregard half the stuff here, I'm merely tossing a few ideas out to see if my idea is in the ballpark for those with more experience in this MU.
