Shulk custom moveset discussion (Standard Custom Moveset Project discussion)

[Berserker.]

You guys want the "niche sets" to basically be

1113
2113
3113

?

That way.. we have...

1313
2313
3313
1113
2113
3113
2222
3333

8 custom sets unless we should make a specific one against zoners

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Imo Core Shulk set:

1 = Monado Arts
3 = Back Slash Charge
1 = Air Slash
3 = Power Vision

Spoiler: My reasons for why this set is balanced

Monado Arts & Why:

MArts overall are balanced to fit any game-play style you want with Shulk whether it be Singles Doubles FFA. .anything. They don't hold you down to commit to one MArt like DMArts do, & the very shortened duration of HMArts with their increased & decreased stats doubled, is very aggressive & momentary-based. MArts are also well-rounded airborne & grounded due to DMArts taking longer activating & HMArts making some of the Arts borderline useless at times.

Back Slash Charge & Why:

Back Slash in general is a "meh" attack & is kind of our "Falcon Punch" move so-to-speak, but Back Slash Charge has more utility than both Back Slash & Back Slash Leap. In the aspect of not only having an additional means of recovery in the horizontal department, but also granting Super Armor during most of the duration Shulk is leaping forward. Despite the move being unsafe early game, the move has a lot of linger to it including a sliding hit at the very end of the move's landing. And even though it deals the least damage of the Back Slashes, BSC imo wins in the useful department overall currently.

Air Slash & Why:

This kinda hurts me nominating the default AS over the other 2 custom variants, but for said reasons, we'll stay safe & stick with AS for now. Air Slash overall is balanced in that it has decent horizontal drifting after the 2nd hit coming down, & that it's fairly good vertical height for what it is. There's not really an issue with using AS over the customs when augmenting the AS with more-so Jump than Speed, but regardless both do the work despite Speed reducing Jump Height. AAS & MAS have their uses, yet AS is more, consistent I guess you could say.

Power Vision & Why:

Vision was amazing enough; put on a customized Vision that does stupid strong knockback & damage and what do ya get? An outstanding popular-choice for a Counterattack, that's what. PV alone deals a lot of damage & knockback & give it the right timing & very limited use for the right times & you can avoid it's drawback of being less successful the more it's used. A few PVs & you're set. Although Vision & Dash Vision have their uses seeing that PV is the slowest of the 3, PV shines & rewards you a lot more.

This imo is a balanced set.
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Subjective choice set inbound:

2 = Decisive Monado Arts
3 = Back Slash Charge
3 = Mighty Air Slash
3 = Power Vision

Spoiler: My subjective reasons why I want this popular

Decisive Monado Arts & Why:

It could be because the lack-of focus on managing MArts expresses a sort of laziness, or more-so focus on the Art at hand rather than adjusting constantly. Mostly I use the Art because its drawbacks aren't amplified, & that the advantages are slightly increased, making a good balance yet more flavor added. Canceling an Art is sacrificed, but in return the longevity of a MArt increases. The trade-offs are a preference due to my admiration for Shield, but regardless the ground-game mobility of DMArts improves while the airborne aspect is basically the same except for activating DJump off-screen because it takes a while longer for the self-activation to happen. This Custom does fairly well in Doubles like the HMArts can, so that's another plus for me.

Back Slash Charge & Why:

See first core set reason. Also BSC together with MAS gives me my blend of a reliable horizontal recovery move, & a most-of-the-time reliable vertical recovery move.

Mighty Air Slash & Why:

This Custom gets to shine in my post thankfully for several reasons. For one the vertical height of this AS is the greatest among the 3 Air Slashes, & that it really helps my low recovering if I wanna be aggressive while edge-guarding balls deep. At first the main reason for MAS was because its superior Jump Height stat is so impressive that Shield mode dumbing it's Height down is still a decent vertical option of recovery. But now. . .this move can be used on BF to act as a Marth tactic & OoS > JC > UpB effectively in Vanilla mode. Any MArt that reduces Jump Height can still make it if the 2nd hit is inputted, & augmenting this Custom UpB with Jump or Speed is fantastic either way. Despite the reach of MAS being shorter, it can put in work given the right character MU.

Power Vision & Why:

See first core set reason.

This set can be useful for Doubles thanks to DMArts, & I would type my final 3rd set but I'm tired & can't contribute to the conversations of discussions.

That Bs vs bsc.

I think it's safe to say that 3313 is going to be considered as a critical set. Same can be said for 1313

Let's talk more about decisive arts. Honestly, I like decisive buster and decisive speed. @ ChronoPenguin weren't you an advocate of decisive speed?

I love Dec Speed, I think its broken in mid range.

To put it another way ftilt comes out on frame 14, dtilt on frame 10. Nair on frame 13 and Nair's hitbox takes time to move around him.

Jab is frame 5 and grab frame 7, dash grab frame 9.

We don't really have frame advantage on moves. With our high frame count we get beat to the punch by a lot of moves in general

With speed though you can somewhat make up for it because of the ability to get in range to punish. MA speed is already the fastest Walker but DMA pushes this further

IMO speed lets you be aggressive because predicting my grab vs Nair/fair from mid is hard at that speed. If I master speeds walk then I also get to add dtilt and ftilt to my approach. The other arts don't zone break as well on the ground and I feel Dec Speed is comparable to Jump as well. With Jump you may as well consider yourself in a different weight tier.

As far as Dec buster goes to me you wrack up so much damage you may just end up killing them in Dec buster. I am a fan. If Dec speed has any turn off its that you then have to adjust to its speed.

 

[Jerm]

@ Masonomace I unfortunately don't have too much to add since I am against customs for the most part simply because I find them really annoying. Whenever I play people with customs they just have annoying properties. Not necessarily broken..but definitely annoying. I haven't unlocked them all either but I have used some.

The back slash with the armor was cool at first, but it has almost zero knockback when used from the front so you have to solely use it in the back which makes it very situational and less useful than the regular.

I also used the high leaping backslash (Sorry I don't know the official names x_x), it is nice in the sense that it comes out faster than the regular one, but it covers zero horizontal distance which again limits its overall use.

I have also tried out the hyper arts. They are intense not going to lie but they run out so fast and do not recharge at an increased rate so I found myself constantly switching arts which was very distracting. If you don't capitalize within the short window you have the art will be wasted.

Sorry I don't have more relevant experience/ worthwhile input on Shulk's customs but I'm just not feelin' customs in general.

 

[Jigglymaster]

1113 is probably my pick, mostly due to the fact that Power vision is a straight upgrade in the fact that it's stronger and it actually has more active counter frames (it's 45 frames to the regular's 35 I believe). The only downside is that it isn't spammable but you couldn't be spamming it in the first place.

I'm finding normal backslash as a better attack imo because it's faster and stronger than the superarmor version. I don't usually use it to try to get actual backslashes, but more as a 3rd jump to juke my opponents out when I'm going to land, I usually find that working the most. The superarmor one sounds great and all, but it will do almost nothing to a shielding opponent but give them more punishment time.

Hyper Monado Arts and Decisive both have their ups and downs, but honestly the default is the most balanced and lets you adapt more than the other two can, so thats why the default is my choice.

Default Air Slash should be obvious.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

One more Back slash lover.
I presume you are talking about them hops over greninja shurikans and the like and getting a frontal punish to boot.

I went back to my DMA to play around a bit.
Dec Speeds ability to just No sale their shielding with grabs which in turn conditions them to allow your aerials and tilts is so good. Projectile use gets iffier when Shulk can catch you before it leaves your hand or break into your space in time to fair your lag.
1-1-1-3
2-1-1-3
3-1-1-3?
Might as well.

 

[Berserker.]

Well that settles it. We'll basically have 6 sets except 3 of them have back slash charge and the other 3 have default back slash. Is that fine guys?

 

[NairWizard]

Yep, sounds good. I'll bring my DS with my own customs to tourneys anyway, so as long as the sets that we choose are suitable for most people we've done a good job from my perspective.

 

[warriorman222]

Hyper Smash K.Os ZSS with an Ftilt at 110%.

Hyper Buster and utilt juggle her around 200%.

Hyper Jump loses all it's combos. At least your recovery is really good.

Hyper Shield... If shield was a boulder, than this is a mountain.
No input on Hyper Speed.

And Power Vision OHKOs Robin with a Hammer, with some knockback to spare too. It didn't OHKO Mario, but he was had past halfway point of FD already, and he was barely alive and had taken a clean 40%.

 

[Masonomace]

That Bs vs bsc.

Ya lost me >:

@ Jerm Yo sup. No shweat about it & thanks for your post. Back Slash Charge & Back Slash Leap have their quirks, & personally the most popular Custom set we'll probably see is 1-1-1-3.

I'll keep my mind open & expect more when Doubles & or Crew Battles take place with Shulk in them. There's so much potential with Shulk's Customs in Doubles or 3v3 / 4v4 / Crews that I think it'd be somewhat of a waste not using them.

 

[Masonomace]

So for a recap of the Customs @ Berserker. :

1. Decisive Monado Arts / DMArts
   -Cannot cancel the current active Monado Art
   -Last for 20 seconds
   -Take 1.5 seconds to self-activate
   -Increased stats are slightly buffed up
   -Decreased stats stay unchanged
   
   
2. Hyper Monado Arts / HMArts
   -Last for 6 seconds
   -Take 0.8 seconds to self-activate
   -Increased stats are amplified
   -Decreased stats are amplified

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1. Back Slash Leap / BSL
   -Vertical height increases, Falling down faster
   -Barely any horizontal distance
   -Start-up hits faster
   -Ending cooldown is longer
   -Relatively same damage as BS, but with more damage outcomes that deal less or much more
   
   
2. Back Slash Charge / BSC
   -Vertical height decreases, only able to avoid ground-projectiles / traps
   -Much greater horizontal distance
   -Start-up & Ending cooldown are the longest in comparison to BS & BSL
   -Damage & knockback are weaker
   -Has Super Armor

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1. Advancing Air Slash / AAS
   -Reduces vertical recovery to 2nd slash
   -Improves horizontal recovery to 2nd slash
   -Improves overall drifting distance after the 1st or 2nd slash
   -2nd slash goes horizontally forward & dips downward
   -2nd slash launches foes more horizontally, KO'ing slightly earlier than AS
   -Easier to sweetspot the ledge
   -Deals more damage than AS-Can slide off platforms / across stage landings e.g. slopes
   
   
2. Mighty Air Slash / MAS
   -Improves vertical recovery to 2nd slash
   -Reduces horizontal recovery to 2nd slash
   -Reduces overall drifting distance in Freefall state
   -2nd slash goes upward
   -2nd slash launches foes more vertically, KO'ing earlier or later depending on the ceiling
   -Harder to connect both hits consistently
   -Deals more damage than AAS or AS if both hits connect
   -Can reach higher placed platforms on certain stages e.g. Battlefield

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1. Dash Vision / DV
   -Distance the counter covers increases airborne & grounded
   -Faster active counterattack
   -Forward input to DV travels farther too
   -Deals less damage overall than Vision
   
   
2. Power Vision / PV
   -Distance the covers is the same as Vision grounded. Unknown about airborne
   -Slower active counterattack
   -Forward input to PV travels the same as Vision, though it's slower
   -Deals more damage overall than Vision

 

[ChronoPenguin]

AAS slides on platform/stage landing?

 

[Masonomace]

AAS slides on platform/stage landing?

I don't recall anyone saying that, (didn't read all of the thread unless that was me saying that) but unrelated to the quote you can slide off platforms if you aim the AAS right when being under a platform. Unless AAS can slide across a slope like YI(Brawl)'s ledges or Corneria's sloped wing, or even the slopes on Kongo Jungle 64 if you Up-B through it. Basically slopes + AAS could equal goodness but the practical usage of it is minimum.

EDIT:
Oh & the:

That Bs vs bsc.

^ needs some eggsplainin to do.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Just figured it would be a point in favor of AAS in your list.

 

[Masonomace]

Just figured it would be a point in favor of AAS in your list.

Ah, at first it was vague because idk where you directed that post at, but now I know. Thanks for the point

 

[ChronoPenguin]

As for bs vs BSC.
I was taking note that there seems to be a divide between shulk players in terms of which back slash we prefer. BSL is often unfavored so it ends up as BS vs BSC.

Frankly I still think BS > BSC in the majority of situations. Unlike Zards rocksmash, I simply cannot find the Super armor particularly useful in actual combat. You have to hope you catch them by surprise because otherwise its shield and punish, hard because you do no damage, no shield stun, and have tremendous lag.
Not to say its without merit, just impractical to the point im surprised it had so much favour.

 

[Masonomace]

As for bs vs BSC.
I was nothing that there seems to be a divide between shulk players in terms of which back slash we prefer. BSL is often unfavored so it ends up as BS vs BSC.

Frankly I still think BS > BSC in the majority of situations. Unlike Zards rocksmash, I simply cannot find the Super armor particularly useful in actual combat. You have to hope you catch them by surprise because otherwise its shield and punish, hard because you do no damage, no shield stun, and have tremendous lag.
Not to say its without merit, just impractical to the point im surprised it had so much favour.

For sure. I don't like using BSC at any given % range between 0 - 60%, & ofc that can be character-dependent. I feel safer using it reliably more when their % is high enough in case for the hit to actually deal decent knockback so that I wouldn't get punished or end up trading damage. The Super Armor & superior horizontal distance it provides are kind of obscure with how BSC works with its cons, but I think if we master the way of BSL's damages & utilizing it for what strengths it has, it could be a runner-up for 2nd choice.

Mainly I use BSC for a horizontal recovery, & the Super Armor helps avoid some edge-guarding bull **** in the meanwhile.

 

[Masonomace]

So here's something slightly educating:

Back Slash Charge's slide distance can be affected by the MArts. As in, if you have Speed active, the slide won't travel as far than you would normally, or with Jump active. This may be a traction effect which means that perhaps stage terrain would affect BSC's slide as well. It can be interesting with HMArts in conjunction with BSC, because HSpeed active while using BSC, you practically slide nowhere. I don't think the Frame Data is affected because of Speed, but I could expect it a bit.

This could be useful for baiting the opponent into punishing you, not that sure about it though.

*EDITED 5 hours later*:
I came across that finding with BSC + HSpeed by wondering how I could make any of the Back Slashes more useful, & given that the majority of the Shulk community adores Speed, I thought I'd mention that slightly interesting trivial fact.

Things I still wanna test that I myself am not aware of or know for sure to help the war of BS vs BSL vs BSC:

• Whether a Jump Height-altering MArt DMArt or HMArt affects BSC's or BSL's height off the ground
• Whether a Air Speed-altering MArt DMArt or HMArt affects BSC's or BSL's distance
• Whether that 18% attack from BSL using Buster DBuster or HBuster maybe wreck someone's bubble shield
• Whether BSC's insufferable knockback can be improved when augmenting Smash DSmash or HSmash

 

[Berserker.]

Things I still wanna test that I myself am not aware of or know for sure to help the war of BS vs BSL vs BSC:

• Whether a Jump Height-altering MArt DMArt or HMArt affects BSC's or BSL's height off the ground
• Whether a Air Speed-altering MArt DMArt or HMArt affects BSC's or BSL's distance
• Whether that 18% attack from BSL using Buster DBuster or HBuster maybe wreck someone's bubble shield
• Whether BSC's insufferable knockback can be improved when augmenting Smash DSmash or HSmash

Jump doesn't alter any of the BS's jump height

I'm not sure what the factors are as to why jump and speed but I just tested it again. Only speed has a noticeable change. Jump and shield are the same as vanilla BSC

BS buster on back hit already wrecks shields so it's safe to assume that BSL 18% damage will do more shield damage

Also, BSC's knockback is improved in HSmash but not by that much. You'll only feel improvement at mid %'s

 

[Masonomace]

Jump doesn't alter any of the BS's jump height

I'm not sure what the factors are as to why jump and speed but I just tested it again. Only speed has a noticeable change. Jump and shield are the same as vanilla BSC

BS buster on back hit already wrecks shields so it's safe to assume that BSL 18% damage will do more shield damage

Also, BSC's knockback is improved in HSmash but not by that much. You'll only feel improvement at mid %'s

Not even Jump affects Back Slash Leap? Depressing. I hoped that would be the case but it's not. BSC's distance looked unchanged when using Jump & Shield, but I literally tested them like, once each & didn't wanna say it out there without being confident, & then realized how different Speed made BSC's slide.

The war continues, but perhaps Speed's factor to BSC makes it slightly better of a move if we don't like the slide.

 

[Berserker.]

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-initial-release.381395

Good job guys. I'm glad that we were able to settle with the set of customs chosen for Shulk without any heated disagreements

Final set

Critical sets
1313
1113
3113

Supplement sets
3313
2313
2113

 

[Masonomace]

Eggcelent.

With that out of the way, now we can practice some obscure Customs Special sets in hopes of discovering more:
3222
3232
3322

I'm thinking of directing some attention to DV in hopes of finding usage for it, even for edge-guard-breaking pressure & making DV become a solid counter-horizontal recovery option. HMArts also interest me now that I've touched up on the Custom slightly more thanks to HSmash (thanks berserk) & HSpeed, & I want to find as many useful things that I can with those 6 seconds. And about HShield, it looks like we can de-activate HShield much quicker than we could with Shield or DShield. I realized this when surviving a Home-Run Bat at 0% with HShield, that I was acting out of the hit-stun much quicker than I thought it would, & if that's one extra reason to utilize HShield for the emergency survival of certain death, I ain't mad, but that Ganondorf using Warlock Punch in attempt to KO us at 80% would be mad. The transition from activating HShield & de-activating it to switch to HJump is a massive change, almost to the point I feel like I'm Lucario recovering with high Aura ExtremeSpeed. HJump's DoubleJump puts some character's entire recovery to shame. I also wanna give some love to BSL too. The 18% from BSL augmented with HBuster deals an insane 30%, but the rate of success connecting that is rare. I'd probably use BSL for edge-guarding mostly, but I'll mess around with it later this week.
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So as I'm utilizing MArt canceling much quicker thanks to being able to do it during hit-stun in a launch, I'm also realizing it's not as important for HMArts because they self-activate faster with the stronger effects (e.g. HJump or HSpeed's air speed instantly helping your recovery after hit-stun finishes) to help come back from off-stage. However I find that it's even more important to MArt cycle to DJump or DSpeed because they take longer to self-activate (like a second long, but that can be a long time in real-time fighting), plus the slightly better effects of DJump or DSpeed's recovery do make it easier. And because it's impossible to MArt cancel DMArts hence DMArts don't cancel, your only focus anytime you're Vanilla is to cycle to DJump or DSpeed during hit-stun as quick as you're able to, so that by the time the hit-stun finishes, so will your DMArt's activation accordingly.

This also applies to attempting to use MArt cycling or MArt canceling to cycling while getting combo'd with HMArts because HMArts activate quicker giving you that invincibility frame window to get out of that mess. DMArts taking longer to self-activate makes the timing trickier if you're trying to avoid combos with DMArts' invincibility window, since you have to notice that you're getting combo'd or about to be combo'd from a D-throw setup ahead of time.

I haven't made any progress fully messing around with BSL, BSC, AAS, MAS, DV, or PV yet. I'll talk more about them hopefully in my next post, but I kinda have the feeling that MAS's sourspot attack in the 1st hit (Beam) may help connect to the 2nd hit easier but don't quote me on that until I fully messed with it.
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Something cool to add about the Monado Art customs inspired by @ erico9001 's comment about Monado Arts taking 0.8 seconds to activate once cycled to. I set the game speed in Training Mode to 1/4x & used a stopwatch accordingly to reduce error so I could find da numbers for DMArts & HMArts.

DMArts take 1.5 seconds to self-activate, while HMArts take 0.8 seconds to self-activate which is the same time it takes for default MArts to self-activate as well.

 

[Berserker.]

Dat triple post. Gonna merge that so you won't have to report yourself

Also, errrgh. I'm gonna have to change the OP again. Alright

 

[Berserker.]

Due to the recent news about customs, I think this thread needs to be stickied and bumped

 

[Masonomace]

I'd like to talk more about Advancing Air Slash. This custom could use some attention & love atm. Anytime a player feels comfy from a safe distance, they're really not, since the 2nd hit of AAS zooms forward & gets in their personal space real quick.

For a example of its capability, go into Training Mode as the 1st player Shulk with the AAS custom on & die in order to spawn in the middle, & set the 2nd player CPU Behavior to Jump. The 2nd hit of AAS basically hits with the edge of that slash.

 

[kenniky]

I'd like to talk more about Advancing Air Slash. This custom could use some attention & love atm. Anytime a player feels comfy from a safe distance, they're really not, since the 2nd hit of AAS zooms forward & gets in their personal space real quick.

For a example of its capability, go into Training Mode as the 1st player Shulk with the AAS custom on & die in order to spawn in the middle, & set the 2nd player CPU Behavior to Jump. The 2nd hit of AAS basically hits with the edge of that slash.

The problem I have with AAS is that it's a terrible recovery move :/ the regular AS is right in the middle in terms of recovery and offense which I think is pretty good.

 

[Masonomace]

The problem I have with AAS is that it's a terrible recovery move :/ the regular AS is right in the middle in terms of recovery and offense which I think is pretty good.

Ah yes, recovery is usually what holds AAS back from being better than AS or MAS even. However, AAS has better air speed influence even when he's drifting in the helpless state, & this is what we need to utilize about AAS I feel. Delaying the 2nd slash not only inches you closer, but you gain much more horizontal distance from holding towards the direction that you're recovering.

Anyway here's a quick insight about AAS I wrote down for personal note:

Advancing Air Slash / AAS
-Reduces vertical recovery to 2nd slash
-Improves horizontal recovery to 2nd slash
-Improves overall drifting distance after the 1st or 2nd slash
-2nd slash goes horizontally forward & dips downward
-2nd slash launches foes more horizontally, KO'ing slightly earlier than AS
-Easier to sweetspot the ledge
-Deals more damage than AS
-Can slide off platforms / across stage landings e.g. slopes

The risky part about AS was the lack of snapping to the ledge, since AS could only do so with the startup of its 1st & 2nd slashes. However, with AAS not only can you snap the ledge with the 1st slash's startup, but the 2nd slash can be used aggressively while grabbing the ledge much quicker & more safely by snapping to the ledge at any position in his 2nd slash, beginning or the advancing slash itself. OoS AAS is also slightly stronger, & they have practically the same landing lag.

Adjusting to AAS's recovery pattern can be awkward, but thankfully the 2nd slash dipping downward won't be changed by a MArt, & the air speed in between makes AAS so good that Shulk has a better horizontal recovery option than even Back Slash Charge, which doesn't say thaaat much, but Jump & Speed are definitely your best buds here.

 

[Skydra]

I'm seeing a lot of love for those low KO percents with Hyper arts, which makes sense. Power vision is also great since you shouldn't be countering too much anyway.

But why so little Mighty Air Slash love? Seems like the recovery bonus is great, and if you're using it as an attack you get a damage/knockback bonus. Obviously trading recovery distance and power for range might not be what everyone would want, but there's only 1 set with MAS in OP. Its not exactly the best move to be using as an attack anyway when special fall is so punishable if you miss.

Personally, I'd be going for either 3133 or 1133... Hyper art is great but not universally. The custom Back Slashes are OK, but I'd really only want to use 3 for the super armor.

 

[Masonomace]

I'm seeing a lot of love for those low KO percents with Hyper arts, which makes sense. Power vision is also great since you shouldn't be countering too much anyway.

But why so little Mighty Air Slash love? Seems like the recovery bonus is great, and if you're using it as an attack you get a damage/knockback bonus. Obviously trading recovery distance and power for range might not be what everyone would want, but there's only 1 set with MAS in OP. Its not exactly the best move to be using as an attack anyway when special fall is so punishable if you miss.

Personally, I'd be going for either 3133 or 1133... Hyper art is great but not universally. The custom Back Slashes are OK, but I'd really only want to use 3 for the super armor.

Mighty Air Slash gets very little love for probably four reasons:

1. The range is weak
2. The air speed drifting between the 1st & 2nd slash is horrid, which is why most use MAS & just FF to the ground faster (Jump mode makes this wonderful)
3. The knockback sending them upward is a little underwhelming (but the damage sure isn't!)
4. Connecting with the 2nd slash (all this requires to do is wait for them to float to their highest point airborne)

I use MAS the most & love the results it gives me. I would recommend MAS, & like what you can do to alter the hit on stages with guiding lips like Battlefield, MAS can do the same & can relatively hit someone standing near the ledge from a fair distance.

I'm all for MAS

 

[erico9001]

I'd like to talk more about Advancing Air Slash. This custom could use some attention & love atm. Anytime a player feels comfy from a safe distance, they're really not, since the 2nd hit of AAS zooms forward & gets in their personal space real quick.

For a example of its capability, go into Training Mode as the 1st player Shulk with the AAS custom on & die in order to spawn in the middle, & set the 2nd player CPU Behavior to Jump. The 2nd hit of AAS basically hits with the edge of that slash.

I was thinking that this custom needs more looking into as well.

Wow holy crap. I never bothered around with AAS before, so I never noticed this.. Damn that helpless state has ****ing amazing air speed! It's insane!

I'd like to talk more about Advancing Air Slash. This custom could use some attention & love atm. Anytime a player feels comfy from a safe distance, they're really not, since the 2nd hit of AAS zooms forward & gets in their personal space real quick.

For a example of its capability, go into Training Mode as the 1st player Shulk with the AAS custom on & die in order to spawn in the middle, & set the 2nd player CPU Behavior to Jump. The 2nd hit of AAS basically hits with the edge of that slash.

And wow.

So here's my analysis of AAS

Air Speed after use of the move (same speed with both first and second strike) appears to be exactly the same as Shulk's normal air speeds. It is effected by Monado Arts still, so Monado Shield still has crappy air speed. This is a pretty big realization though, and it makes quite a difference.

It goes without saying the AAS has better horizontal recovery than AS. You can recover from pretty damn far away. To help you visualize this horizontal recovery without having to go in the game, here's an example: The stage is battlefield, and you're off the stage. Shulk's body is just touching off camera. When you are directly horizontal from the edge, so Shulk is level with it, you can use AAS to recover. Even from such a great distance!

As for height, it has a maximum height of normal air slash's first strike only. Once you hit B the second time, there is no longer and more vertical distance. Furthermore, you cancel out some of the vertical height when you press B quickly. The second strike of air slash sort of interrupts the first strike then.

So I did some testing to learn what's the best way to recover with AAS with a custom stage. I do a full hop from the platform then combine up B and drifting to see how far up and to the right I end up on the platforms

I start out with a simple AAS, not forwarded.

Then I do the forwarded version. As expected, the forwarded version has greater recovery distance. I proceed with the rest of the tests to be forwarded from here on. When I did this AAS, I did it shortly after I jumped and drifted in helpless state to the platform.

Another forwarded version. The only difference from this one and the last one is I made sure to use AAS at a lower height (longer delay after the jump). As you can tell, it's the same position as the above one, even though I spent a longer time drifting not in helpless state. This proves that AAS helpless drift is the same speed as the normal drift. You will cover the same distance if you are really high above the edge using it as if you are somewhat higher. I can confirm height does matter though, which I will show soon.

If you put a nice delay between the first and second strikes of air slash, you get noticeably larger recovery distance (same platform but more to the right, if I had another platform on top it might be on it).

Now here's what I get when activating AAS when I just become level with the top platform:

For maximum distance, Air Slash should always be used before your feet are just slightly above the land you intend to land on. Any time before then will produce the same distance/everything.

Finally, here's the distance if you only use 1 strike of advancing air slash:

^These two different pictures are again, one used when high up and one used when lower to show that the air speed is the same. Unlike both hits of AAS, just one hit of AAS should not matter at all when you use it, as long as you're close enough to the ledge to make it to it. Use it when you like. Unlike normal air slash, you don't need to save it til the last minute for best distance.

Speaking of normal Air Slash, here's the maximum results for that:

Also, here's the lowest platform in which AAS can recover by running off the side, drifting, and using the up B. For AAS, this distance is largest when Up B is used ASAP.
https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzS_mmqkoK0rsLj

Now... here's the lowest platform from which normal AS can do the same thing.
https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzS_mpP0QDpo8ED

In both instances, AAS has better recovery. The only situation I'd imagine normal AS is actually better is when directly below the stage.

So that's my in depth analysis of the recovery.
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With AAS, the improved air speed of free fall also helps when using AS to attack opponents off the stage and drift back to the platform. For certain combos which end with air slash, Shulk cannot make it back to the stage. However, with AAS, they can actually make it back to the stage depending on how high they are in relationship to the stage when using it.

Furthermore, unlike normal Air Slash, when AAS is used along the lip of the stage, the second strike snaps you instantly to the stage. This makes it safer in respects.

As Masonomace showed, AAS has great distance.

AAS can also hit light characters like Jigs, which normal AS cannot usually hit.

AAS seems worse at hitting already airborne opponents when they are at the top of the first strike's arc, as the second strike goes too low to hit them then.

So... I'm really liking AAS now.

edit: Fixed confusing typos
edit2: Fixed confusing wordings (I kind of typed that out poorly)

 

[Berserker.]

I find it sad how I try to follow my own guide on how to use buster when using hyper buster but most of the tricks and strategies don't work ;_;

At least the KO range of hyper smash is ridiculous (56-76%) and hyper buster deals a lot of damage in one hit anyway. I usually just go for the grab in hyper buster (I think hyper buster b-throw deals 20% or 21% damage). Hyper buster f-tilt and f-smash are unsafe on hit but I don't know when they start becoming safe

 

[Masonomace]

I find it sad how I try to follow my own guide on how to use buster when using hyper buster but most of the tricks and strategies don't work ;_;

At least the KO range of hyper smash is ridiculous (56-76%) and hyper buster deals a lot of damage in one hit anyway. I usually just go for the grab in hyper buster (I think hyper buster b-throw deals 20% or 21% damage). Hyper buster f-tilt and f-smash are unsafe on hit but I don't know when they start becoming safe

Hyper Buster unfortunately has too little knockback, even for the most lightest of weights (Jigglypuff Rest punishing. . .). We'd have to use the moves with the most knockback & the most safety to combo, which ironically can come down to, "what's the best move to use for HBuster?". This is objectively D-smash, especially at close range near the ledge when Shulk has stage control. Whether you use D-smash to break their shield or strong shield poke, it'll do.

Now if you thought about actual combos, I did a quick test of HBuster Shulk & Mario on FD in Training Mode, & Shulk can D-throw > Jab combo Mario from 0 – 10%, & this combo deals 32% on the Total Damage meter.

B-throw & D-throw are our follow-up slash combo throws for sure, & tilts are still our friends. Air Slash & other moves however are not.

 

[Plain Yogurt]

Oh how I wish AAS could ledge cancel. I've tried it so many times to make sure I just didn't have the spacing wrong, but the best I get is Shulk falling in helpless with the fast momentum from the forward dash. Which is still cool cause I get to the ground faster, but whatever. I really like AAS, though I do have to fight the urge to use the second slash when recovering vertically.

I'm personally not big on either of the Monado customs. Decisive is too committal for my taste and I have reservations about Hyper. I haven't really used it, but I feel in a competitive setting getting only 6 seconds of Buster or Smash is just asking for Shulk to get lamed out till it deactivates. Vanilla Shulk's parameters aren't exactly the most mobile, though thinking now in an edgeguard situation Hyper Smash is more than feasible. I dunno. I just feel the standard version has the best sweet spot of art length and ability to cancel. Maybe I'll test out a hyper set at Hypest tomorrow.

I feel like Back Slash Leap could use some love for being a little quicker than standard and being able to jump through platforms from below. Still a lot of reading involved, but that's Back Slash in a nutshell anyways. I'm a fan.

 

[Berserker.]

According to frame data, Shulk's BSL comes out faster so yeah, there's some incentive to using it

BSC is useful for specific match ups. Otherwise, I'd go for the back slash

I just KO'd Sheik from her starting position with hyper smash power vision at 46%. Countered her F-AIR. That's nuts.

I think decisive arts is also a good option. You can either go all out decisive speed... or use decisive buster+speed. Take advantage of buster's additional damage (and additional safety) and kill with speed if you rack up enough damage. Didn't rack up enough damage and buster ended? Speed can handle that then use jump to land the kill (or Smash). What if you racked up enough damage with buster? KO with speed instead.

I'm going to try messing with advancing air slash

 

[Berserker.]

Thread's been locked. Going to make a new one to make things organized. We should discuss customs one by one per week or 2 so yeah. Lockity-lock