Shrine Maiden of Paradise ~ Reimu Hakurei (Touhou Project)

[perfectchaos83]

There is something that I have seen brought up and I am also curious of in regard to the music leak, and that is the fact that Smash has typically not gotten the help of doujin creators for music remixes. As someone unfamiliar to this sort of thing, why do you guys think this would be the case for Touhou, and to such an extreme degree?

It's definitely a part of Touhou's identity. Just to provide an example:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYWJTcV_8ceDND5q4AJHiVQ

It's really not an exaggeration to say that there are hundreds of thousands of Touhou remixes out there created by Doujin circles. This is Sakurai, He's always been one to try and stay true to representing a series.

But would Nintendo trust news of their secret dlc fighter to several groups of amateurs? idk, it's worth considering.

This is the pressing matter and the situation we're in right now is a good example of that. However, I think it should be mentioned that I don't even think Grant Kirkhope knew for sure Banjo was in Smash, it's just something he deduced via context. The same can be said for this. The guy did say that he wasn't sure if Reimu was playable in Smash, but the amount of content leads on to believe that to be the case.

 

[Deleted member]

This is the pressing matter and the situation we're in right now is a good example of that. However, I think it should be mentioned that I don't even think Grant Kirkhope knew for sure Banjo was in Smash, it's just something he deduced via context. The same can be said for this. The guy did say that he wasn't sure if Reimu was playable in Smash, but the amount of content leads on to believe that to be the case

I just hope that said group of amateurs kinda knew exactly what they were doing, since they kinda know speculation is high around these times.

 

[perfectchaos83]

The Reimu for Smash twitter posted this and I couldn't agree more. Anyone who's never seen Touhou posted around before, this is why

What I meant by this is that we're usually in our own bubble and don't try and shove our stuff down people's throats. But when our hobby is mentioned, we pop off hard.

— ⛩️Reimu For Smash⛩️ (@ReimuForSmash) October 21, 2019

 

[Deleted member]

The Reimu for Smash twitter posted this and I couldn't agree more. Anyone who's never seen Touhou posted around before, this is why

What I meant by this is that we're usually in our own bubble and don't try and shove our stuff down people's throats. But when our hobby is mentioned, we pop off hard.

— ⛩️Reimu For Smash⛩️ (@ReimuForSmash) October 21, 2019

Hmmm...

 

[perfectchaos83]

Just to jump back to the music for a second and how important Doujin music is to Touhou, there's currently a torrent called "Touhou Lossless Music Collection" that is currently at 1.7 Terabytes of music. Uncompressed, your average song is going to be about 50MB. So yes, It's a very, very massive amount of songs that Doujin circles create for Touhou.

 

[TheKnight]

The Reimu for Smash twitter posted this and I couldn't agree more. Anyone who's never seen Touhou posted around before, this is why

What I meant by this is that we're usually in our own bubble and don't try and shove our stuff down people's throats. But when our hobby is mentioned, we pop off hard.

— ⛩️Reimu For Smash⛩️ (@ReimuForSmash) October 21, 2019

This is extremely accurate. Also, I've just caught up on this whole leak situation and may have hyped myself up a little too much. Reimu in Smash would be an absolute dream come true!

 

[Thatchner]

The Reimu for Smash twitter posted this and I couldn't agree more. Anyone who's never seen Touhou posted around before, this is why

What I meant by this is that we're usually in our own bubble and don't try and shove our stuff down people's throats. But when our hobby is mentioned, we pop off hard.

— ⛩️Reimu For Smash⛩️ (@ReimuForSmash) October 21, 2019

As a Touhou fan, this is exactly how I'm feeling about this too. I've been a fan of the series ever since I got into the music around ten years back, but it wasn't a series that I would talk about so much with friends. Not out of shame or anything, it just never got brought up. However, whenever it did get brought up, I could talk about it for a long while.

So seeing all of this discussion about Reimu potentially having an ACTUAL shot at getting in Smash, one of my favorite video game series' of all time, is blowing my mind.

 

[KarneraMythos]

I really don't have much to offer at the moment, but I'd be a big fat liar if I said these series of events didn't ignite the brightest ray of hope within. So much has already been covered in this thread that I feel so behind. I've read up on everything, I'm thankful for the slow and steady growth of support, and yet I can't help but feel like this could all end up being nothing at the very end, and I don't want that at all. Throughout speculation for Ultimate, I've been having a range of three emotions: Anxiety, Indifference, and cautious optimism. I'm the third one right now:

The one thing that can make or break this cycle is if Vergeben just outright says "She isn't happening. Everyone go home." which I can totally expect out of him if he even has an inkling of knowledge as to what is going on with DLC past Terry Bogard. You guys have no idea how much I've been humoring the thought of a playable Marisa and Sakuya lately as extras, just given their weirdly absent selection of notable music themes, but until I know for certain that Reimu is actually, absolutely, and uncontestedly IN as a full-fledged fighter, I am on the fence...

 

[perfectchaos83]

I really don't have much to offer at the moment, but I'd be a big fat liar if I said these series of events didn't ignite the brightest ray of hope within. So much has already been covered in this thread that I feel so behind. I've read up on everything, I'm thankful for the slow and steady growth of support, and yet I can't help but feel like this could all end up being nothing at the very end, and I don't want that at all. Throughout speculation for Ultimate, I only have a range of three emotions: Anxiety, Indifference, and cautious optimism. I'm the third one right now:
View attachment 242900
The one thing that can make or break this cycle is if Vergeben just outright says "She isn't happening. Everyone go home." which I can totally expect out of him if he even has an inkling of knowledge as to what is going on with DLC past Terry Bogard. You guys have no idea how much I've been humoring the thought of a playable Marisa and Sakuya lately as extras, just given their weirdly absent selection of notable music themes, but until I know for certain that Reimu is actually, absolutely, and uncontestedly IN as a full-fledged fighter, I am on the fence...

Good. Never let rumors sway you. I've had to calm myself down a few times over the past 24ish hours and not let my confirmation bias get the better of me. FP5, IMO, is still anyone's game.

 

[Deleted member]

Good. Never let rumors sway you. I've had to calm myself down a few times over the past 24ish hours and not let my confirmation bias get the better of me. FP5, IMO, is still anyone's game.

At the very end, all of this is still under speculation. So, till then, this must be kept in check in case Verg proclaims the Word or we actually get surprised by Nintendo. We must not jump to conclusions or else, our hopes will be let down.

Patience is a virtue. Slow and steady wins the race.

 

[PurpleXCompleX]

In regards to the "AoCF leak" circulating around now. The image used was posted to Twitter by the lead dev of Twilight Frontier last year in November

手書き部のテキスト変換が簡単だったり、赤枠の自作した画像をページにして書類作れたり（ページ間またいで描けるのがありがたい）　キーボード使わない環境で書くの助かりますわこれ pic.twitter.com/U1EVCR5mUX

— 海原海豚 (@unabara) November 14, 2018

 

[Deleted member]

Interesting, I suppose.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

In regards to the "AoCF leak" circulating around now. The image used was posted to Twitter by the lead dev of Twilight Frontier last year in November

手書き部のテキスト変換が簡単だったり、赤枠の自作した画像をページにして書類作れたり（ページ間またいで描けるのがありがたい）　キーボード使わない環境で書くの助かりますわこれ pic.twitter.com/U1EVCR5mUX

— 海原海豚 (@unabara) November 14, 2018

Darn that's too bad, this means the AoCF "leaker" lied about the design sketches being a leak. This means he loses all credibility in my eyes. The only thing he has left, is that he "leaked" there would be a AoCF port, but it happened 1 day after a PS4 port was announced. Anyone could have predicted a Switch port at that point.

I'm still hopeful for Reimu, but you know what they say I guess. Hype responsibly XD

 

[Deleted member]

Darn that's too bad, this means the AoCF "leaker" lied about the design sketches being a leak. This means he loses all credibility in my eyes. The only thing he has left, is that he "leaked" there would be a AoCF port, but it happened 1 day after a PS4 port was announced. Anyone could have predicted a Switch port at that point.

I'm still hopeful for Reimu, but you know what they say I guess. Hype responsibly XD

That's just one evidence taken down, but it's still not enough to hurt the credibility of the doujin leak. Best to stay alert. Hype responsibly.

 

[zferolie]

In regards to the "AoCF leak" circulating around now. The image used was posted to Twitter by the lead dev of Twilight Frontier last year in November

手書き部のテキスト変換が簡単だったり、赤枠の自作した画像をページにして書類作れたり（ページ間またいで描けるのがありがたい）　キーボード使わない環境で書くの助かりますわこれ pic.twitter.com/U1EVCR5mUX

— 海原海豚 (@unabara) November 14, 2018

Still think there are plenty of evidence for her. The guy still has leaked about the existence of the game, as well as ports. I dont think that tweet there mentions 17.5 at all, the leaker just added this image to his post leaking 17.5.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

That's just one evidence taken down, but it's still not enough to hurt the credibility of the doujin leak. Best to stay alert. Hype responsibly.

Even if you were to believe that he actually leaked the Switch port of AoCF (and didn't just make a very reasonable guess), it still means that he literally lied about being a leaker. This entirely debunks his credibility. If he lied about leaking something once, there's little to no reason to trust him any more than any of the hundred random "leaks" out there. A Switch port for AoCF makes a ton of sense, if you are porting the game to PS4 it already means that you likely have the means to make a Switch port too. It would be inefficient to develop a port only for PS4, and not spend a little more to also release it on Switch where you could get thousands and thousands more sales.

 

[Deleted member]

Even if you were to believe that he actually leaked the Switch port of AoCF (and didn't just make a very reasonable guess), it still means that he literally lied about being a leaker. This entirely debunks his credibility.

Then that is one source down.

Let's just wait until the future.

 

[TheTuninator]

Yup, that's definitely a huge strike against him, since anyone could have guessed a Switch port. Good to know! I'm surprised nobody on 5ch caught that he'd just reposted the image, as presumably they'd be much more engaged with Japanese Twitter than we are.

 

[zferolie]

Again though, he still leaked 17.5 right? That original post never once mentioned 17.5, it was just going on about design and stuff. At least from what i could tell.

Again though, he still leaked 17.5 right? That original post never once mentioned 17.5, it was just going on about design and stuff. At least from what i could tell.

Even if you were to believe that he actually leaked the Switch port of AoCF (and didn't just make a very reasonable guess), it still means that he literally lied about being a leaker. This entirely debunks his credibility. If he lied about leaking something once, there's little to no reason to trust him any more than any of the hundred random "leaks" out there. A Switch port for AoCF makes a ton of sense, if you are porting the game to PS4 it already means that you likely have the means to make a Switch port too. It would be inefficient to develop a port only for PS4, and not spend a little more to also release it on Switch where you could get thousands and thousands more sales.

There havent been many offical touhou switch ports yet. So while we can say it makes sense at the time it was rare. Touhou only had fan games coming to switch no official games at the time of leaking, or only just 1.

 

[TheTuninator]

If the image was posted by a Tasofro dev, there's nothing it could have been but 17.5.

 

[zferolie]

If the image was posted by a Tasofro dev, there's nothing it could have been but 17.5.

It was confirmed at the time that they were working on the next touhou? Sorry while i am a big touhou fan i havent followed all the little details.

 

[Sysreq]

Womp womp. Damn, that's too bad.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Yeah it was a good find by him, if you look at Tasofro's tweet with the Reimu design sketch, it had 0 likes. I was the first one to like it. So it was prime material to crop it, post it again months later, and hope that no one saw the original to try to deceive us.

I'm a little confused by the last few comments, but to clarify, he said there would be a TH 15.5 AoCF switch port 1 day after the ps4 port was announced.

Tasofro sharing the Reimu design sketch was just him sharing a template you could use for designing stuff.

Disclaimer: I'm still super hype for Reimu. She has a fair chance. I do think we're getting 3 FP with 5 characters each, it just seems obvious to me. I predicted Lucina over Chrom in Smash 4, and was super hopeful for Ridley despite him not getting in until Ultimate.

Also look at my E3 predictions for Ultimate. Not bad eh? XD

I would be very surprised if we don't get EITHER Arle or Reimu. (And very very very sad )

 

[BZL8]

Yep. That’s going as a credibility-killing blow in my book.

 

[zferolie]

Yeah it was a good find by him, if you look at Tasofro's tweet with the Reimu design sketch, it had 0 likes. I was the first one to like it. So it was prime material to crop it, post it again months later, and hope that no one saw the original to try to deceive us.

I'm a little confused by the last few comments, but to clarify, he said there would be a TH 15.5 AoCF switch port 1 day after the ps4 port was announced.

Tasofro sharing the Reimu design sketch was just him sharing a template you could use for designing stuff.

Disclaimer: I'm still super hype for Reimu. She has a fair chance. I do think we're getting 3 FP with 5 characters each, it just seems obvious to me. I predicted Lucina over Chrom in Smash 4, and was super hopeful for Ridley despite him not getting in until Ultimate.

Also look at my E3 predictions for Ultimate. Not bad eh? XD

I would be very surprised if we don't get EITHER Arle or Reimu. (And very very very sad )

Ok so it hurts it, but he still had some stuff right. This was always just a rumor but still, i dont think its dead yet. We still have a named doujin circle supposedly working on remixes, and has any doujin circles come out and say this is false yet?

Im still at 50% true or false, but Reimu makes sense to appear in smash. I am pushing for Shantae but Reimu i can see being the first indie/doujin character into smash, for longer history, and shes japanese.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Ok so it hurts it, but he still had some stuff right. This was always just a rumor but still, i dont think its dead yet. We still have a named doujin circle supposedly working on remixes, and has any doujin circles come out and say this is false yet?

Im still at 50% true or false, but Reimu makes sense to appear in smash. I am pushing for Shantae but Reimu i can see being the first indie/doujin character into smash, for longer history, and shes japanese.

Well, remember that any circle claiming the leak is false doesn't mean anything, because obviously they are not going to say it's real, and it's in their best interest to lie about it if they're under NDA to make us think it's not happening.

The only thing he had right is the Switch port, which is a really easy prediction once you know a dev is porting it to PS4 as well. (Why target a lesser market, when Switch is far superior? And with the toolkits it's likely they can port it to both systems without additional work).

The named doujin circle is by the same guy who lied about leaking the design drawings. So I'm thinking he's lying again.

 

[EarlTamm]

Well, remember that any circle claiming the leak is false doesn't mean anything, because obviously they are not going to say it's real, and it's in their best interest to lie about it if they're under NDA to make us think it's not happening.

The only thing he had right is the Switch port, which is a really easy prediction once you know a dev is porting it to PS4 as well. (Why target a lesser market, when Switch is far superior? And with the toolkits it's likely they can port it to both systems without additional work).

The named doujin circle is by the same guy who lied about leaking the design drawings. So I'm thinking he's lying again.

I am really confused on who is who now. So the guy who leaked the music is not so reputable?

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

I am really confused on who is who now. So the guy who leaked the music is not so reputable?

Edit: So apparently there has been misinformation and the guy who claimed the Reimu design sketches were a leak of an upcoming Touhou game, is not the same one who made the doujin music circle leak. Maybe that was just people assuming it was the same. (Or did the JP 5chan post actually say that he was the same guy who "leaked" the Reimu design sketch?)

So, doujin music leak might still stand, but it would also mean the person leaking it doesn't have any other credibility to add to it. Not as bad as being totally debunked though! Hype.


Yeah. There was a 4chan post saying that he heard doujin circles were remixing music for Smash. There is nothing backing this up other than it seeming to fit with what we heard from the AoCF leaker.

The AoCF leaker predicted the Switch port a day after the PS4 port was announced, then he posted an old image that Tasofro shared for game design drafting, and he claimed it was a leak for an upcoming game. Supposedly the same AoCF leaker (it's difficult to verify exactly but supposedly he had a unique code on 5chan so it's likely the same guy, but could still be a poser) then shared the doujin music leak, where he shared a bunch of tracks that are to be remixed and also name dropped a circle.

So
1) Switch port prediction was correct
2) Leaked image of upcoming Tasofro game was a lie
3) His (or a poser's) leak of the doujin circles participating can't really be proven right or wrong, but he lied about #2

 

[EarlTamm]

Yeah. There was a 4chan post saying that he heard doujin circles were remixing music for Smash. There is nothing backing this up other than it seeming to fit with what we heard from the AoCF leaker.

The AoCF leaker predicted the Switch port a day after the PS4 port was announced, then he posted an old image that Tasofro shared for game design drafting, and he claimed it was a leak for an upcoming game. Supposedly the same AoCF leaker (it's difficult to verify exactly but supposedly he had a unique code on 5chan so it's likely the same guy, but could still be a poser) then shared the doujin music leak, where he shared a bunch of tracks that are to be remixed and also name dropped a circle.

So
1) Switch port prediction was correct
2) Leaked image of upcoming Tasofro game was a lie
3) His (or a poser's) leak of the doujin circles participating can't really be proven right or wrong, but he lied about #2

Wasn't the 4chan post long before April though, as the person who tweeted out this news said these rumors started up around then. I will take your word for it that it's the same guy(I don't know how this sort of thing can be figured out), but it seems like most people here didn't react as if that was the case, so I am just a bit confused.

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

Technically, he didn't lie about the image.
What he said when he uploaded the image in August was "doujin community is very loose about keeping secrets", then he deleted the image immediately because he wasn't sure if he uploading that image is a right thing.
Then the music list leak happened, someone asked him if that image was for the Touhou 17.5, then he answered "it's from Twilight Frontier so may be is so".
We can't tell if he cropped that image or not, but still hurts his credibility a lot.

 

[Sc_Ev0lution]

Technically, he didn't lie about the image.
What he said when he uploaded the image in August was "doujin community is very loose about keeping secrets", then he deleted the image immediately because he wasn't sure if he uploading that image is a right thing.
Then the music list leak happened, someone asked him if that image was for the Touhou 17.5, then he answered "it's from Twilight Frontier so may be is so".
We can't tell if he cropped that image or not, but still hurts his credibility a lot.

Idk if you're already doing this, but could you repeat this in the Newcomer Speculation thread?

 

[Exiliify]

Technically, he didn't lie about the image.
What he said when he uploaded the image in August was "doujin community is very loose about keeping secrets", then he deleted the image immediately because he wasn't sure if he uploading that image is a right thing.
Then the music list leak happened, someone asked him if that image was for the Touhou 17.5, then he answered "it's from Twilight Frontier so may be is so".
We can't tell if he cropped that image or not, but still hurts his credibility a lot.

I don’t think his credibility is damaged yet. It appears this wouldn’t affect anything regarding Reimu and smash.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Yeah I don't think anyone has 100% confirmation if it is the same guy or not.

In my mind, the initial 4chan rumor of the doujin music, is definitely a different guy than the guy(s) on 5chan. I wouldn't expect them to be fluent in both English and JP and it makes no sense why they would post in one board over the other months later.

Also, thanks for clarifying Ayumi!


So if I'm understanding right. It is possible that he found the image, and shared it thinking it was evidence supporting his claim that doujin circles are not that secretive about things. And that it isn't necessarily that he found an old tweet that not many saw, and posted a crop of the image claiming it to be a leak from a future Touhou title? That isn't as bad as what I thought before (that he lied), though I agree it still hurts his credibility a lot. I do still suspect that he posted it and then he took it down to bait people into think it was a leak from a future title, since he wanted to make the claim that doujin circles aren't that secretive. But it is possible he just did it on mistake. I haven't read the original JP threads so IDK.

 

[zferolie]

Ok so the music doujin leak is different from the 17.5 leak. And they were saying these whispers have been floating around the doujin scene for awhile anyway right?. At least thats what i have been hearing. Too bad its hard to hear stuff from the doujin community here.

Has anyone here tried to see or hear what the rumor/inside word is in the touhou community in japan?

 

[Hinata]

大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズかよってくらい有名な音楽サークルさん達が一堂に会してるこの商業企画に関われたの本当に嬉しいし、こんな機会今後もう二度とないと断言できるッ(ｼｺﾙｽｷｰ)

— りひと🔰 (@re_rihito) October 21, 2019

"I'm really happy that I was involved in this commercial project where so many famous music circles are coming together, and I can assure you that I will never have such an opportunity again in the future"

-quote from someone who works in doujin circles involved with Touhou

edit: Apparently my translation is even underselling this; the tweet straight up mentions Smash Bros.

 

[Gentlepanda]

大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズかよってくらい有名な音楽サークルさん達が一堂に会してるこの商業企画に関われたの本当に嬉しいし、こんな機会今後もう二度とないと断言できるッ(ｼｺﾙｽｷｰ)

— りひと🔰 (@re_rihito) October 21, 2019

"I'm really happy that I was involved in this commercial project where so many famous music circles are coming together, and I can assure you that I will never have such an opportunity again in the future"

-quote from someone who works in doujin circles involved with Touhou

my gut instinct is that they're taking the piss/poking fun at the leak, given how brazen it is to literally just namedrop smash

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

Idk if you're already doing this, but could you repeat this in the Newcomer Speculation thread?

You can quote me there.

Ok so the music doujin leak is different from the 17.5 leak. And they were saying these whispers have been floating around the doujin scene for awhile anyway right?. At least thats what i have been hearing. Too bad its hard to hear stuff from the doujin community here.

Has anyone here tried to see or hear what the rumor/inside word is in the touhou community in japan?

Not really much talked about it in Touhou fandom from what I see.
As ReimuForSmash twitter stated, Smash bubble and Touhou bubble aren't overlapping. Plus, Touhou fan community and Touhou doujin circle community are completely different thing as well.
Even if the leaks are true and there are rumors of smash really circulating around in the community, I can't really find a way to sneak in and peek their conversations. I don't know where to look for to begin with. They may be aren't that secretive, but that doesn't mean they are completely open to any random viewers online.
The leaker said before that he is doing his own doujin works so that's the story he has to backup where he gets all that info.

 

[KarneraMythos]

my gut instinct is that they're taking the piss/poking fun at the leak, given how brazen it is to literally just namedrop smash

The whole tweet is sarcasm you can hear, basically.

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズかよってくらい有名な音楽サークルさん達が一堂に会してるこの商業企画に関われたの本当に嬉しいし、こんな機会今後もう二度とないと断言できるッ(ｼｺﾙｽｷｰ)

— りひと🔰 (@re_rihito) October 21, 2019

"I'm really happy that I was involved in this commercial project where so many famous music circles are coming together, and I can assure you that I will never have such an opportunity again in the future"

-quote from someone who works in doujin circles involved with Touhou

edit: Apparently my translation is even underselling this; the tweet straight up mentions Smash Bros.

He is talking about Cannonball. He's just saying, "looking at all the names of doujin music circles involved, it's like Smash Bros." and expressing his happiness.

 

[Superiorstar]

so the leak got deconfirmed I heard, very unfortunate for ya'll, still though, I'll support this character.