Shrine Maiden of Paradise ~ Reimu Hakurei (Touhou Project)

[Commander_Alph]

"Well actually Reimu is more popular than him because Japan is bigger than France, UK, Germany, and the US combined and western reps in ma Japanese game is bad" pic.twitter.com/0zrfOILwR0

— Raymanic- (@RaymanicRM) May 2, 2021

Found this on the RaymanforSmash tweet, I hate that they always disregarding Touhou sheer popularity alone on its home country (and internet community) while calling us "delusional" for thinking like that while still have the time to gloat over. I swear if there's a way to scale the numbers on all things Touhou (merchandise, CDs, print works and maybe fanworks) it will blew their mind. I don't hate Rayman but their supporter is sometimes full of themselves

 

[Rie Sonomura]

"Well actually Reimu is more popular than him because Japan is bigger than France, UK, Germany, and the US combined and western reps in ma Japanese game is bad" pic.twitter.com/0zrfOILwR0

— Raymanic- (@RaymanicRM) May 2, 2021

Found this on the RaymanforSmash tweet, I hate that they always disregarding Touhou sheer popularity alone on its home country (and internet community) while calling us "delusional" for thinking like that while still have the time to gloat over. I swear if there's a way to scale the numbers on all things Touhou (merchandise, CDs, print works and maybe fanworks) it will blew their mind.

Fr tho, taking potshots at anyone like that just ain’t a good look for a “for Smash” support account

whatever happened to respecting one another?

 

[Commander_Alph]

Fr tho, taking potshots at anyone like that just ain’t a good look for a “for Smash” support account

whatever happened to respecting one another?

For real, at least the Indie for Smash account like Shantae and Shovel Knight is still an ally with Reimu. In all honesty I hate that Touhou has been treated as a punching bag once it gets popular around the Smash circle. I have to give my hats to Terry for telling all the doofus that not anything has to be "Europe and North America only!"

 

[TheTuninator]

"X for Smash" accounts Twitter beef has to be one of the silliest things I've seen in a while, lol.

 

[Commander_Alph]

I think they also mentioned that it's all from the "Newcomer Speculation" thread which is a big fat lie considering there's only one user than I know who treat Touhou more than it should have been and there's the "I express my disagreement on why this is the worst addition in front of everyone and you can't tell me this is wrong because it's my opinion" guy (not pointing any names but you know who). I swear Twitter user always think they are the best community on the internet.

 

[SharkLord]

"Well actually Reimu is more popular than him because Japan is bigger than France, UK, Germany, and the US combined and western reps in ma Japanese game is bad" pic.twitter.com/0zrfOILwR0

— Raymanic- (@RaymanicRM) May 2, 2021

Found this on the RaymanforSmash tweet, I hate that they always disregarding Touhou sheer popularity alone on its home country (and internet community) while calling us "delusional" for thinking like that while still have the time to gloat over. I swear if there's a way to scale the numbers on all things Touhou (merchandise, CDs, print works and maybe fanworks) it will blew their mind. I don't hate Rayman but their supporter is sometimes full of themselves

Basically, the standard Twitter stuff you see where they put people down to pump themselves up.

Dunno what I expected, honestly. Maybe higher standards because they're running a big account like this? It's ultimately still Twitter in the end, I suppose.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

You'd think people would have gotten this "Japanese popularity = bad" or the idea of Regionally popular characters being bad out of their head a long time ago but I guess it's something that's likely gonna stick to Smash like their intense hatred for Fire Emblem and whatnot.

But it's Twitter here so don't be surprised people act like this.

 

[GolisoPower]

Yeah, it's best to just ignore what the toxic Twitter users have to say. They just stick to being angry at things (Like, it'd take a miracle for them to just let go of Fire Emblem already), shut down any candidates regardless of arguments (They don't care if your character is popular in Japan, has close ties to Nintendo or is from a game integral to the industry, etc., apparently) and just blatantly ignore anything that objectively shuts down their arguments (Spirits Deconfirm -> Min Min & Pyra/Mythra, No Western Third Parties -> Banjo & Steve, Only one non-Echo character per third party franchise -> Sephiroth).

Whatever sort of mental exercises they go through to not just throw in the towel at all is beyond my knowledge, but in a sense it's kind of impressive that they just don't break even after being proven wrong several times.

Anyways, just don't pay them any mind and leave them to be screaming into the abyss if Reimu does get confirmed.

 

[zriL]

I wouldn't have bet on it but, Touhou is actually higher than Rayman on google trend, all countries considered. Touhou wins in NA and South East Asia and Rayman wins the rest (Europe and SA mostly). So that quote wasn't even that bold.

 

[SharkLord]

I wouldn't have bet on it but, Touhou is actually higher than Rayman on google trend, all countries considered. Touhou wins in NA and South East Asia and Rayman wins the rest. So that quote wasn't even that bold.

Really, now? I would've guessed it's the other way around; Touhou bigger in Japan and Rayman bigger in America.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Rayman, imo, has always been in a weird place. I think it's a bit like Megaman in the effect that it's a series that core gamers all know about but don't actually buy. I do think that the overall 'iconicness' of Rayman is overstated.

 

[SharkLord]

Rayman, imo, has always been in a weird place. I think it's a bit like Megaman in the effect that it's a series that core gamers all know about but don't actually buy. I do think that the overall 'iconicness' of Rayman is overstated.

To be fair, "iconicness" is an extremely variable and subjective measurement that's hard to gauge. I think in general, it's best to just leave the term at the door and try to avoid bringing it up in debates.

 

[Doremy's smug grin]

Oh, what a shame. I was trying to see what the people who replied to them had to say about it, but the tweet wouldn't load. Either my internet router is reeeaaally picking favorites, or they were just so embarrassed with what they had to say that they wiped it off the face of Twitter (untill someone decides to dig it up, anyway). Will anyone be so kind as to help out a fellow "delusional" Touhou peasant and tell me what the replies said before it got deleted?

EDIT: Oh, nevermind, it really was my router. I guess it was trying to shield me innocence from something as cruel and unusual as this. (hint: this is sarcasm)

 

[perfectchaos83]

To be fair, "iconicness" is an extremely variable and subjective measurement that's hard to gauge. I think in general, it's best to just leave the term at the door and try to avoid bringing it up in debates.

oh, I fully agree. It's why I tend to put the term in quotations. I think Smash already has most of what can really be considered gaming icons (Mario, Sonic, Pikachu, DK, Link, Pac-Man, etc). In this instance, I just didn't know what else to substitute it with.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

Smash already has a ton of the biggest names for gaming with only a small handful of exceptions. Like you can contribute Crash/Spyro/Hayabusa as gaming icons. Maybe Doom Guy. I just can't think of many more than that.

And on this topic I can consider Reimu an icon for the Indie scene. Those into the Japanese scene for gaming, Indie games, or general Shmups have probably played Touhou, or at least heard or seen it in general passing. And regardless of what people think, Touhou has contributed to the industry in surprising ways.

 

[GolisoPower]

Smash already has a ton of the biggest names for gaming with only a small handful of exceptions. Like you can contribute Crash/Spyro/Hayabusa as gaming icons. Maybe Doom Guy. I just can't think of many more than that.

And on this topic I can consider Reimu an icon for the Indie scene. Those into the Japanese scene for gaming, Indie games, or general Shmups have probably played Touhou, or at least heard or seen it in general passing. And regardless of what people think, Touhou has contributed to the industry in surprising ways.

Oh, absolutely. Touhou's an old franchise that's wormed its way into the four corners of the media without the mainstream even knowing, and it's no wonder because its influences are just about EVERYWHERE. Hell, the popularity of Touhou in Japan puts it up there with the likes of Dragon Quest in terms of how sensational it is. Talk to a Japanese gamer and ask them of the first thing they think of when they hear the term "indie game", and more likely than not they'll say Touhou. Reimu's most certainly an old-age indie icon, with Steve (technically) being the new-age indie icon, and it's well-deserved, too.

 

[Doremy's smug grin]

Rayman, imo, has always been in a weird place. I think it's a bit like Megaman in the effect that it's a series that core gamers all know about but don't actually buy. I do think that the overall 'iconicness' of Rayman is overstated.

I wonder, do you think that people tend to overstate the iconicness of Reimu? I'm sure you seen people bring up how she is also a video game icon, albeit in different ways. When I try and make my arguments about how she is a video game "icon", I bring up how she's contributed to the STG/Bullet Hell genre, Indie gaming, and the Doujin scene. In that;

1. For the STG/Bullet Hell genre, Touhou has added quite a bit of elements that have never been seen ,or at the very least, popularized before, such as having the characters be cute girls instead of military ships, among other things. Of course, the music is what most people remember the official series for, and, to me, it was quite distinct from music in other games in the genre.
2. The points for indie gaming and Doujin are kind of put in the same spot for me. I credited ZUN's lax views on copyright and derivative works as being responsible for helping the Doujin scene flourish

Do you think that these are very plausible, or is it all a bit of a stretch? Because I sure as hell believe that she definitely has a place in a crossover game that celebrates important figures in gaming, so don't take this as me saying I'm not.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

Oh, absolutely. Touhou's an old franchise that's wormed its way into the four corners of the media without the mainstream even knowing, and it's no wonder because its influences are just about EVERYWHERE. Hell, the popularity of Touhou in Japan puts it up there with the likes of Dragon Quest in terms of how sensational it is. Talk to a Japanese gamer and ask them of the first thing they think of when they hear the term "indie game", and more likely than not they'll say Touhou. Reimu's most certainly an old-age indie icon, with Steve (technically) being the new-age indie icon and it's well-deserved, too.

The mere fact Touhou as a series is technically a 90s series if you count the PC-98 games kind of shows how long lasting it has been. It influenced various future devs like Toby Fox who has clear Touhou inspiration and practiced his music making by remaking Touhou music, is a good clear ground for indie devs in general, and overall has a fandom not seen in any other game is quite an accomplishment.

And really, Reimu would be the perfect foil to Steve if she were to get in the same pass.

 

[SharkLord]

I wonder, do you think that people tend to overstate the iconicness of Reimu? I'm sure you seen people bring up how she is also a video game icon, albeit in different ways.

Yeah, trying to compare Touhou to other games it kinda weird because it's just unorthodox as a series. If we judged it by games alone, it would probably be almost completely ignored, but it's been pushed up to surprising heights by the fandom. The thing is, most series don't rely on their fandom in such a way; They're more straightforward about things, and are usually judged by sales figures rather than fanworks (And in fairness, all those fanworks are kinda hard to collect and measure in general). Almost everything in Touhou, from the remixes to the translations, are run by the fans, and so everyone has different ideas of how it all stacks up against every other game. Not to mention the question of region-centric characters; Hero's the only one in the entire DLC cycle.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

Touhou is really difficult to compare to other series in Smash solely due to how it operates. Between the games only recently being pushed in the West with AOCF getting a Switch release, ZUN basically encouraging a lot of doujin and fan content to the point it blew up in Japan to extreme levels, it being seen and referenced on the Internet and even shows like Craig of the Creek(If people remember that reference) as well as influenced notable devs, and the like, it is in a weird but unique position.

But that uniqueness for Touhou IMO warrants it to be noticed in Smash. Like even if people say it is a "Literal Who" then they haven't realized how some of the most viral videos like Bad Apple or those bizarre Ronald Mcdonald/UN Owen Was Her videos and whatnot are Touhou related they probably seen someone with at least a Cirno or Flandre avatar.

So even if someone say they never heard of Touhou, they probably indirectly felt its presence somewhere.

 

[Commander_Alph]

Rayman, in my opinion don't really deserve to be called "icon" it's just one out of a dozen platformer game like Klonoa, I know this sounds harsh but Rayman games barely made a last impression in gaming or media in general moreso than Far Cry and Assassin's Creed other than those who have play it as little kiddies but other than Rayman Raving Rabbids which shows that he can easily be overthrown with another character by the company no problem and Rayman Legends to which probably is the time where people finally care about the series. Other than that the series has legacy.


Also, a list things that Touhou influenced that usually ignored by being "not important":

1. The Indie/doujin community specifically in Japan. Just typing in the word Touhou on sites like Pixiv, Danbooru or even R34 you see that there's a lot of artwork made for the series which is up there with Pokemon, same goes with fangames, I mean just go to Moriya Shrine and see for yourself lol.
2. The internet. While not been noticed by the public crowd around the world it however really thriving big around the web thanks to memes, music and character. I could list the likes of Sr Pelo or even Alpharad for the matter to show some examples of overseas enjoyer of the series.
3. Toby Fox. While Earthbound mostly take everything everytime someone says which game inspired Undertale Tohou is no slouch, I think this was shown apparent with the characterization of the bosses and attack pattern, something Touhou is known for, Earthbound doesn't have this other than your ally and the main villain with Toby specifically drawing it's inspiration from the second game which low and behold got his game famous in Japan and boosting his name to be recognizable to the point that even Sakurai and Game Freak bother to knock at his doorstep.

 

[TheTuninator]

I've always felt that people substantially overrate the popularity of Touhou with regards to Smash chances, personally. My view is that Touhou is popular enough in Japan to justify inclusion, but would be getting in 100% on the backs of the JP fanbase if so. While of course we're all testament to the fact that Touhou has lots of overseas fans, she really will be a "literally who" to most NA fans (and that's fine!)

 

[SharkLord]

I've always felt that people substantially overrate the popularity of Touhou with regards to Smash chances, personally. My view is that Touhou is popular enough in Japan to justify inclusion, but would be getting in 100% on the backs of the JP fanbase if so. While of course we're all testament to the fact that Touhou has lots of overseas fans, she really will be a "literally who" to most NA fans (and that's fine!)

Yeah, Touhou would be mainly reliant on the Japanese fanbase. I think there's enough of the following in the West that it wouldn't be like too much of a roadblock, but the main draw is definitely from Japan.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

I can argue Touhous popularity for Smash is similar to Mothers here with the only difference it's a third party.

SNK and Dragon Quest also have this feeling here but Mother/Earthbound is a good 1st party comparison here.

I don't see an issue with regionally popular characters, otherwise we wouldn't have Terry, Banjo, and arguably Hero. It adds more international appeal to Smash and brings more personality to the roster.

 

[SharkLord]

I can argue Touhous popularity for Smash is similar to Mothers here with the only difference it's a third party.

SNK and Dragon Quest also have this feeling here but Mother/Earthbound is a good 1st party comparison here.

I don't see an issue with regionally popular characters, otherwise we wouldn't have Terry, Banjo, and arguably Hero. It adds more international appeal to Smash and brings more personality to the roster.

To be fair, Banjo was noted as being because of fan demand. They're kind of unique in that regard, as we haven't had any other character added in the DLC because of fan demand.

 

[Blankiturayman]

Tfw I'd love both Reimu and Rayman... Well, it's been said, but comments like those from any side are just unnecessarily argumentative. No need to put down other things just to push yourself up. Best just leave it be, I'd say.

On another note, since I finally had some free time I got around to trying out Touhou 18, going with Marisa since she usually never fails me. It's pretty fun! I like the music as usual, and the card mechanic is a really fun thing. I haven't dabbled in it fully yet but I'm already liking it a bunch.

 

[Doremy's smug grin]

On another note, since I finally had some free time I got around to trying out Touhou 18, going with Marisa since she usually never fails me.

Really? She, along with Alice, failed me quite a bit on Touhou 8, specifically on the spells that require you to divert your attention from the boss, or have the bosses change directions, causing me to timeout the spells and risk getting hit by bullets by trying to make my way underneath the boss, respectively.

 

[perfectchaos83]

I wonder, do you think that people tend to overstate the iconicness of Reimu? I'm sure you seen people bring up how she is also a video game icon, albeit in different ways. When I try and make my arguments about how she is a video game "icon", I bring up how she's contributed to the STG/Bullet Hell genre, Indie gaming, and the Doujin scene.

Depends. I've definitely seen some egregious takes on the series popularity in Japan. However, I do think it's valid to call her an icon of the doujin community and/or bullet hells. IMO, icon is a dumb term as it's used within Smash speculation. I do believe that there are various degrees of iconicness that this fanbase doesn't really like to consider, especially since it's usually viewed under a black/white mentality. I do not consider Terry to be a gaming icon, especially not on the level of Ryu, but he absolutely is a fighting game icon on the same level of Ryu.

 

[Blankiturayman]

Really? She, along with Alice, failed me quite a bit on Touhou 8, specifically on the spells that require you to divert your attention from the boss, or have the bosses change directions, causing me to timeout the spells and risk getting hit by bullets by trying to make my way underneath the boss, respectively.

Yeah, I think I've gotten used to her playstyle more over time. I'd say some characters work better for certain games though, generally, I'd say Reimu is more friendly when you're just starting out since the homing shots make it easier for you to not have to focus on where you're shooting.

 

[zriL]

Really, now? I would've guessed it's the other way around; Touhou bigger in Japan and Rayman bigger in America.

Touhou wins in Japan, but i didn't mention it because it was obvious and because google trend behave really weird for Japan.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I nabbed this from the Crash thread but:

I know this is just a small stupid teeny tiny obvious question but you know what why not we have not had anything news related so far other than just an interview which was nothing so here is this just for fun,If crash gets included would they put in the copyright list just activision or they would include toys for bob or they would include the 3 of them along with beenox?

What copyright would Reimu have? ZUN? Team Shanghai Alice? Maybe that rumored new “Hakurei Shrine” copyright?

 

[SharkLord]

I nabbed this from the Crash thread but:

What copyright would Reimu have? ZUN? Team Shanghai Alice? Maybe that rumored new “Hakurei Shrine” copyright?

Most likely Team Shanghai Alice, since it's the company in charge of the series. Kinda like how Smash credits Sora Ltd. instead of just the Sakurais.

 

[GolisoPower]

I nabbed this from the Crash thread but:

What copyright would Reimu have? ZUN? Team Shanghai Alice? Maybe that rumored new “Hakurei Shrine” copyright?

I'd say it's be a lot like Earthbound's "SHIGESATO ITOI / APE Inc." thing and be more like "ZUN / Team Shanghai Alice" or something.

 

[perfectchaos83]

I nabbed this from the Crash thread but:

What copyright would Reimu have? ZUN? Team Shanghai Alice? Maybe that rumored new “Hakurei Shrine” copyright?

It would probably just be ZUN and/or Team Shanghai Alice. From my brief bit of research, all the main Games are Copyright ZUN while all the merchandise seems to be Copyright Team Shanghai Alice.

 

[Rikarte]

If anyone here is interested in playing the games: There is a new Touhou community event called Hakurei League. It's gonna be similar to TWC but will be open for all skill levels so you don't have to be a superplayer to enter. If you're looking to get better at 2hu I recommend checking it out!

A new type of Touhou competition starting soon.
Events for all mainline Windows games
Divisions for all skill levels
High grade commentary
Monthly league tournaments
Welcome to The Hakurei League
Signups open now:https://t.co/4arGvRv01r pic.twitter.com/dgfmCKsGLE

— The Hakurei League (@HakureiLeague) May 9, 2021

 

[TheTuninator]

Really? She, along with Alice, failed me quite a bit on Touhou 8, specifically on the spells that require you to divert your attention from the boss, or have the bosses change directions, causing me to timeout the spells and risk getting hit by bullets by trying to make my way underneath the boss, respectively.

Personally, I am a simple man - I play a Touhou game, I press X to BWOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMM with Master Spark. It's always heartbreaking when Marisa doesn't have it.

 

[GolisoPower]

So revisiting the topic of the Splash screen after so long...I know I've suggested "REIMU Plays Her Hand" referencing the Spell Cards, and ran into "REIMU Responds to the Prayers" as a reference to Highly Responsive to Prayers, but now I've found a good new one: "REIMU Is Now Preparing!" Apparently, it's a reference to the "Girls are now preparing" loading screen message that's been prominent in every Touhou game. It seems just as iconic as the Dragon Quest splash screen and their referencing "A monster draws near!" message whenever combat engages. How about that?

 

[Doremy's smug grin]

Personally, I am a simple man - I play a Touhou game, I press X to BWOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMM with Master Spark. It's always heartbreaking when Marisa doesn't have it.

Oh yeah, I shoud've mentioned this earlier. I no longer resent her shottype anymore. In fact, I've actually gotten used to it. But you better believe that I abused the **** out of those bombs when I played as her for the longest time, lol!

So revisiting the topic of the Splash screen after so long...I know I've suggested "REIMU Plays Her Hand" referencing the Spell Cards, and ran into "REIMU Responds to the Prayers" as a reference to Highly Responsive to Prayers, but now I've found a good new one: "REIMU Is Now Preparing!" Apparently, it's a reference to the "Girls are now preparing" loading screen message that's been prominent in every Touhou game. It seems just as iconic as the Dragon Quest splash screen and their referencing "A monster draws near!" message whenever combat engages. How about that?

Wait a minute, wait a minute, I just came up with one! How about:
"REIMU is confused as hell because she just came here to get milk and thought that this was the grocery store or somethin idk"

 

[PurpleXCompleX]

I'm late on that one but Touhou Garakuta (a Touhou Web Magazine by Touhou Station) has been launched in English.
https://en.touhougarakuta.com/

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Is anyone else having a buttload of server issues with LostWord rn?