Shrine Maiden of Paradise ~ Reimu Hakurei (Touhou Project)

[SharkLord]

Honestly I feel like the main advantage Shantae has is being more "Casual" friendly since even casual players know her specifically and she already has a spirit in the game, meaning she has content in Smash already.

What Touhou has is a lot of variety for content and predating Shantae as the "Oldest Indie series" around. I consider Touhou a more "Hardcore" series in the sense that fewer people actually played the games compared to Shantae but it has a stronger legacy and IMO gives it stronger chances than most possible Indie reps. Shantae would be great in Smash and in an ideal world, both her and Reimu would get in the roster but unless there's more passes, it may likely be Reimu who will fill the big indie game.

And people keep saying Reimu would be good as a "Mii Costume" but no playstyle fits her unless they pull an Aerith Mii here. If we had a Mii mage character then I could see it(Sidenote I am surprised we don't have that) but unless you want things to be really wonky, a Reimu Mii Costume is unlikely.

I mean Callie never punched anyone in the face but Callie Brawler

But yeah. While having her as a Swordfighter is possible, having her as a fighter would be much preferable.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

I mean Callie never punched anyone in the face but Callie Brawler

But yeah. While having her as a Swordfighter is possible, having her as a fighter would be much preferable.

Reimu as a Swordfighter would look weird to me. It may be possible given how unorthodox some of the Mii costumes are but it'd still look weird.

I mean there's three possible timelines here. Either Touhou doesn't get content at all which is the worst timeline, Reimu gets in as a fighter which is the best timeline, or Smash Online is gonna be filled with Shrine Maiden Sans Miis.

 

[SharkLord]

Reimu as a Swordfighter would look weird to me. It may be possible given how unorthodox some of the Mii costumes are but it'd still look weird.

I mean there's three possible timelines here. Either Touhou doesn't get content at all which is the worst timeline, Reimu gets in as a fighter which is the best timeline, or Smash Online is gonna be filled with Shrine Maiden Sans Miis.

Yeah, the staff-swords look pretty odd. At the very least she has some experience using it as a melee weapon.

And yeah, let's be honest; The main reason anyone cares about the Miis is the ability to turn everyone into Sans Undertale.

 

[Quidd Dude]

Reimu would be really weird as a Mii fighter so i hope that doesn't happen.

If Reimu makes it into smash i think she's going to be the next fighter or the one after that since i think that this time the Smash team is putting a big character as the final one of the pass.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

If Reimu makes it into smash i think she's going to be the next fighter or the one after that since i think that this time the Smash team is putting a big character as the final one of the pass.

The final DLC fighter could be Crash Bandicoot. The fighters pass might wrap up with a Double Reveal.

 

[zriL]

For Banjo, they got in because A: Minecraft made a bridge between Nintendo and Microsoft, and more importantly, B: Banjo had a massive amount of requests.

This is pure speculation. These might have played a role, but I believe Banjo didn't need any of these to be legitimate. Banjo probably would have been in melee if he hadn't been bought by Microsoft, or in Brawl for sure. If I remember correctly, the lastest source gaming video implied this as well.

 

[SharkLord]

This is pure speculation. These might have played a role, but I believe Banjo didn't need any of these to be legitimate. Banjo probably would have been in melee if he hadn't been bought by Microsoft, or in Brawl for sure. If I remember correctly, the lastest source gaming video implied this as well.

No, it was explicitly stated. It was stated that Minecraft is what paved the way for Nintendo and Microsoft relations, and it was stated that Banjo got in due to being highly requested by the Western fanbase. They probably would've been in Melee or Brawl had Nintendo owned them, but Nintendo doesn't own them now and circumstances have changed.

 

[Commander_Alph]

And people keep saying Reimu would be good as a "Mii Costume"

If she's a mii costume she will literally look quite similar to Nakoruru (black hair, white & red outfit, bow in their hair)

 

[Lyncario]

Joker : I really have a hard time understanding this pick but to at least it was RPG of the year at TGA the previous year (2017)

About Joker, Persona is part of the larger Megami Tensei series, (which includes SMT, even if not everything is SMT), and well, Megami Tensei is the second longest ongoing jrpg series behind only Dragon Quest, and also the first jrpg in the monster collector sub-category, which also includes Pokemon. So without Megami Tensei and Atlus, Pokemon may not have been a thing, so that's a pretty big thing, even if he doesn't represent the nearly 35 years the Megami Tensei series existed for.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Reimu would be really weird as a Mii fighter so i hope that doesn't happen.

If Reimu makes it into smash i think she's going to be the next fighter or the one after that since i think that this time the Smash team is putting a big character as the final one of the pass.

if the KOS-MOS/Crash/Reimu is true I feel like KOS-MOS might be FP9 to be the post-Sephiroth breather before the dual east-west double whammy at E3 2021 of Reimu and Crash respectively. I mean Touhou's pretty much almost Dragon Quest huge in Japan

or no I would dare say

it IS Dragon Quest huge in Japan

 

[PurpleXCompleX]

The other big reason why i dont see a Reimu Mii costume is simply because just how well known Touhou is for its music.
And most of the best known and beloved Touhou songs arent even related to Reimu herself.
It would be a big missed opportunity to reduce Touhou to just 1 song if im being honest with you all.
So I say she either is in as part of a fighters pack or entirely absent.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

The other big reason why i dont see a Reimu Mii costume is simply because just how well known Touhou is for its music.
And most of the best known and beloved Touhou songs arent even related to Reimu herself.
It would be a big missed opportunity to reduce Touhou to just 1 song if im being honest with you all.
So I say she either is in as part of a fighters pack or entirely absent.

If Reimu makes it in, I doubt we would get a lack of Touhou music.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

The other big reason why i dont see a Reimu Mii costume is simply because just how well known Touhou is for its music.
And most of the best known and beloved Touhou songs arent even related to Reimu herself.
It would be a big missed opportunity to reduce Touhou to just 1 song if im being honest with you all.
So I say she either is in as part of a fighters pack or entirely absent.

say can i see that reimu leak from last year again? i wanna check something

 

[SharkLord]

say can i see that reimu leak from last year again? i wanna check something

Which one? The doujin leak, or something else?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Which one? The doujin leak, or something else?

yeah the doujin leak

 

[kaithehedgefox]

yeah the doujin leak

Where was this leak from again?

 

[SharkLord]

yeah the doujin leak

Doujin Leak Updated - Google Slides

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Doujin Leak Updated - Google Slides

some things:

• indie ladder theory seems solid. Reimu's only competition at this point is Hollow Knight due to the game's popularity and I have a feeling it'll be costumed
• no mention of the Sephiroth-KOSMOS-Reimu-Crash 5ch leak though I imagine that may be added soon seeing as how the first in that list was confirmed
• DOUJIN CIRCLES PROVIDING MUSIC??? BRUH I GOT TWO I GOT TO HEAR: THIS AND THIS

 

[Momotsuki]

I just got my degree in clairvoyance and so I can finally say it. Reimu is FP11 and is going to be revealed and showcased in November as a one-off presentation and released five-seven days after this presentation. The update adding her as DLC will also add Master Hand as a full-fledged fighter (a reworked and heavily neutered version of his WoL incarnation) as part of a free update, as a send-off for the roster.

 

[SharkLord]

some things:

• indie ladder theory seems solid. Reimu's only competition at this point is Hollow Knight due to the game's popularity and I have a feeling it'll be costumed
• no mention of the Sephiroth-KOSMOS-Reimu-Crash 5ch leak though I imagine that may be added soon seeing as how the first in that list was confirmed
• DOUJIN CIRCLES PROVIDING MUSIC??? BRUH I GOT TWO I GOT TO HEAR: THIS AND THIS

Granted, it probably hasn't been updated since Steve. Not sure when the person who runs it last checked.

On a side note, rereading this clarified the "Nintendo will support ZUN in various ways" thing, being EoSD specifically. Interesting...

 

[kaithehedgefox]

I just got my degree in clairvoyance and so I can finally say it. Reimu is FP11 and is going to be revealed and showcased in November as a one-off presentation and released five-seven days after this presentation. The update adding her as DLC will also add Master Hand as a full-fledged fighter (a reworked and heavily neutered version of his WoL incarnation) as part of a free update, as a send-off for the roster.

Where did you get this theory from?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Granted, it probably hasn't been updated since Steve. Not sure when the person who runs it last checked.

On a side note, rereading this clarified the "Nintendo will support ZUN in various ways" thing, being EoSD specifically. Interesting...

i'd personally prefer PCB myself cause Yuyuko and Yukari, my queens

but beggars cant be choosers ig

 

[MaddaD]

Good luck, Reimus. I hope she gets in, despite every massive hill in front of her.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Good luck, Reimus. I hope she gets in, despite every massive hill in front of her.

So what are the massive hills blocking Reimu? Could you please explain to me?

 

[zriL]

No, it was explicitly stated. It was stated that Minecraft is what paved the way for Nintendo and Microsoft relations, and it was stated that Banjo got in due to being highly requested by the Western fanbase. They probably would've been in Melee or Brawl had Nintendo owned them, but Nintendo doesn't own them now and circumstances have changed.

I might have read that too but do you have the source ? Still my point was that Banjo was a legit pick in itself and didn't need fan request to get in, contrary to what most people claim. In the end, what Microsoft did is blocking Banjo before allowing them later. So it's more like minecraft allowed to cancel Microsoft blocking Banjo, rather than just allowing Banjo

As for fan request, I believe fan request didn't change much, maybe simply confirming the hype for Banjo hadn't died despite having no game, or maybe just accelerated things. But I wish people would stop claiming Banjo was the miracle fruit of the smash community because it's ridiculous. Fan demand was more a consequence of the glaring hole in the roster that was Banjo, rather than the cause of its inclusion.

if the KOS-MOS/Crash/Reimu is true I feel like KOS-MOS might be FP9 to be the post-Sephiroth breather before the dual east-west double whammy at E3 2021 of Reimu and Crash respectively. I mean Touhou's pretty much almost Dragon Quest huge in Japan

For now there is no reason to believe this "leak". If next character doesn't break it, especially if it's KOSMOS, then it will be interesting.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I might have read that too but do you have the source ? Still my point was that Banjo was a legit pick in itself and didn't need fan request to get in, contrary to what most people claim. In the end, what Microsoft did is blocking Banjo before allowing them later. So it's more like minecraft allowed to cancel Microsoft blocking Banjo, rather than just allowing Banjo

As for fan request, I believe fan request didn't change much, maybe simply confirming the hype for Banjo hadn't died despite having no game, or maybe just accelerated things. But I wish people would stop claiming Banjo was the miracle fruit of the smash community because it's ridiculous. Fan demand was more a consequence of the glaring hole in the roster that was Banjo, rather than the cause of its inclusion.



For now there is no reason to believe this "leak". If next character doesn't break it, especially if it's KOSMOS, then it will be interesting.

i feel like Crash wouldn't be a solid confirm to the leak tho as Crash has been heavily rumored otherwise. KOS-MOS or Reimu would seal the deal for sure

 

[MaddaD]

So what are the massive hills blocking Reimu? Could you please explain to me?

I'll condense them:
• Touhou is quite popular in Japan though with only a droplet of which compared to other countries. Not to mention Nintendo itself is choosing the characters rather than Sakurai, more emphasis on a game's reputation than fan picks. Other characters with a more broader appeal.
• Her kit would need to be vastly different to the current spellcaster fighters in at the moment, while still retaining its bullet hell gameplay.
• Reimu's a Pure Indie character in a game where such slots are given the Mii Costume treatment. Even Shovel Knight/Cuphead/Undertale, indie behemoths, couldn't get a playable character in.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

I'll condense them:
• Touhou is quite popular in Japan though with only a droplet of which compared to other countries. Not to mention Nintendo itself is choosing the characters rather than Sakurai, more emphasis on a game's reputation than fan picks. Other characters with a more broader appeal.
• Her kit would need to be vastly different to the current spellcaster fighters in at the moment, while still retaining its bullet hell gameplay.
• Reimu's a Pure Indie character in a game where such slots are given the Mii Costume treatment. Even Shovel Knight/Cuphead/Undertale, indie behemoths, couldn't get a playable character in.

I've been aware of these factors for a while already. But Sakurai didn't official confirm that Indie reps are disallowed from being playable. So thus, Reimu can still get in. And I will continue to support her!

 

[perfectchaos83]

The other big reason why i dont see a Reimu Mii costume is simply because just how well known Touhou is for its music.
And most of the best known and beloved Touhou songs arent even related to Reimu herself.
It would be a big missed opportunity to reduce Touhou to just 1 song if im being honest with you all.
So I say she either is in as part of a fighters pack or entirely absent.

This has been exactly my thoughts on a Reimu Mii Costume. Getting a singular track from Undertale and Cuphead that most would consider the definitive "must have" is easy. However, I've always felt that is not the case with Touhou. You can ask 20 different Touhou fans their favorite song and you'd likely get 16 different answers. Music is Touhou's most defining characteristic and unless Sakurai goes mad and just releases a Touhou music pack, Touhou's either playable or it gets nothing.

In unrelated news, I was watching one Nick Robinson's videos on the lost McDonalds training game for the DS and he gave a neat shoutout to the Ran Ran Ru video and gave a small description of it and noting it as "Internet Royalty". It's at 26:16 in this video

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[kaithehedgefox]

This has been exactly my thoughts on a Reimu Mii Costume. Getting a singular track from Undertale and Cuphead that most would consider the definitive "must have" is easy. However, I've always felt that is not the case with Touhou. You can ask 20 different Touhou fans their favorite song and you'd likely get 16 different answers. Music is Touhou's most defining characteristic and unless Sakurai goes mad and just releases a Touhou music pack, Touhou's either playable or it gets nothing.

Just like King of Fighters, Touhou might still get some mii costumes if Reimu makes it in.

 

[Momotsuki]

Where did you get this theory from?

Theory? I've done the math, and just wait until we add Kurt Angle to the mix...

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Theory? I've done the math, and just wait until we add Kurt Angle to the mix...

So what is the Kurt Angle?

 

[MaddaD]

I've been aware of these factors for a while already. But Sakurai didn't official confirm that Indie reps are disallowed from being playable. So thus, Reimu can still get in. And I will continue to support her!

Of course not, but it's better to know the rules before you blindly hope. I'll be with you in hoping though!

In the vein of a potential deluxe mii costume, my best guess is they'd choose U.N. Owen Was Her? or Bad Apple for the rep.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Of course not, but it's better to know the rules before you blindly hope. I'll be with you in hoping though!

In the vein of a potential deluxe mii costume, my best guess is they'd choose U.N. Owen Was Her? or Bad Apple for the rep.

I don't think Flandre would get a deluxe mii costume, but I'm pretty sure Shovel Knight would! Also, I'm curious if non-deluxe mii costumes can include additional soundtrack as well?

 

[Momotsuki]

"You get Reimu Mii and U.N. Owen Was Her?. Praise Ronald. Go home."

 

[kaithehedgefox]

"You get Reimu Mii and U.N. Owen Was Her?. Praise Ronald. Go home."

Wouldn't we get Reimu's theme as well?

 

[zferolie]

a bit late replying to these, sorry.

It's off topic but I'm curious about what do you think Shantae has that other candidates don't, besides a really creative move set potential. Hundreds of characters have that so it won't make any character stand out. DLC so far confirms that it's not very important, only Hero, Min Min and Steve had really creative movesets. Besides, creative movesets cost more and this is the only reason we didn't get Steve earlier. Shantae's transmations could be quite costly if they want to use it well.

In my opinion, to be a legitimate candidate as third party, you need to be first or close to best representative for at least one aspect of gaming.
For example :
Joker : I really have a hard time understanding this pick but to at least it was RPG of the year at TGA the previous year (2017)
Hero : biggest jrpg franchise not in the game yet
Banjo : biggest platformer not in the game, at least on Nintendo platforms. Even then, I believe only Crash would top Banjo in platformers.
Terry : one of the biggest and oldest fighting game franchise, there are a lot of other big fighting games, but it's easy to argue Fatal Fury/KOF is up there
Steve : best selling game of all time
Sephiroth : most iconic villain not in the game yet, only competition would be Eggman

Shantae :
2D Platformer ? I believe Shovel Night, Hollow Knight, Celeste and probably many others are more deserving. There are also older ones like Ninja Gaiden.
Indie ? Same as before, add Touhou and Cave Story to that.
Joker pick ? Unless I'm mistaken, Shantae didn't get any notable prize
Sales ? I don't recall Shantae's sales is anything special

So I don't know what Shantae brings to the table. Sorry if I sound harsh but I always look at this things in a pragmatic way because I believe Nintendo doesn't decide these things in any other way.

Shantae I think has legacy over Hallow Knight and Shovel Knight. Plus, Wayforward has been a company for awhile, and if luck had been different, Shantae could have been a nintendo SNES exclusive game back in the 90's when they first pitched her. I feel Shantae and wayforward really fit that indie spirit, just like Reimu does.

This is exactly why I can't consider her chances as "decent". Nintendo will always choose the best first, right now Nintendo has no reason to chose Shantae over others. Though once more characters get added, she might get a chance in future smash games, unless newer games get in before her everytime.
In the end, I believe she only need one great game to become a great candidate. For example, if her last game had been really great, I mean good enough to gain more exposure and to be nominated at TGA for example, she would instantly become a great addition because she also has a legacy to back it up. That's exactly what happened to Joker.

We honestly have no idea how nintendo and sakurai picks and chooses. And I really don't think a good/award winning game means anything. Doomguy didn't get picked.

Honestly I feel like the main advantage Shantae has is being more "Casual" friendly since even casual players know her specifically and she already has a spirit in the game, meaning she has content in Smash already.

What Touhou has is a lot of variety for content and predating Shantae as the "Oldest Indie series" around. I consider Touhou a more "Hardcore" series in the sense that fewer people actually played the games compared to Shantae but it has a stronger legacy and IMO gives it stronger chances than most possible Indie reps. Shantae would be great in Smash and in an ideal world, both her and Reimu would get in the roster but unless there's more passes, it may likely be Reimu who will fill the big indie game.

And people keep saying Reimu would be good as a "Mii Costume" but no playstyle fits her unless they pull an Aerith Mii here. If we had a Mii mage character then I could see it(Sidenote I am surprised we don't have that) but unless you want things to be really wonky, a Reimu Mii Costume is unlikely.

I know Reimu is the older Indie series. I honestly feel TOuhou represents the japanese doujin scene, and Shantae represents the Western indie scene. both deserve to get in

 

[kaithehedgefox]

I know Reimu is the older Indie series. I honestly feel TOuhou represents the japanese doujin scene, and Shantae represents the Western indie scene. both deserve to get in

I absolutely agree with you! Both Reimu and Shantae merit to be playable! Neither of them should be relegated to assist trophies or mii costumes.

 

[Momotsuki]

I mean, in a perfect world, every video game character with any merit at all is in Smash. Navigating the CSS is similar in nature to that of a phone book or a dictionary in this world. This world isn't ours, though.

I don't have anything against Shantae but I'd consider her and Reimu to be pretty-well mutually exclusive in any particular pass, in all honesty. We'd have to see, no? She's - actually one of the few characters I would say kills Reimu's chances were she to get in.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

I mean, in a perfect world, every video game character with any merit at all is in Smash. Navigating the CSS is similar in nature to that of a phone book or a dictionary in this world. This world isn't ours, though.

I don't have anything against Shantae but I'd consider her and Reimu to be pretty-well mutually exclusive in any particular pass, in all honesty. We'd have to see, no? She's - actually one of the few characters I would say kill Reimu's chances.

One major difference is that Shantae has had plentiful console game history. In contrast Touhou has been primarily Windows-exclusive.