Reaper Neku
Smash Rookie
Alright so I've been maining Lucario since day one of Brawl. I've become a pretty good player (of course with a few bad habits) and an ok Lucario, although I feel that sometimes I don't use Lucario to his full potential. But anyways, as of late, I've been looking around the Lucario boards here and it seems that Lucario's metagame (and lack of one) hasn't made any progress. I mean I understand that figuring out matchups and stuff are very important, just as making good guides to help Lucario players of new and old. I actually owe most of my Lucario ability at brawl to the Inner Fire videos >.<. BUT back to the point.
Although I'm no pro brawler, I'm a Lucario mainer with ideas. Hopefully these idea will help Lucario's metagame, or at least get a big ball rolling. And if I'm mentioning anything that has been said before, sorry, but it never hurts to revise and double check when you have nothing else to go on lol.
Ok first off, pivot grab (Not metagame, but the MG idea builds up from here).
Now we all know that Lucario's grab range...well...blows hard to be frank. However, we all also know that Lucario's grabs are very helpful to winning. Now, I've been looking at this, using pivot grab as lucario can be very helpful. Before anyone casts judgment, lets hear it out first lol. Now, lets say you're on FD or SV. You have high damage, you're ahead a stock, and you're on the edge of the stage. You're opponent is kinda making it hard to move from the spot, even with you're long roll range. To make it worse, you have no aura sphere! Now you can try a BAS which would stop him for a sec if it lands. But everything else won't really help. You don't want to use a laggy move because if you miss, that could be the end of the aura power you had. But lets say he does a move that has a good amount of lag and you spot dodge (like they did an aerial and FF the landing and had landing lag). Unfortunately there's not enough time for fsmash (and they would be anticipating an attack so they shield up) nor charge an AS, and ftilt would only have the second part of it hit because of the distance (if they don't shield, in which they would be an idiot). But something that could work could work since you are so close is a pivot grab! Now the question can arise why pivot grab, in which I would answer this; the person is at a high percent like you. High percent + b throw = eh ok. HOWEVER, High percent + f throw = more knockback, better chance of killing, and more damage. Not saying this is a solid idea, but its something I feel can be discussed at the very least. Now this is actually something
I have tested myself and it works suprisingly well. (Against a Mario at around 126% for me and 108% for him) Thanks to the nice aura boost and their high damage it hurt my opponent pretty well. Although I didn't get the kill with F throw, I was able to follow up with a nice aura boosted u air when they tried to fast fall down back to the stage. Wouldn't have been able to do that with B throw since they would have been lower and able to recover easier. (Against a Kirby I was at around 136% and they were around 118%) The kirby was f air rushing me. He tried to shffair fast fall me, I spot dodge the last kick and then ran past him. By the time he landed, I could pivot grab and since the movement was so quick and minute, I guess he was thinking his F air would still hit or something, but when I grabbed him and fthrew him, his DI was something horrible and killed him right away. Now of course I realize all of this is something situational but maybe it is something we could look at, since Lucario does have a killer fthrow. (Both accounts happened on Smashville)
SECOND! Extreme Retreat? (Now, this the metagame game idea I had. Built up from the "what should I do in a pinch" situation).
Ok now this is a radical Idea I had one day. Lucario has a nice recovery, although for an up b move it blows lol. But I had a passing thought; Lucario is in the league of people who have the ability to have their Up B go in multiple directions (Fox, Wolf, Falco, Sheikah, Zelda). Now taking the spacies out because, dear God their Up B recovery kinda blows, that leaves us Sheikah and Zelda. Now if you think about Sheik and Zelda, both have nice uses for their Up B. Starting with Sheikah, she has the ability to run off the stage and do the floating up B to KO people if they are near the edge and get back. Also, the Sheikah player could chase after someone with Up B on the ground or in the air, and if it missed, allows them the ability to retreat, usually being unharmed. Now I think it would be interesting to look at this for Lucario. Indeed his Up B does no damage, it still shares similarities to Zelda's and Sheikah's Up B in which it allows you to change you're direction. Now going from that, perhaps we can go somewhere. I was looking at peoples' thoughts of the Up B bouncing but I have to say that its kinda eh. But back to my idea, say perhaps you are at high damage. You just got back on the stage and you're on the edge. Now lets say you're against an KO man Ike or anyone with a good KO move that takes up a good amount of vertical and/or horizontal space (which is why I pick ike for his U smash).
Now lets say that Ike is on the edge waiting for your next move. You can't use ledge attack because its too slow and if you miss well you could be in trouble. You can attempt to roll but then since it's so slow, that can end badly. So you're going down the list of things that do and don't make sense to do. You're left with just getting up and ledge jumping up (I leave out the aura sphere option and f air onto stage because aura sphere, unless charged, won't help that much, and it can leave you vulnerable, while the F air is only a viable option if he is right at the edge). Now you can try to get up on the ledge, possibly drop down and jump on stage to get rid of some lag or whatever, but then that puts you head to head against a heavy hitter like Ike, when you have high damage, at the edge of th stage. So you decide to ledge jump but not jump far onto the stage in fear of giving him time to catch on and F air you. This puts you above Ike, which isn't all that bad, nor all that good (all of this is assuming that he hasn't done something to kill you in the initial jump). Now that you are above Ike, but not much momentum, you just sorta drift downward, possibly moving left of right. Now Ike charges his U smash while you just start traveling down. Since you don't have much momentum, you are drifiting down in his hit range at this point. What do you do? Well you can jump again, which may help, assuming he doesn't release his smash, and stalk you from the stage, possibly with another U smash. Or maybe you do jump again and he doesn't catch on and you fast fall (which I can't imagine a decent brawler not realizing this...).
So when it comes to a decent brawler, what you are left with is trying to dodge the U smash as you drift down, which could maybe work, or maybe get you killed. You're d air could possibly stall you, maybe that would open something up, maybe not. Theres double team, but I'd rather take my chance Air dodging. So what do you do? Well I figure, Extreme speed the hell out of there? Since it is a bit of an odd tactic, gives you a second for you to aim where you want to go, and gtfo of that smash range. Why would I suggest this? Well we all know about the way the Extreme hog technique works, so you could use the Extreme retreat to get back to the edge and possibly try and make a better decision on how to proceed. OR, you could Extreme retreat out of the smash range on to the stage. This could work quite well seeing as how, unless the character is fast, you should be able to recover from the move, especially if you crash into the stage and bounce. From here you are now back in Lucario's home area and can go from there. I've tried this in a few friendlies against an Ike, (which is why I used this in the example) and it works suprisingly well with getting me out of the U smash range and into safety.
These are my ideas that I've had guys, please lets go from here and try to get somewhere together. I post it here on SWF because I am actually looking for creative and intelligent responses, not just flaming.
(Closing thought) is it possible to do a running pivot FP? I dont think so but it would be very helpful if we came up with some way to do something similar...
Although I'm no pro brawler, I'm a Lucario mainer with ideas. Hopefully these idea will help Lucario's metagame, or at least get a big ball rolling. And if I'm mentioning anything that has been said before, sorry, but it never hurts to revise and double check when you have nothing else to go on lol.
Ok first off, pivot grab (Not metagame, but the MG idea builds up from here).
Now we all know that Lucario's grab range...well...blows hard to be frank. However, we all also know that Lucario's grabs are very helpful to winning. Now, I've been looking at this, using pivot grab as lucario can be very helpful. Before anyone casts judgment, lets hear it out first lol. Now, lets say you're on FD or SV. You have high damage, you're ahead a stock, and you're on the edge of the stage. You're opponent is kinda making it hard to move from the spot, even with you're long roll range. To make it worse, you have no aura sphere! Now you can try a BAS which would stop him for a sec if it lands. But everything else won't really help. You don't want to use a laggy move because if you miss, that could be the end of the aura power you had. But lets say he does a move that has a good amount of lag and you spot dodge (like they did an aerial and FF the landing and had landing lag). Unfortunately there's not enough time for fsmash (and they would be anticipating an attack so they shield up) nor charge an AS, and ftilt would only have the second part of it hit because of the distance (if they don't shield, in which they would be an idiot). But something that could work could work since you are so close is a pivot grab! Now the question can arise why pivot grab, in which I would answer this; the person is at a high percent like you. High percent + b throw = eh ok. HOWEVER, High percent + f throw = more knockback, better chance of killing, and more damage. Not saying this is a solid idea, but its something I feel can be discussed at the very least. Now this is actually something
I have tested myself and it works suprisingly well. (Against a Mario at around 126% for me and 108% for him) Thanks to the nice aura boost and their high damage it hurt my opponent pretty well. Although I didn't get the kill with F throw, I was able to follow up with a nice aura boosted u air when they tried to fast fall down back to the stage. Wouldn't have been able to do that with B throw since they would have been lower and able to recover easier. (Against a Kirby I was at around 136% and they were around 118%) The kirby was f air rushing me. He tried to shffair fast fall me, I spot dodge the last kick and then ran past him. By the time he landed, I could pivot grab and since the movement was so quick and minute, I guess he was thinking his F air would still hit or something, but when I grabbed him and fthrew him, his DI was something horrible and killed him right away. Now of course I realize all of this is something situational but maybe it is something we could look at, since Lucario does have a killer fthrow. (Both accounts happened on Smashville)
SECOND! Extreme Retreat? (Now, this the metagame game idea I had. Built up from the "what should I do in a pinch" situation).
Ok now this is a radical Idea I had one day. Lucario has a nice recovery, although for an up b move it blows lol. But I had a passing thought; Lucario is in the league of people who have the ability to have their Up B go in multiple directions (Fox, Wolf, Falco, Sheikah, Zelda). Now taking the spacies out because, dear God their Up B recovery kinda blows, that leaves us Sheikah and Zelda. Now if you think about Sheik and Zelda, both have nice uses for their Up B. Starting with Sheikah, she has the ability to run off the stage and do the floating up B to KO people if they are near the edge and get back. Also, the Sheikah player could chase after someone with Up B on the ground or in the air, and if it missed, allows them the ability to retreat, usually being unharmed. Now I think it would be interesting to look at this for Lucario. Indeed his Up B does no damage, it still shares similarities to Zelda's and Sheikah's Up B in which it allows you to change you're direction. Now going from that, perhaps we can go somewhere. I was looking at peoples' thoughts of the Up B bouncing but I have to say that its kinda eh. But back to my idea, say perhaps you are at high damage. You just got back on the stage and you're on the edge. Now lets say you're against an KO man Ike or anyone with a good KO move that takes up a good amount of vertical and/or horizontal space (which is why I pick ike for his U smash).
Now lets say that Ike is on the edge waiting for your next move. You can't use ledge attack because its too slow and if you miss well you could be in trouble. You can attempt to roll but then since it's so slow, that can end badly. So you're going down the list of things that do and don't make sense to do. You're left with just getting up and ledge jumping up (I leave out the aura sphere option and f air onto stage because aura sphere, unless charged, won't help that much, and it can leave you vulnerable, while the F air is only a viable option if he is right at the edge). Now you can try to get up on the ledge, possibly drop down and jump on stage to get rid of some lag or whatever, but then that puts you head to head against a heavy hitter like Ike, when you have high damage, at the edge of th stage. So you decide to ledge jump but not jump far onto the stage in fear of giving him time to catch on and F air you. This puts you above Ike, which isn't all that bad, nor all that good (all of this is assuming that he hasn't done something to kill you in the initial jump). Now that you are above Ike, but not much momentum, you just sorta drift downward, possibly moving left of right. Now Ike charges his U smash while you just start traveling down. Since you don't have much momentum, you are drifiting down in his hit range at this point. What do you do? Well you can jump again, which may help, assuming he doesn't release his smash, and stalk you from the stage, possibly with another U smash. Or maybe you do jump again and he doesn't catch on and you fast fall (which I can't imagine a decent brawler not realizing this...).
So when it comes to a decent brawler, what you are left with is trying to dodge the U smash as you drift down, which could maybe work, or maybe get you killed. You're d air could possibly stall you, maybe that would open something up, maybe not. Theres double team, but I'd rather take my chance Air dodging. So what do you do? Well I figure, Extreme speed the hell out of there? Since it is a bit of an odd tactic, gives you a second for you to aim where you want to go, and gtfo of that smash range. Why would I suggest this? Well we all know about the way the Extreme hog technique works, so you could use the Extreme retreat to get back to the edge and possibly try and make a better decision on how to proceed. OR, you could Extreme retreat out of the smash range on to the stage. This could work quite well seeing as how, unless the character is fast, you should be able to recover from the move, especially if you crash into the stage and bounce. From here you are now back in Lucario's home area and can go from there. I've tried this in a few friendlies against an Ike, (which is why I used this in the example) and it works suprisingly well with getting me out of the U smash range and into safety.
These are my ideas that I've had guys, please lets go from here and try to get somewhere together. I post it here on SWF because I am actually looking for creative and intelligent responses, not just flaming.
(Closing thought) is it possible to do a running pivot FP? I dont think so but it would be very helpful if we came up with some way to do something similar...
