Sheik's Variety/Mindgames

[False Soundz]

Well as we all heard of before, mindgames, mindtricks, variety, whatever they call it nowadays.

I'm having trouble thinking of or using any mindgames during play. I'm always doing the same thing every match. I run up, short hop, nair and DI back. Sometimes I'll just run up short hop and fast fall because my opponent will be expecting the nair, so from there I can grab or jump the second time and nair. That's the only thing I can think of to keep my game mixed up. Seriously, nothing else.

So basically I'm asking if anyone can give me any tips on sheiks mind play. I find it hard to play with "a lot of variety" My opponent knows what I'm gonna do because I can't do anything else.

Also does anybody else feel like it's time to make these boards a bit more active? It's starting to feel a little dead in here.

 

[Mith_]

Mindgame: Up+B an approach and land behind your opponent.

Hella pro IMO.

 

[False Soundz]

Mindgame: Up+B an approach and land behind your opponent.

Hella pro IMO.

Never thought of that, that sounds sexy lol. But isn't there enough landing lag for it to get punished by a grab or some other quick attack?

 

[JackieRabbit5]

yeah theres a number of things u can do that could be punishable but if u mix it up so they don't expect it u can get away with it

this is something i need to work on too, i can be stubborn

maybe try and throw off their timing w/ an upB, random chain or needles at proper spacing...approach by run attack, grab, or short hop with any aerial...DACUS or just hyphen smash sometimes i do one when i should do the other heh...just some ideas

also need to think about defensive game

 

[False Soundz]

Yeah a random chain and some unexpected needles seem to be a really good idea. DACUS out of nowhere can also really throw off someone's game. Not knowing when to expect it could be a mindgame even out of itself.

You guys think I should put up a list of some potential mindgames? In case anyone ever needs help with mixing up their game and becoming more unpredictable.

Also Jackie I looked at your Krystal moveset, I really hope she's in SSB4. Your moveset was kickass.

 

[Lore]

Well, you could always try simply mixing up your moves. Maybe adding in a few jabs in, f-tilts, even up smash earlier on. They all can be surprising.

To be honest, figuring out what the opponent is going to do, then punishing them for it, is the best example of a mind game. Like, if your opponent roll dodges a lot, try a down smash.

Try it out, and work on spacing while you are at it.

 

[False Soundz]

I do that all the time lol, I vary it up with ftilts, jabs, or sometime's fsmashes. That's just using different moves. He's knows I'm going to use a move, my goal is for him not to know if I'm going to use a move, if I'm going to grab, if I'm going to DACUS, if I'm going to just run away and needle camp.

I'm trying to trick him. But thanks for the advice.
Those all are variable, just not mindgames.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

How about a few things out of Sheik's throws. If they are expecting you to chase after throwing, you can sit and perhaps it with an Usmash or even Vanish. Fthrow at medium to high damage is definitely the one I'm looking at since I like to either chase in the air or sit on the ground and wait or an attack or airdodge. Easy punishment.

 

[East]

Yeah, a very sparingly done vanish as a follow up to a forward throw completely throws people off. I've done that in too many matches, and the results are good. Don't use it too much though. As soon as they start expecting it, you'll get *****.

 

[Mith_]

Never thought of that, that sounds sexy lol. But isn't there enough landing lag for it to get punished by a grab or some other quick attack?

Its a mindgame. They won't be expecting it so they can't punish it. Simple.

Dashing needles work for me, and Short Hop needles.

Never do the same thing twice and you should be fine

 

[Blistering Speed]

Dash attack is a fantastic mixup, they never see it coming. Unless you use it often, then they definately see it coming. But people will shield on instinct when you're running up if you spam it enough, can you say grab?

Shiek's generally so quick at short range she doesn't need many mindgames, but the chain puts the fear of God into some people, specially if you pull of a quick 30% with it and they have no idea how XD

 

[Blad01]

Well, use more FF Fair to Jab, FF Fair to grab to mix up with your Nair, but also use SH Fair > DJ > Vanish / Nair, that's pretty good

Mix up your ground approach with Dash Attack / Grab / Pivot Grab / DACUS / Shield / Vanish.

I don't use chain at all, i find it really useless ôO I don't uderstand what is the excitation about it (even with "chain lock", an opponent won't run straight into it ôO).

 

[Tristan_win]

After a while people realize that sheiks dash attack, dacus and grab can easily be side step with little to no punishment when timed right because of that I developed a mindgame I've very fond of although technically it would be better to save until the later %

Basically what I do from time to do against heavy side stepers is run up to them into a charging usmash, they side step by nature and just as it finishes I hit them with my usmash.

 

[SinkingHigher]

This works really well with Zelda, I don't know about Sheik.

After a kill as Zelda I go and teeter at the edge. When my opponents runs at me, usually reeking of vengeance, I FW away just in time.

Once they notice they run at you, and usually this provides the perfect set up for a F-smash to the face. Other times I FW back to the ledge and teleport cancel, or maybe even farther away.

If these are friendlies, then after a few matches this catches on, even if it's not after a kill. So, I run to the edge when they're at a high percentage, and FW down as the run close. They'll turn around to go get you as you re-appear, but once they realise what just happened, they run back--usually blindly-- and then they're open for whatever you wanna give them. Ledge-drop to lightning kick works, or just a U-smash.

Now I don't know if Sheik can adopt this exact maneouver, but try to keep Vanishing to safety. After some time they'll learn the pattern. At this point, change it and prepare to DACUS or just do a running U-smash.

 

[Wildfire393]

Approach mixups:

Jumping:
Shorthop retreating Nair
Shorthop Fastfalled Fair to grab
Shothop through and Bair
RAR Shorthop Bair (Hard to punish due to range)
Shorthop Chain
Shorthop Single Needle/Charged Needles
Fullhop Dair
Shorthop Airdodge (through?) to whatever ground attack
Shorthop Up-B (away)

Running:
Running Shield-grab
Running-Stop Chain
Dash attack
Running Upsmash
DACUS
Shield-cancel to Ftilt/Dsmash/Jab
Sliding Spot Dodge to Ftilt/Dsmash/Jab
Running Up-B

Other:
Walking Ftilt
Crawling Dtilt

 

[-Mars-]

Fthrow to a pivot grab works a lot of the time, in fact just regrabbing after you throw them works enough times.

Pivot grabbing with Sheik is really good.

 

[False Soundz]

**** guys thanks for the output, I got a lot of replies fast. Too good lol.

I usually don't take tips but these are actually helping out my game. If anyone has anything to add go right ahead.

Anyone with me in reviving the Sheik boards again?

 

[East]

*raises hand* I'm always here.

 

[choknater]

Just play with feeling.

I like this thread because it's not about always going for the "best option" when playing a mid tier character. You really have to open up your mind, watch the opponent, and do unpredictable stuff in order to win tournament matches.

 

[FrozenFire13]

Crawl backwards away from the opponent every now and then when you know you can't get punished. By the time they're done wondering why you're crawling, you can already have dash attacked, or DACUS'd them, lol. Kind of a joking suggestion, but I've found that it can work.

But seriously, the only thing that I can suggest that I haven't seen here already is needle sniping off the edge. Try and catch them when they're coming back to the stage with a diagonally sent needle. The slight lag combined with the element of surprise of being hit by something almost invisible, can make them fall that little extra amount to let you edge hog or whatever you feel necessary. They're usually so concerned with recovering, that the only thing they concentrate on is them, but they will keep a check on where you ARE, not necessarily what you're DOING. This is why you can surprise them with needles off the stage.

 

[East]

I'd actually like to do a study about killing via the needle in brawl. In Melee I would often use needles to hinder someone from getting back to the edge, such as foxes and falcos [as well as anyone else I could to] but with the reduced hitstun and the properties surrounding characters and grabbing the ledge in brawl, it doesn't really seem to do much. There have even been cases where when I hit someone with needles that I swore it has brough them closer to the edge and as a result they were able to better recover.

 

[JackieRabbit5]

Also Jackie I looked at your Krystal moveset, I really hope she's in SSB4. Your moveset was kickass.

Thanks^^

This is a good thread, can actally be really helpful since we all use our own little techniques and mindgames are such a big part of brawl

ya a few needles can mess up some chars' recoveries, like Pit's or a fastfaller who wasn't expecting it though can be hard to hit

lets thing about diff ways to edgeguard here:
Jump off Fair or Nair
Hang from ledge Bair
Needles (horizontal or diagonal)
Running upB off the edge
Tether hog
Chain off the edge(don't use much myself, oh could be good with chain jacket)

did i forget something?

 

[Villi]

You can get auto-canceled vanishes by directing your appearance to be slightly off the ground but not too high. You can still be punished before you hit the ground, but as soon as you land you can do whatever you feel like.

 

[LordoftheMorning]

If you're playing on a stage like battlefield and you're playing a character you're comfortable fighting against in the air, start jumping around. I like to jump high above and behind them and use the range on the Bair. Jump forward and back and be unpredictable. An impatient player will approach. If you land a fair close to the ground sometimes you can ftilt out of it.

 

[Flamingo777]

My favorite mix-up is spam b-air early on then later on do turn-around throw of full charged needles, their surprise usually relieves you of punishment. And of course. . .
__________________
DACUS, what a joke... I main Vanish Kill mindgames.

 

[SketchHurricane]

I was looking for a good thread to post this in, and it could fall under a mindgame if used that way so...

It's probably known, so I didn't want to make a thread. Sheik can stop her run with a needle charge, cancel the needle charge with L or Z (I prefer Z of course), and go into anything else from there. If you get the timing tight enough (not instant, or you will roll), you can pretty quickly pull out something like a down smash out of a run (looks just a tad quicker than run > shield > smash). Plus, I think you still get the single needle out of it, which would make it a better choice than shield > smash even if its the same speed (not totally sure on that one). I think the best use would be to stop just in dtilt or fsmash range, since anything closer would probably be safer with a spot dodge.

Anyway, does anyone use this?

 

[Villi]

Nah, chasing people in the air with your shield is safer and fast enough. Tech chasing is basically the same.

 

[colored blind]

Also: Jab cancel.

Links into SH Aerials, Ftilt, and Dtilt. If they begin to shield it, Jab also cancels into grab. Don't try it against Marth, though. Screw Dolphin Slash.

 

[demodemo]

yeap, its known already hurricane, but unless you hear two rings (while charging needles) no needles are stored. if not, it would be really cheap :|