Sheik's Move Tier list

[demodemo]

Because everyone ****ing has one god dam

Here is a tier list of sheiks moves, based on my opinion. Very open to make changes since I am always wrong. This list can help beginners know which moves use more, and which moves to use less. This is usability, not "goodness", eg. usmash isn't really that good, but is a very important part of sheiks game.

However, you should treat this list more like a guideline of what sort of moves you should incorporate into your game, rather than "what moves to do".

Keep in mind I am not trying to balance the categories (eg 5 moves for every category).

Spoiler

might morphing power rangers tier
Transform

Top
Forward Tilt
Back Air
Up Smash
Down Smash

High
Neutral Air
Up Tilt
Forward Air
Needles

Middle
Down tilt
Jab
Forward Throw*
Down Throw*
Back Throw*
Up Throw*
Chain

Low
Up air
Dash Attack
Vanish


Junk
Forward smash
Down Air


*the usefulness of all of the grabs are so similar that it is probably better to group them into one move as "grab" but whatever


Should I include things like, Needle Storm, rapid jabs, DACUS, etc.?

open for discussion, updating as needed

NOTE* I have been thinking a bit, and have realized that if the tier list will be based on "usefulness" it will not be accurate due to multiple playing styles. (a list on "goodness" would not be useful) The list above is definitely inaccurate, as it attempts to account for all kinds of playing styles, but nonetheless remains a basic guidline.

 

[Zankoku]

Fsmash is junk. Vanish is low. Chain is mid, mad good recovery/edgehog options. Bthrow < uair.

 

[demodemo]

well i don't know, to me all of the grabs seem too similar to split apart. Should I split them apart?

also, by chain i meant the general use of chain. I didn't want to have recovery as a factor, since then vanish would obviously have to be high since it is after all, her only option if an opponent grabs the edge. however, edgeguarding wise, yeah, it would be higher.

Should i split the same move into uses? or should i just base a move on its overall use?

edit- fixed high tiers, fair is fun to do, but in all truthfulness, it is still subpar. usmash is sheiks most reliable killer so should be higher.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Jab >> D Tilt
Chain, regardless of whether you want it not for recovery, is still quite a bit higher then that.
Dash attack > Vanish and Up Air.
F Smash > D Air, F Smash can be a decent option, D Air is always ****.
U Smash needs lowering a little, possibly below F Air.

IMO of course.

This thread did serve one purpose, it reminded I need to use B Air MUCH MORE. I can't contest it's her second best move and yet I use N Air and F Air so much more then it.

 

[demodemo]

i think usmash is just too important though, even if it isnt that good

i think dtilt is more useful than jab since comes out from a courch, and sheiks crouch is very good. plus, it has a good trajectory, and can lock at very low percentages where a ftilt wouldn't work. rapid jabs imo aren't that good, since after racking damage you are back to square 1, and sheik doesn't do so well in those situations.

fmash was a mistake, sorry, it should be above dair my mistake

I need more reasons for your stuff, like explain why jab would be better than dtilt, why chain is good, why dash attack is better than uair and vanish etc.

edit- moved vanish down since usmash is always a better KO option (unless its stale, which it shouldn't be) and need moar reasons for uair being bad. Uair has enough range and priority to cut through many aerials, and is a very good mixup in the air once bair becomes too predictable (other aerials dont have the range)

 

[D1RE]

Dair is good for throwing off the opponenets timing if the ytry to juggle you, but don't tell the noosb that, they'll spam it. So that means it ends up as junk after all.

Fsmash is nice against people who love to spotdodge a lot, dmash is better though. Still, only move that is direct junk is Dair, put fsmash in low IMO since you can use it for good variation and it doesn't suck that badly.

The chain is a beast in the hands of someone who knows how to use it well, isn't it even a 70% chainlock on some chars if done properly? Also, MK have troubles with approaching if you defend with it, which alone makes it high. Bot of high maybe?

The position of bair and nair can be discussed, but overall I agree with the rest.

 

[Blad01]

Top

Forward Tilt
Down Smash

High

Fair
Bair
Nair
DACUS

Middle

Up Tilt
Needles (neutral B)
Jab
Vanish


Down Throw
Forward Throw
Back Thrown
FSmash
DTilt
USmash (DACUS guys è_é)
Chain

Low

Dash Attack
Dair
Uair
Down B

 

[Zankoku]

fsmash is junk because if you so much as space it a little wrong then even a clean hit will make the second hit miss.

 

[demodemo]

^what he said

@blad01 Dtilt is good, i think you should try it more

 

[Blad01]

@blad01 Dtilt is good, i think you should try it more

Well yes it can be good... But it's a Ftilt, just less good, isn't it ?

fsmash is junk because if you so much as space it a little wrong then even a clean hit will make the second hit miss.

Well FSmash is good after a retreating aerial, or against a shielding opponent on a side of the stage. A charged FSmash is also good for breaking shields.

 

[-Mars-]

Fsmash is crap, the only time I ever use it is if i'm getting pissed off because my opponent is still alive at 180%.

 

[NJzFinest]

Ftilt and Transform should be in God Tier.

 

[null55]

*Runs back to Melee*

 

[rinoH]

to me needles should be higher

 

[-Mars-]

to me needles should be higher

No, needles have too long of a cooldown period for them to be one of her best moves. You really can only afford to use them at long distances.

 

[demodemo]

yes, needles are still essential though, again not because they are particularly good, but because they are the only projectile sheik has, and does a lot of damage reliably.

for some reason the "best move" thread has sheiks needles listed in the top 10 lol

edit- for neutral b attacks

 

[KRDsonic]

I personally like Sheik's Fsmash a lot... Though sadly it isn't all that helpful x.x Except when you know someone will spot dodge, but even then I prefer to grab or Dsmash or Dtilt/Ftilt

 

[NJzFinest]

Her grab release should be considered a move.

 

[Wildfire393]

Top
Forward Tilt
Back Air
Down Smash
Neutral air

Spoiler

Transform

High
Up Smash
Up Tilt
Forward Air
Needles

Middle
Down tilt
Jab
Forward Throw*
Down Throw*
Back Throw*
Up Throw*
Up air

Low
Dash Attack
Vanish
Chain

Junk
Forward smash
Down Air

Let's see... I disagree with a number of these placements. Here's what I'd do

Top Tier:
Ftilt
Utilt
Dsmash
Bair
Needles
- Easily Sheik's best five moves.

High Tier:
Jab
Dtilt
Fthrow/Bthrow
Nair
Fair
Usmash
- Sheik's other good combo options/set-ups, plus the most viable kill moves

Mid Tier:
Dthrow
Uair
Vanish
Fsmash
- Sheik's usable moves that aren't outrageously good. Fsmash is good for roll-punishing

Low Tier:
Chain
Uthrow
Dash Attack
- Sheik's situationally usable moves. Uthrow is by far the worst of the throws as it sets up the worst

Bottom Tier:
Dair
- Never, ever use Dair except MAYBE to penetrate an Olimar's Usmash.

 

[NJzFinest]

High Tier:
Jab
Dtilt
Fthrow/Bthrow
Nair
Fair
Usmash
- Sheik's other good combo options/set-ups, plus the most viable kill moves

I only see one.

And DownB doesn't seem to be included as one of her most viable kill moves, or even in the entire list, heh.

 

[D1RE]

Dair is good for throwing off timing on someone juggling you and to break pkthunder since you outprioritize it with dair.

 

[Zankoku]

Being able to situationally beat out a projectile attack of a mediocre below average character does not make it a good move.

 

[Blistering Speed]

The placement of the Chain in these lists saddens me.

 

[-Mars-]

I only see one.

And DownB doesn't seem to be included as one of her most viable kill moves, or even in the entire list, heh.

Nair is actually pretty good. It doesn't have fantastic KO power, but a fresh nair will kill before 150%.

 

[legion598]

f-air would be higher for me on the account that it freakin combos into Ftilts

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Transform deserves a teir of its own in all honesty. it's just so amazing.

 

[demodemo]

@wildfire

some comments on your list. utilt, although very gosu, is not more useful than aerials like neutral air and utilt, since these attacks can be used to kill, rack damage, disrupt, and approach. utilt, yes, a good damage racker, but i can't say the second best move she's got. definitely not better than bair.

some other disagreements, blaw blaw i'll address them if prompted to.

I hope we agree to disagree, if many others agree with you I will change the list to look more like yours.

yes, njzfinest is correct about usmash being the only move with enough knockback to be considered a kill move. That is in general though, but considering that sheik killing standards are around 150% (center of the stage) sheik's options are still pretty low, but expanded to things like nair, bair, dsmash, etc.

placement of chain is most likely to change, but right now it just seems like a predictable, punishable, high damage jab to me.

edit- the inclusion of transform was intended as a joke, but I would consider it should be between nair and dsmash.

 

[Zankoku]

Here's my list.

TOP
---
Forward Tilt
Up Smash
Transform

HIGH
---
Back Air
Neutral Air
Down Smash
Up Tilt

MIDDLE
---
Forward Air
Needles
Chain
Vanish
Jab
Down Tilt
Forward Throw
Up Air

LOW
---
Down Throw
Up Throw
Back Throw
Dash Attack

TERRIBLE
---
Forward Smash
Down Air

The workhorse TOP, strong option variants in HIGH, window dressing MIDDLE, suboptimal LOW, and mark of either poor or heavily situational play TERRIBLE.

 

[Blistering Speed]

I agree with everything in this list except U Smash placement, or is this list based soly on Shieks comparative metagame, because U Smash is her best (and pretty much only non decayed) kill move?

 

[demodemo]

yeah, i agree with blistering speed. usmash is important, but not that important. it's uses, although important, is still rarely used, while moves like bair and nair are multiple.

some other things i'd like your comment on, like the placement of forward throw. the throws are very much a like in terms of set up, but there are differences that make fthrow better than the rest, but to the point when it is a tier higher seems strange..

also vanish seems strangely high

the rest of the moves are small disagreements that can be discussed later.


edit-, ok i did some thinking, we will probably have multiple lists

perhaps a list for "importance" meaning how important each move is for sheik to win (eg usmash would be higher)

a list for "actual usefulness" how many times a move will appear in a match, (eg fair would be higher)

it will probably be too much work by then, but maybe stuff for sheik/zelda, since usmash would be much lower, and stuff like needles higher

edit2- bumped the chain

 

[Rawr_]

vanish is pretty situational for KO's, but there's a good variety of situations it can kill in, so it doesn't really seem like it's too high

 

[Zankoku]

It's top tier because ftilt combos into usmash and usmash KOs better than Zelda's usmash.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

vanish is pretty situational for KO's, but there's a good variety of situations it can kill in, so it doesn't really seem like it's too high

it also has invincibility in two places. of the attack. I try my best to abuse invicibility always. it's kinda my calling card... I'm made so many people hate Nayru's and Vanish

 

[demodemo]

usmash KO's better than zeldas usmash only with tipper, but i can probably count all of the tipper KO's i've gotten with my limbs. seriously, its not that easy to get a tipper unless you have a platform in bfield, or from a tilt lock. but ending a tilt lock at that percentage rarely results in a KO

i never get tippers, or even go for them. maybe i just suck, but it just seems really situational, i mean your opponent has to be RIGHT above you..

unless of course, you are getting at the distance sheik slides from the usmash, which is greater than zelda's and helps sheik a lot in the kill department. but imo, even considering that, zeldas usmash is too good lol

 

[Zankoku]

ftilt sets up into usmash given the correct decay. This isn't directly from a tilt lock, but it happens.

What's so hard to understand that I had to say this in my ftilt guide, Ryoko had to re-iterate it, and then had to point at it in the guide again, and then I have to say it AGAIN right now?

 

[demodemo]

lol i never read that thread, only read the first couple of bits of the first post. notice how i didn't post in the thread

i myself don't know how useful it is, since i stop ftilting around 80, and just go straight into aerials. i'll check it out..

 

[colored blind]

I'd agree with Ankoku's list, except for Jab and Dtilt being lower than Chain and Vanish. Dtilt is a lock (I'm pretty sure, anyway) on quite a few characters a low percents, at which point Ftilt lock can take over, and Sheik's Jab cancel is pretty good (Jab cancel > Dtilt/Ftilt/SH Aerial/Grab/general mixups).

Uh. Unless we're factoring in their recovery potential, in which case they should probably be higher.

Ugh. This reminds me that I need to improve my Zelda.

 

[-Mars-]

ftilt sets up into usmash given the correct decay. This isn't directly from a tilt lock, but it happens.

What's so hard to understand that I had to say this in my ftilt guide, Ryoko had to re-iterate it, and then had to point at it in the guide again, and then I have to say it AGAIN right now?

Partly my fault, I didn't understand what you two were getting at. I realize the value of the ftilt being decayed now. Seriously all of you Sheik players that don't understand what Ankoku is saying, check out his thread. You literally just need to use small ftilt combos like an ftilt into any aerial or utilt, then around kill percentages one ftilt OoS and you have a tipper KO. This alone made my Sheik twice as good as before. I mainly kill with the usmash now.......and that's definitely not a bad thing.

 

[Blistering Speed]

I perfectly understand the F Tilt to U Smash, I brought it up in a recent post saying we should all listen to Ryoko, I still don't believe that makes it better then B Air and also possibly D Smash.

 

[demodemo]

however, this brings up another problem

keeping an ftilt decayed at higher percentages is no easy task. it's not like you can fair>ftilt or aerial>ftilt anymore. this means you are dramatically changing the way you are playing. you must deliberately ftilt almost every time you are close. unless of course, the window for the right decay is big.

which sort of makes me realize that move tier lists are sort of silly, since everything depends on how you play..