Sheik stage help

HodgyDot

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
186
Location
Ft Worth Texas
#1
New player here, after a month of playing or so i decided to go with a Sheik main not really sure why just felt comfortable with it. So as my tech skill is advancing and such i feel the next logical step would be to talk Stage selection. I have only ever attended two events since playing but all my bracket matches have pretty much me just letting who ever i play pick the map. Was not a big deal to me im learning and i play random maps on Netplay ( how i practice normally and was shown melee) But MIOM podcast opened my eyes when talking about banning and counter picking maps and how important it is. M2K FD was the example they made,


TLDR: What are Sheiks top stages( i know this is match up dependent but there has to be a map Sheik plays well on that i would use for counter pick right? ), and is there a thread somewhere for stage selection i could not find it via search.


Edit: Sorry about run on sentencing and such.
 
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soap

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
7,230
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
#2
I actually feel like she has no bad stages. She moves well around them all.

With stage striking tho it is very easy to consistently get yourself to the same one or two stages everytime.

I generally end up at battlefield or Dreamland

you should spend some time getting very comfortable on at least two stages. By this I mean, learn how to combo ladder up the platforms very smoothly. Getting off and on the platforms and think about how to trap and zone theoretical situations.

pokemon stadium transformations are probably the worst place to have to fight spacies
 

HodgyDot

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
186
Location
Ft Worth Texas
#3
I actually feel like she has no bad stages. She moves well around them all.

With stage striking tho it is very easy to consistently get yourself to the same one or two stages everytime.

I generally end up at battlefield or Dreamland

you should spend some time getting very comfortable on at least two stages. By this I mean, learn how to combo ladder up the platforms very smoothly. Getting off and on the platforms and think about how to trap and zone theoretical situations.

pokemon stadium transformations are probably the worst place to have to fight spacies
I feel good on most maps with moving, im just learning how to follow up combos from under ledges with the wave landing on it and such though. FoD seems like a terrible map for Sheik though vs anyone, maybe its just me though.
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
975
#4
Worst stages to best:

vs spacies: FD/pokemon, yoshis, dreamland, battlefield, FoD

As for the others, i don't think it's as clear cut and i don't know so well. Personally i ban FD vs spacies but i always get taken to pokemon so meh

With Marth i've heard some say FD is great because it forces a ground heavy game which sheik is good at but at the same time it sucks because you will get juggled forever and have no space to run to
With peach i have no idea but i usually ban dreamland

vs CF i'm not so sure either. I know the good stages for sheik are battlefield and FoD but im not really sure how to rank the bad ones
 

HodgyDot

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
186
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#5
Worst stages to best:

vs spacies: FD/pokemon, yoshis, dreamland, battlefield, FoD

As for the others, i don't think it's as clear cut and i don't know so well. Personally i ban FD vs spacies but i always get taken to pokemon so meh

With Marth i've heard some say FD is great because it forces a ground heavy game which sheik is good at but at the same time it sucks because you will get juggled forever and have no space to run to
With peach i have no idea but i usually ban dreamland

vs CF i'm not so sure either. I know the good stages for sheik are battlefield and FoD but im not really sure how to rank the bad ones
So FoD is your top map vs spacies? Man that map seems awful for me.
 

moogle

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Messages
601
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Huntsville, AL
#6
My take on things (not guaranteed to all be correct):

vs Fox:
• If you need help vs a Fox who is "camping you" or better than you at zoning, pick Yoshi's/FoD (they don't have room to move around)
• If you need help vs a technical Fox who is difficult to deal with at close range, pick Dreamland/FD (you have more room to move around)
• If you want a boost in edgeguarding, pick Battlefield (they have fewer options offstage: can't ride up the wall with up-b at variable angles... can't up-b horizontally toward the edge usually)
• If you're not particularly good at maneuvering around platforms, pick FD
• Ban Pokemon Stadium probably
vs Falco: maybe the same counterpick ideas as vs Fox... I haven't figured it out yet
vs Sheik: your preference
vs Puff: ban FoD, pick Dreamland/FD/Pokemon (enough room to charge needles and to not get put offstage)
vs Marth: ban Yoshi's? pick Dreamland (here, Marth has more trouble applying pressure, putting you offstage, and killing)... not sure what 2nd best stage is
vs Peach: ban Dreamland? pick Battlefield? (you just need to outmaneuver Peach on the ground and on platforms)
vs Falcon: pick FoD/Yoshi's (easier for you to get in his face and to get him offstage... and FoD platforms mess up his aerials sometimes)
vs IC's: ban FD... not sure what stage to pick
vs most lower tiers: pick Dreamland (most lower tiers have a lot of trouble killing here... and Sheik has plenty of room to outmaneuver them)
 
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HodgyDot

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
186
Location
Ft Worth Texas
#7
My take on things (not guaranteed to all be correct):

vs Fox:
• If you need help vs a Fox who is "camping you" or better than you at zoning, pick Yoshi's/FoD (they don't have room to move around)
• If you need help vs a technical Fox who is difficult to deal with at close range, pick Dreamland/FD (you have more room to move around)
• If you want a boost in edgeguarding, pick Battlefield (they have fewer options offstage: can't ride up the wall with up-b at variable angles... can't up-b horizontally toward the edge usually)
• If you're not particularly good at maneuvering around platforms, pick FD
vs Falco: maybe the same counterpick ideas as vs Fox... I haven't figured it out yet
vs Sheik: your preference
vs Puff: ban FoD, pick Pokemon/FD/Dreamland (enough room to charge needles and to not get put offstage)
vs Marth: ban Yoshi's? pick Dreamland (here, Marth has more trouble applying pressure, putting you offstage, and killing)... not sure what 2nd best stage is
vs Peach: ban Dreamland? pick Battlefield? (you just need to outmaneuver Peach on the ground and on platforms)
vs Falcon: pick FoD/Yoshi's (easier for you to get in his face and to get him offstage... and FoD platforms mess up his aerials sometimes)
vs IC's: ban FD... not sure what stage to pick
vs most lower tiers: pick Dreamland (most lower tiers have a lot of trouble killing here... and Sheik has plenty of room to outmaneuver them)
I have such a hard time vs Marth on pretty much any map besides FD it seems to be my worst match up by far. But from what im gathering FoD and Dreamland are my top picks for mostly evertyhing
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
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Spiral Mountain
#8
My usual stage picks are:

Battlefield, YS, and FOD vs spacies --> Need to be able to lock them down and get them into air (them) vs ground (you) battles, and air vs air battles.

Battlefield, FD, and PS vs Puff --> Space on FD & PS gives you ways of running away from her, Battlefield does that too but also gives a top platform

Battlefield and DL64 vs Marth --> Same idea as vs Puff except you want the top platform more

FD, FOD, and YS vs Falcon --> His platform camping is annoying; small levels give you the best ways of shutting that down and FD has no platforms

FD, Battlefield, and YS vs Peach --> Levels are good for letting you keep advantage when you put pressure on her

Battlefield and FOD vs ICs --> One of them has a high top platform and the other breaks up their SoPo d-throw CG so avoiding the CG into wobble is actually possible

In Sheik dittos it's mostly what I'm feeling that day, or what I notice from the first match.

This isn't perfect by any means. It's based around what my strengths are partially too, though I'd like to eventually be comfortable on every level in every matchup. I think Sheik's capable of that.



Against low & mid tiers I have some general rules. It's a bit less refined. But here goes:

DEFENSIVELY

If their main way of winning is by landing heavy side-hitting aerials --> FD, PS --> Ganondorf, Zelda, etc.

If their main way of winning involves a chain grab --> FOD, YS --> Mario, Doc, Mr. Game & Watch, etc.

If their main way of winning involves hitting big ground attacks --> FD, BF, DL64 --> Samus, Luigi, etc.

If their main way of winning is by juggling me with launching moves into an edgeguard --> BF, DL64 --> Yoshi, DK, etc.

OFFENSIVELY

If Sheik can chain grab their character then FD is an option.

If doesn't move much when they jump and they have poor ground mobility then FD and PS are options.

If their character is susceptible to d-throw --> uair (even if they DI away) then FD is an option.

If their character is weak in an air-to-air battle but strong on the ground then BF, PS, and DL64 are options.
 
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HodgyDot

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
186
Location
Ft Worth Texas
#9
My usual stage picks are:

Battlefield, YS, and FOD vs spacies --> Need to be able to lock them down and get them into air (them) vs ground (you) battles, and air vs air battles.

Battlefield, FD, and PS vs Puff --> Space on FD & PS gives you ways of running away from her, Battlefield does that too but also gives a top platform

Battlefield and DL64 vs Marth --> Same idea as vs Puff except you want the top platform more

FD, FOD, and YS vs Falcon --> His platform camping is annoying; small levels give you the best ways of shutting that down and FD has no platforms

FD, Battlefield, and YS vs Peach --> Levels are good for letting you keep advantage when you put pressure on her

Battlefield and FOD vs ICs --> One of them has a high top platform and the other breaks up their SoPo d-throw CG so avoiding the CG into wobble is actually possible

In Sheik dittos it's mostly what I'm feeling that day, or what I notice from the first match.

This isn't perfect by any means. It's based around what my strengths are partially too, though I'd like to eventually be comfortable on every level in every matchup. I think Sheik's capable of that.



Against low & mid tiers I have some general rules. It's a bit less refined. But here goes:

DEFENSIVELY

If their main way of winning is by landing heavy side-hitting aerials --> FD, PS --> Ganondorf, Zelda, etc.

If their main way of winning involves a chain grab --> FOD, YS --> Mario, Doc, Mr. Game & Watch, etc.

If their main way of winning involves hitting big ground attacks --> FD, BF, DL64 --> Samus, Luigi, etc.

If their main way of winning is by juggling me with launching moves into an edgeguard --> BF, DL64 --> Yoshi, DK, etc.

OFFENSIVELY

If Sheik can chain grab their character then FD is an option.

If doesn't move much when they jump and they have poor ground mobility then FD and PS are options.

If their character is susceptible to d-throw --> uair (even if they DI away) then FD is an option.

If their character is weak in an air-to-air battle but strong on the ground then BF, PS, and DL64 are options.

That is a great guideline for all things Sheik. Thanks for the reply man, i cant help but notice you mentioned Sheik v Marth as wanting top platform, would that not put me in a bad spot vs a solid marth? I thought i needed to control middle ground in that match up.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
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Spiral Mountain
#10
You can kill vertically so it doesn't offer him that great of an escape from your combos. In contrast, for his perspective, a top platform is simply another place with a set of options you can choose to interact with when you're coming down from a juggle. Marth on principle prefers it when engagements vs an opponent's free fall are simple -- stages that lack top platforms tend to be ideal for him.
 

HodgyDot

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Feb 22, 2014
Messages
186
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#11
You can kill vertically so it doesn't offer him that great of an escape from your combos. In contrast, for his perspective, a top platform is simply another place with a set of options you can choose to interact with when you're coming down from a juggle. Marth on principle prefers it when engagements vs an opponent's free fall are simple -- stages that lack top platforms tend to be ideal for him.
Alright i guess that makes sense, i never really looked at the platforms as an obstacle for Marth juggles i thought it helped, i must be just tech rolling like an idiot.
 
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