Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

Do you think shantae can make it?

  • Yes, as a fighter

  • Yes, as a assist trophy

  • No, not as a assist trophy

  • No, not at all


Results are only viewable after voting.

perfectchaos83

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The reason I don't think she's an assist trophy is I think they kinda already showed off the slew of items, Pokemon (unrelated but how do you add the accent?) an ATs already that they want to. If I remember correctly fro Smash 4's directs they showed off new ATs and Pokemon in one direct and didnt show off more in any directs unless they were in one of the Smash blogs of the day right?
They definitly revealed new assists on the Miiverse. Ashley was one of them.
 

ProtoTwi

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yes but that was a first party, have they eve revealed a third party thing in the more mundane manner of the miiverse posts in Smash 4?
If Shantae was just an AT I could see her being revealed in a daily post, as we already had the big hype indies in smash moment with SK.
 
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Haiku: Cristina Vee will ♥marry♥ me in SMASH for Shantae & Risky♥Boots! #Haiku #GODWILLS #NeverGiveUp #RaheemXCristinaVee #Shantae4SmashUltimate #RiskyBoots4SmashUltimate #RET2GO P.S: I promise to all of y'all that Cristina Valenzuela aka Cristina Vee shall get married to me, soon after Shantae and Risky Boots are officially confirmed in SMASH BROS. ULTIMATE!!



Oh, Yellowlord Yellowlord ! I'm still waiting (PATIENTLY) for my name to finally be added on this OP, because I'm working extremely hard for Shantae & Risky Boots finally to be confirmed as New Female Comer of being Full-Playable Fighters!
Yo could you like calm down please?

Also Cristina has a boyfriend, I don’t think she’s going to leave him.
 

DoctorSanity

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Hey yo, I remember you from previous support threads. If you don't mind sharing, I am curious to hear your reasons for no longer being much of a Shantae fan.
It really is just two things, but I think I'll put it under a spoiler because i expect it to be long. Also at the end I talk about how her negatives ironically make her more likely for Smash:

I just wanna give a warning cause this does dive into heavy topics so if you're not good with pedophilia and fetishization it might not be a good idea to read:
It's actually kind of funny, because it happened out of this thread. I thought discussion was a little low and thought a new discussion might be a nice change of pace. I thought maybe we should talk about our problems with the series, and aspects that we want to be improved in future entries in the Shantae series. But unfortunately I found one that was just. Too much for me:

1. Wayforward interprets Shantae as only being just "about 16" in age. Link to the tweet

Simply put, I have dealt with so many people who are sexually into underage characters on the internet that I think it's deeply affected me. Anything that even looks like it might go in that direction makes me extremely anxious and sometimes explicitly nauseous, on the verge of throwing up numerous times if it goes there. Many content creators I followed that turned out to be pedophiles, and even close and important friends to me that blocked me on social media after I noted the ages of characters they put in nsfw situations piled up. It's way too sensitive of a topic to me.

Wayforward very clearly finds Shantae attractive physically, and tends to put her in pinup artwork or sexually suggestive scenarios. I did have problems (for reasons I'll explain later in this post) but it was at least mildly tolerable. To me her being 16 and underage is way too far over the line, and I really can't get past that. I draw a strict line in the sand for this type of stuff, because when it wasn't it deeply hurt me and actual underage teens.

So it's basically out of necessity I have to stop following Shantae, it hurts enough because Shantae was my very first indie game on the old dsi shop and I don't want to dislike her series, but until Wayforward straightens themselves out I just don't want to be hurt again or anyone else to be hurt.

Plus because the games don't make this obvious it's skeevy on Wayforward's part, especially because they should know by now how much porn people online draw of Shantae because of her design and characteristics.

2. I'm not into Shantae's character design anymore because it plays into the "Exotic women are sexy" trope

I've become a lot more aware of sexualization in games and I just couldn't help but be aware of how Shantae falls in line with it. She alongside the Gerudo from LOZ are characters that are inspired by middle eastern culture, but don't dress even slightly like people from there for the sake to be more attractive. I don't have to make up a good example because the people over at lab-zero/indivisible already showed an example of a non-sexualized middle eastern inspired character vs. Shantae:
BUT I also still talked to my artist friend about how I would redesign Shantae and they were very gracious to draw the example for me of a Shantae that dresses closer to how actual middle eastern people dress to adjust to the heat and sun of where they live:
Shantae drawn by god Cal.png
Again part of why this is so much worse to me is because Wayforward interprets her as about 16 years old (Also. What does "About 16" mean. Does that seriously mean 15 is possible?) I did not LIKE her design but it wasn't "completely push me away from the series" bad. I thought it was a problem that as long as I was aware of and was critical of I could still enjoy the rest of the game. It's a problem that's magnified to deeply bad levels to me cause of the age thing.

Why I think the "exotic beauty" is a problem is because middle eastern women in video games 99% of the time have Shantae's belly dancer look and it feels fetishistic at best, racist at worst. There aren't enough counterexamples to make it a one time thing unfortunately. The only other example of middle eastern culture we tend to get is. Call of Duty. And, well... y eah.

But this is all ironic because it only makes her chances for Smash more likely because Nintendo loves fetishizing darker skinned women too.

I'm not going to debate with anyone, because I believe this is just fact. I'm just going to link this actual interview of the developers behind Splatoon 2 saying that they designed the Octolings (who were introduced and marketed with darker skin consistently) as differentiating from the tomboyish Inklings with "sexy" (the same interview confirms that octolings are 14-16 years old btw):
https://www.reddit.com/r/splatoon/comments/911jwz/splatoon_2_1st_anniversary_interview_with_the/


This is why I don't want the Octolings as echoes of the inklings too btw
These are actual nintendo developers going "we wanted to make these young teen characters sexy" for the group that also coincidentally seem to have darker skin as well. I didn't even mention how Marina looks wildly different compared to Callie, Marie, and Pearl in terms of sex appeal. The way splatoon treats light skinned characters vs darker skinned characters is truly night and day.

And this isn't a one time thing too with Nintendo, if you look at most of Nintendo's history at darker skinned woman they will either be whitewashed (Daisy, Tetra in the SAME GAME she was introduced) or sexualized (Twintelle, the Octolings, Marina, The Gerudo, that rock gym leader from the sun and moon games, etc.) Again, fetishization isn't just a one time thing, it's a consistency. It's doing the same thing over for a group.

It's not perfect (Elma from xenoblade X is a counterpoint) but the consistency needs to be recognized. Nintendo loves sexualizing darker skinned women, and Shantae being a darker skinned woman they can oogle over literally puts her over and above tons of other reps. Because they don't have that type of character yet in Smash. Even before Bayonetta was annoucned the argument that Shantae was too provocative didn't hold water simply for the reason that Nintendo still doesn't care if they sexualize darker skinned women, even if they're underage.

So until Wayforward goes "We were wrong Shantae is of age" or they change her design to be more appropriate for her age (which would still mean all the other games I can't play) then I really can't help but struggle to be a fan of Shantae anymore. I understand if this doesn't affect people here being fans of Shantae, as my main issue stems from a tweet and it isn't pointed out in the games, but I hope I made you understand my perspective.

Oh and also because it's kind of buried in there and I just wanted to show it here's that redesign of Shantae I talked about:
Shantae drawn by god Cal.png
 

Shinuto

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I mean...who cares? its a fictional character.

It really is just two things, but I think I'll put it under a spoiler because i expect it to be long. Also at the end I talk about how her negatives ironically make her more likely for Smash:

I just wanna give a warning cause this does dive into heavy topics so if you're not good with pedophilia and fetishization it might not be a good idea to read:
It's actually kind of funny, because it happened out of this thread. I thought discussion was a little low and thought a new discussion might be a nice change of pace. I thought maybe we should talk about our problems with the series, and aspects that we want to be improved in future entries in the Shantae series. But unfortunately I found one that was just. Too much for me:

1. Wayforward interprets Shantae as only being just "about 16" in age. Link to the tweet

Simply put, I have dealt with so many people who are sexually into underage characters on the internet that I think it's deeply affected me. Anything that even looks like it might go in that direction makes me extremely anxious and sometimes explicitly nauseous, on the verge of throwing up numerous times if it goes there. Many content creators I followed that turned out to be pedophiles, and even close and important friends to me that blocked me on social media after I noted the ages of characters they put in nsfw situations piled up. It's way too sensitive of a topic to me.

Wayforward very clearly finds Shantae attractive physically, and tends to put her in pinup artwork or sexually suggestive scenarios. I did have problems (for reasons I'll explain later in this post) but it was at least mildly tolerable. To me her being 16 and underage is way too far over the line, and I really can't get past that. I draw a strict line in the sand for this type of stuff, because when it wasn't it deeply hurt me and actual underage teens.

So it's basically out of necessity I have to stop following Shantae, it hurts enough because Shantae was my very first indie game on the old dsi shop and I don't want to dislike her series, but until Wayforward straightens themselves out I just don't want to be hurt again or anyone else to be hurt.

Plus because the games don't make this obvious it's skeevy on Wayforward's part, especially because they should know by now how much porn people online draw of Shantae because of her design and characteristics.

2. I'm not into Shantae's character design anymore because it plays into the "Exotic women are sexy" trope

I've become a lot more aware of sexualization in games and I just couldn't help but be aware of how Shantae falls in line with it. She alongside the Gerudo from LOZ are characters that are inspired by middle eastern culture, but don't dress even slightly like people from there for the sake to be more attractive. I don't have to make up a good example because the people over at lab-zero/indivisible already showed an example of a non-sexualized middle eastern inspired character vs. Shantae:
BUT I also still talked to my artist friend about how I would redesign Shantae and they were very gracious to draw the example for me of a Shantae that dresses closer to how actual middle eastern people dress to adjust to the heat and sun of where they live:
Again part of why this is so much worse to me is because Wayforward interprets her as about 16 years old (Also. What does "About 16" mean. Does that seriously mean 15 is possible?) I did not LIKE her design but it wasn't "completely push me away from the series" bad. I thought it was a problem that as long as I was aware of and was critical of I could still enjoy the rest of the game. It's a problem that's magnified to deeply bad levels to me cause of the age thing.

Why I think the "exotic beauty" is a problem is because middle eastern women in video games 99% of the time have Shantae's belly dancer look and it feels fetishistic at best, racist at worst. There aren't enough counterexamples to make it a one time thing unfortunately. The only other example of middle eastern culture we tend to get is. Call of Duty. And, well... y eah.

But this is all ironic because it only makes her chances for Smash more likely because Nintendo loves fetishizing darker skinned women too.

I'm not going to debate with anyone, because I believe this is just fact. I'm just going to link this actual interview of the developers behind Splatoon 2 saying that they designed the Octolings (who were introduced and marketed with darker skin consistently) as differentiating from the tomboyish Inklings with "sexy" (the same interview confirms that octolings are 14-16 years old btw):
https://www.reddit.com/r/splatoon/comments/911jwz/splatoon_2_1st_anniversary_interview_with_the/


This is why I don't want the Octolings as echoes of the inklings too btw
These are actual nintendo developers going "we wanted to make these young teen characters sexy" for the group that also coincidentally seem to have darker skin as well. I didn't even mention how Marina looks wildly different compared to Callie, Marie, and Pearl in terms of sex appeal. The way splatoon treats light skinned characters vs darker skinned characters is truly night and day.

And this isn't a one time thing too with Nintendo, if you look at most of Nintendo's history at darker skinned woman they will either be whitewashed (Daisy, Tetra in the SAME GAME she was introduced) or sexualized (Twintelle, the Octolings, Marina, The Gerudo, that rock gym leader from the sun and moon games, etc.) Again, fetishization isn't just a one time thing, it's a consistency. It's doing the same thing over for a group.

It's not perfect (Elma from xenoblade X is a counterpoint) but the consistency needs to be recognized. Nintendo loves sexualizing darker skinned women, and Shantae being a darker skinned woman they can oogle over literally puts her over and above tons of other reps. Because they don't have that type of character yet in Smash. Even before Bayonetta was annoucned the argument that Shantae was too provocative didn't hold water simply for the reason that Nintendo still doesn't care if they sexualize darker skinned women, even if they're underage.

So until Wayforward goes "We were wrong Shantae is of age" or they change her design to be more appropriate for her age (which would still mean all the other games I can't play) then I really can't help but struggle to be a fan of Shantae anymore. I understand if this doesn't affect people here being fans of Shantae, as my main issue stems from a tweet and it isn't pointed out in the games, but I hope I made you understand my perspective.
You do realize there are real life belly dancers in numerous countries including the US that are at and BELOW Shantae's age that wear similar garbs proudly.

* Ah **** I forgot to edit this into my previous post. sorry.
 

DoctorSanity

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I mean...who cares? its a fictional character.
Japan has literally been described as having a "pedophile epidemic" because they have the same opinion and don't draw the line at not sexualizing underage characters in media? Media validates people and if it validates pedophiles how is that good fiction?
You do realize there are real life belly dancers in numerous countries including the US that are at and BELOW Shantae's age that wear similar garbs proudly.
Yeah but not walking out and about in the hot desert sun proudly
 
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Shinuto

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Japan has literally been described as having a "pedophile epidemic" because they have the same opinion and don't draw the line at not sexualizing underage characters in media? Media validates people and if it validates pedophiles how is that good fiction?

Yeah but not walking out and about in the hot desert sun proudly
It doesnt validate ****, I dont want this thread to go offtopic so Im not gonna continue this much but unless proof is shown of someone actually taking advantage of a real minor, either indirectly through the possession of photos are just straight up abusing the person themselves, I dont care what someone does in their own time to a ******** drawing.

Also 16 is legal in many places around the world so....
 
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DoctorSanity

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Okay wow that is an immediate block

I didn't think I'd have to say "creating content depicting minors in sexually provocative contexts, even fictional, makes you a morally rephrensible human being that can deeply hurt children" but here we are
 

Shinuto

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Okay wow that is an immediate block

I didn't think I'd have to say "creating content depicting minors in sexually provocative contexts, even fictional, makes you a morally rephrensible human being that can deeply hurt children" but here we are
This basically arresting someone for thinking about wanting to murder someone even if they never act it out or show evidence of planning to. I'd say that says some pretty negative things about YOUR viewpoint as a person. get out of this thread, You're a judgemental POS, and you clearly dont want to be a part of it anymore cause of stupid reasons

plus Shantae's design was by Matt Bozon's wife.
 
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Legendary Spirit Tamer

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A few things;

Stop fighting.

We really don't care what people have for kinks. Do not kinkshame. It is rude and disrespectful.

We do not condone certain kinks ourselves, of course. Don't pretend us telling you guys to not kinkshame means we approve of a specific kink.

Finally, do not talk about kinks. They are off topic and vastly inappropriate. I will warning/infract anything beyond this post as off-topic if it relates to that. Enough.


(We means Smashboards as a whole)
 

Shinuto

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A few things;

Stop fighting.

We really don't care what people have for kinks. Do not kinkshame. It is rude and disrespectful.

We do not condone certain kinks ourselves, of course. Don't pretend us telling you guys to not kinkshame means we approve of a specific kink.

Finally, do not talk about kinks. They are off topic and vastly inappropriate. I will warning/infract anything beyond this post as off-topic if it relates to that. Enough.


(We means Smashboards as a whole)
Sorry I just flew off the handle after being insulted like that. My bad.
 

BigShad

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Okay, getting back on topic, let's see about a loaded question:
If Smash-U ends up having a story mode or Smash Run (and also assuming Shantae's in), do you think there's a chance for enemies from her games or even other WayForward games (even including games that had their involvement)? If so, what would you like to see, and how do you think would they translate to this new mode?
 

Shinuto

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Okay, getting back on topic, let's see about a loaded question:
If Smash-U ends up having a story mode or Smash Run (and also assuming Shantae's in), do you think there's a chance for enemies from her games or even other WayForward games (even including games that had their involvement)? If so, what would you like to see, and how do you think would they translate to this new mode?
Maybe. It would certainly be nice.
 

ProtoTwi

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Okay, getting back on topic, let's see about a loaded question:
If Smash-U ends up having a story mode or Smash Run (and also assuming Shantae's in), do you think there's a chance for enemies from her games or even other WayForward games (even including games that had their involvement)? If so, what would you like to see, and how do you think would they translate to this new mode?
Tinkerbats
is this even debatable?
 

Shinuto

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So when should we expect a Shantae reveal if it DOES happen and she's playable, we got that supposed September Indie direct, and likely we'll get one more Smash direct or smash info in a direct in November likely.
 

zferolie

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So when should we expect a Shantae reveal if it DOES happen and she's playable, we got that supposed September Indie direct, and likely we'll get one more Smash direct or smash info in a direct in November likely.
If Shantae is in, during a Indie direct would be the best and most fitting way to announce her. it would be an awesome way to close out the direct, sudden cut to a smash trailer and its either Island Delfino, or Gerudo village(as she dresses like a Gerudo a bit and Din in Oracle of seasons looked a lot like shantae.
 
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Not sure if they would announce Shantae (or any indie character) in an Indie Direct.

The point of an Indie Direct is to advertise upcoming indie games, and sticking a Smash announcement to that would completely overshadow the rest of the Direct.
 

ProtoTwi

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Not sure if they would announce Shantae (or any indie character) in an Indie Direct.

The point of an Indie Direct is to advertise upcoming indie games, and sticking a Smash announcement to that would completely overshadow the rest of the Direct.
But on the other hand, by announcing an Indie fighter, it would further cement Nintendo as the Indie platform by showing their dedication to Indie devs.
 

ProtoTwi

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I think Because SK is an AT, lots of people are gonna be watching this potential Indie Direct to see if anything Smash happens,
This would be, (i believe) the first time an indie direct happen in the height of Smash hype.

If they are gonna do it, it would be at the end as Nintendo's favorite "one more thing"
 

BigShad

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I want to say I LOVE how much discussion on here as exploded again ever since Shovel Knight was revealed as an Assist Trophy.
I'm honestly shocked that Sakurai gave even the time of day to an indie (then again, one was a regular Trophy in Sm4sh), still this means that indies are at least kind of in the spotlight now.
 

Staarih

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If Shantae does make the cut, would Risky Boots be the assist trophy or any of Shantae's friends?
Risky would be a good choice, but I think I'd go with Rottytops, she seems to be the most popular out of Shantae's friends (the second after Shantae to get a figure of her own, for example). She could either throw her head around or do some other zombie shenanigans.

Also, MrBozon seems to be having fun with Pokemon Go on his twitter. Walking in on an Abra on the toilet and everything.
Hehe, I've been lowkey following Matt's twitter to see if he comments anything regarding Shantae and Smash. Some people have been asking him about it already. After us seeing Shovel Knight, I think he'd be more open to say something, especially if Shantae wasn't in Smash. I'm all for quick (dis)confirmations. But if all remains quiet, the odds look better, I guess.
 

conTAgi0n

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Man, if Shantae would get a cinematic trailer of this quality I'd be over the moon!

But after seeing Shovel Knight get the AT-treatment, I have the feeling this could go either way. They've clearly used the info they've gathered from the ballot, so it kind of depends on the reason why Shovel Knight became an Assist Trophy. Is it because his moveset just wouldn't be interesting, or is it because they just want indies to be nothing more than AT's?
At least we know indies aren't immediately pushed to the side.

I feel like I can completely trust the Smash devs with which style they'd pick for Shantae. I know how meticulous and respectful these guys are towards each character and series. If anything I'm more curious how cute her animal transormations would look in 3D (not to forget a CG trailer).

All I know for sure is that the wait is going to be very painful and it's either going to end in bliss or heartbreak. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but man.... it's harder than I thought.

Fingers crossed.
There are a lot of possible explanations Shovel Knight could have gotten Assist Trophy status, so it's hard to evaluate exactly what it means. Off the top of my head, some possible explanations:
  • One possibility that will appeal to desperate Waluigi fans is that they are planning to have a DLC upgrade for certain Assist Trophies into playable characters. So, some popular characters currently revealed as ATs (including SK) have really made it as playable fighters, but are waiting for that piece of news to be revealed.
  • As you mentioned, they may have thought that indie characters such as Shovel Knight were worthy of AT representation, but do not have the star power to earn spots on the roster. The darkest scenario, which is still quite plausible, is that Shantae and Shovel Knight were competing just for an Assist Trophy slot, and they decided to go with Shovel Knight instead.
  • You suggested they may have found Shovel Knight lacking in moveset potential, but I cannot imagine this to be the case. Even if he falls short of Shantae in that regard, he has more than enough for a playable fighter. Even if he didn't, Sakurai can make up the difference easily if he decides a character should be in.
  • A further possibility, if I can be indulged in some wishful thinking, is that they wanted to represent both SK and Shantae in Ultimate, but felt two slots for indies was pushing it, and so gave the honor to just one of the characters (Shantae) while making the other (SK) an AT instead. This is very plausible as well.

I do think that while this Direct was a very very very positive sign for Shantae, we shouldn't let ourselves get too carried away. She is definitely not a shoo-in, despite how positive the latest developments may seem.

It really is just two things, but I think I'll put it under a spoiler because i expect it to be long. Also at the end I talk about how her negatives ironically make her more likely for Smash:

I just wanna give a warning cause this does dive into heavy topics so if you're not good with pedophilia and fetishization it might not be a good idea to read:
It's actually kind of funny, because it happened out of this thread. I thought discussion was a little low and thought a new discussion might be a nice change of pace. I thought maybe we should talk about our problems with the series, and aspects that we want to be improved in future entries in the Shantae series. But unfortunately I found one that was just. Too much for me:

1. Wayforward interprets Shantae as only being just "about 16" in age. Link to the tweet

Simply put, I have dealt with so many people who are sexually into underage characters on the internet that I think it's deeply affected me. Anything that even looks like it might go in that direction makes me extremely anxious and sometimes explicitly nauseous, on the verge of throwing up numerous times if it goes there. Many content creators I followed that turned out to be pedophiles, and even close and important friends to me that blocked me on social media after I noted the ages of characters they put in nsfw situations piled up. It's way too sensitive of a topic to me.

Wayforward very clearly finds Shantae attractive physically, and tends to put her in pinup artwork or sexually suggestive scenarios. I did have problems (for reasons I'll explain later in this post) but it was at least mildly tolerable. To me her being 16 and underage is way too far over the line, and I really can't get past that. I draw a strict line in the sand for this type of stuff, because when it wasn't it deeply hurt me and actual underage teens.

So it's basically out of necessity I have to stop following Shantae, it hurts enough because Shantae was my very first indie game on the old dsi shop and I don't want to dislike her series, but until Wayforward straightens themselves out I just don't want to be hurt again or anyone else to be hurt.

Plus because the games don't make this obvious it's skeevy on Wayforward's part, especially because they should know by now how much porn people online draw of Shantae because of her design and characteristics.

2. I'm not into Shantae's character design anymore because it plays into the "Exotic women are sexy" trope

I've become a lot more aware of sexualization in games and I just couldn't help but be aware of how Shantae falls in line with it. She alongside the Gerudo from LOZ are characters that are inspired by middle eastern culture, but don't dress even slightly like people from there for the sake to be more attractive. I don't have to make up a good example because the people over at lab-zero/indivisible already showed an example of a non-sexualized middle eastern inspired character vs. Shantae:
BUT I also still talked to my artist friend about how I would redesign Shantae and they were very gracious to draw the example for me of a Shantae that dresses closer to how actual middle eastern people dress to adjust to the heat and sun of where they live:
Again part of why this is so much worse to me is because Wayforward interprets her as about 16 years old (Also. What does "About 16" mean. Does that seriously mean 15 is possible?) I did not LIKE her design but it wasn't "completely push me away from the series" bad. I thought it was a problem that as long as I was aware of and was critical of I could still enjoy the rest of the game. It's a problem that's magnified to deeply bad levels to me cause of the age thing.

Why I think the "exotic beauty" is a problem is because middle eastern women in video games 99% of the time have Shantae's belly dancer look and it feels fetishistic at best, racist at worst. There aren't enough counterexamples to make it a one time thing unfortunately. The only other example of middle eastern culture we tend to get is. Call of Duty. And, well... y eah.

But this is all ironic because it only makes her chances for Smash more likely because Nintendo loves fetishizing darker skinned women too.

I'm not going to debate with anyone, because I believe this is just fact. I'm just going to link this actual interview of the developers behind Splatoon 2 saying that they designed the Octolings (who were introduced and marketed with darker skin consistently) as differentiating from the tomboyish Inklings with "sexy" (the same interview confirms that octolings are 14-16 years old btw):
https://www.reddit.com/r/splatoon/comments/911jwz/splatoon_2_1st_anniversary_interview_with_the/


This is why I don't want the Octolings as echoes of the inklings too btw
These are actual nintendo developers going "we wanted to make these young teen characters sexy" for the group that also coincidentally seem to have darker skin as well. I didn't even mention how Marina looks wildly different compared to Callie, Marie, and Pearl in terms of sex appeal. The way splatoon treats light skinned characters vs darker skinned characters is truly night and day.

And this isn't a one time thing too with Nintendo, if you look at most of Nintendo's history at darker skinned woman they will either be whitewashed (Daisy, Tetra in the SAME GAME she was introduced) or sexualized (Twintelle, the Octolings, Marina, The Gerudo, that rock gym leader from the sun and moon games, etc.) Again, fetishization isn't just a one time thing, it's a consistency. It's doing the same thing over for a group.

It's not perfect (Elma from xenoblade X is a counterpoint) but the consistency needs to be recognized. Nintendo loves sexualizing darker skinned women, and Shantae being a darker skinned woman they can oogle over literally puts her over and above tons of other reps. Because they don't have that type of character yet in Smash. Even before Bayonetta was annoucned the argument that Shantae was too provocative didn't hold water simply for the reason that Nintendo still doesn't care if they sexualize darker skinned women, even if they're underage.

So until Wayforward goes "We were wrong Shantae is of age" or they change her design to be more appropriate for her age (which would still mean all the other games I can't play) then I really can't help but struggle to be a fan of Shantae anymore. I understand if this doesn't affect people here being fans of Shantae, as my main issue stems from a tweet and it isn't pointed out in the games, but I hope I made you understand my perspective.

Oh and also because it's kind of buried in there and I just wanted to show it here's that redesign of Shantae I talked about:
Thank you for sharing, I definitely respect where you are coming from. Given the warning above, I will respond in a PM, but I can at least say here that this Shantae re-design you shared (or costume might be the more accurate description) is pretty badass:

View attachment 156807
 
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But on the other hand, by announcing an Indie fighter, it would further cement Nintendo as the Indie platform by showing their dedication to Indie devs.
Maybe, but an Indie Direct is supposed to advertise upcoming Indie games, and that should take priority.

While revealing an indie character in Smash would thematically fit, it’s still a Triple A game being showcased in a presentation meant for the little guys. And even with the close relationships indie companies, I’d imagine they would be pretty annoyed at that.
 

WingedSupernova

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Risky would be a good choice, but I think I'd go with Rottytops, she seems to be the most popular out of Shantae's friends (the second after Shantae to get a figure of her own, for example). She could either throw her head around or do some other zombie shenanigans.


Hehe, I've been lowkey following Matt's twitter to see if he comments anything regarding Shantae and Smash. Some people have been asking him about it already. After us seeing Shovel Knight, I think he'd be more open to say something, especially if Shantae wasn't in Smash. I'm all for quick (dis)confirmations. But if all remains quiet, the odds look better, I guess.
The interesting part about that is that every comment about Smash no matter how minute it may be never has any like or comment from Matt on it. I love the mystery.
 

Shinuto

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There are a lot of possible explanations Shovel Knight could have gotten Assist Trophy status, so it's hard to evaluate exactly what it means. Off the top of my head, some possible explanations:
  • One possibility that will appeal to desperate Waluigi fans is that they are planning to have a DLC upgrade for certain Assist Trophies into playable characters. So, some popular characters currently revealed as ATs (including SK) have really made it as playable fighters, but are waiting for that piece of news to be revealed.
  • As you mentioned, they may have thought that indie characters such as Shovel Knight were worthy of AT representation, but do not have the star power to earn spots on the roster. The darkest scenario, which is still quite plausible, is that Shantae and Shovel Knight were competing just for an Assist Trophy slot, and they decided to go with Shovel Knight instead.
  • You suggested they may have found Shovel Knight lacking in moveset potential, but I cannot imagine this to be the case. Even if he falls short of Shantae in that regard, he has more than enough for a playable fighter. Even if he didn't, Sakurai can make up the difference easily if he decides a character should be in.
  • A further possibility, if I can be indulged in some wishful thinking, is that they wanted to represent both SK and Shantae in Ultimate, but felt two slots for indies was pushing it, and so gave the honor to just one of the characters (Shantae) while making the other (SK) an AT instead. This is very plausible as well.

I do think that while this Direct was a very very very positive sign for Shantae, we shouldn't let ourselves get too carried away. She is definitely not a shoo-in, despite how positive the latest developments may seem.



Thank you for sharing, I definitely respect where you are coming from. Given the warning above, I will respond in a PM, but I can at least say here that this Shantae re-design you shared (or costume might be the more accurate description) is pretty badass:

View attachment 156807
man Contagion you're attitude is what I aspire to attain. Polite, calm, reserved and intelligent.

Also if Shantae DOES get in, should she have jammies alt and Nega Shantae?
 
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Staarih

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Also if Shantae DOES get in, should she have jammies alt and Nega Shantae?
Yes. And yes.

But it'll likely be more like jammies and/or Nega Shantae -inspired alts rather than them being the actual thing. Shantae in her jammies has her hair down, which will likely be kept up in Smash as she uses it to attack. And Nega Shantae I could see just as a color option rather than the actual character (though it's essentially the same lol). But who knows.
I'm happy with color variations based on Risky and Shantae's friends.
 
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