SHADing pt.2: ground (gasp) tactics discussion

[Veril]

SHADing can lead into a perfect shield. This works vs. characters without longlasting hitboxes (GW). Constant attacks can also get past this, however, since most of them allow for SDI to rest... this isn't really a bad thing.

Most moves that can pose a problem for this technique do not cause enough damage to be a major threat. Thus, while situational, I personally really like this as a KO setup.

Glick brought up the issue of applicability of the research I've been doing. A way I have been getting the perfect shield required for some of my rest counters is:


1. They use an attack that is not compatible with my perfect shield combo. You will perfect shield and then should either pound or retreat with an f-air or SHAD away. (input plz!)

2. They try for a dash grab. Spotdodge. If the lag is high enough you may be able to rest, pound, grab them, whatever.

3. They use an attack that is compatible and are spaced correctly. Perfect shield > rest FTW.

4. They use a multi-hit attack... Perfect shielding the first hit can set you up for rest.

5. They predict this tactic and charge a move or delay slightly. Roll behind them or away... roll rest if possible.

6. They use a retreating aerial. Messes up the plan, but no dmg.

7. They are GW: don't try this.

If they do (most) attacks (even most jabs), you can perfect shield automatically due to Brawls ******** system. ******** and awesome.

I have other ideas but have to pack for a flight tomorrow morning. Wonder how well Kenyon College kids brawl...

[EDIT]Kenyon got owned

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

sorry, but
"bad cop"
are you ****ting me? lol, the "air-dodge cancel" was classified as unknown to us because we didn't get a vid, and none of us truely understood it. It was most likely that if you air-dodge to the ground, you can reduce lag from a fall or a fast fall. I wouldn't bother applicating this into this tech. Not that this is a bad idea, but serously; thats like an L-Cancel, and that obvously does not work. Shure, the animation looks different when you buffer into the ground with an air-dodge, but that doesnt mean it cancels a few frames of lag. Trying to do this and sheilding may help gain frames.
Now for the "good cop"
Well, I suggest holding sheild in the air, because if you want to buffer your sheild out right after landing, this works better than "baiting" which takes too long, and is almost pointless. The sheild being held at anytime in the air until landing on the ground is the best way to do what you are trying to get at.
"bad cop" once again.....
And for perfect sheild to rest? no. It hasn't hepled me, and you are better off just hopping into the attack with an air-dodge. You will just get punished if you do this. At the least a spot dodge will do better, because you will recover faster, and it is easier to do. the timing for an instant perfect sheild is too much to ask for in the middle of a battle.
This subject needs a lot of disscussion before it can be applicated.

 

[Veril]

sorry, but
"bad cop"
are you ****ting me? lol, the "air-dodge cancel" was classified as unknown to us because we didn't get a vid, and none of us truely understood it

Now for the "good cop"
Well, I suggest holding sheild in the air, because if you want to buffer your sheild out right after landing, this works better than "baiting" which takes too long, and is almost pointless. The sheild being held at anytime in the air until landing on the ground is the best way to do what you are trying to get at.

"bad cop" once again.....
And for perfect sheild to rest? no... the timing for an instant perfect sheild is too much to ask for in the middle of a battle.
This subject needs a lot of disscussion before it can be applicated.

Don't apologize. I appreciate you correcting/informing me on any mistake or incorrect assumption I make. I want to improve Jiggs. If I am wrong, I want people to call me on it.

I did not really consider the canceling thing as anything special... just airdodge to buffering, which I think is useful in that it cancels the human lag (I'm quoting something but I don't know what). I have removed the link.

How is "baiting" distinct from jumping towards an opponent as Jiggs? And yes, I did mean holding shield in the air until landing. What suggested otherwise? That is the best method and it is what I am suggesting.

I agree it needs discussion. I think discussion is pointless if we don't try to apply this.

SHAD to perfect shield has gotten me at least a stock every two matches since I've been using it. No real timing is needed. Also, it is possible to perfect shield in the middle of a fight. If you DO perfect shield... which you will at least a few times a match, then you have this opportunity. It has worked for me... since I've practiced it.

You are thinking that you need to actively pursue perfect shielding. It helps. But perfect shielding sometimes just happens. Knowing how to capitalize on this is very good.

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

Don't apologize. I appreciate you correcting/informing me on any mistake or incorrect assumption I make. I want to improve Jiggs. If I am wrong, I want people to call me on it.

I did not really consider the canceling thing as anything special... just airdodge to buffering, which I think is useful in that it cancels the human lag (I'm quoting something but I don't know what). I have removed the link.

How is "baiting" distinct from jumping towards an opponent as Jiggs? And yes, I did mean holding shield in the air until landing. What suggested otherwise? That is the best method and it is what I am suggesting.

I agree it needs discussion. I think discussion is pointless if we don't try to apply this.

SHAD to perfect shield has gotten me at least a stock every two matches since I've been using it. No real timing is needed. Also, it is possible to perfect shield in the middle of a fight. If you DO perfect shield... which you will at least a few times a match, then you have this opportunity. It has worked for me... since I've practiced it.

You are thinking that you need to actively pursue perfect shielding. It helps. But perfect shielding sometimes just happens. Knowing how to capitalize on this is very good.

I need to cover a few points on your post. Some are very breif misunderstandings:

Point 1:
"How is "baiting" distinct from jumping towards an opponent as Jiggs?"
Well anything really is baiting. Some characters and plyers are more agressive toward jigglypuffs, and this is not somthing that is nessesary to mindgame opponents into. You may not even need to buffer your sheild.
Point 2:
"No real timing is needed. Also, it is possible to perfect shield in the middle of a fight"
Yes, it is very possible; but what i ment was how exacly do you time a buffered-airdodge-perfect sheild? Shure, that is were the baiting comes in, but onece again, not very plausible to do. you would be better off without the buffer, and you should stick with just perfect sheilding attacks as they come at you.
Point 3:
The point i made with woodman was that buffered sheilds from airdodges are not lag reducing. I would just airdodge into them, rest, and call it a match xD

 

[Veril]

I need to cover a few points on your post. Some are very breif misunderstandings:

Point 1:
"How is "baiting" distinct from jumping towards an opponent as Jiggs?"
Well anything really is baiting. Some characters and plyers are more agressive toward jigglypuffs, and this is not somthing that is nessesary to mindgame opponents into. You may not even need to buffer your sheild.
Point 2:
"No real timing is needed. Also, it is possible to perfect shield in the middle of a fight"
Yes, it is very possible; but what i ment was how exacly do you time a buffered-airdodge-perfect sheild? Shure, that is were the baiting comes in, but onece again, not very plausible to do. you would be better off without the buffer, and you should stick with just perfect sheilding attacks as they come at you.
Point 3:
The point i made with woodman was that buffered sheilds from airdodges are not lag reducing. I would just airdodge into them, rest, and call it a match xD

Point 2:

Fast fall so the attack would hit you when you land. That's how to time it. I don't understand how this isn't plausible. We will continue to disagree on this point

Point 3:
You know what I hate. Airdodging into someone using a move and having them (buffer) shield the rest. I avoid that tactic on the ground. It has not worked well for me. I'm not saying you can't use it. I actually prefer perfect rest though.

I simply disagree that this is "not very plausible". Of course, it is my prerogative to test and prove or disprove this. I will continue doing so.

 

[illinialex24]

Oh is this what Woodman meant? I've known SHADing for a while as a Falcon but I never understood what he said, he was so incoherent.

 

[Glick]

Lmao this is what he meant? He could have just called it SHADing.

Oh wait, he was trying to take credit for it. So he just put capital letters and poorly described it.

Once I use a power shield rest in match I will get back to you on this one.

 

[illinialex24]

Lmao this is what he meant? He could have just called it SHADing.

Oh wait, he was trying to take credit for it. So he just put capital letters and poorly described it.

Once I use a power shield rest in match I will get back to you on this one.

Yeah SHADing is fairly well known but it still could be fairly useful.

 

[GeneralWoodman]

kinda wut i meant, didn't know it was called that(obviously) and i thought the airdodge to power sheild was self explanatory because everyone sheilds or sidesteps after airdodging anyway.

 

[HiddenBowser]

SHADing is a ******** strategy.

 

[illinialex24]

SHADing is a ******** strategy.

Watch out people, Bowyer's back.

CELEBRATION TIME.

Bowyer, you missed a convo...

 

[Veril]

sweet!

I remember Bowyer trolling the Lucas boards. I got so pissed until I realized he was right lol

 

[illinialex24]

sweet!

I remember Bowyer trolling the Lucas boards. I got so pissed until I realized he was right lol

Yeah, the only time he hasn't been right is when he said Vodka keggers would not be the best thing ever for people with ciliac disease or altogether. WOOT

 

[HiddenBowser]

Yeah, the only time he hasn't been right is when he said Vodka keggers would not be the best thing ever for people with ciliac disease or altogether. WOOT

OMG, how am I wrong about that, lol, people would totally die... though I guess that would get rid of some of the ****ing ******** people out there... maybe I am wrong... lol

 

[PND]

Vodka keg, next to a keg of mix.

'Cmon, whaddya think we are, barbarians?

 

[illinialex24]

OMG, how am I wrong about that, lol, people would totally die... though I guess that would get rid of some of the ****ing ******** people out there... maybe I am wrong... lol

LOL. It would be the best thing ever for ciliacs.

 

[PND]

I only see one way to solve this: We need to hold a vodka kegger and get people to sign liability waivers upon entry. We'll keep a death tally, and a hilarity tally. We'll compare to the two at the end of the night.

 

[illinialex24]

I only see one way to solve this: We need to hold a vodka kegger and get people to sign liability waivers upon entry. We'll keep a death tally, and a hilarity tally. We'll compare to the two at the end of the night.

LOL. Watch out for the FDA. LOL. Oh wait your Canadian. WOOT

 

[PND]

No need to watch out for the FDA, that's what the liability waivers are for. . .

 

[illinialex24]

No need to watch out for the FDA, that's what the liability waivers are for. . .

Yeah lol. Nice....

 

[Glick]

I wish I had a liability waiver. :C

 

[illinialex24]

I wish I had a liability waiver. :C

Same.... such a good party....