Several Questions

[Kimchi]

1. Should you roll often with Ike? I've asked many people this question and the responses were all different. Some people say you should never roll, for example, NinjaLink. He states that Ike's roll is too slow and he says never to use Ike's roll. Other people's gameplay such as Rykoshet's , Rykoshet barely rolls. He rolls merely once or twice. Other Ike players use Roll a lot, such as RenegadeTX2001. So what should I do? I haven't been using Roll a lot in my metagame, and it's cost me dearly. But I also don't want to appear to be predictable with Ike.

2. When you have the opportunity to punish your opponent, for example, suppose DDD just charged a Forward Smash and I (Ike) am at a considerable distance away, impossible for DDD to hit me. Naturally, after DDD's hammer comes crashing down, I would try to punish him. But there's always those situations when you're about to punish your opponent, your opponent has two options: shield or side-dodge. My question is, how do you know if your opponent is going to shield or side-dodge? Often at times, when I try to punish my opponent by trying to grab him, it only works if he shields but if he side-dodges, I'm the one who gets punished. The latter is me getting punished also if I batter his shield with a dash attack. How do you predict which option your opponent is going to take?

3. Can someone please define spacing for me? Is Spacing just generally keeping a distance away from your opponent? I see terms like a spaced F-Air. What exactly does that mean? How do you know if you're maintaining good spacing?

 

[HeroMystic]

1) No.

2) If you're a considerable distance away and DDD is doing a Forward Smash, don't bother trying to punish. Just stay back and wait for a better opportunity.

3) Spacing is when you use long-ranged attacks against opponents for damage, while at the same time staying out of the opponent's range. For example, If you're fighting Falco, it's obvious he wants to grab the hell outta you. Ike would have to use "Spaced F-airs" to hit Falco to keep him away and avoid his grab range.

 

[Kimchi]

Hmm, for question 2, that was only one example. Does your answer apply to other characters as well?

 

[XACE-K]

1. You should barely roll with Ike. Use side-dodge more but use a roll just so you don't seem predictable.

2. Mindgames.

3. Spacing attacks is when you use a long-range attack on your opponent to get damage on them and keep them away from you. Since Ike's f-air is good at spacing, this is the move you should use most for it.

 

[Rykoshet]

1) Ike's roll is for all intents and purposes worthless. You can accomplish anything that rolling does by just walking a few steps away from the attack and benig ready to shield/powershield it as the attack comes in. Note that this isnt a remotely loaded statement so if ren comes back to me with this in any misconstrued light I'm gonna start chopping heads off but rolling is in general a much safer option online than it is offline. Ren's ike is a beast but I don't blame him for playing to his environment since he does play a lot more wifi than any of us east coasters (I havent really picked kirk's brain aside from a recent complaint about how ike manages to fall apart to the most gay of tactics but handles a 'normal' fight fine. Either way I havent really asked him how much wifi he's played recently.) I took a long time out to just flat out eliminate rolling from my gameplay but every once in a while offline you'll see it pop up, which I think makes it entirely predictable when I do it but I manage to get away with it to cross up here and there so whatever.

Rolling can also be used to bait the most typical rolling reaction. When your back is to someone roll behind them and see if they roll behind you in response. If they do, wait it out for the next stock then do it again and fsmash the other way, it works a lot more than it should >_>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hMr2PeDlSo

2) Punishing is assessing just how much time and room you have to take advantage of an opponent's mistake. If you're out of range of d3's fsmash and you havent positioned/timed yourself to counter it, the main thing you could do is jump just out of range of it right before it hits the ground so you dont get popped up by the earthquake and fair him for it. You could have also charged quick draw to fire off just as it comes down or dash attacked from a standing position. What you wanted there is speed an distance to beat out the reaction time, but he would have been smart to just buffer his shield. Sometimes you're better off just not punishing it and baiting the defensive response and going from there.

3) Spacing is using your character's moveset and range to your advantage, controlling the area around you so that if your opponent has a long range, theyre feeling claustrophobic or if they're a close range fighter, they feel they cant get inside of you. (Note that this works the other way with both categories too, but it's just the most typical way to use it). The most finicky of spacers would be marth, his game is almost all spacing. You know you're maintaining good spacing if you miss a move and you're not harshly punished for it, or punished for it at all.

 

[Kimchi]

Mm, video is not available O_O. How about for MKs? Punishing MKS is like near impossible in wi-fi lag -_-.

 

[Rykoshet]

Should work

 

[Kimchi]

Now it does, thank you.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

so this is what that video was for lol. I saw it this mourning and I'm like hmm... wonder what roll discussion is going on.

#2 example. You could just charge QD in this case and hit him after he swings.

 

[Lex Crunch]

#2 example. You could just charge QD in this case and hit him after he swings.

My thoughts exactly. If they're charging an attack, or they're about to land on the edge, and you're too far away (or just don't see the proper opportunity) then you'll want to use Quick Draw to punish, which is good, since you won't be using that attack for much else. The only problem is that at lower damages, they won't fly far enough away from the blow for you to be safe from retaliation.

As for question 1, no one character to my knowledge should abuse rolling any more than the others, and Ike is no exception.

#3, spacing (from what I've gathered) is placing yourself well enough to be safe from your opponent's attacks, but still be able to land your own if you move correctly. Basically, it means "don't be up in their grill all the time" since for Ike, he doesn't really have much to work with at that close range other than a grab, Down Smash, and Jab Combo, all of which are very good to use, but will get degraded with bad spacing tactics and then won't even kill.... which is bad.

 

[metroid1117]

1. Should you roll often with Ike? I've asked many people this question and the responses were all different. Some people say you should never roll, for example, NinjaLink. He states that Ike's roll is too slow and he says never to use Ike's roll. Other people's gameplay such as Rykoshet's , Rykoshet barely rolls. He rolls merely once or twice. Other Ike players use Roll a lot, such as RenegadeTX2001. So what should I do? I haven't been using Roll a lot in my metagame, and it's cost me dearly. But I also don't want to appear to be predictable with Ike.

2. When you have the opportunity to punish your opponent, for example, suppose DDD just charged a Forward Smash and I (Ike) am at a considerable distance away, impossible for DDD to hit me. Naturally, after DDD's hammer comes crashing down, I would try to punish him. But there's always those situations when you're about to punish your opponent, your opponent has two options: shield or side-dodge. My question is, how do you know if your opponent is going to shield or side-dodge? Often at times, when I try to punish my opponent by trying to grab him, it only works if he shields but if he side-dodges, I'm the one who gets punished. The latter is me getting punished also if I batter his shield with a dash attack. How do you predict which option your opponent is going to take?

3. Can someone please define spacing for me? Is Spacing just generally keeping a distance away from your opponent? I see terms like a spaced F-Air. What exactly does that mean? How do you know if you're maintaining good spacing?

1. While I don't agree with Rykoshet 100%, in general it is better to walk away and be ready to shield rather than roll. There are cases where I feel rolling is better, however, such as when your back is to the edge and you want to punish an FSmash-spamming Marth; in that scenario, rolling to his backside during the FSmash would be, in my opinion, smarter because in that position almost any attack you do will send him off-stage, whereas if you spot-dodged you would only be able to BThrow.

2. Knowing if your opponent will shield or spot-dodge is a matter of prediction. At the start of the match, when you have no hints as to your opponent's habits, a fairly safe way to reveal them is to run up to them with a shield; this way, the only way they can punish you is by grabbing.

3. Spacing is keeping your opponent in range of your attacks, but out of range of theirs. For example, if you space FAirs properly, you will never get shieldgrabbed unless the opponent has a long-range grab like TL, ZSS, Olimar, or Link.

 

[Aeropup]

2. How about a tippered dash attack?

 

[Falconv1.0]

1. Should you roll often with Ike? I've asked many people this question and the responses were all different. Some people say you should never roll, for example, NinjaLink. He states that Ike's roll is too slow and he says never to use Ike's roll. Other people's gameplay such as Rykoshet's , Rykoshet barely rolls. He rolls merely once or twice. Other Ike players use Roll a lot, such as RenegadeTX2001. So what should I do? I haven't been using Roll a lot in my metagame, and it's cost me dearly. But I also don't want to appear to be predictable with Ike.

2. When you have the opportunity to punish your opponent, for example, suppose DDD just charged a Forward Smash and I (Ike) am at a considerable distance away, impossible for DDD to hit me. Naturally, after DDD's hammer comes crashing down, I would try to punish him. But there's always those situations when you're about to punish your opponent, your opponent has two options: shield or side-dodge. My question is, how do you know if your opponent is going to shield or side-dodge? Often at times, when I try to punish my opponent by trying to grab him, it only works if he shields but if he side-dodges, I'm the one who gets punished. The latter is me getting punished also if I batter his shield with a dash attack. How do you predict which option your opponent is going to take?

3. Can someone please define spacing for me? Is Spacing just generally keeping a distance away from your opponent? I see terms like a spaced F-Air. What exactly does that mean? How do you know if you're maintaining good spacing?

Ike's roll is garbz, use it often to lose easily.

Opponents at lower levels side dodge things that are rather easy to dodge and aren't too risky, because they cant risk getting hit by the f smash/whatever strong thrown at them. I would think better players would simply side dodge and punish you. If you're punishing any attack, use the quickest and most effective move at your disposal. If you are right the **** next to a DDD and he F Smashed, you should be grabbing him.

Spacing is to keep the enemy at a distance where you can hit them without them hitting you (or atleast not easily). Marth is a great example of this, his attacks are the strongest at the tip and it keeps him safe. Melee Marth's would space them selves so they could attack and then defend themselves from any kind of punishment. (F air to l canceled d tilt for instance.) It gives you more control over the match and makes the match frustrating for the opponent.

 

[GamerdudeAT]

Personally I use the roll quite a lot and it seems to do well for me. For the second question, when the other person is vulnerable (like charging a smash or whatever) you can run forward and, I also do this a lot, A attack a good distance away and you'll still hit him. If you don't know what I mean go into training and start running as fast as you can go and A attack. It reaches pretty far. Hope I helped!

 

[Guilhe]

Rolling is safer at low level play. At high level play, a lot of characters can capitalize brutally if you abuse. I recommend spot dodge as you can punish your opponent immediately after with jabs.