Meta Set Ph1r3 To The Rain - Roy Matchup Discussion [Zelda, Mario, Sheik 7.26.15-8.6.15]

[Nelkoy]

I know I'm late, but not sure why Roy vs Rosalina is a -1 matchup. I have played a lot of games against Rosalina (more than 1,000 in total, and around 400 with Roy) and I must say is a pretty even matchup. Yeah, she can gimp easily, but if you know how to avoid it, you will never been daired out of the stage anymore. Rosalina is too light, and Roy hits too hard. You can kill her at 40% with a lucky fmash. Also, Rosalina is very big, so you can hit her with fairly facility.

I must say that Roy vs Rosalina MU is even.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

I'll just do Marth and Roy because those two are the most interesting MU's in my opinion... Maybe i'll do the others when I'm not as tired.

Marth

Spoiler

I'm not sure about Marth at the moment since he just recently recieved even more buffs but i can see his spacing game proving to be a real pain for Roy, especially now that Marth has even less landing lag on his aerials. I think Marth will play reactively to Roy's attacks. Waiting for Roy to come in (which Roy kind of has to) and use his superior sword range to try to prevent Roy from getting in. I think Marth's in a lot of trouble once Roy does get in though, especially since Marth doesn't have much weight to back Roy's powerful attacks. Couple that with the fact that Roy has a great combo game and that leaves Marth in quite a predicament. Marth, however will destroy Roy off-stage should Roy try to challenge him... I think this is where the downfall is.

I'll say even for now since Marth is a tad different now but it's safe to say Marth can pretty scary for Roy if the player isn't ready.

Ike

Spoiler

Ike has a lot of tools that will beat out Roy. Like Marth, Ike will be able to out space all of Roy's moves should Roy try to challenge Ike's attacks head on. F-tilt is a great example of this. It's fast, has incredible range, and can kill. If Roy is able to get in, he's nowhere near as safe. If Ike grabs Roy, that turns into an automatic 20% no questions asked. Ike's grab game is far too great for Roy to ignore. He also has D-tilt which pops Roy up into the air for a nice easy combo. F-air will keep you pretty far back as well. And Ike's dreaded B-air will kill you quicker than you can even realize the match is over so be extremely careful of that move. If you see Ike do a backflip towards you, expect a B-air. I can't stress that enough.

Spoiler

Ike's attacks are also pretty fast as well, especially his jab, furthering his cqc capabilities. Not to mention Ike is able to tank a lot of Roy's moves despite Roy's high power due to Ike's great weight.

Off stage is like a nightmare for Roy in this MU. Should Ike decide to jump off and attack head on, F-air will out range any of Roy's aerials and kill extremely early. If not, Roy has to deal with Eruption. Roy's recovery isn't too great. It's easy to see it coming with how linear and slow it is and Roy's fall speed is far too fast to try to attempt mind games to trick Eruption to come out. It's possible, but it's risky. Plus, if Ike gets to the ledge early, Eruption will be charged enough to kill very early so be careful when off stage and pray that Ike player has sticky fingers.

I think it's important for Roy to try as hard as possible to out speed Ike and dont let him build up his momentum by keeping as much pressure as possible. Ike's got a crappy disadvantage game but Roy's is a lot worse. Ike can last through your attacks much longer (unless F-smash) and still be able to kill you at reasonable percents.

The reason I like this MU so much is because it's literally Speed vs Tank.

Ike has improved tremendously over the course of the game. He went from low tier to literally high tier material. All Ike needs is solid Reps and he's capable of A-tier in my opinion. He has all the tools necessary to be there... But Roy is capable of that as well so that calls for an even more interesting MU.

I'll give -1 vs Ike (Ike has the advantage)

 

[Flukey]

Sorry i didn't post anything i wanted to make sure about the MU since the update, lucky me a friend of mine mains both Marth and Ike, sadly he is too defensive and scared to battle off-stage where he could beat me easily, but enough complaining about my friend, i'll get to the point.


[MU]
Ike has tremendously long range with his sword, if i'm not wrong he has longer reach than Marth (correct me if i'm wrong). The last patches made Ike an opponent which you must not underestimate. Even with Roy's speed getting in can be difficult, Ike's jab can take you out of range if he connect all the hits, and if not careful he can trick you and go for the grab after the second hit, it has worked for me that when blocking Ike's jabs, just after the second hit you can get out with a jab and pressure on depending on %.

Also Ike's N-air and F-air comes out really fast and out ranges Roy's aerial attacks, Ike's B-air is a great killing tool which can hit Roy easily cause most Roy players including myself tend to short hop a lot thanks to his aerial mobility, off-stage can be really dangerous for Roy too with Ike's F-air, but honestly i have seen way too little Ike's trying to do this, and most of the time they suicide cause of Ike's recovery, or it's horizontal or vertical recovery.

He is predictable in that aspect, though because of quickdraw is hard to gimp him, Roy can take adventage of his counter not so recommended most likely the attack will whiff, Ike's Aether hist you before he grabs the ledge, but well timed it can be trumped, still i don't recommend trying to B-air after a trump most likely he is going to F-air and you will only get damage and lose stage control, what you want is for him to regrab the ledge and use Flare Blade or read him. Roy's flare blade is a great tool specially for it's low endlag can bait some of Ike's attacks.Ike's smash attacks are slow if you counter them at mid percents, he will most likely die, his strength and knockback will erupt (ba dum tss) in his face if countered. Don't get predictable with those counter or a smart Ike player will charge a little bit more his smash attack and you will get rekt!!.

Roy's trap game and speed is more critical in this MU he can't take a defensive role or Ike will get momentum, YOU DON'T WANT IKE TO HAVE ANY MOMENTUM!!! it will destroy you. Both character weights can be comboed easily, but Roy has an easier time doing so, both have predictable recoveries, but Ike's recovery is harder to stop, you must kill him in one go or take him deep which is a hard spot for Roy due to lack of vertical recovery.

In my opinion this is a really even matchup, but still it's easier for Roy to maintain momentum, more likely to make Ike players make a mistake if they get to desperate just like @ A_Phoenix_Down said it's Speed vs Tank and a fun matchup. But i think Roy's speed has the upperhand here. vs +1, Roy favor for now (Ike is getting hella good with those patches)

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Sorry i didn't post anything i wanted to make sure about the MU since the update, lucky me a friend of mine mains both Marth and Ike, sadly he is too defensive and scared to battle off-stage where he could beat me easily, but enough complaining about my friend, i'll get to the point.


[MU]
Ike has tremendously long range with his sword, if i'm not wrong he has longer reach than Marth (correct me if i'm wrong). The last patches made Ike an opponent which you must not underestimate. Even with Roy's speed getting in can be difficult, Ike's jab can take you out of range if he connect all the hits, and if not careful he can trick you and go for the grab after the second hit, it has worked for me that when blocking Ike's jabs, just after the second hit you can get out with a jab and pressure on depending on %.

Also Ike's N-air and F-air comes out really fast and out ranges Roy's aerial attacks, Ike's B-air is a great killing tool which can hit Roy easily cause most Roy players including myself tend to short hop a lot thanks to his aerial mobility, off-stage can be really dangerous for Roy too with Ike's F-air, but honestly i have seen way too little Ike's trying to do this, and most of the time they suicide cause of Ike's recovery, or it's horizontal or vertical recovery.

He is predictable in that aspect, though because of quickdraw is hard to gimp him, Roy can take adventage of his counter not so recommended most likely the attack will whiff, Ike's Aether hist you before he grabs the ledge, but well timed it can be trumped, still i don't recommend trying to B-air after a trump most likely he is going to F-air and you will only get damage and lose stage control, what you want is for him to regrab the ledge and use Flare Blade or read him. Roy's flare blade is a great tool specially for it's low endlag can bait some of Ike's attacks.Ike's smash attacks are slow if you counter them at mid percents, he will most likely die, his strength and knockback will erupt (ba dum tss) in his face if countered. Don't get predictable with those counter or a smart Ike player will charge a little bit more his smash attack and you will get rekt!!.

Roy's trap game and speed is more critical in this MU he can't take a defensive role or Ike will get momentum, YOU DON'T WANT IKE TO HAVE ANY MOMENTUM!!! it will destroy you. Both character weights can be comboed easily, but Roy has an easier time doing so, both have predictable recoveries, but Ike's recovery is harder to stop, you must kill him in one go or take him deep which is a hard spot for Roy due to lack of vertical recovery.

In my opinion this is a really even matchup, but still it's easier for Roy to maintain momentum, more likely to make Ike players make a mistake if they get to desperate just like @ A_Phoenix_Down said it's Speed vs Tank and a fun matchup. But i think Roy's speed has the upperhand here. vs +1, Roy favor for now (Ike is getting hella good with those patches)

I like your argument Flukey but one thing to remember is that a good Ike is fully capable of B-airing you even when you are on the ground, not just when you short hop. You probably knew that but just keep that in mind if you didn't. Because of the delay on Roy's counter it requires a very hard read against Ike, which is hard because if IKE can read your counter he can pull of an F-smash and kill Roy at like 65-70%. This is one MU that I would recommend Roy not counter in. If you can effectively counter just remember It's important not to do that too much because Ike can take advantage of that. I fought a Roy friendly the other day and he was using Flare Blade to do exactly what you said. The problem I have with the effectiveness of Flare Blade is that the mix-up simply relies on the lack of MU knowledge to trick the opponent. Once people know about it's end lag, it's not going to be as useful.

It's hard for Roy to push it back into his favor once he lost it which is one of Roy's biggest problem. However, you aren't wrong when you say Roy is able to keep momentum very well once he has it. As long as Ike doesn't spam smash attacks (which no good Ike does) it's actually very easy for Ike to maintain momentum, especially against guys like Roy who will be out ranged in attacks. Ike's all about playing defensively and utilizing his very fast and effective options (jabs, tilts, aerials) while making hard reads to land smash attacks when applicable. Ike will not attempt to use any Smash attack unless he's certain it will hit, such as an F-smash read to counter or an Up-smash read to rollers and people jumping on the stage. Other than that, Ike is more than capable of killing with his incredible F-tilt and Up-tilt as well as literally all of his aerials.

One of the biggest problems for Roy in this MU is Roy has to put in a lot of pressure to be effective and that's exactly what Ike wants in these kinds of MU's. Roy's greatest strength will ultimately be his weakness.

 

[Flukey]

I like your argument Flukey but one thing to remember is that a good Ike is fully capable of B-airing you even when you are on the ground, not just when you short hop. You probably knew that but just keep that in mind if you didn't. Because of the delay on Roy's counter it requires a very hard read against Ike, which is hard because if IKE can read your counter he can pull of an F-smash and kill Roy at like 65-70%. This is one MU that I would recommend Roy not counter in. If you can effectively counter just remember It's important not to do that too much because Ike can take advantage of that. I fought a Roy friendly the other day and he was using Flare Blade to do exactly what you said. The problem I have with the effectiveness of Flare Blade is that the mix-up simply relies on the lack of MU knowledge to trick the opponent. Once people know about it's end lag, it's not going to be as useful.

It's hard for Roy to push it back into his favor once he lost it which is one of Roy's biggest problem. However, you aren't wrong when you say Roy is able to keep momentum very well once he has it. As long as Ike doesn't spam smash attacks (which no good Ike does) it's actually very easy for Ike to maintain momentum, especially against guys like Roy who will be out ranged in attacks. Ike's all about playing defensively and utilizing his very fast and effective options (jabs, tilts, aerials) while making hard reads to land smash attacks when applicable. Ike will not attempt to use any Smash attack unless he's certain it will hit, such as an F-smash read to counter or an Up-smash read to rollers and people jumping on the stage. Other than that, Ike is more than capable of killing with his incredible F-tilt and Up-tilt as well as literally all of his aerials.

One of the biggest problems for Roy in this MU is Roy has to put in a lot of pressure to be effective and that's exactly what Ike wants in these kinds of MU's. Roy's greatest strength will ultimately be his weakness.

Hmmmm you make a really good point there, like a said before, my friend is way too defensive and he misses a lots of shots here and there, and have never fought a great Ike. Yes F-tilt and U-tilt kill really, specially F-tilt with his great range and come friggin fast. And what i meant about the B-air is that he will get hit way more easily if he is not careful.

About the counter, yes it requires a hard read, but i usually do get the hard read and have no problem getting the counter, but it's just me, but sometimes Ike's pressure make it totally suitable for a counter, maybe not a hard hit counter, but a momentum killer, also Ike's Aether can be countered in the ledge if it's well timed and can get Ike in a tight spot, he will get F-aired and Ike will end up way to deep to even try to recover, and can be spiked too if he is does not measure his Aether distance well. Once again this are really hard reads.

Ike's strength is a force to reckon with (GOSH I totally forgot his U-smash near the ledge covering rolls and jump at the same time). But do keep in mind about Roy's awesome jab, it come extremely fast and will out speed most of Ike's moves, except of his jab i think, a good Roy will challenge Ike's attack with his run speed to shield and cross N-air.

About stage control yes Ike can get it more easily, but near the ledge it's more like a battle of wits.

Darn it i love this [MU], here i will leave some pretty good matches, i think the Ike player makes a lot of mistakes in the first two matches, and then Roy makes a lot of mistakes in the later matches, but still fun to watch (Ike player destroys Roy's stock in the third match, that's a true Ike momentum)

Super Smash Bros. 4 Wii U - Roy (Muru) vs Ike (Baselarde)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=balwHJ0tr7I

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Fun set to watch but that Ike was terrible lol made way too many errors.

By the way, Ike's jab is faster by a frame.

 

[Mario766]

That isn't a very good video for the MU. Roy's main advantage in the MU is his gimping and his speed. Roy's frame data is faster outside of jab but Ike's moves combo easier without having to rely on sourspots, Ike's sword is also bigger so he has an easier time spacing and staying safe. Roy's aerials are pretty un-safe with approaches and Ike can combo Roy easier due to his really fast falling. Up throw f-air will combo for a long time, as will down tilt f-air. Also up air's new buff means Roy dies to hit early and gets comboed into it easier.

Ike has a slight advantage but Roy's ability to kill at early percents leads to a match-up that can change at any time.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

And that Ike player was able to show none of that in that video. Instead he just allowed Roy to keep taking advantage of everything he did. The Roy player knew what he was doing a lot better than the Ike player.

 

[Xuan Wu]

I'm just going to reiterate most of what I have written a few pages back.

A fun match-up. I main Ike and use Roy as a secondary. I'll start by comparing their attributes from a Roy player's perspective. ^-^

+ Roy has better ground and aerial mobility than Ike.
+ Many of Roy's attacks, both in air and on ground, have faster start-up and less ending lag.
+ Roy has a stronger Counter than Ike; 1.35x damage multiplier as opposed to 1.2x.
+ Blazer is an amazing OoS kill move.
* Both have a vertical KO throw at around 170% - 185%; both will kill earlier with rage.
* Both characters' recoveries are linear, predictable, and gimpable.
- Many of Ike's attacks, both in air and on ground, out-range Roy's; Roy needs to close the distance to maximize his damage output.
- Roy lacks SH auto-cancelled aerials, compared to Ike.
- Roy is a fast-faller, making him highly susceptible to Ike's throw combos.
- Even when sent diagonally above and away from the stage, Roy has only one recovery option, compared to Ike with two.
- Roy is lighter than Ike; the latter can survive longer and make better use of rage.

Both characters can combo and Counter themselves to death. They both also benefit from rage with their already powerful attacks. Obviously, for Ike, he would want to keep his distance and space his aerials to stay out of Roy's sweet-spots; this means an Ike can play the match-up similarly to how a Marth would. Like against other characters, being able to follow-up out of D-throw is critical for Roy. Roy's best aerial approach option is N-air as it has the least landing lag of his aerials; for ground approaches, probably D-tilt and Double-Edge Dance. Roy can use his superior mobility and faster aerials to weave in back and forth around Ike. Ike would have to use his smashes more sparingly due to Roy's powerful Counter. Blazer OoS is risky, but could be good for surprise.

On the other hand, Ike has become more menacing as of the 1.0.8. update. He now has a Dash Attack that can KO many characters, like Roy, near ledges at around 100% - 110% without proper DI, landing lag reductions to his aerials, hitbox fixes, and more. Ike's U-throw to F-air is a kill confirm on Roy near the ledge at around 110% to 115%. Ike was further buffed in the 1.1.0. update, with his U-air receiving increased base knockback. This makes Ike's U-throw to U-air even deadlier, as it can kill Roy at around 90%. Roy being easily comboed up to KO percent is why his falling speed is a liability to him, and it is especially apparent in this particular match-up.

As the other users have said, the video portrays the match-up rather poorly. Outside of edgeguarding, the Ike player made little to no effort in exploiting Roy's weaknesses. Ike's throw combos were virtually non-existent in this set of matches. With all things considered, I am inclined to say Ike has a slight advantage. Good reads from both players, however, could also mean this match-up can go either way.

45:55 Ike

 

[WorstGanonWorld]

H Roy's flare blade is a great tool specially for it's low endlag can bait some of Ike's attacks.

It was mentioned already but if you´re Roy, don´t use Flare Blade against Ike. A good Ike who knows about the cooldown will reward you with a Dash Attack that deals 14% and is (finally) very capable of ending your stock at reasonable percents. I really urge you to minimize the of use Flare Blade a lot. It will get you punished hard.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

^^^
Flare Blade doesnt really cover much distance either, and although it has little end lag, it's start-up is on the slow side. It's a good baiting tool for now simply because of lack of MU knowledge but as time goes on, I can see the move being less and less useful.

 

[Flukey]

i recommend to use flare blade when you know it's gonna hit, or to confuse your opponent using it an unexpected moments, some people use it for edgeguard, but it's not worth it against Ike, you will only get punished

 

[Flukey]

[MU]
Marth/Lucina, like ike has got pretty nice buffs in the last two patches (what happend to samus Sakurai!!), damages increases on most of his tilts, less landing lag on all of his aerials including his dolphin slash and shield breaker. He even got an U-Tilt to smash attack at mid percents true combo, it's not a tipper but it's a really hard hit.

Unlike previous smash games, Marth now is a bit floaty, this means he can get out of some of Roy's D-throw combos in which the player must be more aware, also the floatiness makes his F-air safer for spacing plus the less ending lag you can't go run in and dash attack, his F-tilt will come out and most likely it will be a tipper. His jab come out quick and completely can Knock off Roy's momentum.

Off-stage, nightmare state, that's what Marth is made fo,r he will out-range Roy's attacks (actually every Marth move out ranges him), so you must take a smart decision when confronting him off stage and get to the ledge, careful of ledge trumps his dolphin slash comes fast, and if you're not careful and Marth players get the timing right, probably they will try to stage spike if recovering a little bit low.

Marth still has to work hard to get and maintain momentum, he is all about spacing and his fall speed can sometimes make him easy to read where is he going to land, some Marth player when they see someone coming to their landing spot, they throw a F-air or N-air, so one must run and shield or stop at a safe distance, all of his moves have less landing lag but they aren't unpunishable.

They are opposites, one must conserve his distance while the other one must get right on his face, Roy has the upper-han in speed and air mobility, Roy can kill Marth relatively early when he gets up close, for Marth to achieve an early kill he must take Roy off-stage and get tippers, a tippered F-smash will most likely kill him at around 50% yikes!.

Roy's jab to F-air is a great kill setup specially near the ledge, his F-throw when the tech is missed has great follow-ups and D-throw to blazer can get Marth at mid percents which is dangerous if Roy has rage, Roy must not give him much space to breathe, Marth's mid part of the blade will not sent you very far, except for the second hit of his jab, so Roy can recover space quickly, never challenge F-air vs F-air, Marth has greater range and comes out faster.

Still haven't found any great Marth (not that they aren't any, but lacks solid reps), and can't make a 100% statement, and his latest patches still need to develop his new movements, im sure there is a lot of new stuff this character can do now. So i will state that it's an even match-up, this last patch made great changes and need to make further investigation.

vs +0

 

[Perris6]

If you want to see how the Roy vs Ike and Lucina match up works there are many videos in the video and critique thread you can look through

 

[Trunks159]

Vs(Ryo) : [URL]http://youtu.be/s3VkD5X4ejY[/URL]
Great duel. From what I saw, Roy had an edge in the neutral because of his superior speed, nair, and frame data. Ike's punishes (sword length, grabs), advantage state, and edge guarding give him the edge.

Ryo (Ike) was able to get back on stage far more easily than Roy, which at some point became a gamble.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Vs(Ryo) : https://youtu.be/Aag8-66RTlg
Great duel. From what I saw, Roy had an in the neutral because of his superior speed, nair, and frame data. Ike's punishes (sword length, grabs), advantage state, and edge guarding give him the edge.

Ryo (Ike) was able to get back on stage far more easily than Roy, which at some point became a gamble.

That links to a youtube ad.

 

[ElectricBlade]

Vs(Ryo) : https://youtu.be/Aag8-66RTlg
Great duel. From what I saw, Roy had an in the neutral because of his superior speed, nair, and frame data. Ike's punishes (sword length, grabs), advantage state, and edge guarding give him the edge.

Ryo (Ike) was able to get back on stage far more easily than Roy, which at some point became a gamble.

Hey guys I found googles Smashboards account!

 

[Trunks159]

You guys know I was just trolling you . Without further ado, the real link: http://youtu.be/s3VkD5X4ejY

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

^^^Perfect example of the MU right there.

Roy's Nair is perfect for closing distance and taking neutral. However, he was eventually having issues making the kill because Ike wouldn't let him get in close. And Roy didn't want to get in close because he knew Ike would take advantage and tack on damage.

Off stage, as I had said, was very tough for Roy due to Eruption.

When Roy did get the advantage, Ike was definitely struggling.

 

[PyroTakun]

Ike has the range and -consistent- power, while Roy has to get in close to be truly effective, but then that exposes him to jabs/ grabs from Ike.
If Roy gets a hit he can string together some really nice stuff, same goes for Ike
Counter wrecks both characters
Both characters have the same D-Air, which leaves them open for juggles
Both characters recoveries are gimpable

It's basically going to come down to a bait-and punish game where the first one to make a mistake will take a beating. I'd say it's 50-50, maybe 45-55 in Ike's favor, but the MU can easily go either way.

 

[Xelion]

When it comes down to the Ike vs Roy match up, I think Ike has the advantage. He has more range, consistent power, and Roy is the prefect weight and fall speed for combos. Also Ike's off stage performance out ways Roy's.
However in Roy's defense, his great power and speed make up for the loss of range. Ike is a good weight for Roy's combos. So it is a more equal match.
However, in my experience, I think Ike has a bigger advantage. 45-55 Ike's favor.

 

[Mario766]

Ryo played bad in that set. Manny choked. Ryo would have lost 3-0 if Manny knew the counter timing. Bad example

 

[Chalice]

So since it's way past the date for the thread title shouldn't we be discussing other match ups? Like Meta Knight?

 

[Gidy]

What are your guy's thoughts on Roy vs Ness and Roy vs. Luigi?

 

[The Revolutionary Cafe]

What are your guy's thoughts on Roy vs Ness?

Roy vs Ness seems annoying but manageable pk fire is kinda annoying but can be power shielded of course and Roy has the speed to catch up with Ness and can also gimp his predictable recovery easily.

 

[Flukey]

Roy vs Ness seems annoying but manageable pk fire is kinda annoying but can be power shielded of course and Roy has the speed to catch up with Ness and can also gimp his predictable recovery easily.

Yes Roy has speed, but Ness has better combos against Roy cause of his fall speed and weight and has a way easier time getting the kill, keeping Roy offstage or way up the air in which y can't do much, also, Ness's Nair has better priority, speed and auto cancels so you can't grab him easily and his floaty nature is harder to combo. Ness has a better neutral game too

In my personal opinion this is one of the hardest match ups against Roy

 

[Chalice]

Doesn't help too that Roy has to be right next to Ness to get some damage in for his Hilters. Meanwhile all of Ness's moves have priority over Roy's and can grab him easily due to the nature of Roy's approaches.

 

[Perris6]

Yes Roy has speed, but Ness has better combos against Roy cause of his fall speed and weight and has a way easier time getting the kill, keeping Roy offstage or way up the air in which y can't do much, also, Ness's Nair has better priority, speed and auto cancels so you can't grab him easily and his floaty nature is harder to combo. Ness has a better neutral game too

In my personal opinion this is one of the hardest match ups against Roy

I've played this mu in tourney against the best Ness in my region and managed to get the win. This MU is very difficult because to beat Ness you need to keep your distance and well.....that's not a part of Roy's agenda. So I had to slow my game down and stick to punishing his landings, converting as much damage as I could from strings, and forcing him off stage where I can exploit Ness' bad recovery. You want to space nairs, punish landing Fairs and Up airs, force Ness to not only approach you but force him off stage. Perfect shield pk fire, grab and convert damage. Throw him off stage and counter his up b. DO NOT challenge him in the air. If you do challenge him in the air do it with the tip of your sword unless you KNOW you're gonna land an attack. Fair and Bair are good spacing tools. Oh, and don't get grabbed, that's 40% Lol.

 

[Gawain]

What are your guy's thoughts on Roy vs Ness and Roy vs. Luigi?

I just played vs the best player in my local region, who happens to main Ness, so I can talk about Ness a little bit.

It's not that bad. There are two primary issues with the matchup and I'll talk about those first. The first really big (and glaring) issue is that Ness edgeguard Roy incredibly hard. Roy's up B doesn't travel super fast, so he is very susceptible to PKT, which will either stage spike you or pop you up for a followup. Roy's only advantage in this situation is his air speed, Ness needs to be at a position at which he can PKT you after knocking you off stage pretty quick if he wants to use that as a guard option. The second major issue is that, as a fast faller, Ness can deal a lot of percent to Roy very fast, meaning you're gonna go off stage pretty quick at some point.

Fortunately though, Ness's neutral game is not very good. He's a punish character, he really relies on you making mistakes. Roy's bnb approaches (spaced fairs and nairs) beat anything Ness will do to approach. Ness has to stay grounded and fish for grabs, though to be fair he normally does this and is quite good at it. Roy definitely wins the neutral IMO though. If he's carelessly throwing fire out, you can often jump over them and just nair him or grab him. Ness's weight and air speed make him pretty susceptible to Roy's forward throw combos, except he falls out of DB a lot so I would really just stick to nair. Roy covers Ness' ledge getup options extremely well. Fair seems to work really well here as you can just space it out and punish any attempt to move after your fair with a Dtilt.

Getting the kill is a little more involved for Roy than it is for Ness(just throw or PKT edgeguard, both work extremely well). Roy has access to both his jab and dthrow into blazer setups vs Ness. He also has DB2up as a setup. Other than that you can occasionally edgeguard Ness' attempts to up b to the stage if he's close and you're feeling ballsy. Point is, Roy needs a little more of a read to get the kill than Ness does. High percents the matchup boils down to "Can Roy keep spacing his aerials to stay safe?" and "Who is going to get a grab first?".

Overall, I'd say the matchup is probably about 45:55 Ness' favor. I don't think it's really all that bad, Ness just has an easier time killing Roy and doesn't need to work as hard at it. As long as the Roy consistently outplays the Ness in neutral though, he should win.

 

[Gidy]

Roy can also counter ness's up b recover attempt and always kill him no matter the percent. I can agree on 45 55 though.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

For the first time, Rosalina is analyzing Roy at her sub-forum. If you have anything to contribute for the Rosalina vs. Roy match-up, please head to the following thread link...

http://smashboards.com/threads/416752/

As for the directory thread itself...

http://smashboards.com/threads/404194/

 

[CasteHappy//]

I know I'm late, but not sure why Roy vs Rosalina is a -1 matchup.

Came here for the same reason and also late

Roy is THE floaty slayer.

Second hit of Roy's Nair, pushes Luma away, as easy as that. You can spam Nair until Luma's gone, and then focus on getting a grab, a single Fthrow can lead into Nair > Fair > Fair at low percents and that's a free ~42%
(With no rage or DI against Rosalina)
Up Smash kills at 94%
Up Tilt kills at 110%
FSmash kills at 83%
Up B kills at 102%
Jab can lead into Up B around 100% and kill
Jab into Fair is a true combo until ~115% and kills close to the edge
Dropzone Fair also kills

Roy is great counter pick character against Rosalina, any out of shield option with rage is an early kill, and killing Rosalina first is what every character needs in the matchup. It should be even or +1 if being positive.

What are your guy's thoughts on Roy vs Ness and Roy vs. Luigi?

I haven't played Roy vs Ness but I don't think it's a good matchup. Since you need to be as close as possible to Ness, he will just space you out and play the hit and run game, he can gimp you easily, his combos are devastating against Roy and Roy can't get his combos as easily as in other matchups. Use side b as much as you can, if you counter his recovery and get early kills when Ness is offguard, Roy wins, but if Ness plays defensive and respects Roy's kill moves, he wins. I'd say -1

Roy vs Luigi is kinda difficult to tell because if Luigi starts a combo, you'll get like 80% for free because Roy doesn't have any tool to scape combos. BUT if you get a single grab at low percents you can Fthrow > Nair > Fair > Fair and get him offstage, then you only have to dropzone fair or counter his Side B and he won't come back. Also, Luigi will slide really far away when you hit his shield, so it's kinda "safe" to throw FTilt and FSmash on shield.

Luigi wins the neutral and is most likely to win this matchup, but Roy can make a comeback just by getting a grab.
I'd say -2, but if you learn the matchup and play your best is probably -1

 

[WispBae]

Hey there, hot stuff (see what I did there?)

The Doggy forums are discussing this MU and would love you input on it!

Click on cutsie yarn Roy to meet us at our coliseum!

 

[LordTakeo]

What I noticed... we are in the Rosalina Match-up threat written as -1,5. Aka, a problem for Rosalina.
And here, we are a -1 ... which means Rosalina makes us problems. Which is now more accurate...?

 

[EnGarde]

What I noticed... we are in the Rosalina Match-up threat written as -1,5. Aka, a problem for Rosalina.
And here, we are a -1 ... which means Rosalina makes us problems. Which is now more accurate...?

I would say their their rating is probably more accurate. Looks like this thread was abandoned months ago.

 

[Institutionalized]

I'd think Rosa is 0. We can jab lock luma to death and kill Rosalina really early, but Rosa can gimp us in silly ways, especially with dairing as an edgeguard since even the non-meteor hit can kill. I think that matchup would depend more on who gets a harder read or how often you kill luma and abuse its respawn timer. That's not really part of the current matchup discussion I guess (although this thread seems pretty dead to me.)
I would propose talking about the Falcon MU since I don't think I've seen that covered, but I could be wrong.

 

[Flukey]

Not being active lately sorry, i even feel weird playing sm4sh finally got a job (hurray for me!!).

I would like to propose talking about the following matchups: or, ,.

Cast votes or let's discuss about them. I'll try to upload later my opinion about this MU's

 

[EnGarde]

While I'm game to talk about new MUs, I worry that because the OP isn't being maintained, that all the information will end up cluttered and unorganized, and lost. Might be better to start a new MU thread in that case, especially since the new patch with the shield changes.

 

[Flukey]

I totally agree with this

 

[Institutionalized]

I like the idea of a new MU thread, perhaps one with a better maintained score table/MU organization. As for Flukey's suggestion i'd vote Link/Toon Link, I'd like help with dealing with projectiles in general so this MU would be quite interesting.