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September 30 Patch Predictions?

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BradLeeTee

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Do you guys think Sakurai will surprise us again with more than just the Mario Maker stage on the September 30 patch? I've personally got high hopes since we havent gotten a character for a while that we'll be seeing 1 or 2 veterans to satisfy us while we wait for the ballot characters to be made.
 

CCTANK93

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Yeah. I feel like there will be another stage to go with it since the stage select was uneven in the trailer and we haven't had anything else in a while so I'm thinking there might be a character too. Possibly a balance patch as well. Man next week is gonna be hype since we get the Mario Maker Stage, possibly other stuff, and the Ballot ends that weekend.
 

Raijinken

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I'm hoping the speculation about an extra stage is accurate, and also hoping for a balance patch (hopefully more impactful than the last one), a character, and more Mii hats.
 

Quarium

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Maybe Kirby will get an upthrow buff so it is a Killthrow and the world will finally reach true fairness...

In all seriousness, another stage and a balance patch seems like the way to go.
 

Kaladin

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-Ike is buffed to Sheik tier
-Top 3 characters at Umebura are nerfed to hell.
 

Kikkipoptart12

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I think we only will be getting a balance patch and maybe a patch of the tournament mode and that about it.
 

MrGame&Rock

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I think we'll get another stage and Balance Patch. REALLY hoping for Meta Crystal and a Sheik Nerf. And if the stars align, Yoshi's Up Throw will become a real combo throw. But at the very least, another balance patch is almost guaranteed and another stage is likely.

It's possible the other stage hidden from the trailer isn't ready for prime time yet, though, and we'll get it a bit later on when it's done.
 

Wintropy

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- Mario Maker stage (obvs~)
- Second stage
- Character(s) or details of character(s)
- Balance patch

Characters and balance patches make me happy~ :3
 

L1N3R1D3R

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If there were a balance patch, what should they change? Here are some ideas I had:

:4kirby:
+ Make his up throw do more knockback.

:4sheik:
- Slightly more endlag on F-air.
- Slightly less knockback on Bouncing Fish.

:4pacman:
+ Make Bonus Fruit charge slightly quicker.
+ Make smash attacks do slightly more knockback.

:4ness:
- Make B-throw do less knockback, especially vertically.

:4drmario:
+ Make Super Jump Punch go slightly farther (includes custom moves).

:4marth:
+ Make tipper cover slightly more area.

:4jigglypuff:
+ Increase knockback on Rest (not necessarily to Melee status, though that would be nice).

:4mewtwo:
+ Increase his weight.

:4littlemac:
+ Buff his Jolt Haymaker in terms of recovery to pre-1.0.4.

:4falco:
+ Make one of his aerials combo into itself.

:rosalina:
- Decrease knockback on Luma's moves.

:4samus:
+ Revert N-air to its Melee form (if possible).
 
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Re4gNarsil

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I sure hope there's a balance patch; while I wouldn't mind a slight nerf to Sheik and maybe one or two others I'd much rather get a bunch of sizable buffs to the bottom half of the cast. Here's a few specifics that seem to make sense to me, but honestly any improvements will be welcomed.

Jigglypuff: create some reliable setups into rest and improve strength of it a bit. Also, returning the final smash to brawl power would be nice.

Marth and Lucina: decrease frames on f-air and perhaps u-air.

Zelda: for goodness sake take away free fall after din's fire, and maybe increase air or running speed a little.

Palutena: increase air speed so d-throw into u-air is more reliable. Decrease ending lag on special and side special.
 

NintendoKnight

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The characters who drastically need buffs are :4zelda: and :4samus:.

I won't be offended by Sheik and Rosie getting nerfs.

Also buff :4ganondorf: because why not.

Although, I think we might get another stage. You know, if we're getting "game-focused" stages, I'm surprised we haven't seen a Splatoon stage yet.

As the turf war rages on, the ground gets slippery with ink.
 

Jeronado

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Mario Maker stage looks really fun to play with friends. A balance patch would be cool, I'm mostly content with how things are right now but in terms of balance patch wish list:

:4sheik:
- More startup on Ground Needles (or) Less range on Needles

:rosalina:
- More end lag on Gravitational Pull

:4metaknight:
+ Let Fair auto-cancel (:awesome:)

:4samus:
+ Fix-up some of her hitboxes (Like F-smash)
+ Decrease startup on Missles
+ Make U-smash hitboxes link properly

+ Buff all the low tiers :^)
 
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MrGame&Rock

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Revert Kirby to his Melee levels of power. Watch the collective freakout. Then have an October 2nd patch revert him to normal.
 

wedl!!

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If there were a balance patch, what should they change? Here are some ideas I had:

:4kirby:
+ Make his up throw do more knockback.
That's a fine change. Kirby does have a bit of a rough time killing later into stocks, and having a mixup to make people afraid of his approaches at high percents sounds like a good idea.

:4sheik:
- Slightly more endlag on F-air.
That's a fine nerf, although the range is more suspect.
- Slightly less knockback on Bouncing Fish.
I don't think you understand that BF killing isn't the actual issue with the move, it's the safety.

also, needles are actually still a problem and you totally ignored them lol


:4pacman:
+ Make Bonus Fruit charge slightly quicker.
+ Make smash attacks do slightly more knockback.
I'm not even going to question the changes (that doesn't exempt them from being a bit... strange). The real question is why the hell are you buffing Pac-Man?

:4ness:
- Make B-throw do less knockback, especially vertically.
Things Mid Level Players Need To Stop Saying/Doing #93: Implying Ness should be nerfed.

:4drmario:
+ Make Super Jump Punch go slightly farther (includes custom moves).
Good, but not on its own. It doesn't help the fact that Doc's mobility is awful and his combo game is much weaker than Mario's. I'd argue just this change alone and nothing else makes Doc more niche.

:4marth:
+ Make tipper cover slightly more area.
Or maybe people could learn to space? Or his hitboxes in general would be fixed, as opposed to the tippers so you can feel like "muh melee/brawl marth"??

:4jigglypuff:
+ Increase knockback on Rest (not necessarily to Melee status, though that would be nice).
Wow. That is NOT the problem that character has. At all.

:4mewtwo:
+ Increase his weight.
Hitboxes, maybe? I mean his weight is fine but that being his only problem is basically a joke.

:4littlemac:
+ Buff his Jolt Haymaker in terms of recovery to pre-1.0.4.
That's fine. No argument there.

:4falco:
+ Make one of his aerials combo into itself.
They already...do though? That's not the problem. His real problem is neutral/mobility.
Doing this is entirely redundant and accomplishes nothing.


:rosalina:
- Decrease knockback on Luma's moves.
Wow that uh... really helps balance her. It's so impossibly general and vague it couldn't be wrong, right?

:4samus:
+ Revert N-air to its Melee form (if possible).
At the risk of sounding like a broken clock.. hitboxes??? Her laggy missiles? Her lack of ability to kill anyone?
 
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XenoBlur

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Even tho I main Sheik, Im tired about those comments that say "Sheik needs nerf" Even tho they haven't fight good Sheiks and they main Yoshi or Mario that are also top tiers. If theres a nerf I ONLY HOPE they nerf Sheik 2 attacks and never buff her or nerf her again, Those attacks are:
:4sheik:
Needles: Less % and more time to charge them
Vanish: Remove 2nd hitbox and windbox and less invincibility frames and slightly less knockback

I <3 Sheik
 
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me quazzy

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:4greninja: gets nerfed...
But in all seriousness, I think :4myfriends: might get a buff. He's only one little buff away from the top tiers.
I'd like to see :4robinm: get a boost to his grab box because it's almost pitiable.
I'm almost certain :4charizard: :4olimar: :4palutena: :4wario: :4metaknight: :4zelda: will get a buff or balance of some sort.
 

33percentgod

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FOR THE LOVE OF CAPS ALL I WANT IS BOWSER'S FLYING SLAM TO WORK!!

YOU GOT GRABBED, YOU DIE, JUST LIKE GANONDORF'S CHOKE

PLEASE NINTENDO GOD, IT'S ALL I'VE ASKED FOR IN THE LAST YEAR.

JUST MAKE IT F*CKING WORK!!!!!
 

me quazzy

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FOR THE LOVE OF CAPS ALL I WANT IS BOWSER'S FLYING SLAM TO WORK!!

YOU GOT GRABBED, YOU DIE, JUST LIKE GANONDORF'S CHOKE

PLEASE NINTENDO GOD, IT'S ALL I'VE ASKED FOR IN THE LAST YEAR.

JUST MAKE IT F*CKING WORK!!!!!
Who's honestly going to recover? Only those with good recoveries and wall jumps.
Fact is you shouldn't even use that move that way unless you're up by a stock or more.
 

33percentgod

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Who's honestly going to recover? Only those with good recoveries and wall jumps.
Fact is you shouldn't even use that move that way unless you're up by a stock or more.
There's a lot of characters that recover no problem, such as Kirby, ROB, and Villager just to name a few. The fact YOU die and lose the match because the opponent left themselves open to be grabbed is complete BULLSH*T. There have been so many matches that I actually LOST and should have won because of that. Me and my enemy are both around 110% damage and I grab him for the flying slam win....BUT NO, he drives me over the edge and HE wins? Are you f*cking for real? Bowser players already have enough of an uphill battle, but now we are supposed to micromanage points of damage to make sure we don't lose control of our OWN MOVE and get taken over the edge? Give me a break.

Ganon does a suicide choke and he wins, I do a suicide slam and....he WINS? The F*CK?

Fix the damn move already. It's been a year Nintendo, enough.
 
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me quazzy

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There's a lot of characters that recover no problem, such as Kirby, ROB, and Villager just to name a few. The fact YOU die and lose the match because the opponent left themselves open to be grabbed is complete BULLSH*T. There have been so many matches that I actually LOST and should have won because of that. Me and my enemy are both around 110% damage and I grab him for the flying slam win....BUT NO, he drives me over the edge and HE wins? Are you f*cking for real? Bowser players already have enough of an uphill battle, but now we are supposed to micromanage points of damage to make sure we don't lose control of our OWN MOVE and get taken over the edge? Give me a break.

Ganon does a suicide choke and he wins, I do a suicide slam and....he WINS? The F*CK?

Fix the damn move already. It's been a year Nintendo, enough.
Those 3 are givens. But I guess if they're open just use a regular grab. I don't think nintendo is going to change it although I'd like to see it as well. Besides, using the slam on stage with an opponent at 110% or more will usually give you the win as it is.
 

33percentgod

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Those 3 are givens. But I guess if they're open just use a regular grab.
You're missing the point. It's one of Bowser's specials, not just a regular grab, and it kills. I shouldn't have to do a regular grab and continue then match, risking my own stock, when an enemy left themselves open and I should have had the kill and potentially the match.

I have to completely disregard one of my own specials just because Nintendo can't be f*cked to fix a problem they created. It's not my fault the move is broken so why are Bowser mains being punished for it? And on top of the confusion, it seems every tournament has it's own rules regarding what happens with the flying slam.

Let a critical move of ZSS or Diddy get this f*cked up and see how fast it gets fixed. Everyone knows it's broken and a **** show, but because it's not Fox or Sheik people shrug their shoulders and pretend it's "not really a problem."

For us Bowser mains it's a HUGE problem and it needs to finally be addressed.
 

Buffoon

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I don't think we're getting anything extra; but if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
:4marth:
+ Make tipper cover slightly more area.
It's already hard enough trying to line up his tipper in this bloody game as it is; why would you want to make it worse?
 

CleanOgre

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Sonic is going to have all his kill moves nerfed after this patch.
 

me quazzy

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I never said it wasn't a problem. I'm just saying that they probably won't fix it and maybe try a different option. Bowser does need some buffs as well.
As for Marth, I'd say he's fine. Maybe change some of the knock back on the dolphin slash so you can actually end on an up slash at high percents.
Personally, I want more DK buffs so I can expand more efficiently.
 
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SneakyLink

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Smashboards becomes Crashboards as everyone is trying...

Oh wait, that's gonna happen no matter what I say.

On topic: SMM stage
Mii Costumes
 

VioletSmashfan

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All I ever wanted was for :4lucario: to get a slight knockback nerf on F-air (Mega Man's own F-air semi-acts like Lucario's old F-air from Brawl slightly), and remove the landing lag when he lands wrongly with Extreme Speed, while said move gets endlag and landing lag decreases a tad bit so that it can properly combo while on the ground.

:4falco: is probably going to get buffed more while :4fox: is slowly nerfed even further (they already took away his infinite jab-lock, what more could they do?)

:4sonic: I wouldn't be surprised if he kept getting nerfed and still gets high tier honors.
:4marth:/:4lucina:are probably going to continue with the buffing they get with every patch, wouldn't be surprised if they're as good as :4feroy:is right now and he gets a slightly similar treatment to his Side B move that :4marth:/:4lucina: got in the last patch.
:4ryu: I hope to god they don't even bother touching him, he's perfect as he is right now, but they might nerf him if they consider him to be too OP'ed.
:4mewtwo:needs to be buffed badly like real badly, he's the WORST character on the roster right now and is easily the worst out of the DLC gang that was released and it's a shame as he was literally the 1st DLC character released and yet they nerfed him more than buffed him from Melee to Sm4sh what were they thinking when they decided to bring him back after finally listening to fan requests, I ended up dropping him for Roy and Lucario (and to a lesser extent Marth, Lucina and Ryu).

The others characters, I'm not too concerned of, unless :4pacman: can get a speed buff on his grab while decreasing it's endlag just a tad bit.
 
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Kenith

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- something something second stage
- something something Mii costumes
- something something Sheik is NERFED
- Mario Maker stage

And either the release or announcement of a character.
 

JamietheAuraUser

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If we're talking balance patches:

Kirby:
— Make Up Throw actually a kill throw. Please.

Pit:
— Increase horizontal air speed so his aerials can actually do work.

Samus:
— Fix Charge Shot priority so it isn't stopped by much weaker moves. (Affects Dense Charge Shot custom)
— Make Charge Shot chargeable in the air. (Affects customs)
— Make default Missiles, both homing and Super, behave the same as the Mii Gunner Missile in all respects. The endlag changes should also affect customs.
— Increase jump height when being hit by your own Morph Bombs and decrease lag from morph bomb jumping. Also, increase horizontal mobility while in morph ball form, both when placing a Morph Bomb and when morph bomb jumping. (Affects customs)
— Increase damage, knockback, and blast radius of default Morph Bomb.
— Make jab combo properly. I get that she's supposed to be bad in close quarters, but please fix that.
— Increase ZAir's damage output. Also, give it more hitstun somehow, enough that auto-cancelled ZAir can true combo into a fully charged Charge Shot.
— Fix hitboxes and hurtboxes on things like NAir, DAir, FTilt, FSmash, etc.
— Make USmash, FAir, and UAir link properly.
— Increase knockback or decrease endlag on FTilt.
— Increase damage output on DTilt.
— Increase damage and knockback on BAir.
— Decrease endlag on grab, and use frame speed modifiers to make her hurtbox less extended during startup.
— Speed up her roll dodges.
— Global engine change: make all ZAirs use stale move mechanics.

Basically, if you're going to play with the idea of "Samus is good at range and Charge Shot is too good, so she needs to suck at melee", then give her actual ranged options. Charge Shot is great and all, but you can't play a ranged character with just one good projectile. For one thing, having a greater variety of options makes a character more fun, even if all of those options are just "poke with projectiles". For another, a character with only 1-2 usable moves is hit hard by Stale Move Negation. In Smash, if a character has only one good move, they're almost inherently terrible even if that one move is so good as to be almost broken. Why? Because by your 10th usage of that move, all uses of that move are doing about 0.53x their normal damage, which also affects their knockback accordingly.

Zelda:
— Make Phantom Slash charge-storeable. (Affects customs)
— Decrease delay between Din's Fire release and the actual detonation. Right now, it explodes way after it actually stops, making dodging it completely brain-dead no matter how good Zelda's placement is. Also, increase damage and knockback on the sourspot hit, and increase the size of the sweetspot slightly. (Affects customs)
— Decrease landing lag on NAir.
— Move sweetspot on FAir/BAir to her foot, along with moving the GFX to match. That both buffs the moves' effective range (since the sourspot hit is about as good as not having hit at all in terms of hitstun caused) and makes actually landing the sweetspots more intuitive for first-time Zelda players.
— Slightly decrease UAir startup.
— Decrease jab startup.
— Slightly decrease DTilt endlag.
— Increase DSmash range/knockback? Maybe?
— Slightly increase standing grab range.
— Global engine change: Remove sliding with teleport moves.

Ganondorf:
— Increase vertical height and horizontal mobility of Up Special. (Affects customs)
— Increase damage and knockback of Dark Dive grab. (Affects Dark Vault custom)
— Increase height gain during grab release of Dark Dive. (Affects Dark Vault custom)
— Greatly increase damage and knockback of the darkness hit at the top of Dark Dive, making it a kill move.
— Increase damage of Wizard's Foot (affects customs).
— Increase FSmash's range, giving it some disjoint, and increase the size of the darkness GFX to match.
— Add visible darkness effect to FAir, increasing its range.
— Add visible darkness effect to Jab, increasing its range.
— Slightly decrease Jab and DTilt startup.
— Increase grab range.

Mii Gunner:
— Improve Charge Blast's damage and knockback, and make it chargeable in the air.

Mii Swordfighter:
— Slightly increase startup on Chakram to prevent infinites.

Robin:
— Increase range on Dash Attack.
— Increase grab range.

EDIT:

Ness/Lucas:
— Make PK Fire dissipate normally when clanking with hitboxes that out-prioritize it, instead of going off. Basically, the same nerf the Mii Gunner's Grenade Launch got.
 
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LancerStaff

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If we're talking balance patches:

Pit:
— Increase horizontal air speed so his aerials can actually do work.
Wouldn't do much since Pit's more about rising aerials and CQC SH aerials then leaping at opponents with how his landing lag and autocancels are. And since they've never touched a character's attributes such as air speed it's a pipe dream.

Pit doesn't need much besides QoL stuff at this point.
 

JamietheAuraUser

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Wouldn't do much since Pit's more about rising aerials and CQC SH aerials then leaping at opponents with how his landing lag and autocancels are. And since they've never touched a character's attributes such as air speed it's a pipe dream.

Pit doesn't need much besides QoL stuff at this point.
Increased horizontal air speed would let Pit chain FAirs for offstage kills or make NAir > FAir a more reliable thing. I suppose it's true that it's a pipe dream though. Also, I've personally found that startup and landing lag on FAir is slightly too high for him to SH FAir anyone other than Rosalina, but maybe I've just not done enough research into the character.

Speaking of QoL stuff for Pit/Dark Pit: Set SDI multiplier on first hit of FSmash to x0, and make the knockback angle more horizontal or possibly even downward. It really, really annoys me when I land the first hit of FSmash clean on a grounded opponent at kill percents, only for the CPU to pop up and entirely over the second hit. And it happens far too often.
 
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:4dedede: and :4mewtwo:plz

Dedede's gone through the whole game only being nerfed early on. Give my main man some respectable frame data already.

And yeah, find a way, any way to buff Mewtwo so I can reliably play him in tourney.
 
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LancerStaff

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Increased horizontal air speed would let Pit chain FAirs for offstage kills or make NAir > FAir a more reliable thing. I suppose it's true that it's a pipe dream though. Also, I've personally found that startup and landing lag on FAir is slightly too high for him to SH FAir anyone other than Rosalina, but maybe I've just not done enough research into the character.

Speaking of QoL stuff for Pit/Dark Pit: Set SDI multiplier on first hit of FSmash to x0, and make the knockback angle more horizontal or possibly even downward. It really, really annoys me when I land the first hit of FSmash clean on a grounded opponent at kill percents, only for the CPU to pop up and entirely over the second hit. And it happens far too often.
You should be SHFFing Fairs or at least not beating them out as fast as possible against shorter characters. Pretty sure a normal SHFF Fair gets every hit in on Mario at least, so you're exaggerating a bit. Not exactly a big deal since Pit outranges the shorties besides Olimar pretty hard.

Yeah, Fsmash could use some attention. An attack like this really shouldn't be failing... I can't help but think rage is the culprit, but it wouldn't be hard to fix anyway. But besides that it'd be cool if there was some shieldstun modifiers or something on the first hit.
 

JamietheAuraUser

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You should be SHFFing Fairs or at least not beating them out as fast as possible against shorter characters. Pretty sure a normal SHFF Fair gets every hit in on Mario at least, so you're exaggerating a bit. Not exactly a big deal since Pit outranges the shorties besides Olimar pretty hard.

Yeah, Fsmash could use some attention. An attack like this really shouldn't be failing... I can't help but think rage is the culprit, but it wouldn't be hard to fix anyway. But besides that it'd be cool if there was some shieldstun modifiers or something on the first hit.
Interestingly, Pit's FSmash had the exact same problem in Brawl: level 6 or 7 CPUs would very frequently SDI up on the first hit of FSmash, causing the second hit to whiff. It almost feels like the changed animation and increased delay between hits/endlag in Smash 4 is a deliberate move to make that same tactic — that is, SDI up on the first hit to avoid the second hit and punish Pit for properly placing a kill move — still work despite the global nerf to SDI and seemingly increased hitstun.

As for my Pit FAir troubles, I suspect that my problem is that I'm either starting them too early (and thus whiffing over the foe's head) or starting too late (and thus touching the ground just barely before the first hit comes out). Also, for some reason I can't seem to get a fast-fall input to work during the startup of the move (or any aerial, for that matter). I hit forward + A, immediately circle the control stick down, and nothing.

Anywho, it does kinda annoy me that with characters like Pit and Meta Knight I can't rising FAir > midair jump FAir > midair jump FAir the opponent off the stage when they're dumb enough to approach with a full jump. I mean, I once did that with Mii Brawler, but Pit and Meta Knight, who are supposed to be masters of aerial, can't do it because either they don't have enough horizontal air speed (Pit's problem) or because there's a random boatload of endlag on that move for no real reason (Meta Knight's problem). Granted, even if Meta Knight's FAir didn't have all the endlag in the universe I might still find that he doesn't have enough horizontal air speed to pull it off anyway.

Speaking of that, why DOES MK's FAir have so much endlag/landing lag? Its damage output is horrible (BAir does more damage), its reach isn't very good (BAir has more reach), and it doesn't have KO potential (BAir KOs quite handily). So what's the deal? Its knockback is just barely high enough for a "get off me" move, except that Meta Knight doesn't want one of those anyway (he wants to get in and stay in), it's an aerial with short reach ("get off me" moves are usually better as ground attacks, and good reach is necessary if it's gonna be an aerial), and it has enough endlag and landing lag that Meta Knight isn't really going to get any respite using it anyway! You take a character with multiple midair jumps (which means he automatically turns around if he midair jumps backwards) and you gimp him with a *****y FAir like this! A good BAir is all very nice, but since he automatically turns around if he midair jumps backwards it's difficult for him to get use out of it.

So I guess that goes on the list of things I would want in a balance patch:
Meta Knight:
— Significantly decrease endlag and landing lag on FAir.
— Global engine change: revert input buffer to function as it did in Brawl. (Indirectly buffs Meta Knight by making mashing for Mach Tornado significantly easier.)
 
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