Semi-Adv. Technique? - Inputting attacks before they are performed.

[Randofu]

This doesn't sound like an advanced technique to me... It sounds like it was really put in for the more casual player, so that they don't have to be as precise with their timing. Of course, it's still important for pros to be aware of, but I doubt that you can do anything special with it other than reduce your delay as much as possible (but pros should be able to get the timing down anyway).

 

[Speedsk8er]

This reminds me of charge-buffering from Street Fighter. Good find

 

[Japanese Monk]

I really would like to see a video. This intrigues me.

 

[Doc Chronic]

yea, this sounds way more viable than alot of the supposed "adv. techs" people have been proposing for the last few weeks

 

[John5]

In like every other fighter, this is called buffering. As in you buffer (or enter early) the commands for the next move, before the current one finishes.

Edit: Whops someone already said it. Ignore me.

 

[Ryan-K]

Now that I actually have the game in my personal possession, I've learned this is the result of that mechanic. Not only does the mechanic work for aerial attacks (only low lag aerials, as I've stated before), it buffers any input placed within about 5-10 frames prior to landing (aerial attack or a simple jump) . You can buffer a grab (with Z) or simply buffer a dash, jump or crouch. Doing this on hit, however, is less practical since the hitstun makes the timing stringent enough to negate the effort of trying to buffer -- you might as well just time your follow up normally.

Yeah, I noticed brawl is wierd too. You can do things such as buffer a sidestep like l cancelling into one in melee. However, is buffering only for aerials/landing? I don't have the game but I noticed some wierd things happening in the air since you tend to have the most inputs in a single action in the air. If you could buffer actions after jabs/tilts/smashes/grabs/whatever then I guess it could be interesting -shrug-.

 

[SynikaL]

Yeah, I noticed brawl is wierd too. You can do things such as buffer a sidestep like l cancelling into one in melee. However, is buffering only for aerials/landing? I don't have the game but I noticed some wierd things happening in the air since you tend to have the most inputs in a single action in the air. If you could buffer actions after jabs/tilts/smashes/grabs/whatever then I guess it could be interesting -shrug-.

I'm sure there's other buffers at work, but that's all that stands out to me ATM.

I know for sure that Shield Buffers such as Roll and Side Step (out of hitstun for i.e.,) are gone.


-Kimosabae

 

[bayonettrials]

i like moosh-rush better than buffering...

Well of course you do, senor elitist.

Around here we don't name techs after their creator.

Especially one as seemingly useful as this.

 

[Ryan-K]

Yeah I noticed that was gone.

The only annoying thing is that it seems impossible to buffer a smash from jabs since c stick basically makes you do whatever attack you would normally do by pressing A in a given situation (ex: dash attack, rapid jabs)

 

[Zauron]

This isn't an advanced technique, its standard input buffering and is done in many, many games. I add it to every game I've programmed. Its also not a new discovery - my group noticed this weeks ago, but found it to be a negative more than anything. It means, for example, if you double-tap a direction while blocking, you will roll twice. In Melee you would roll once, so tapping the direction multiple times was a habit we had formed to make sure the roll would go through. Same thing with many other moves. Now this habit works against us, causing us to perform moves we didn't mean to because the move has been queued up because we pressed the input more than once. One member of my group hates this feature so much he stopped playing Brawl altogether because his character kept doing moves that were queued up that he did not expect.

The worst one is turning around just after doing something when you didn't intend to turn around, but it just queued up a tap in the opposite direction from a previous move, and then you do a nuetral attack and you are facing the wrong way. I kept shooting Lucario's Nuetral-B the wrong way because I would dodge backwards then fire, and the dodge backwards I would tap twice out of habit and when the dodge ended, the second tap would cause him to turn around and then he'd shoot the wrong way.

Its nothing to get excited about and doesn't allow you to do anything you couldn't do before, its just a control convenience (once you adapt to it) that you don't have to wait for the precise moment to do another action, you can "queue" the action a bit early and it will go through when the opportunity comes up.

 

[Lefticle]

Well of course you do, senor elitist.

Around here we don't name techs after their creator.

Especially one as seemingly useful as this.

WOBBLING.

KEN COMBO.

DA DASH.

 

[Speedsk8er]

We should have guessed buffering was in ever since we got this update, now that I think about it.

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/howto/technique/technique02.html

 

[Ryan-K]

The first 2 are combos named for convenience.

Most people call DA dash pivoting anyway.

Also moosh rush is just a ******** sounding name for something that is common in alot of games.

 

[bayonettrials]

WOBBLING.

KEN COMBO.

DA DASH.

Touche,

Well played.

But I'll ask two questions:

How many techs are there in melee/brawl?

How many are named after their creator?

Edit:

We should have guessed buffering was in ever since we got this update, now that I think about it.

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/howto/technique/technique02.html

Lol "This guy needs to calm down."

 

[Mama]

This isn't an advanced technique, its standard input buffering and is done in many, many games. I add it to every game I've programmed. Its also not a new discovery - my group noticed this weeks ago, but found it to be a negative more than anything. It means, for example, if you double-tap a direction while blocking, you will roll twice. In Melee you would roll once, so tapping the direction multiple times was a habit we had formed to make sure the roll would go through. Same thing with many other moves. Now this habit works against us, causing us to perform moves we didn't mean to because the move has been queued up because we pressed the input more than once. One member of my group hates this feature so much he stopped playing Brawl altogether because his character kept doing moves that were queued up that he did not expect.

Its nothing to get excited about and doesn't allow you to do anything you couldn't do before, its just a control convenience (once you adapt to it) that you don't have to wait for the precise moment to do another action, you can "queue" the action a bit early and it will go through when the opportunity comes up.

Interesting. Though I think the problem with your friend is patience. I like to think things through as I go. Maybe this can be used as a positive in some situations, who knows.

 

[slikvik]

FYI kids, this is called "buffering" in every other fighting game EVER since they EXISTED.

Never forget that.

what this guy said

 

[SamuraiPanda]

The smash back room discovered this awhile ago. Its very effective for aerials, and most effective by airdodging into the ground and inputting an attack (with timing similar to L-canceling) so it comes out immediately.

 

[cobaltblue]

I think in the right hands characters like Sonic who rely on quick hit combos could become devistating. Assuming the player could keep up, it could sky rocket his rank on the "theoritcal" tier list.

But this is just the view point of a sonic nut who hasn't touched brawal or even watched match vids yet.

 

[super-7]

The smash back room discovered this awhile ago. Its very effective for aerials, and most effective by airdodging into the ground and inputting an attack (with timing similar to L-canceling) so it comes out immediately.

so basically your saying that when u do your aerial u air dodge and input attack will cancel the lag but carry on with your attack?

 

[Randofu]

We should have guessed buffering was in ever since we got this update, now that I think about it.

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/howto/technique/technique02.html

This post got me thinking... I think Melee had buffering for the basic A moves for some characters. I might be wrong about this, but without actually picking up the game I feel like this is what occasionally leads me into Captain Falcon's laggy last basic A move, even when I don't want to.

I could easily be wrong. I'm not really trying to make excuses.

 

[JustinAC]

Does this mean that I can sidestep dodge and in the middle of the dodge tap up on the C stick so that I do a smash immediatly after the dodge ends? That's pretty snazzy if so.

 

[Ryan-K]

This post got me thinking... I think Melee had buffering for the basic A moves for some characters. I might be wrong about this, but without actually picking up the game I feel like this is what occasionally leads me into Captain Falcon's laggy last basic A move, even when I don't want to.

I could easily be wrong. I'm not really trying to make excuses.

No CF's rapid jabs just acted wierd. However in PAL it was supposedly easier to just get the knee in the jabs off without the others.

 

[BentoBox]

Would that also work while air dodging? Say you're chasing someone off-stage and anticipate an attack so you decide to dodge and counter asap~

 

[Puppet Master]

Would that also work while air dodging? Say you're chasing someone off-stage and anticipate an attack so you decide to dodge and counter asap~

now THAT sounds like a good use of this technique

 

[SynikaL]

The buffer frames are only available on the ground.


-Syn

 

[Puppet Master]

The buffer frames are only available on the ground.


-Syn

god ****it

 

[Magus420]

This post got me thinking... I think Melee had buffering for the basic A moves for some characters. I might be wrong about this, but without actually picking up the game I feel like this is what occasionally leads me into Captain Falcon's laggy last basic A move, even when I don't want to.

I could easily be wrong. I'm not really trying to make excuses.

Yes, he has buffer windows on his jabs as do others.

 

[AlphaDragoon2002]

The smash back room discovered this awhile ago. Its very effective for aerials, and most effective by airdodging into the ground and inputting an attack (with timing similar to L-canceling) so it comes out immediately.

This is why I wish everyone could look at the stuff in the Back Room, even if they can't post in there.

 

[DRaGZ]

w00t! Smash Bros. finally has buffering.

 

[lain]

this doesn't seem that useful. only a way of being lazier to do combos you're sure that will work

this is only really helpful if you're doing a combo and know something will hit if you input the next one (i.e. doing a shine while you're dairing with fox) ((of course i don't even know if that's an actual combo anymore))

moosh rush sounds dumb. buffering sounds fine.


nice find though.

 

[Marty]

Perhaps this explains why holding A rapidly jabs until it connects.

 

[Jinx]

I'd bet a pretty penny this is just IASA frames.

How much exactly do you want to bet? =P

I think this is already called DLX hit cancel.

Someone found it already.

No. First off, "DLX hit cancel" wasn't discovered by DLX and has another name somewhere on SWF. Second, this "hit cancel" that you're talking about is following up a Dash A/Running A attack immediately with an Up Smash, which is NOT what this aerial "buffering" technique is.

The smash back room discovered this awhile ago. Its very effective for aerials, and most effective by airdodging into the ground and inputting an attack (with timing similar to L-canceling) so it comes out immediately.

Moosh & I discovered this a while ago as well, but neither of us got around to making a thread until now. =P Also, not all of us have access to the SBR. =\

This doesn't sound like an advanced technique to me... It sounds like it was really put in for the more casual player, so that they don't have to be as precise with their timing. Of course, it's still important for pros to be aware of, but I doubt that you can do anything special with it other than reduce your delay as much as possible (but pros should be able to get the timing down anyway).

Read the title: "Semi-advanced technique?" He even added a question mark at the end b/c he wasn't sure if it was even a SEMI-advanced technique.

this doesn't seem that useful. only a way of being lazier to do combos you're sure that will work

this is only really helpful if you're doing a combo and know something will hit if you input the next one (i.e. doing a shine while you're dairing with fox) ((of course i don't even know if that's an actual combo anymore))

moosh rush sounds dumb. buffering sounds fine.


nice find though.

So you've been messing around with this and don't find it useful? B/c if you haven't done any testing/research on this (with more emphasis on the actual testing part), your comments/thoughts on it don't carry much weight. I'm not trying to sound mean in saying this, I'm just saying that people commenting on usefulness without having tried/tested it themselves is pretty pointless.

*Edit* Nice post btw Synikal.

 

[Itakio]

Don't know if this has been said yet but it IS sort of an l-cancel. Normally, you would need to wait until the move actually ended to do the move, right? Unless you are a perfect human being, you would be at least a few frames off from the exact end of the move, so assuming this does an action as soon is possible, it becomes a lag cancel, the lag being unnecessary "idle" frames.

 

[Jinx]

Don't know if this has been said yet but it IS sort of an l-cancel. Normally, you would need to wait until the move actually ended to do the move, right? Unless you are a perfect human being, you would be at least a few frames off from the exact end of the move, so assuming this does an action as soon is possible, it becomes a lag cancel, the lag being unnecessary "idle" frames.

It's not canceling anything though, so it's not really an l-cancel by definition. But I agree with you on your last statement, that it does let you avoid the "unnecessary idle frames.".

 

[MrLegend]

I think in the right hands characters like Sonic who rely on quick hit combos could become devistating. Assuming the player could keep up, it could sky rocket his rank on the "theoritcal" tier list.

But this is just the view point of a sonic nut who hasn't touched brawal or even watched match vids yet.

I've seen buffering work on Sonic's Uair to Fair in one video before. I don't think it was that useful. Not enough to SKY ROCKET his rank.

Of course, if it is only done on the ground, I'm probably just seeing a blazingly fast input.

 

[CO18]

This seems rather interesting, im sure it will come to good use although some people may think otherwise.

 

[controlfreak7]

So what i see here is the use of this is to have attacks be timed automatically by putting the commands in earlier rather than making you learn the timing of when u can do the next attack.

But, it doesn't increase the speed of the preinputted attacks?

Everytime i see that a new find simplifies the game it kind of annoys me. Like jc smashing took time to learn in melee and hyphen smashing is just doing the samething only when u're dashing...

The new concept of sweetspotting is another example of this.


So if this is true this can be the key to proving the infinite wall shine in brawl true or false? Because i heard it was debunked because u could di out of it, but the video didn't actually demonstrate it. But if infinite shining is possible this should prove it correct?

 

[Itakio]

Do you need to release any buttons before this "buffering" comes into effect? Because if not, it would explain why you can just hold A and do a whole bunch of jabs, I think. I could be missing something since I don't have the game.

 

[lengeta]

I can confirm buffering. One of the easiest ways of doing it is starting Falco's laser hop, and while spamming the 'B' button hold down. The moment you hit the ground your reflector attack will start.

Sorry I don't have a better video, but: Video link.

I won't be able to actually test this either, not until next weekend at least, and I'll probably forget to.
(Sorry if I'm a little late, curse YouTube's re-encoding.)

 

[masterbraz]

sounds like in fifa how you can already setup ur next pass before the character even gets the ball-random anaology but same concept. Anyone know what im talkin bout?

This would be pretty cool if it not only works, but can be dependable(works 100 percent of the time)