Meta Secrets of the Umbra: Bayonetta Metagame Discussion

[Megamang]

Who does Bayo have trouble with besides Diddy?

Im looking for a secondary for Mega, and for right now the biggest obstacle is definitely Bayonetta. I don't really feel like TL is the answer nor is he actually that good vs Bayo; I predict in the future his item confirms will get him Witch Time'd more frequently and his recovery will continue to get gimped (which bayo is either the best or 2nd best at) worse and worse as we get better as a community.

How does Marth do? I thought it seemed good, he has the disjoint to challenge her huge limbs, high damage, strong neutral, great OoS turnaround punish in DB, good early combos, his grab game is actually scary for Bayo, AND he can counter bullets to get a free stun jacket -> free jab -> fsmash tipper true combo...

But the Marth boards claim Bayo is his worst MU. Is this because he is floaty and thus dies intensely early? Because my SDI has, as far as my experience has shown, gotten good enough to make floaties survivable surprisingly long vs bayo (unless she gets a witch time) Is Marth good enough that 'worst MU' isn't that bad at all, and he can take on Bayo? How much better would Marth have to be than Bayo to win, if at all? I prefer this explanation to MU ratios, which can basically mean anything.


Thanks in advance. And Buuuump

 

[Fenny]

Who does Bayo have trouble with besides Diddy?

Im looking for a secondary for Mega, and for right now the biggest obstacle is definitely Bayonetta. I don't really feel like TL is the answer nor is he actually that good vs Bayo; I predict in the future his item confirms will get him Witch Time'd more frequently and his recovery will continue to get gimped (which bayo is either the best or 2nd best at) worse and worse as we get better as a community.

How does Marth do? I thought it seemed good, he has the disjoint to challenge her huge limbs, high damage, strong neutral, great OoS turnaround punish in DB, good early combos, his grab game is actually scary for Bayo, AND he can counter bullets to get a free stun jacket -> free jab -> fsmash tipper true combo...

But the Marth boards claim Bayo is his worst MU. Is this because he is floaty and thus dies intensely early? Because my SDI has, as far as my experience has shown, gotten good enough to make floaties survivable surprisingly long vs bayo (unless she gets a witch time) Is Marth good enough that 'worst MU' isn't that bad at all, and he can take on Bayo? How much better would Marth have to be than Bayo to win, if at all? I prefer this explanation to MU ratios, which can basically mean anything.


Thanks in advance. And Buuuump

Luigi's an excellent secondary for Bayo imo.

Provided your advantage is good enough, Luigi steamrolls her the moment he gets in because of the asinine reward he gets on her off of grab. His Nair can break some of her combos before she can really get going, Fireball is a good spacing tool (when it isn't getting Witch Time'd, depends how much the Bayo values the slow effect compared to its invincibility frames) and Green Tornado is stupidly potent at gimping her. She has a losing record against Luigi players in general because her disadvantage against him is so bad.

I highly doubt Bayo is Marth's worst matchup, for essentially all the reasons you mentioned. Not to mention his Counter gives him a means to actually gimp her recovery - or at least make it substantially harder for her to get back on stage. As someone who secondaries Marth (just because he's fun to play - not really out of necessity lol) I find Sheik and ZSS to both be harder for him.

 

[Flamegeyser]

You think Luigi beats her? The Luigis think that she's their worst mu according to my Luigi friend. He's got a great grab game and can control space but his limbs aren't very long, we can WTw out of combos, and he gets huge shield pushback for getting aerially spaced.Meanwhile the Luigi not only has to be good to gimp bayo but the bayo has to not mix up her recovery, either, and she can gimp him too. The bayos might have a losing record against the luigis in top level but you can just look and see, a bayo who knows what they're doing can shut down what Luigi wants just as hard.

As for other bad MUs she has a few evens and maybe some losses. Pika can be hard since he's small and has practically no DA state, but also extends his hurboxes often and is WTi food. Mario, M2, Greninja, and a few others can give her trouble thanks to having as much good on her as she has on them. If you're inclined not to believe what I said (which I doubt sometimes) Luigi is even to slightly losing. Bayo's good enough that you can solo main her even through bad matchups, what little their are.

 

[Fenny]

lmao I find Luigi harder than Mario myself

maybe it's just Elegant being busted

 

[Flamegeyser]

lmao I find Luigi harder than Mario myself

maybe it's just Elegant being busted

Elegant is super good at the mu, and it seems like no one else is. Even still, one person is not the mile marker for the mu.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

I think luigi is worse than mario, not saying that he's a losing matchup.

In other talk, RIP duckhunt wall clinging :'( I never thought of how funny it would be to wall cling camp someone, it's too late now.

BUT we have omega wily's castle apparently. Should we being going to that for our FD pick? or not because we can't get as cheesy of stage spikes as opposed to a slanted stage.