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Secrets of The Seven Sages: Link's Brainstorming Thread, Complete AT list and Combos

TriforceOSM

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 10, 2010
Messages
32
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USA: Texas: Houston: Liberty Creek Trail
Ohh my bad, I didn't check before posting. It's definitely something players take for granted then, cause I never see it being used. I just figured it out today and since I never seen it used I assumed it hasn't been found lol.

Yah sorry about that lol, but I feel it should be used more by Link mains. It's extremely hard to time, so I can see why it hasn't.
 

Zane the pure

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
519
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The Hyperbolic "Do Work" chamber
Did anybody ever end up testing whether Link can pull off the infinite banana lock on Diddy without fastfalling?
He can, his poor aerial movement makes it tricky, but as long as you watch your inputs and which direction Diddy trips and Link can keep it going until his footstool stales.
After that I'd imagine you'd wanna fastfall really close to diddy and mash jump for another shorthop footstool to continue the lock, rinse and repeat.
 

Anonano

is the mano, ya know?
Joined
Jul 25, 2008
Messages
1,769
Location
Utah
I really liked the boomerang->jab->SH reverse boomerang->jab infinite. Too bad it's easy to tech the boomerang or we'd have a true infinite on our hands, ha ha :p
 

Karaoke Man

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
182
Location
Columbus, Ohio
The best use for wind pushing opponents is to edge guard from across the stage, instead of something like SHing an arrow.
Although this was posted a loooong time ago, I am going to disagree with this statement.

I mean it has it's properties to knock the opponent down or blow people away. it does have it's uses, but honestly the Wind Pushing is hardly even reliable 90% of the time for any type of spacing. As an offensive tool, the Gale Boomerang sucks. That's okay though I'm going to explain more thoroughly on how the Gale Boomerang works and how it should be used.


So we know that the Gale Boomerang pulls just about anything with it on it's returning course back to Link. I see a lot of Link players randomly throwing it out as some sort of "wall" either hoping to get lucky and score a hit (Which is fine at close range) or to try to push them a couple inches away for some reason which doesn't help in the slightest because the opponent can just shield it lol. Ultimately, making Link's camp game almost laughable. Randomly throwing your Boomerang at your opponent when they are on the the opposite side of the stage doesn't do anything.. but there is a reason for this though:

It was never designed for that purpose to to begin with. However, the Gale Boomerang is the very thing that is missing from his pressure game. The "missing Link" to Link's entire combo system.


The thing everyone needs to know is not to throw the Boomerang AT the opponent, but behind them and there's definitely a few ways to do it which I will post in a moment. You guys were saying that Link isn't very mobile and can't really approach which is true with the exception of Bombsliding/Zair, but if you have your boomerang behind the opponent, you literally don't even have to because the opponent is in a mental struggle on whether he should deal with the Boomerang or whether he should deal with you. The key here is; With this in mind, Link is essentially being in 2 places at the same time. That doesn't even include what you already utilize with bombs and arrows yet.

I want to point out that Rizen made a great Link guide (I saw the whole thing) and it was very, verrrry informative and I give major props to it all cause' it definitely helped me. I will say that there is truth in "flooding the screen with projectiles", but the most important thing in that is how you do it.

As long as your Boomerang is behind your opponent and you respond accordingly, all of the moves you thought you couldn't follow-up with becomes your follow up options. You guessed it; The Boomerang acts more as some sort of fish net reeling in runaway fish. Both stopping and dragging anything with momentum or hitstun back to your position.

While on the ground in mid-long distances, you'll want to throw the Boomerang in the upwards angle at all times. Of course it won't be hitting anything, but your "fish net" is all set up. All you need now are your bait. Predominantly, your bombs are the bait that you are using to fish with as well, but all of Link's otherwise "laggy" moves will now all string together as long as your Wind Net (lets just call it that for now lol) is set up. This opens up maaaaany possibilities for Link. Here are a few:

Both sides of Dsmash will hit if you time it correctly
Dtilt becomes your best friend.
Automatically sets up into jab lock unless they tech.
From the jab lock, can hit them with another close range Boomerang on wake up....and reset the jab lock lmao.
With good timing, you can throw a bomb in the air before your Wind Net catches them from your attack and can follow up as the bomb explodes on them.
Double Dtilt 100% viable
Honestly, you can probably follow up with whatever you want with all this in mind.


I mean yeah, Link has booty options if you look at character statistics, but every single character has a particular strength. Link's in this case is Assertive-Protective stage control. You cannot plank this kind of play. Toon Link may have the mobility, but since Link has this Wind Net on his Gale Boomerang, he's literally the only character in the game capable of this sort of "momentum-stringing".


Also, Rizner mentioned the "wind push" eons earlier in this thread and I did say that it has it's uses, but I'll show you guys another (potentially new..) way to make it work.
Phantom Boomerang and Gale Guarding are both fairly defensive AT's, but I wonder what would happen if you were able to do this on stage?? Hmm..



Introducing my offensive version of this: Gale Storming
#copyright

Unlike the Gale Guarding and Phantom Boomerang, this all happens on stage and will basically protect you buy throwing off your opponent's spacing. It may even drag them across the entire stage depending on the weight and position of the character.

How you do it is basically: Instead of throwing the Gale Boomerang at the opponent, you're actually going to throw it in the opposite direction and then jump over the Gale Boomerang just before it returns to Link. I'm pretty sure every single one of you have done this by accident at some point in your experience.

What you're doing here is messing with the "repulsion and attraction" physics of the Gale Boomerang. By throwing it in the opposite direction it will return to Link, but whenever it returns, the winds actually get about 3x times stronger which is why it is able to drag things along with it. But.... When you jump over the returning Boomerang you threw in the opposite direction, the "pull" factor from the wind essentially becomes the "push" factor because now it's rushing itself towards the opponent instead.

It can still be disrupted by the usual things, but it will throw off their spacing if it connects successfully.

May not be in the greeeetest quality, but you can see a few example here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GW5bHhHknc

Another example of his strength in stage control. Of course, these weren't against against any actual players (but has been pretty effective.) just some ideas that I hadddd

"2-Way Deadlock": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni26OHSbL14
"Hylian Deadlock": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VjC_h1o--k


Maybe some of you already knew about things mentioned in this post or not, idk since I'm pretty new to the Link boards. Link probably has more AT's than Yoshi does and that's saying something.

Enjoyyyyyy.











 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,898
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Colorado
^My concerns with some of these things are...
The thing everyone needs to know is not to throw the Boomerang AT the opponent, but behind them and there's definitely a few ways to do it which I will post in a moment.

While on the ground in mid-long distances, you'll want to throw the Boomerang in the upwards angle at all times. Of course it won't be hitting anything, but your "fish net" is all set up.

If Link throws his BRang at the opponent then they have to react to it as soon as it's out. If it hits then Link can try for a jab or arrow lock. If the opponent dodges Link can frame trap and the BRang is still coming back.
If he throws upward in a manner that won't hit opponents they can rush him.
Introducing my offensive version of this: Gale Storming

How you do it is basically: Instead of throwing the Gale Boomerang at the opponent, you're actually going to throw it in the opposite direction and then jump over the Gale Boomerang just before it returns to Link. I'm pretty sure every single one of you have done this by accident at some point in your experience.

What you're doing here is messing with the "repulsion and attraction" physics of the Gale Boomerang. By throwing it in the opposite direction it will return to Link, but whenever it returns, the winds actually get about 3x times stronger which is why it is able to drag things along with it. But.... When you jump over the returning Boomerang you threw in the opposite direction, the "pull" factor from the wind essentially becomes the "push" factor because now it's rushing itself towards the opponent instead.

The thing with this is that to throw a boomerang it takes about 37 frames and the hitbox comes out on frame 26. 37 frames is a long time that the opponent can rush Link. The reason the BRang isn't a bad projectile despite all the windup is it stays on screen a long time and returns.
If you throw at the opponent Link can (in order from near to far) hit with BRang>jab lock, hit>arrow lock, hit and frame trap with other projectiles or Zair, push the opponent with the ending wind. Then the boomerang returns with only wind for combos or to help with crossovers.
If Link throws it behind him then only the return part happens and Link is vulnerable with no cover. Link also misses out on a lot of lock and frame trap opportunities.
Also instead of limiting the opponent's actions it forces Link to dodge or do something to stop the catch animation.

Link's wind is always the same strength, it just doesn't come out until the end of the forward reach. Then it stays out coming back but the hit box is lost.

All of what Link does with his BRang is to support spacing. Pushing is something to be aware of at the end of the outward extent of BRang's reach but it's very situational and uncommon.
 
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Karaoke Man

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
182
Location
Columbus, Ohio
^My concerns with some of these things are...

If Link throws his BRang at the opponent then they have to react to it as soon as it's out. If it hits then Link can try for a jab or arrow lock. If the opponent dodges Link can frame trap and the BRang is still coming back.
If he throws upward in a manner that won't hit opponents they can rush him.

The thing with this is that to throw a boomerang it takes about 37 frames and the hitbox comes out on frame 26. 37 frames is a long time that the opponent can rush Link. The reason the BRang isn't a bad projectile despite all the windup is it stays on screen a long time and returns.
If you throw at the opponent Link can (in order from near to far) hit with BRang>jab lock, hit>arrow lock, hit and frame trap with other projectiles or Zair, push the opponent with the ending wind. Then the boomerang returns with only wind for combos or to help with crossovers.
If Link throws it behind him then only the return part happens and Link is vulnerable with no cover. Link also misses out on a lot of lock and frame trap opportunities.
Also instead of limiting the opponent's actions it forces Link to dodge or do something to stop the catch animation.

Link's wind is always the same strength, it just doesn't come out until the end of the forward reach. Then it stays out coming back but the hit box is lost.

All of what Link does with his BRang is to support spacing. Pushing is something to be aware of at the end of the outward extent of BRang's reach but it's very situational and uncommon.
They actually don't have to react to it at all. They can just shield it and then they'll rush you. What I'm saying is that if you have a bomb in your hand while doing this 2 things are happening:

1.) Your opponent won't be rushing you due to the uncertainty of what you're going to do with the bomb. Also, SH-Zcatch-Fair (we'll just call this BombFair for short) is absolutely delicious.
2.) The Boomerang is in that angle for a reason, but I didn't explain that very well cause' it was like 3 AM at the time; when you throw it upwards from the ground, it's another way of throwing it behind them. Your Boomerang is supposed to catch any opponent you send flying and bring them back to you. If you used the Heavy throw, this is especially where bombs are a effective the higher their percent is. If Link is on the opposite end of the stage (assuming both players are grounded) the SH-down angled Boomerang will will bounce far enough off the ground where the offense part of the boomerang won't hit them, but it'll be going just a little beyond the back of their head. I.E. behind them.
Here some examples of the strings you can do since I forgot to put it there last night: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nna4xDod4Zk

Also, I think SH/FH-Boomerang gets thrown faster than the standing version. I could be wrong though.
 
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N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣

不自然な不道徳な中空デミ神〜
Joined
Mar 29, 2012
Messages
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Honestly, what MX is typing would work, however, it would have to be perfectly timed really, and the opponent would have to be surprised, because If he sees it coming, then well damage time towards Link and the Meter. Need to use Boomerang in a whole new different way, Wave bounce Boomerangs, to jumps, to zair after, just think really.

Full hop Boomerang, and use Link's second jump towards whatsoever a Link main would desire to use.

Example, Full Hop Boomerang facing downward, and using Link's second jump to pull out bomb to an Arrow cancel and so on. Link mains need to focus more on getting out of Link's projectile uses, abuse everything and create something. Understanding Gale is pointless, just focus towards using it in a shield pressure stun and stuff.

Anyone want to brawl?
 
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Karaoke Man

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
182
Location
Columbus, Ohio
Honestly, what MX is typing would work, however, it would have to be perfectly timed really, and the opponent would have to be surprised, because If he sees it coming, then well damage time towards Link and the Meter. Need to use Boomerang in a whole new different way, Wave bounce Boomerangs, to jumps, to zair after, just think really.

Full hop Boomerang, and use Link's second jump towards whatsoever a Link main would desire to use.

Example, Full Hop Boomerang facing downward, and using Link's second jump to pull out bomb to an Arrow cancel and so on. Link mains need to focus more on getting out of Link's projectile uses, abuse everything and create something. Understanding Gale is pointless, just focus towards using it in a shield pressure stun and stuff.

Anyone want to brawl?
Understanding Gale is not pointless
Disregarding any creative use for it is a concious limitation that YOU put on the character.

People disregarding mechanics/tools much like the Gale Boomerang is the reason why hardly any of the metagames really grow. I see a lot of people have this really, really defeatist mindset and that's what really plumments like half the cast outside of Meta Knight and even that has it's limits somewhere.

Creativity and imagination is what builds Metagames!

People need to accept that this Boomerang isn't the same one from 64 or Melee. While it still maintains similar uses, it's fundamentally different from the older Boomerang that's been shown prior. It has a wind gale on it for a reason.

The initial objective isn't to have Link thorw the boomerang at the opponent; It's to have the opponent between the Boomerang and Link.

Btw, if you have the position set up in exactly the way I mentioned above and your hold shield, you put your opponent in a position where he's not totally sure what to do, but you can react to the way that he responds to the scenario. Because either way it goes, it will put Link in a good position.

If you don't use Boomerang correctly, you aren't using the full potential of the character. It's like being Pokemon Trainer and only using Squirtle; There are things that not even Squirtle can do, but Ivysaur/Charizard can.
 

Karaoke Man

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
182
Location
Columbus, Ohio
Understanding Gale is not pointless
Disregarding any creative use for it is a concious limitation that YOU put on the character.

People disregarding mechanics/tools much like the Gale Boomerang is the reason why hardly any of the metagames really grow. I see a lot of people have this really, really defeatist mindset and that's what really plumments like half the cast outside of Meta Knight and even that has it's limits somewhere.

Creativity and imagination is what builds Metagames!

People need to accept that this Boomerang isn't the same one from 64 or Melee. While it still maintains similar uses, it's fundamentally different from the older Boomerang that's been shown prior. It has a wind gale on it for a reason.

The initial objective isn't to have Link thorw the boomerang at the opponent; It's to have the opponent between the Boomerang and Link. Also, Gale Storming should only be used as a mixup from a distance. Unless you are 100% confident on what you're about to do.

Btw, if you have the position set up in exactly the way I mentioned above and your hold shield, you put your opponent in a position where he's not totally sure what to do, but you can react to the way that he responds to the scenario. Because either way it goes, it will put Link in a good position.

If you don't use Boomerang correctly, you aren't using the full potential of the character. It's like being Pokemon Trainer and only using Squirtle; There are things that not even Squirtle can do, but Ivysaur/Charizard can.

My bad for the double post. Was trying to edit the previous post, but computer was being dumb
 
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N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣

不自然な不道徳な中空デミ神〜
Joined
Mar 29, 2012
Messages
3,123
Understanding Gale is not pointless
Disregarding any creative use for it is a concious limitation that YOU put on the character.

People disregarding mechanics/tools much like the Gale Boomerang is the reason why hardly any of the metagames really grow. I see a lot of people have this really, really defeatist mindset and that's what really plumments like half the cast outside of Meta Knight and even that has it's limits somewhere.

Creativity and imagination is what builds Metagames!

People need to accept that this Boomerang isn't the same one from 64 or Melee. While it still maintains similar uses, it's fundamentally different from the older Boomerang that's been shown prior. It has a wind gale on it for a reason.

The initial objective isn't to have Link thorw the boomerang at the opponent; It's to have the opponent between the Boomerang and Link.

Btw, if you have the position set up in exactly the way I mentioned above and your hold shield, you put your opponent in a position where he's not totally sure what to do, but you can react to the way that he responds to the scenario. Because either way it goes, it will put Link in a good position.

If you don't use Boomerang correctly, you aren't using the full potential of the character. It's like being Pokemon Trainer and only using Squirtle; There are things that not even Squirtle can do, but Ivysaur/Charizard can.
Hmm, yes, that is true; however, there is nothing else to really learn. There is Rouge Gales, Wave bounce stuff and so on. Also, I've changed Link I promise you that. I use everything and more exactly. I've tested countless hours on Training mode towards doing stuff. The only problem is Wi-Fi in general, it messes my Link up. I'd be glad to show you as to what I'm ranting about. Use any character you want, even the Falco mu.

Gale Boomerang is a tool, it can be used to gimp or even hit stun to other stuff. I can promise you the way I use Gale hasn't been thought of or ever will. Typing to me that I don't experiment.

It's pointless to type to you about all the stuff I do with Link, when I can show some stuff, of course everything depends on the connection.
 
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