[Secondaries for Peach] Currently Discussing: Yoshi

[PrepareYourself]

There is a predetermined order.

SUPER BOOTY BUMP

Now discussing Yoshi.

 

[deepseadiva]

Oh, he's kindva a MK counter. :D

 

[MrEh]

Oh, he's kindva a MK counter. :D

Pff, that's just what people used to say.

Bowser does better on MK then Yoshi does. ^^

 

[PrepareYourself]

Pff, that's just what people used to say.

Bowser does better on MK then Yoshi does. ^^

Hey! You're that guy that argues every matchup in every matchup thread in all of Smashboards has the funny looking signature!

Bowser a better matchup against MK? I haven't heard of it. I thought it was Diddy > Yoshi > Marth > Bowser or something like that.

How does Yoshi do against G&W?

 

[MrEh]

Hey! You're that guy that argues every matchup in every matchup thread in all of Smashboards has the funny looking signature!

Indeed it is. ^^

Bowser a better matchup against MK? I haven't heard of it. I thought it was Diddy > Yoshi > Marth > Bowser or something like that.

MK matchups are pretty fiercely debated, so it always varies from person to person.

Personally, I think that Snake, Diddy, DK and Bowser do well. Marth and Yoshi don't do that badly, but not as well as those 4 IMO.

How does Yoshi do against G&W?

Not well IMO. The turtle ***** him pretty hard methinks.

 

[Morrigan]

You can't place consistently with Bowser. I know I said this already, I don't get the RIGHT purpose of this thread, because if you need a secondary to win just pick any SS/S or A tier. Picking an E tier wouldn't help at all I guess this serves as a "explore all your possibilities" kind of discussion, but in the end you're probably gonna end up choosing a top/high tier (competitively/tourney-wise speaking).


I like G&W as a second, too bad its matchup against MK is meh.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

You can't place consistently with Bowser. I know I said this already, I don't get the RIGHT purpose of this thread, because if you need a secondary to win just pick any SS/S or A tier. Picking an E tier wouldn't help at all I guess this serves as a "explore all your possibilities" kind of discussion, but in the end you're probably gonna end up choosing a top/high tier (competitively/tourney-wise speaking).


I like G&W as a second, too bad its matchup against MK is meh.

Technically, if you play to win, just pick the SS/S/A tier in the first place. XD

Though, I vent about power-players since I was one myself on Marvel vr.s Capcom 2. Now after I'm over that phase, I'm really happy that I'm not a power-player anymore. There's more to a game than just winning, after all.

 

[Praxis]

Hey! You're that guy that argues every matchup in every matchup thread in all of Smashboards has the funny looking signature!

Bowser a better matchup against MK? I haven't heard of it. I thought it was Diddy > Yoshi > Marth > Bowser or something like that.

How does Yoshi do against G&W?

Yoshi's overhyped against MK. If an MK knows the matchup, the Yoshi is still at a significant disadvantage; the little CG he has doesn't overcome MK's ease at gimping him and general superiority in every way. He's only useful as a surprise counter :/

Bowser does in fact do better against MK. He can grab release CG him and grab release him to aerials, like Yoshi, but he also kills at a much lower percentage and can punish MK's attacks on his shield via fortress. It's still a disadvantage for Bowser though, but he does way better than Peach.

Diddy IMO is disadvantaged once MK knows the matchup. Snake's MK's worst matchup, and different people will tell you that it's either 55-45 MK's favor or Snake's favor, depending who you ask; I consider it even at best.




As for Yoshi; he has a better MK matchup than Peach but not by enough to warrant picking him up just for MK. He does poorly against G&W; about as bad as Peach; and gets demolished by Marth, as badly or worse than Peach.

I don't see him as a good Peach secondary as his matchups are too similar, but maybe some Yoshi main will come in here and convince me otherwise. No clue how he does vs Snake...

 

[MrEh]

Bowser does in fact do better against MK. He can grab release CG him and grab release him to aerials, like Yoshi, but he also kills at a much lower percentage and can punish MK's attacks on his shield via fortress. It's still a disadvantage for Bowser though, but he does way better than Peach.

Bowser does way better then a lot of characters against Meta. One of the perks of using him is that the only matchups that really screw him up is Dedede, Diddy, and the ICs. If you have a secondary to deal with that (hint, Jiggs or Peach) you're set.

As for Yoshi; he has a better MK matchup than Peach but not by enough to warrant picking him up just for MK. He does poorly against G&W; about as bad as Peach; and gets demolished by Marth, as badly or worse than Peach.

I don't see him as a good Peach secondary as his matchups are too similar, but maybe some Yoshi main will come in here and convince me otherwise. No clue how he does vs Snake..

This.

Yoshi is pretty bad all things considered. He's not trash, but he's not good. He wouldn't really help you in your disadvantageous matchups.

 

[deepseadiva]

We should prolly get the Yoshi's in on this discussion since they're here. Even though it's gettin old.

 

[Meru.]

You can't place consistently with Bowser. I know I said this already, I don't get the RIGHT purpose of this thread, because if you need a secondary to win just pick any SS/S or A tier. Picking an E tier wouldn't help at all I guess this serves as a "explore all your possibilities" kind of discussion, but in the end you're probably gonna end up choosing a top/high tier (competitively/tourney-wise speaking).


I like G&W as a second, too bad its matchup against MK is meh.

Zero Suit Samus is D tier and is a 4.5/5 secondary for Peach xd. Altough you still have made a good point.

 

[Morrigan]

Zero Suit Samus is D tier and is a 4.5/5 secondary for Peach xd. Altough you still have made a good point.

What's more accurate? This list or the tier list?

 

[Veelhelm]

MK: All in all a good Yoshi Vs. a good MK, both knowing the match up the MK has an advantage: Yoshi is in no way a hard or even a soft counter to MK. With that being said Yoshi can compete with MK and I've read some decent defenses that would place Yoshi just under even against MK (sadly no one good plays MK where I live so I have no meaningful first hand experience). If this is your determining factor for a sub choose then someone else (Snake) but it is a winnable match up and there is redeemable value in Yoshi's obscurity.

Snake: Yoshi fairs relatively the same if not worse against Snake whom he can gimp with spikes (Yoshi can actually use two double jumps from the ground to catch snake high) and hurt his spam game through eggs. I've played decent Snakes and I believe Yoshi could be even to a slight disadvantage here but my boards disagree. You could probably find someone better than Yoshi here but Yoshi is viable here.

G&W: You would be better of with Peach against G&W, Yoshi will offer you a different fight here but just as hard if not harder than your main.

Overall: Yoshi offers some help with these matches but from a comprehensive standpint is far from the best. If you were to sub Yoshi you would have to sub someone else as well to make up for G&W :embarrass. Yoshi could have some value as a sub if you personally enjoy playing him and are hoping to take advantage of people who do not know his match ups.

Yoshi is pretty bad all things considered. He's not trash, but he's not good. He wouldn't really help you in your disadvantageous match ups.

/rant

This is a thread to evaluate the potential of each character as sub. The people who are creating this, and who would take time to seriously read this understand the tier list. They also understand that the overall best choices would be near the top for direct ratios in covering Peach's bad match ups. That being said a lot of people are looking for viable subs to cover their weaknesses which are not conventional due to a difficulty in defeating people who main higher characters. These players could simply beat them through greater experience with such characters (it is very difficult to counter a MK main with your MK/Snake/D3 sub).

Then you have certain some people (such as ourselves) who ascertain joy from playing less used or weaker characters. These people might want to check the validity of such aesthetically valuable characters as subs on this very thread. This is where I come to my point, it is extremely unfair to tear down a character (who has relatively no one defend him) and push your character in his place. Saying Yoshi is overall pretty bad but above garbage is an unfair statement that shows your ignorance of Yoshi's game. What you essentially are doing is trying to make Bowser look better by attacking other characters. In reality cutting other characters down doesn't enhance the viability of your character at all. This makes you seem like a partisan opportunist that lurks around boards searching for a ways to enhance your character's persona while disregarding the general advancement of the threads you post in.

jk, just felt like ranting but really show Yoshi a little love.

 

[RAWRex]

Fought a Yoshi main from Cali at my first tournament last weekend.

Was really interesting, he had me considering Yoshi as a Secondary.

 

[Praxis]

What's more accurate? This list or the tier list?

Faulty argument. The tier list doesn't take into account PEACH'S bad matchups.

For example, G&W isn't a great Peach secondary, despite being very high tier, because his worst matchups- Marth, Snake, and MK- are shared with Peach.

Fought a Yoshi main from Cali at my first tournament last weekend.

Was really interesting, he had me considering Yoshi as a Secondary.

There was a Yoshi main from Cali at GameClucks? I don't think there was... >_<

Are we talking tournament or friendlies? Because I remember you played Dr. Robotnik.
I really hope you're not talking about him xD

 

[BurtonEarny]

I like yoshi, but to me it seems to pick up such an obscure character that takes such a long time to get to a competitive level with (and that only improves one problem matchup when peach is your main) as a secondary is conterproductive to what you want to be doing in picking a secondary... I mean yoshi may surprise alot of people and all, but that isn't always enough. Just my two cents

 

[Veelhelm]

I like yoshi, but to me it seems to pick up such an obscure character that takes such a long time to get to a competitive level with (and that only improves one problem matchup when peach is your main) as a secondary is conterproductive to what you want to be doing in picking a secondary... I mean yoshi may surprise alot of people and all, but that isn't always enough. Just my two cents

QFT Yoshi really isn't a good sub for peachie considering the matchups he covers ; ;.

 

[Morrigan]

Faulty argument.

Yeah, I get it now.